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> What about the day when some US order outlaws my country? List of the countries under consequential US sanctions attention and their systems of government:

> What about the day when some US order outlaws my country? List of the countries under consequential US sanctions attention and their systems of government: Russia: dictatorship. Cuba: dictatorship. Iran: theocratic dictatorship. Venezuela: dictatorship. North Korea: dictatorship. Syria: dictatorship. Sudan: recently a military junta. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions I too hope Australia is never like those countries. The countries that the US targets sanctions on, no coincidence, are always near the bottom of the Democracy Index (and typically very high on corruption rankings). Short list of liberal democracies that have zero fear of falling under comparable US sanctions today: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Britain, Ireland, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Iceland, Israel, Slovakia, Czechia, Slovenia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay and so on. The reason why so many powerful, influential, affluent, liberal nations cooperate with the US so frequently on sanctions - and have for much of the post WW2 era - is because they know they are under zero threat from the US sanctioning them and they also know the US has exclusively targeted sanctions at non-democratic, extremely high-corruption nations. It's really simple in fact, here's the Democracy Index. On average the higher countries rank, the less they ever need to be concerned about US sanctions being directed at them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index Some of the countries near the bottom of that democracy list: Iran, Syria, Sudan, North Korea, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
I wonder whether "dictatorship" is actual reason. I see your list: > Russia: dictatorship. Cuba: dictatorship. Iran: theocratic dictatorship. Venezuela: dictatorship. North Korea: dictatorship. Syria: dictatorship. Sudan: recently a military junta. I read it as: Russia: enemy ex-superpower, second biggest net oil exporter. Cuba: stole our oil refineries half a century ago, we're still mad about it. Iran: in top 10 of net oil exporters (also, tried to take them over and fucked up). Venezuela: top ten of net oil exporters. North Korea: old enemy, though also universally considered evil. Syria: US wants to force a government change and supports the rebels; there could be an indirect oil-related angle in here. It may be that I've just been reading too much about energy economics recently and am getting all consipracy-theorist. Even if so, I absolutely don't buy that there's any higher good for any of those sanctions.
- jariel 7y ago
  Though the OP is mostly correct. You're response is straining reality. Russia is technically a democracy, but given that Putin controls the press directly, murders opposition members, and thwarts opponents from running in elections, it's a de-facto dictatorship. Those are all terrible, terrible places frankly we shouldn't trade with them purely on a moral basis - but we would tolerate them if they played nice. FYI: Cuba did not 'steal oil' this is false. And nobody cares about Iran's Oil power, they care that Iran has a publicly stated objective literally of overthrowing the USA. And Syria has no oil, your points verge on conspiracy theory. The US would love to rid itself of any entanglement in Syria, and frankly Iran if it could.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > Those are all terrible, terrible places frankly we shouldn't trade with them purely on a moral basis - but we would tolerate them if they played nice. The Saudis are the same and they also didn't play nice. > FYI: Cuba did not 'steal oil' this is false. I wrote "oil refineries", and I must be misunderstanding Wikipedia then, when it says: "on October 19, 1960 (almost two years after the Cuban Revolution had led to the deposition of the Batista regime) the U.S. placed an embargo on exports to Cuba except for food and medicine after Cuba nationalized American-owned Cuban oil refineries without compensation and as a response to Cuba's role in the Cuban missile crisis. On February 7, 1962 the embargo was extended to include almost all exports.[1]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... > And nobody cares about Iran's Oil power, Doubtful, given the amount of oil they have and export. > they care that Iran has a publicly stated objective literally of overthrowing the USA. Which is entirely because of the "tried to take them over and fucked up" thing I mentioned. > And Syria has no oil, your points verge on conspiracy theory. Of course it has oil, it's even an exporter. But here I thought about the longer-term US involvement over the last decades. They didn't start messing with countries in the region because of terrorists or WMDs. (I don't claim to be an expert in geopolitics, I'm just saying how the "look at these sanctions, they're all against dictatorships!" claim upthread reads to me, with my mind currently primed on worldwide energy economy.)
mpoloton 7y ago
Yet, Saudi Arabia is an ally of US and purchases billion dollars of American weapons that kills civilians. You know very well that the sanctions has nothing to do with the democracy index. It is just another tool in the toolbox of the empire to force its hegemony throughout the world.
- jariel 7y ago
  The Saudis are defending their nation from direct attacks by violent forces just across the border, fully supported and instigated by Iran. Iran recently wiped out 50% of Saudi refining capacity (5% of world output), which is basically shocking. Now - Saudi Arabia is not keen on human rights in general, and does not play very nice with their weapons, but the clear reality is that they would be happy to stay put at home. The Saudi Government is not actively trying to destabilise the region or the world, they play nice with the West, and work closely with the US etc. to hunt down terrorists, and of course they have Oil which they sell freely on world markets, with no strategic dealings with others (i.e. China, Russia) - that's why they are an ally. So yes, democracy is obviously not the entire motivation for US sanctions, but it's part of the equation.
  - nootropicat 7y ago
    No, Saudi Arabia is invading Yemen because their puppet politician, Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi, lost power in a popular revolution. It's a clear-cut war of aggression - which the Saudis are losing. Among other things, they like to use child soldiers [2] and intentionally caused a famine [3], with over 85k starved children: >Saudi Arabia was reported to be deliberately targeting means of food production and distribution in Yemen[47] by bombing farms,[48][49] fishing boats,[50] ports,[51] food storages, food factories,[52][53] and other businesses[54] in order to exacerbate famine. These actions led to the UN accusing the Saudi-led coalition of committing war crimes and having a "complete disregard for human life" >On August 3, 2019, a United Nations report said the US, UK and France may be complicit in committing war crimes in Yemen by selling weapons and providing support to the Saudi-led coalition which is using the starvation of civilians as a tactic of warfare [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen [2] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/27/serious-questions-over-sas-involvement-in-yemen-war https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/27/serious-ques... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93...

