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> Take about crippling certain business in Venezuela. All this is going to do is encourage piracy (and potentially malware). Adobe doesn't really have a choice

> Take about crippling certain business in Venezuela. All this is going to do is encourage piracy (and potentially malware). Adobe doesn't really have a choice here. They're doing this to comply with sanctions, not because they have any dog in fighting Maduro. If Venezuelans pirate Photoshop, then Adobe can go and say "hey, these people are using it without our permission, which means we're still in compliance".

PhasmaFelis 7y ago
> Adobe doesn't really have a choice here. They're doing this to comply with sanctions, not because they have any dog in fighting Maduro. Adobe had a choice when they chose to stop selling software in favor of cloud services. This is a perfect illustration of why that choice was anti-consumer. It shouldn't be possible to revoke access to software functions that don't fundamentally require remote server support.
- spuz 7y ago
  What would you say Adobe should do differently in this situation? If nothing then I think the person you are replying is right when they say Adobe doesn't really have a choice here.
  - Sidnicious 7y ago
    It would be fascinating if Adobe quietly started selling license keys and offline-friendly software again. They couldn’t sell directly to Venezuela, but software, ah, finds a way.
  - djsumdog 7y ago
    Selling actual software licenses again that don't require connecting to a remote server to use? Like the had for over a decade. They could still do point release updates on-line, but the software itself should come with a license key that just works without needing to validate over the Internet. Even if they didn't want to do that, they could do the Jetbrains perpetual fall-back license model where if you hold a license for version x for a year, you get to keep version x. You still get version y when it comes out, but if you cancel before a certain time, it will fall back to your license for x forever, until you pay your subscription again.
    - spuz 7y ago
      Obviously there are many ways Adobe could have improved their licensing model from the start but the person I was replying implied that there were obvious alternative actions that they could take now. I agree with you but it still seems the case that there "isn't much they could do here".
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    That's my point. There are no good choices for them now. That doesn't mean they should be excused for the bad choices that led them to this point.
wolco 7y ago
They don't need to pirate. Adobe has been giving away photoshop 2 for awhile now.
ctdonath 7y ago
Adobe had a choice, and opted for the one where a single point of failure could cripple an entire nation of users. "Failure" in this case is legal, not technical (distinction without a difference to users).
- tapoxi 7y ago
  Users have a choice to not use Photoshop, yet it's still the standard. Creative Cloud really isn't an issue for most people, it takes exceptional circumstances for this type of DRM to become a hassle. I'm not remotely saying I agree with it, but its been transparent enough that their user base hasn't revolted and found something better, so this will be more and more common with software.
  - kennywinker 7y ago
    > Users have a choice to not use Photoshop I'm not sure about the rest of CC, but adobe has a near-monopoly with photoshop. I personally use Pixelmator for all my image editing needs, but I am not an image-editing pro... if I was Pixelmator would NOT cut it... my only real choice would be photoshop. > their user base hasn't revolted and found something better, If no viable alternatives exist, the choice is not do it or pay whatever they ask. Which is why many cc users feel like hostages.
    - cwyers 7y ago
      I am not saying that the Affinity suite of apps is at full feature parity with Adobe, but they are certainly targeting the pro market with their offerings.
      - H1Supreme 7y ago
        I worked in design for almost 15 years before getting into software development. I have a few former colleagues who moved over to Affinity. It's got really good reviews so far. When my copy of CS3 stops activating (probably next pc upgrade), I'll probably buy a copy. On a personal note, I really wish they would have done a Linux release.
cptaj 7y ago
Their interpretation of the sanctions is wrong. Individual creators cannot be presumed to be in business with the government. The sanctions only concern people doing business with the government. Adobe's lawyers are idiots and just screwed over a bunch of people. Don't buy cloud shit.
droithomme 7y ago
> Adobe doesn't really have a choice here. The problem is this seriously undermines their business model in most of the world which the US may in the short term decide to levy sanctions against as part of its bullying process. Venezuela and Syria have never harmed the US or threatened us in any way whatsoever, yet find themselves on our "shit list". Turkey may soon be there as well, and they are a member of the EU. Who knows which EU nation may be next. If you buy US software it's not yours and we can take it from you at any moment. Who wants that sort of software upon which their data depends? Not a single person in the world with the least bit of sense. Adobe should fight this as it undermines their business model. That they are cowards who choose not to means they get what they deserve.
- netsharc 7y ago
  Uh, Turkey is not a member of the EU..
  - anticensor 7y ago
    Turkey is halfway in EU accession process and adopts EU norms as time progresses.
dang 7y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21185298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21185298.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

