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Tesla Model 3 = 24% of Small and Midsize Luxury Car Sales in USA

199 points by Osiris30 7y ago

SEJeff 7y ago
I'd never in my life have thought I'd have bought a car > $50,000 and here I am with a AWD LR Model 3 and loving it! My other car was a 2011 Ford Fiesta. If you don't want to purchase one, don't do a test drive. Once my wife and I did a test drive in a Model S, we were both sold on a Tesla.
- bryanthankins 7y ago
  Exactly the same for me. Had never spent more than 22K on a car in 20 years of driving. The model 3 changed all that and just feels like the car of the future. So much fun to drive. Like the first time using an iphone.
  - FPGAhacker 7y ago
    I totally get this. I have a new phone after about five years and it is such a pleasure to use. Really enjoying it. Felt like an outrageous amount of money, but it truly is pleasant using it. If I had the money, and needed a car, I would give it serious consideration. Alas, I only buy used cars and The most I’ve spent is 17k. I’ll pony up more cash next time just to be sure I have some of the driver aids/safety features that might help me from rear ending someone because I glanced at the gas gauge in stop and go traffic.
    - x3haloed 7y ago
      Just wait a couple of years for the used market to really open up, and pick up a standard range +
- helpPeople 7y ago
  I'm shocked you love a 50,000 dollar car when your last car was 8 years old budget car. Reminds me of comparing this year's iPhone to a no name Android. Op, did you realize you did this?
  - awill 7y ago
    Exactly. As an Android user, I always used to laugh when (10 years ago) people would upgrade to an iPhone from a flip phone and say "the best phone I've ever had". Ridiculous :).
  - SEJeff 7y ago
    Well of course the Model 3 is amazing, but my point was I would NOT spend this kind of money on a BMW or a Mercedes or any other existing luxury car. I am not a luxury car owner and never planned on being. I saw the idea of what Tesla is going for and want to see the future Musk and his cult of personality are trying to build. Self driving cars sound cool, but they lead to all kinds of interesting societal changes. My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. Self driving cars means less drunk drivers. My father had a seizure while he was driving and almost died in the resultant wreck. I'm not saying he (Musk) will necessarily meet all of his goals, but if he hits even 1/2 of them, it is the future I want to live in. I purchased the Tesla to help him make it so. I jokingly have been comparing the Model 3 to an A10 Warthog. The A10 Warthog (famously) is literally a plane built around a really big gun. The gun is the primary focus of A10 designers and it shows. When it comes to a Tesla, it is a computer with amazing batteries that happens to live in a car. It isn't like any existing car on the market, because primarily, it is a computer. This is really exciting, and very different.
    - hartator 7y ago
      > it is a computer with amazing batteries that happens to live in a car hum pretty sure the value of your Tesla will drop to zero if it can’t drive anymore. What are you talking about?
      - ncallaway 7y ago
        I don't see how this comment ties to the parent comment in any way? What part of their comment are you referring to?
        hartator 7y ago
- peapicker 7y ago
  To be honest, the Tesla interior leaves me cold. It feels corporate, like being in a nice chair driving a 17" laptop to work. Feels soulless to me. I really hate touch screens and have opted personally for a similarly expensive car with lots of switches and dials that I don't have to look at to make sure I'm on the right one. (Mini Clubman, with basically every option, literally months before they added a touchscreen entertainment system)
  - jdhn 7y ago
    While I agree with you about the interior looking rather spartan and the superiority of physical dials and knobs, one nice thing about the Tesla touchscreen is that things are laid out in a somewhat intuitive feature. I had the experience of sitting in a few other cars at the pricepoint (BMW 3 series, and a Mercedes C class), and the infotainment systems in there were way behind. Mercedes uses a touchpad along with a touchscreen for navigation, while the BMW uses a dial along with the touchscreen. I much preferred the Tesla touchscreen only to their weird physical/virtual button hybrid systems.
    - peapicker 7y ago
      I can't disagree, most of the other touchscreen UIs in cars are worse. I fear I'm going to start sounding like the cranky old man when it's time for the next car after this one whining for a more tactile UI. :)
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - usaphp 7y ago
      > while the BMW uses a dial along with the touchscreen I have a Bmw with both, and I never use a touchscreen, using the idrive joystick is so much easier than reaching for a touchscreen
      - peapicker 7y ago
- Tepix 7y ago
  I don't drive a lot and aim to drive even less, I guess i shouldn't take a test drive...
- tmh88j 7y ago
  >I'd never in my life have thought I'd have bought a car > $50,000 and here I am with a AWD LR Model 3 and loving it! My other car was a 2011 Ford Fiesta. If you don't want to purchase one, don't do a test drive What about the Model 3 swayed your opinion enough to spend 2-3x more on a car than you previously had? I love that Tesla has finally brought "cool" electric cars to the market that don't look like they were purposefully designed be a science experiment (Honda Insight, older Priuses, etc...). However, as a long time auto enthusiast I can't help but wonder how many people who share your sentiment of "once you drive it you'll need it" would end up in a different car if they had also test driven other similarly priced performance cars like the M3/M4, RS3 and C63 AMG. I find it interesting that a tech company has been able to convince people to spend significantly more on a car than they ever would have, and the only two reasons I can come up with are the convenience of charging at home and the big screen. I'm not suggesting Tesla makes sub-par products by any means, only that exciting cars packed with features have been around forever. Many driver's assists like auto pilot and self-parking that people rave about have been offered by Mercedes and BMW for longer than Tesla has even existed, so I don't think that's it, but of course people could be unaware of those features. I'm excited to see what other boundaries Tesla pushes, because every other manufacturer has no option but to play keep up now.
  - SEJeff 7y ago
    I answered this a bit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181145 and: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181755 TL;DNR: I buy in to self driving vehicles being good for humanity as well as electric vehicles being good for humanity. I purchased a Tesla to help make the future Elon opines about into closer to reality (even after the Elon distortion field is removed).
    - tmh88j 7y ago
      Interesting. From what I've read is it fair to say that you're not primarily concerned with the driving experience, but rather the convenience a Tesla provides and supporting them as a brand? I hope I'm not at all coming off as judgemental, I'm genuinely curious about what draws people to the cars they own. I'm a huge auto enthusiast and I too couldn't care less about luxury. The driving experience is about 90% of my consideration when I'm shopping for cars, so I find it interesting to see what factors other people consider. I ended up with a GT-R, which I'm sure a lot of people think I'm absolutely insane for being willing to shell out that much for a Nissan. I can't wait to see the Tesla Roadster in action, it's really going to shake up the world of drag racing.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
For those who are thinking "the Model 3 isn't a luxury car", the model 3 is selling at about half the rate of the Camry or Civic. http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/ http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/ Pretty impressive, IMO.
- lostmsu 7y ago
  Should check long-term.
- messick 7y ago
  Your link shows that more Civics were sold by the third week of February than even the biased estimate in this post says Tesla is going to sell all year. For Camry the comparison is even worse.