TeMPOraL 7y ago

I wonder whether "dictatorship" is actual reason. I see your list: > Russia: dictatorship. Cuba: dictatorship. Iran: theocratic dictatorship. Venezuela: dictatorship. North Korea: dictatorship. Syria: dictatorship. Sudan: recently a military junta. I read it as: Russia: enemy ex-superpower, second biggest net oil exporter. Cuba: stole our oil refineries half a century ago, we're still mad about it. Iran: in top 10 of net oil exporters (also, tried to take them over and fucked up). Venezuela: top ten of net oil exporters. North Korea: old enemy, though also universally considered evil. Syria: US wants to force a government change and supports the rebels; there could be an indirect oil-related angle in here. It may be that I've just been reading too much about energy economics recently and am getting all consipracy-theorist. Even if so, I absolutely don't buy that there's any higher good for any of those sanctions.

jariel 7y ago
Though the OP is mostly correct. You're response is straining reality. Russia is technically a democracy, but given that Putin controls the press directly, murders opposition members, and thwarts opponents from running in elections, it's a de-facto dictatorship. Those are all terrible, terrible places frankly we shouldn't trade with them purely on a moral basis - but we would tolerate them if they played nice. FYI: Cuba did not 'steal oil' this is false. And nobody cares about Iran's Oil power, they care that Iran has a publicly stated objective literally of overthrowing the USA. And Syria has no oil, your points verge on conspiracy theory. The US would love to rid itself of any entanglement in Syria, and frankly Iran if it could.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > Those are all terrible, terrible places frankly we shouldn't trade with them purely on a moral basis - but we would tolerate them if they played nice. The Saudis are the same and they also didn't play nice. > FYI: Cuba did not 'steal oil' this is false. I wrote "oil refineries", and I must be misunderstanding Wikipedia then, when it says: "on October 19, 1960 (almost two years after the Cuban Revolution had led to the deposition of the Batista regime) the U.S. placed an embargo on exports to Cuba except for food and medicine after Cuba nationalized American-owned Cuban oil refineries without compensation and as a response to Cuba's role in the Cuban missile crisis. On February 7, 1962 the embargo was extended to include almost all exports.[1]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... > And nobody cares about Iran's Oil power, Doubtful, given the amount of oil they have and export. > they care that Iran has a publicly stated objective literally of overthrowing the USA. Which is entirely because of the "tried to take them over and fucked up" thing I mentioned. > And Syria has no oil, your points verge on conspiracy theory. Of course it has oil, it's even an exporter. But here I thought about the longer-term US involvement over the last decades. They didn't start messing with countries in the region because of terrorists or WMDs. (I don't claim to be an expert in geopolitics, I'm just saying how the "look at these sanctions, they're all against dictatorships!" claim upthread reads to me, with my mind currently primed on worldwide energy economy.)

mpoloton 7y ago

Yet, Saudi Arabia is an ally of US and purchases billion dollars of American weapons that kills civilians. You know very well that the sanctions has nothing to do with the democracy index. It is just another tool in the toolbox of the empire to force its hegemony throughout the world.

jariel 7y ago
The Saudis are defending their nation from direct attacks by violent forces just across the border, fully supported and instigated by Iran. Iran recently wiped out 50% of Saudi refining capacity (5% of world output), which is basically shocking. Now - Saudi Arabia is not keen on human rights in general, and does not play very nice with their weapons, but the clear reality is that they would be happy to stay put at home. The Saudi Government is not actively trying to destabilise the region or the world, they play nice with the West, and work closely with the US etc. to hunt down terrorists, and of course they have Oil which they sell freely on world markets, with no strategic dealings with others (i.e. China, Russia) - that's why they are an ally. So yes, democracy is obviously not the entire motivation for US sanctions, but it's part of the equation.
- nootropicat 7y ago
  No, Saudi Arabia is invading Yemen because their puppet politician, Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi, lost power in a popular revolution. It's a clear-cut war of aggression - which the Saudis are losing. Among other things, they like to use child soldiers [2] and intentionally caused a famine [3], with over 85k starved children: >Saudi Arabia was reported to be deliberately targeting means of food production and distribution in Yemen[47] by bombing farms,[48][49] fishing boats,[50] ports,[51] food storages, food factories,[52][53] and other businesses[54] in order to exacerbate famine. These actions led to the UN accusing the Saudi-led coalition of committing war crimes and having a "complete disregard for human life" >On August 3, 2019, a United Nations report said the US, UK and France may be complicit in committing war crimes in Yemen by selling weapons and providing support to the Saudi-led coalition which is using the starvation of civilians as a tactic of warfare [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen [2] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/27/serious-questions-over-sas-involvement-in-yemen-war https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/27/serious-ques... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93...