> Adobe doesn't really have a choice here. They're doing this to comply with sanctions, not because they have any dog in fighting Maduro. Adobe had a choice when they chose to stop selling software in favor of cloud services. This is a perfect illustration of why that choice was anti-consumer. It shouldn't be possible to revoke access to software functions that don't fundamentally require remote server support.

spuz 7y ago
What would you say Adobe should do differently in this situation? If nothing then I think the person you are replying is right when they say Adobe doesn't really have a choice here.
- Sidnicious 7y ago
  It would be fascinating if Adobe quietly started selling license keys and offline-friendly software again. They couldn’t sell directly to Venezuela, but software, ah, finds a way.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  Selling actual software licenses again that don't require connecting to a remote server to use? Like the had for over a decade. They could still do point release updates on-line, but the software itself should come with a license key that just works without needing to validate over the Internet. Even if they didn't want to do that, they could do the Jetbrains perpetual fall-back license model where if you hold a license for version x for a year, you get to keep version x. You still get version y when it comes out, but if you cancel before a certain time, it will fall back to your license for x forever, until you pay your subscription again.
  - spuz 7y ago
    Obviously there are many ways Adobe could have improved their licensing model from the start but the person I was replying implied that there were obvious alternative actions that they could take now. I agree with you but it still seems the case that there "isn't much they could do here".
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  That's my point. There are no good choices for them now. That doesn't mean they should be excused for the bad choices that led them to this point.

wolco 7y ago

They don't need to pirate. Adobe has been giving away photoshop 2 for awhile now.

ctdonath 7y ago

Adobe had a choice, and opted for the one where a single point of failure could cripple an entire nation of users. "Failure" in this case is legal, not technical (distinction without a difference to users).

tapoxi 7y ago
Users have a choice to not use Photoshop, yet it's still the standard. Creative Cloud really isn't an issue for most people, it takes exceptional circumstances for this type of DRM to become a hassle. I'm not remotely saying I agree with it, but its been transparent enough that their user base hasn't revolted and found something better, so this will be more and more common with software.
- kennywinker 7y ago
  > Users have a choice to not use Photoshop I'm not sure about the rest of CC, but adobe has a near-monopoly with photoshop. I personally use Pixelmator for all my image editing needs, but I am not an image-editing pro... if I was Pixelmator would NOT cut it... my only real choice would be photoshop. > their user base hasn't revolted and found something better, If no viable alternatives exist, the choice is not do it or pay whatever they ask. Which is why many cc users feel like hostages.
  - cwyers 7y ago
    I am not saying that the Affinity suite of apps is at full feature parity with Adobe, but they are certainly targeting the pro market with their offerings.
    - H1Supreme 7y ago
      I worked in design for almost 15 years before getting into software development. I have a few former colleagues who moved over to Affinity. It's got really good reviews so far. When my copy of CS3 stops activating (probably next pc upgrade), I'll probably buy a copy. On a personal note, I really wish they would have done a Linux release.

cptaj 7y ago

Their interpretation of the sanctions is wrong. Individual creators cannot be presumed to be in business with the government. The sanctions only concern people doing business with the government. Adobe's lawyers are idiots and just screwed over a bunch of people. Don't buy cloud shit.

droithomme 7y ago

> Adobe doesn't really have a choice here. The problem is this seriously undermines their business model in most of the world which the US may in the short term decide to levy sanctions against as part of its bullying process. Venezuela and Syria have never harmed the US or threatened us in any way whatsoever, yet find themselves on our "shit list". Turkey may soon be there as well, and they are a member of the EU. Who knows which EU nation may be next. If you buy US software it's not yours and we can take it from you at any moment. Who wants that sort of software upon which their data depends? Not a single person in the world with the least bit of sense. Adobe should fight this as it undermines their business model. That they are cowards who choose not to means they get what they deserve.

netsharc 7y ago
Uh, Turkey is not a member of the EU..
- anticensor 7y ago
  Turkey is halfway in EU accession process and adopts EU norms as time progresses.

dang 7y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21185298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21185298.