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    My link gives monthly figures, not weekly figures.
coding123 7y ago
In my recent trip down the i5 corridor the M3 was the most common vehicle after the Camry.
- neogodless 7y ago
  I'm surprised you're seeing that many performance trim level BMWs.
  - sillypuddy 7y ago
    M3 in this context means Tesla Model 3
    - dhritzkiv 7y ago
      This always trips me up, no matter that I'm reading the comments section about a Tesla-related article, or am on the Tesla subreddit.
    - cowmix 7y ago
      TM3 is the correct abbreviation.
      - coding123 7y ago
        Thanks I'll use that in the future!
closeparen 7y ago
What's with the huge dropoff between Q4 2018 and Q1 2019?
- mohaine 7y ago
  If you bought in Q1 2019 the federal income tax rebate for buying a Tesla went from $7500 -> $3750. It halffed again in Q2->Q3 and will be $0 after Q4.
- gibolt 7y ago
  Q4 was the last month for $7500 incentive in the US, so they opened up to new markets. Thousands of cars were on ships headed to other countries which aren't counted as 'delivered' until over a month later. Q1 is also consistently the weakest quarter for the overall car market.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    It's remarkable that Tesla is making delivery records even though they've lost over $5000 of incentive per car in the US. For a lot of vehicles, that's the entire profit margin. And they're doing that on top of historically low gas prices and without a mid-level SUV or truck. Tesla is proving more robust than the common narrative.
    - gibolt 7y ago
      The worst part for Tesla is that the US federal tax rebate can still be used by the competition that is starting to arrive. Tesla fought such an uphill battle to make electric vehicles mainstream, but now can be undercut by $7500 by the incumbents entering late in the game. This is a double-edged sword, since competition is good. Competitors also are unable to make the same profit margin as Tesla for now.
      - Robotbeat 7y ago
        Right, they're fighting that competition right now (eTron has been available for months in the US and its sales are declining) but are still crushing it. In fact, it's disappointing that few have really risen to Tesla's challenge. Taycan does (I'm impressed by the higher voltage of the battery), but at much greater cost and still doesn't quite meet the highest Tesla trim performance. The EV credit system is unfair for domestic EV makers who have taken EVs seriously (GM and Tesla) and advantages foreign EV makers like VW group companies (who count as separate companies according to the tax credit but can use the same platform for their EVs).
losvedir 7y ago
I have trouble squaring this ostensibly fantastic news with the constant dire predictions about the stock. Is it just the stock is considered by some people to be simply overpriced, or is Tesla the company in danger of going bankrupt? I'd like to get a Tesla, but I worry about the company going under and being left with a car that has no resale value or ability to be maintained.
- solean 7y ago
  I wouldn't worry at all about not being able to maintain it. Worst case scenario: they get acquired and VW/Apple/etc will service your car. The brand is too valuable to die at this point.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Just because the brand lives on doesn't mean the old tooling that makes the replacement parts didn't get sold to someone who will turn it into ball bearings during the liquidation and reorganization. That said, considering how good Tesla isn't at supplying parts to their own shops (let alone the aftermarket) having Dorman (or whoever, but this would be a very Dorman thing to do) acquire all the body dies at some post-bankruptcy liquidation sale and start cranking them out from a factory in China could very well wind up being better for parts availability than the current situation.
  - owenmarshall 7y ago
    You have a very optimistic definition of “worst case scenario”. If Tesla is acquired I would imagine it would be for IP; I could easily see the brand going away with the billions of debt.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  I have no idea about Tesla's long term prospects, but the maintenance question reminded me of this story about keeping their original Roadsters running: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a28819221/tesla-roadster-repair-carl-medlock/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a28819221/tesla-roadst... >There are unique challenges that come with working on these cars. You might have to rebuild a circuit board one day, and fabricate a new hood the next day. Actually, if any body parts are damaged, you'll have to fabricate them. Tesla doesn't sell parts to anyone, so Medlock has taken to fashioning new panels out of carbon fiber himself.
totaldude87 7y ago
I think there is a dilemma at Tesla whether to go with a mid range ($20-25k car) with limited miles(limited performance,etc etc, you get it...)vs going for the mid luxury to full on luxury ranged cars. Also 2020-21 would be the years where mass market car companies like Honda / Toyota might release their cars and my guess it would start with ~$25k range
- judge2020 7y ago
  In an interview, Elon said: > let's say ultimately getting like a twenty five thousand dollar car [...] if we work really hard we maybe could do that in three years [with time and scale] https://youtu.be/MevKTPN4ozw?t=280 https://youtu.be/MevKTPN4ozw?t=280
  - hnburnsy 7y ago
    Is a base Tesla really too expensive, I mean the new Jeep Gladiator can top out at 55,000?
- electriclove 7y ago
  "Also 2020-21 would be the years.." It is common to think that a legacy automaker will just start producing EVs in large volumes.. but no one has yet and we've all waited far too long hoping that will. They've made announcements and grand proclamations for well over a decade but haven't produced anything in volume. Meanwhile there has been no end to the shade thrown at EVs.. not enough range, looks ugly, poor handling, causes fires, isn't built by a union worker (even though it is car made in the U.S.A. in 2019!!), waiting for hydrogen/fuel cells, etc. If someone else can produce some great EVs, I will wholeheartedly cheer for them as well! Until then, please join in supporting what Tesla is doing and has achieved.
zarro 7y ago
They are wonderful cars and I have never heard anyone not loving the driving experience. The only concern that I think is preventing growth (Other than production of course) - is the concern about long term reliability. If you buy a camry or prius you know almost for a fact, that your going to drive 200k miles without a problem, and if there is one, its recognized as an engineering failure and the dealership fixes it for free - and fast. But with Tesla, there are lots of rumors that the queue for getting stuff fixed it really long, and that after warranty expires, really expensive. What I am really scared of is another "BMW" style reliability experience, which I would consider to be a catastrophic failure on the part of Tesla. Edit - also accidents "caused" by "autopilot" software, and liability is still a big question.
- manigandham 7y ago
  Why would it be catastrophic? That kind of reliability works just fine for other luxury brands. Tesla's should naturally be better anyway due to the simpler drivetrain and lack of maintenance.
  - zarro 7y ago
    I think that is a lazy business model, selling cars at a very low margin just so that you could make money by planned obsolescence and high cost replacement parts. I would rather buy a car for more money that's engineered to the best possible attainable engineering perfection than one that is not. Often, those more reliable cars are even cheaper and made in massive production. Given Teslas goal of accelerating the change to sustainable energy, it would be in their best interest to make the best possible and reliable car they could at the highest possible production numbers, instead of leaving a competitive advantage for toyota to take over reliable scalable production. Besides I would argue the purpose of the model 3 is a mass market vehicle that is really nice, and not just a niche "luxury" vehicle as is often implied.
    - jankyxenon 7y ago
      I don't think BMW's business model is lazy. You'll come up against design decisions again and again where the trade-off is performance vs. reliability. Toyota would more often choose the latter, BMW the former.
x3haloed 7y ago
This is really important to me, because it's showing up all of the other automakers dragging their feet on making electric cars - giving this excuse and that excuse why it doesn't make sense or it can't be done. It's forcing them to acknowledge that electric is the future, and they're going to have to go electric to stay relevant. I think it's safe to say at this point that Musk has done his job, regardless of the future of Tesla.
- usaphp 7y ago
  Most of the people I know who got Tesla instead of similarly priced Audi/Bmw/Mercedes did that for “auto pilot” and being electric for some of them was actually a downside.
  - goshx 7y ago
    It is hard to believe when the fact it is electric makes it cheaper to charge, more convenient, and provides quicker acceleration. Not to mention the environmental reasons.
- electriclove 7y ago
  I agree with the sentiment but think his job will be done once the legacy automakers have actually switched (not simply made announcements - although those are encouraging signs). He still needs to continue to grow production. This year will be about 360k in sales. Tesla is on the radar and they need to keep the pressure on.
roland35 7y ago
Great job for Tesla! I was interested in an EV but ended up with a Volt myself - the expiring GM $7,500 plus huge discounts GM was having after announcing after shutting down Volt production let me get a $40k car for under $24k. If I had to pay full MSRP I would have preferred a Tesla (or Bolt) and go full EV rather than PHEV! I do see more and more Telsas on the road, more than Priuses, Leafs, or any other EV/hybrid.
- sremani 7y ago
  Good choice - Chevy Volt is one of the most under-rated cars ever!
nanijoe 7y ago
I have a Chevy Bolt and a Model 3 in my household. Of course I much prefer to drive the Model 3, but the Chevy bolt is also all electric , goes about 240 miles on a single charge and costs about $20k less than the Model 3. Why more people don't get a Chevy Bolt, is a mystery to me.
- fred_is_fred 7y ago
  "Chevy"
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    "Chevy" That iconic American brand that's been in business for over a century, producing money for shareholders, jobs for 10s of thousands and tax dollars to benefit every American.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      I think he was thinking more along the lines of "won't have the instant approval of the internet like brands that start with T, end with A and have 5 or 6 letters will"
    - wffurr 7y ago
      Wouldn't buy a Chevy in a million years. Their reputation is for making cheap hunks of unreliable junk. Maybe that's changed and their new cars suck less, but the brand will forever have a stigma in my mind. Plenty of other useless or actively harmful products also match that description. Philip Morris death sticks. Kellogg's sugar cereals. NFL concussion factory. The point of the GP's comment is to answer the question of "why don't more people buy a Chevy Bolt". Because for a lot of people the Chevy brand is a negative, not a positive.
- dmode 7y ago
  I got a second Tesla instead of a Chevy Bolt because 1) Superchargers 2) Autopilot 3)Huge screen 4) continuous software updates 5) larger trunk and frunk space 6) more efficient battery 7) long range option 8) no dealership model
blobbers 7y ago
Why do all the real manufacturers have very precise numbers yet Tesla has an estimated number?
- kenperkins 7y ago
  Article clearly explains that Tesla does not break out region sales, just world wide quarterly sales, so this number is an informed estimate.
- messick 7y ago
  When the news is good, you shout it from the rooftops. When the news is bad, well, you do what is legally required by the SEC.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  Other manufacturers sell through dealers, Tesla doesn't.
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    In other words, for other manufacturers there are several places in the supply chain to get the numbers from. For Tesla, the only place to get numbers is from Tesla itself.
every1isbias 7y ago
Tesla could (and for some, arguably does) make the best vehicles in the world but if they can't figure out how to make them for a profit eventually and inevitably Tesla will go broke. Also something I didn't know until reading the article below is that Telsa doesn't even have IP on their batteries, they're Panasonic batteries! https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2019/05/29/who-would-buy-tesla-and-why/#69ecc79f3451 https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2019/05/29/who-wo... https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/01/22/wasnt-tesla-supposed-to-make-more-money-as-the-model-3-ramped/#7e928494c737 https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/01/22/wasnt-tes...
- DeonPenny 7y ago
  They own the chemistry for the batteries. Panasonic just packages them. Also they make money on every car not including free money from the software they sell for 10k. They just spend more than what they make from their cars on factories and self-driving research.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  Tesla's gross margin is 15% GAAP. They have an overall loss is because of R&D and capital expenditures etc. They could pull an Amazon and start posting profits at any time. That would be stupid, but they could.
NDizzle 7y ago
It’s a luxury car? I haven’t ever considered the 3 as a luxury car. The 5, sure, but not the 3.
- moufestaphio 7y ago
  The price puts it well within in the luxury car range.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    Build quality... not so much.
  - NDizzle 7y ago
    Shouldn't it be the other way around? It's expensive but super shitty compared to actual luxury cars. When Hyundai trumps your build quality you have serious issues.
- electriclove 7y ago
  "Luxury" is really more an indicator of pricing ranges. The model 3 slots in quite nicely as a competitor to the MB C-Class, BMW 3 and 4 series, Audi A3/A4, etc. Higher trim Accords and Camrys are also in competition here. "Luxury" might mean comfortable ride and steering and leather and wood to some folks. But increasingly many don't care too much about that and care more about the technology advancements (large screen, security cams, software updates, auto pilot, etc).
elbelcho 7y ago
Note that all the Tesla sales numbers in the article are estimates by the author of the article. There are no sources cited in the article. Other articles on this site from this same author are very clearly biased in favor of Tesla and electric cards in general. I would take this article with a grain of salt to say the least. FTA: "Tesla reports quarterly sales and does not break them out by country or region. Eventually, we get registration data from Europe, China (educated estimates at least), and Canada and can then make a more solid estimate of US sales for the quarter, as well as monthly sales estimates. However, it’s a bit early for all of that since we don’t have September numbers from most countries yet. Even our data-loving friend and contributor Jose Pontes of EV Volumes didn’t want to venture out too far on a limb and provide an early estimate that he might have to walk back. That said, looking at previous months’ data, September figures from the Netherlands and Norway, and deeper historical data, I feel comfortable estimating Model 3 sales between 40,000 and 50,000 in the US in the third quarter. For this report, I’ve settled on 43,000."
- MrFoof 7y ago
  For those truly wanting to do the due diligence, GoodCarBadCar does maintain a ton of sales data -- even down to by model, by month -- for the US and Canada http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model/#vwspc-section-5 http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-mod...
  - travisporter 7y ago
    That is depressing... top three by a wide margin are pick up trucks.
- briatx 7y ago
  Hard to read this as anything other than a sales pitch: > While a 24% market share — 1 out of every 4 sales in this market — seems wild, the thing that blows the minds of many Tesla Model 3 owners is that anyone is still buying an Audi A4, Volvo S60, BMW 320i, Mercedes C300, etc.
- metaphor 7y ago
InTheArena 7y ago
I still think it's only a matter of time before Apple takes another bite at Tesla. They want into the space, and are just too far back on the technology curve. They could engage someone to build the car for them, ala what they did for Foxconn, but they are not going to deliver better technology then what Tesla already has. There is a insane amount of overlap between Tesla owners and Apple's most lucrative customers, and Tesla's owner satisfaction is through the roof. It would be pricey, but I can see Apple making a huge bet there.
gnicholas 7y ago
I'm curious to know how people who bought Teslas thought about these pros and cons: • lower maintenance costs than ICE vehicles • higher insurance costs than ICE vehicles • possibility of long delays for repairs (moreso than other EVs) • possibility of company going out of business, and impact on software maintenance, software updates, and parts availability (also moreso than other EVs)
- scarlac 7y ago
  Long Range Dual Motor Model 3 owner here. > lower maintenance costs than ICE vehicles I researched it prior and it seems people pay very little for maintenance. I've personally logged 13k mi in 10 months and literally had no maintenance expenses. > higher insurance costs than ICE vehicles There are so many variables to insurance pricing. Not to mention that you can bargain. I honestly have a hard time comparing. My rate is around 600 per 6 months. > possibility of long delays for repairs (moreso than other EVs) I've heard about wait times for particular parts. I haven't had an issue myself. I can't compare to other EVs, since I haven't owned others. > possibility of company going out of business, and impact on software maintenance, software updates, and parts availability (also moreso than other EVs) This seems extremely unlikely at this point. Should it happen, the car will still charge and drive just fine.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    Glad to hear about the insurance. I was surprised how much mine went up when we got an inexpensive, used plug-in hybrid (Ford C-MAX). Apparently the repair cost estimates are higher since any damage to the electrical system is very costly to repair (and likely means the vehicle gets written off as totaled). My question about long delays for repairs was regarding collision repairs, about which I've heard horror stories of months-long delays. I've never heard anything like that for vehicles made by big manufacturers. Regarding Tesla going out of business, I wonder if they're more likely to get a bail-out if needed, since so many powerful/wealthy people drive their vehicles. Nonetheless, I worry about having a car that is so dependent upon software, and which currently can't really be maintained by anyone other than Tesla. Presumably Tesla would open up their maintenance protocols so other people could keep the cars on the road, and a cottage industry would pop up to maintain the vehicles.
Wheaties466 7y ago
I don't see this mentioned anywhere. But the Tesla model 3 has the highest saftey rating of any car. disclaimer I am pro tesla. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-sedan/2019 https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-se...
- rumblefrog 7y ago
  Makes sense since electric cars has no engine, leaving more room for the crumble zone. On top of the center of gravity with the battery pack.
- electriclove 7y ago
  Fantastic technology, great driving experience, lowest cost of ownership, safest cars on the road.. the masses will catch on.. Yes, I own TSLA and multiple Teslas.
- metaphor 7y ago
  > But the Tesla model 3 has the highest saftey rating of any car. Confirmation bias. The overall rating is also held by BMW 3 Series, Lexus ES 350, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class (which all rated better in child seat anchors ease of use)...and that's just in the midsize luxury cars category[1]. [1] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/class-summary/midsize-luxury-cars https://www.iihs.org/ratings/class-summary/midsize-luxury-ca...
  - goshx 7y ago
    Compare their crash test videos. The difference is evident.
    - metaphor 7y ago
      I did but nothing really jumped out as evident. However, the post-mortem analysis was indeed revealing. TL;DR the Model 3 didn't perform as well with respect to driver-side door hinge pillar intrusion and door sill buckling, contributing to "moderate risk of injury to the left lower leg". General remarks for Mercedes-Benz C-Class[1] and Lexus ES 350[2]: > The dummy's position in relation to the door frame, steering wheel, and instrument panel after the crash test indicates that the driver's survival space was maintained well. > The driver's space was maintained well in both tests, and risk of injuries to the dummy's legs and feet was low. ...as opposed to Tesla Model 3[3]: > The dummy's position in relation to the door frame, steering wheel, and instrument panel after the crash test indicates that the driver's overall survival space was maintained well, despite moderate intrusion of the lower part of the door hinge pillar and buckling of the door sill. > Although intrusion overall into the driver's space was minimal, door hinge pillar intrusion contributed to a moderate risk of injury to the left lower leg. [1] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4-door-sedan/2019#small-overlap-front-driver-side https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4... [2] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/lexus/es-350-4-door-sedan/2019#small-overlap-front-driver-side https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/lexus/es-350-4-door-sed... [3] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4-door-sedan/2019#small-overlap-front-driver-side https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4...
olyjohn 7y ago
Duh. Even if the numbers in the article were accurate, nobody besides Tesla buyers are purchasing cars. Everybody else is buying Crossovers and SUVs. Ford and Chevrolet don't even have mid size cars anymore.
- goshx 7y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if the reason for that isn't because there wasn't an option like what Tesla provides now. Anyways, Tesla is also heading that direction with the Model Y (2020) and the truck they are expected to announce in November.
tyfon 7y ago
I have to say if anyone are in doubt about getting one, for me personally the experience of driving the car trumps all other issues I've had with Tesla. I used to be a A to B car person, now I drive for fun all the time. I make up excuses just to drive. Tesla is a startup company and can be a bit difficult to deal with but I will repeat what John Carmac said about his Tesla [1], "It's my happiness machine". [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua-ikbZVofc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua-ikbZVofc [VIDEO]
Animats 7y ago
Cadillac sold about 154,000 cars last year, but they're not listed. The Tesla Model 3 is heavier than the Cadillac CT5 and CTS. All are 5 seats. The Cadillac CTS has a 1.5" longer wheelbase than the Tesla Model 3. The definition of "small and midsize" seems to have been carefully chosen here.
new_realist 7y ago
The sedan market is small and shrinking: there is a reason Ford has abandoned it. Tesla should be viewed in relation to the entire passenger vehicle market. According to http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model/#vwspc-section-5 http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-mod... ... The Model 3 ranks 50th or so.
agumonkey 7y ago
Lots of reassuring news about Tesla recently. Odd. And reassuring. Which is odd.
not_a_cop75 7y ago
The only reason I'm not interested in the Tesla is the overall unavailability of replacement parts.
- spectrum1234 7y ago
  Is this a major concern? How often are people in accidents on average? I supposed one day this could happen to me. Or hopefully I wouldn't get unlucky and have a normal experience in this case. Regardless, I just haven't needed much body work over the last 15 years at all. I assume this issue is improving too.
  - not_a_cop75 7y ago
    I had two minor accidents in 12 months, so yes, it's a major concern. If I were in a Tesla, it would still be drivable today, but something about having a car that is too expensive or hard to fix is not something I like or need. The discovery I have made is that timing commutes away from rush hour does more to prevent accidents than anything else.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

199 points by Osiris30 7y ago

I'd never in my life have thought I'd have bought a car > $50,000 and here I am with a AWD LR Model 3 and loving it! My other car was a 2011 Ford Fiesta. If you don't want to purchase one, don't do a test drive. Once my wife and I did a test drive in a Model S, we were both sold on a Tesla.

bryanthankins 7y ago
Exactly the same for me. Had never spent more than 22K on a car in 20 years of driving. The model 3 changed all that and just feels like the car of the future. So much fun to drive. Like the first time using an iphone.
- FPGAhacker 7y ago
  I totally get this. I have a new phone after about five years and it is such a pleasure to use. Really enjoying it. Felt like an outrageous amount of money, but it truly is pleasant using it. If I had the money, and needed a car, I would give it serious consideration. Alas, I only buy used cars and The most I’ve spent is 17k. I’ll pony up more cash next time just to be sure I have some of the driver aids/safety features that might help me from rear ending someone because I glanced at the gas gauge in stop and go traffic.
  - x3haloed 7y ago
    Just wait a couple of years for the used market to really open up, and pick up a standard range +
helpPeople 7y ago
I'm shocked you love a 50,000 dollar car when your last car was 8 years old budget car. Reminds me of comparing this year's iPhone to a no name Android. Op, did you realize you did this?
- awill 7y ago
  Exactly. As an Android user, I always used to laugh when (10 years ago) people would upgrade to an iPhone from a flip phone and say "the best phone I've ever had". Ridiculous :).
- SEJeff 7y ago
  Well of course the Model 3 is amazing, but my point was I would NOT spend this kind of money on a BMW or a Mercedes or any other existing luxury car. I am not a luxury car owner and never planned on being. I saw the idea of what Tesla is going for and want to see the future Musk and his cult of personality are trying to build. Self driving cars sound cool, but they lead to all kinds of interesting societal changes. My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. Self driving cars means less drunk drivers. My father had a seizure while he was driving and almost died in the resultant wreck. I'm not saying he (Musk) will necessarily meet all of his goals, but if he hits even 1/2 of them, it is the future I want to live in. I purchased the Tesla to help him make it so. I jokingly have been comparing the Model 3 to an A10 Warthog. The A10 Warthog (famously) is literally a plane built around a really big gun. The gun is the primary focus of A10 designers and it shows. When it comes to a Tesla, it is a computer with amazing batteries that happens to live in a car. It isn't like any existing car on the market, because primarily, it is a computer. This is really exciting, and very different.
  - hartator 7y ago
    > it is a computer with amazing batteries that happens to live in a car hum pretty sure the value of your Tesla will drop to zero if it can’t drive anymore. What are you talking about?
    - ncallaway 7y ago
      I don't see how this comment ties to the parent comment in any way? What part of their comment are you referring to?
      - hartator 7y ago
peapicker 7y ago
To be honest, the Tesla interior leaves me cold. It feels corporate, like being in a nice chair driving a 17" laptop to work. Feels soulless to me. I really hate touch screens and have opted personally for a similarly expensive car with lots of switches and dials that I don't have to look at to make sure I'm on the right one. (Mini Clubman, with basically every option, literally months before they added a touchscreen entertainment system)
- jdhn 7y ago
  While I agree with you about the interior looking rather spartan and the superiority of physical dials and knobs, one nice thing about the Tesla touchscreen is that things are laid out in a somewhat intuitive feature. I had the experience of sitting in a few other cars at the pricepoint (BMW 3 series, and a Mercedes C class), and the infotainment systems in there were way behind. Mercedes uses a touchpad along with a touchscreen for navigation, while the BMW uses a dial along with the touchscreen. I much preferred the Tesla touchscreen only to their weird physical/virtual button hybrid systems.
  - peapicker 7y ago
    I can't disagree, most of the other touchscreen UIs in cars are worse. I fear I'm going to start sounding like the cranky old man when it's time for the next car after this one whining for a more tactile UI. :)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - usaphp 7y ago
    > while the BMW uses a dial along with the touchscreen I have a Bmw with both, and I never use a touchscreen, using the idrive joystick is so much easier than reaching for a touchscreen
    - peapicker 7y ago
Tepix 7y ago
I don't drive a lot and aim to drive even less, I guess i shouldn't take a test drive...
tmh88j 7y ago
>I'd never in my life have thought I'd have bought a car > $50,000 and here I am with a AWD LR Model 3 and loving it! My other car was a 2011 Ford Fiesta. If you don't want to purchase one, don't do a test drive What about the Model 3 swayed your opinion enough to spend 2-3x more on a car than you previously had? I love that Tesla has finally brought "cool" electric cars to the market that don't look like they were purposefully designed be a science experiment (Honda Insight, older Priuses, etc...). However, as a long time auto enthusiast I can't help but wonder how many people who share your sentiment of "once you drive it you'll need it" would end up in a different car if they had also test driven other similarly priced performance cars like the M3/M4, RS3 and C63 AMG. I find it interesting that a tech company has been able to convince people to spend significantly more on a car than they ever would have, and the only two reasons I can come up with are the convenience of charging at home and the big screen. I'm not suggesting Tesla makes sub-par products by any means, only that exciting cars packed with features have been around forever. Many driver's assists like auto pilot and self-parking that people rave about have been offered by Mercedes and BMW for longer than Tesla has even existed, so I don't think that's it, but of course people could be unaware of those features. I'm excited to see what other boundaries Tesla pushes, because every other manufacturer has no option but to play keep up now.
- SEJeff 7y ago
  I answered this a bit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181145 and: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21181755 TL;DNR: I buy in to self driving vehicles being good for humanity as well as electric vehicles being good for humanity. I purchased a Tesla to help make the future Elon opines about into closer to reality (even after the Elon distortion field is removed).
  - tmh88j 7y ago
    Interesting. From what I've read is it fair to say that you're not primarily concerned with the driving experience, but rather the convenience a Tesla provides and supporting them as a brand? I hope I'm not at all coming off as judgemental, I'm genuinely curious about what draws people to the cars they own. I'm a huge auto enthusiast and I too couldn't care less about luxury. The driving experience is about 90% of my consideration when I'm shopping for cars, so I find it interesting to see what factors other people consider. I ended up with a GT-R, which I'm sure a lot of people think I'm absolutely insane for being willing to shell out that much for a Nissan. I can't wait to see the Tesla Roadster in action, it's really going to shake up the world of drag racing.

bryanlarsen 7y ago

For those who are thinking "the Model 3 isn't a luxury car", the model 3 is selling at about half the rate of the Camry or Civic. http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/ http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/ Pretty impressive, IMO.

lostmsu 7y ago
Should check long-term.
messick 7y ago
Your link shows that more Civics were sold by the third week of February than even the biased estimate in this post says Tesla is going to sell all year. For Camry the comparison is even worse.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  My link gives monthly figures, not weekly figures.

coding123 7y ago

In my recent trip down the i5 corridor the M3 was the most common vehicle after the Camry.

neogodless 7y ago
I'm surprised you're seeing that many performance trim level BMWs.
- sillypuddy 7y ago
  M3 in this context means Tesla Model 3
  - dhritzkiv 7y ago
    This always trips me up, no matter that I'm reading the comments section about a Tesla-related article, or am on the Tesla subreddit.
  - cowmix 7y ago
    TM3 is the correct abbreviation.
    - coding123 7y ago
      Thanks I'll use that in the future!

closeparen 7y ago

What's with the huge dropoff between Q4 2018 and Q1 2019?

mohaine 7y ago
If you bought in Q1 2019 the federal income tax rebate for buying a Tesla went from $7500 -> $3750. It halffed again in Q2->Q3 and will be $0 after Q4.
gibolt 7y ago
Q4 was the last month for $7500 incentive in the US, so they opened up to new markets. Thousands of cars were on ships headed to other countries which aren't counted as 'delivered' until over a month later. Q1 is also consistently the weakest quarter for the overall car market.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  It's remarkable that Tesla is making delivery records even though they've lost over $5000 of incentive per car in the US. For a lot of vehicles, that's the entire profit margin. And they're doing that on top of historically low gas prices and without a mid-level SUV or truck. Tesla is proving more robust than the common narrative.
  - gibolt 7y ago
    The worst part for Tesla is that the US federal tax rebate can still be used by the competition that is starting to arrive. Tesla fought such an uphill battle to make electric vehicles mainstream, but now can be undercut by $7500 by the incumbents entering late in the game. This is a double-edged sword, since competition is good. Competitors also are unable to make the same profit margin as Tesla for now.
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      Right, they're fighting that competition right now (eTron has been available for months in the US and its sales are declining) but are still crushing it. In fact, it's disappointing that few have really risen to Tesla's challenge. Taycan does (I'm impressed by the higher voltage of the battery), but at much greater cost and still doesn't quite meet the highest Tesla trim performance. The EV credit system is unfair for domestic EV makers who have taken EVs seriously (GM and Tesla) and advantages foreign EV makers like VW group companies (who count as separate companies according to the tax credit but can use the same platform for their EVs).

losvedir 7y ago

I have trouble squaring this ostensibly fantastic news with the constant dire predictions about the stock. Is it just the stock is considered by some people to be simply overpriced, or is Tesla the company in danger of going bankrupt? I'd like to get a Tesla, but I worry about the company going under and being left with a car that has no resale value or ability to be maintained.

solean 7y ago
I wouldn't worry at all about not being able to maintain it. Worst case scenario: they get acquired and VW/Apple/etc will service your car. The brand is too valuable to die at this point.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Just because the brand lives on doesn't mean the old tooling that makes the replacement parts didn't get sold to someone who will turn it into ball bearings during the liquidation and reorganization. That said, considering how good Tesla isn't at supplying parts to their own shops (let alone the aftermarket) having Dorman (or whoever, but this would be a very Dorman thing to do) acquire all the body dies at some post-bankruptcy liquidation sale and start cranking them out from a factory in China could very well wind up being better for parts availability than the current situation.
- owenmarshall 7y ago
  You have a very optimistic definition of “worst case scenario”. If Tesla is acquired I would imagine it would be for IP; I could easily see the brand going away with the billions of debt.
wlesieutre 7y ago
I have no idea about Tesla's long term prospects, but the maintenance question reminded me of this story about keeping their original Roadsters running: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a28819221/tesla-roadster-repair-carl-medlock/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a28819221/tesla-roadst... >There are unique challenges that come with working on these cars. You might have to rebuild a circuit board one day, and fabricate a new hood the next day. Actually, if any body parts are damaged, you'll have to fabricate them. Tesla doesn't sell parts to anyone, so Medlock has taken to fashioning new panels out of carbon fiber himself.

totaldude87 7y ago

I think there is a dilemma at Tesla whether to go with a mid range ($20-25k car) with limited miles(limited performance,etc etc, you get it...)vs going for the mid luxury to full on luxury ranged cars. Also 2020-21 would be the years where mass market car companies like Honda / Toyota might release their cars and my guess it would start with ~$25k range

judge2020 7y ago
In an interview, Elon said: > let's say ultimately getting like a twenty five thousand dollar car [...] if we work really hard we maybe could do that in three years [with time and scale] https://youtu.be/MevKTPN4ozw?t=280 https://youtu.be/MevKTPN4ozw?t=280
- hnburnsy 7y ago
  Is a base Tesla really too expensive, I mean the new Jeep Gladiator can top out at 55,000?
electriclove 7y ago
"Also 2020-21 would be the years.." It is common to think that a legacy automaker will just start producing EVs in large volumes.. but no one has yet and we've all waited far too long hoping that will. They've made announcements and grand proclamations for well over a decade but haven't produced anything in volume. Meanwhile there has been no end to the shade thrown at EVs.. not enough range, looks ugly, poor handling, causes fires, isn't built by a union worker (even though it is car made in the U.S.A. in 2019!!), waiting for hydrogen/fuel cells, etc. If someone else can produce some great EVs, I will wholeheartedly cheer for them as well! Until then, please join in supporting what Tesla is doing and has achieved.

zarro 7y ago

They are wonderful cars and I have never heard anyone not loving the driving experience. The only concern that I think is preventing growth (Other than production of course) - is the concern about long term reliability. If you buy a camry or prius you know almost for a fact, that your going to drive 200k miles without a problem, and if there is one, its recognized as an engineering failure and the dealership fixes it for free - and fast. But with Tesla, there are lots of rumors that the queue for getting stuff fixed it really long, and that after warranty expires, really expensive. What I am really scared of is another "BMW" style reliability experience, which I would consider to be a catastrophic failure on the part of Tesla. Edit - also accidents "caused" by "autopilot" software, and liability is still a big question.

manigandham 7y ago
Why would it be catastrophic? That kind of reliability works just fine for other luxury brands. Tesla's should naturally be better anyway due to the simpler drivetrain and lack of maintenance.
- zarro 7y ago
  I think that is a lazy business model, selling cars at a very low margin just so that you could make money by planned obsolescence and high cost replacement parts. I would rather buy a car for more money that's engineered to the best possible attainable engineering perfection than one that is not. Often, those more reliable cars are even cheaper and made in massive production. Given Teslas goal of accelerating the change to sustainable energy, it would be in their best interest to make the best possible and reliable car they could at the highest possible production numbers, instead of leaving a competitive advantage for toyota to take over reliable scalable production. Besides I would argue the purpose of the model 3 is a mass market vehicle that is really nice, and not just a niche "luxury" vehicle as is often implied.
  - jankyxenon 7y ago
    I don't think BMW's business model is lazy. You'll come up against design decisions again and again where the trade-off is performance vs. reliability. Toyota would more often choose the latter, BMW the former.

x3haloed 7y ago

This is really important to me, because it's showing up all of the other automakers dragging their feet on making electric cars - giving this excuse and that excuse why it doesn't make sense or it can't be done. It's forcing them to acknowledge that electric is the future, and they're going to have to go electric to stay relevant. I think it's safe to say at this point that Musk has done his job, regardless of the future of Tesla.

usaphp 7y ago
Most of the people I know who got Tesla instead of similarly priced Audi/Bmw/Mercedes did that for “auto pilot” and being electric for some of them was actually a downside.
- goshx 7y ago
  It is hard to believe when the fact it is electric makes it cheaper to charge, more convenient, and provides quicker acceleration. Not to mention the environmental reasons.
electriclove 7y ago
I agree with the sentiment but think his job will be done once the legacy automakers have actually switched (not simply made announcements - although those are encouraging signs). He still needs to continue to grow production. This year will be about 360k in sales. Tesla is on the radar and they need to keep the pressure on.

roland35 7y ago

Great job for Tesla! I was interested in an EV but ended up with a Volt myself - the expiring GM $7,500 plus huge discounts GM was having after announcing after shutting down Volt production let me get a $40k car for under $24k. If I had to pay full MSRP I would have preferred a Tesla (or Bolt) and go full EV rather than PHEV! I do see more and more Telsas on the road, more than Priuses, Leafs, or any other EV/hybrid.

sremani 7y ago
Good choice - Chevy Volt is one of the most under-rated cars ever!

nanijoe 7y ago

I have a Chevy Bolt and a Model 3 in my household. Of course I much prefer to drive the Model 3, but the Chevy bolt is also all electric , goes about 240 miles on a single charge and costs about $20k less than the Model 3. Why more people don't get a Chevy Bolt, is a mystery to me.

fred_is_fred 7y ago
"Chevy"
- navigatesol 7y ago
  "Chevy" That iconic American brand that's been in business for over a century, producing money for shareholders, jobs for 10s of thousands and tax dollars to benefit every American.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I think he was thinking more along the lines of "won't have the instant approval of the internet like brands that start with T, end with A and have 5 or 6 letters will"
  - wffurr 7y ago
    Wouldn't buy a Chevy in a million years. Their reputation is for making cheap hunks of unreliable junk. Maybe that's changed and their new cars suck less, but the brand will forever have a stigma in my mind. Plenty of other useless or actively harmful products also match that description. Philip Morris death sticks. Kellogg's sugar cereals. NFL concussion factory. The point of the GP's comment is to answer the question of "why don't more people buy a Chevy Bolt". Because for a lot of people the Chevy brand is a negative, not a positive.
dmode 7y ago
I got a second Tesla instead of a Chevy Bolt because 1) Superchargers 2) Autopilot 3)Huge screen 4) continuous software updates 5) larger trunk and frunk space 6) more efficient battery 7) long range option 8) no dealership model

blobbers 7y ago

Why do all the real manufacturers have very precise numbers yet Tesla has an estimated number?

kenperkins 7y ago
Article clearly explains that Tesla does not break out region sales, just world wide quarterly sales, so this number is an informed estimate.
messick 7y ago
When the news is good, you shout it from the rooftops. When the news is bad, well, you do what is legally required by the SEC.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
Other manufacturers sell through dealers, Tesla doesn't.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  In other words, for other manufacturers there are several places in the supply chain to get the numbers from. For Tesla, the only place to get numbers is from Tesla itself.

every1isbias 7y ago

Tesla could (and for some, arguably does) make the best vehicles in the world but if they can't figure out how to make them for a profit eventually and inevitably Tesla will go broke. Also something I didn't know until reading the article below is that Telsa doesn't even have IP on their batteries, they're Panasonic batteries! https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2019/05/29/who-would-buy-tesla-and-why/#69ecc79f3451 https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2019/05/29/who-wo... https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/01/22/wasnt-tesla-supposed-to-make-more-money-as-the-model-3-ramped/#7e928494c737 https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/01/22/wasnt-tes...

DeonPenny 7y ago
They own the chemistry for the batteries. Panasonic just packages them. Also they make money on every car not including free money from the software they sell for 10k. They just spend more than what they make from their cars on factories and self-driving research.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
Tesla's gross margin is 15% GAAP. They have an overall loss is because of R&D and capital expenditures etc. They could pull an Amazon and start posting profits at any time. That would be stupid, but they could.

NDizzle 7y ago

It’s a luxury car? I haven’t ever considered the 3 as a luxury car. The 5, sure, but not the 3.

moufestaphio 7y ago
The price puts it well within in the luxury car range.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Build quality... not so much.
- NDizzle 7y ago
  Shouldn't it be the other way around? It's expensive but super shitty compared to actual luxury cars. When Hyundai trumps your build quality you have serious issues.
electriclove 7y ago
"Luxury" is really more an indicator of pricing ranges. The model 3 slots in quite nicely as a competitor to the MB C-Class, BMW 3 and 4 series, Audi A3/A4, etc. Higher trim Accords and Camrys are also in competition here. "Luxury" might mean comfortable ride and steering and leather and wood to some folks. But increasingly many don't care too much about that and care more about the technology advancements (large screen, security cams, software updates, auto pilot, etc).

elbelcho 7y ago

Note that all the Tesla sales numbers in the article are estimates by the author of the article. There are no sources cited in the article. Other articles on this site from this same author are very clearly biased in favor of Tesla and electric cards in general. I would take this article with a grain of salt to say the least. FTA: "Tesla reports quarterly sales and does not break them out by country or region. Eventually, we get registration data from Europe, China (educated estimates at least), and Canada and can then make a more solid estimate of US sales for the quarter, as well as monthly sales estimates. However, it’s a bit early for all of that since we don’t have September numbers from most countries yet. Even our data-loving friend and contributor Jose Pontes of EV Volumes didn’t want to venture out too far on a limb and provide an early estimate that he might have to walk back. That said, looking at previous months’ data, September figures from the Netherlands and Norway, and deeper historical data, I feel comfortable estimating Model 3 sales between 40,000 and 50,000 in the US in the third quarter. For this report, I’ve settled on 43,000."

MrFoof 7y ago
For those truly wanting to do the due diligence, GoodCarBadCar does maintain a ton of sales data -- even down to by model, by month -- for the US and Canada http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model/#vwspc-section-5 http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-mod...
- travisporter 7y ago
  That is depressing... top three by a wide margin are pick up trucks.
briatx 7y ago
Hard to read this as anything other than a sales pitch: > While a 24% market share — 1 out of every 4 sales in this market — seems wild, the thing that blows the minds of many Tesla Model 3 owners is that anyone is still buying an Audi A4, Volvo S60, BMW 320i, Mercedes C300, etc.
metaphor 7y ago

InTheArena 7y ago

I still think it's only a matter of time before Apple takes another bite at Tesla. They want into the space, and are just too far back on the technology curve. They could engage someone to build the car for them, ala what they did for Foxconn, but they are not going to deliver better technology then what Tesla already has. There is a insane amount of overlap between Tesla owners and Apple's most lucrative customers, and Tesla's owner satisfaction is through the roof. It would be pricey, but I can see Apple making a huge bet there.

gnicholas 7y ago

I'm curious to know how people who bought Teslas thought about these pros and cons: • lower maintenance costs than ICE vehicles • higher insurance costs than ICE vehicles • possibility of long delays for repairs (moreso than other EVs) • possibility of company going out of business, and impact on software maintenance, software updates, and parts availability (also moreso than other EVs)

scarlac 7y ago
Long Range Dual Motor Model 3 owner here. > lower maintenance costs than ICE vehicles I researched it prior and it seems people pay very little for maintenance. I've personally logged 13k mi in 10 months and literally had no maintenance expenses. > higher insurance costs than ICE vehicles There are so many variables to insurance pricing. Not to mention that you can bargain. I honestly have a hard time comparing. My rate is around 600 per 6 months. > possibility of long delays for repairs (moreso than other EVs) I've heard about wait times for particular parts. I haven't had an issue myself. I can't compare to other EVs, since I haven't owned others. > possibility of company going out of business, and impact on software maintenance, software updates, and parts availability (also moreso than other EVs) This seems extremely unlikely at this point. Should it happen, the car will still charge and drive just fine.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  Glad to hear about the insurance. I was surprised how much mine went up when we got an inexpensive, used plug-in hybrid (Ford C-MAX). Apparently the repair cost estimates are higher since any damage to the electrical system is very costly to repair (and likely means the vehicle gets written off as totaled). My question about long delays for repairs was regarding collision repairs, about which I've heard horror stories of months-long delays. I've never heard anything like that for vehicles made by big manufacturers. Regarding Tesla going out of business, I wonder if they're more likely to get a bail-out if needed, since so many powerful/wealthy people drive their vehicles. Nonetheless, I worry about having a car that is so dependent upon software, and which currently can't really be maintained by anyone other than Tesla. Presumably Tesla would open up their maintenance protocols so other people could keep the cars on the road, and a cottage industry would pop up to maintain the vehicles.

Wheaties466 7y ago

I don't see this mentioned anywhere. But the Tesla model 3 has the highest saftey rating of any car. disclaimer I am pro tesla. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-sedan/2019 https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-se...

rumblefrog 7y ago
Makes sense since electric cars has no engine, leaving more room for the crumble zone. On top of the center of gravity with the battery pack.
electriclove 7y ago
Fantastic technology, great driving experience, lowest cost of ownership, safest cars on the road.. the masses will catch on.. Yes, I own TSLA and multiple Teslas.
metaphor 7y ago
> But the Tesla model 3 has the highest saftey rating of any car. Confirmation bias. The overall rating is also held by BMW 3 Series, Lexus ES 350, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class (which all rated better in child seat anchors ease of use)...and that's just in the midsize luxury cars category[1]. [1] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/class-summary/midsize-luxury-cars https://www.iihs.org/ratings/class-summary/midsize-luxury-ca...
- goshx 7y ago
  Compare their crash test videos. The difference is evident.
  - metaphor 7y ago
    I did but nothing really jumped out as evident. However, the post-mortem analysis was indeed revealing. TL;DR the Model 3 didn't perform as well with respect to driver-side door hinge pillar intrusion and door sill buckling, contributing to "moderate risk of injury to the left lower leg". General remarks for Mercedes-Benz C-Class[1] and Lexus ES 350[2]: > The dummy's position in relation to the door frame, steering wheel, and instrument panel after the crash test indicates that the driver's survival space was maintained well. > The driver's space was maintained well in both tests, and risk of injuries to the dummy's legs and feet was low. ...as opposed to Tesla Model 3[3]: > The dummy's position in relation to the door frame, steering wheel, and instrument panel after the crash test indicates that the driver's overall survival space was maintained well, despite moderate intrusion of the lower part of the door hinge pillar and buckling of the door sill. > Although intrusion overall into the driver's space was minimal, door hinge pillar intrusion contributed to a moderate risk of injury to the left lower leg. [1] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4-door-sedan/2019#small-overlap-front-driver-side https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4... [2] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/lexus/es-350-4-door-sedan/2019#small-overlap-front-driver-side https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/lexus/es-350-4-door-sed... [3] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4-door-sedan/2019#small-overlap-front-driver-side https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/mercedes-benz/c-class-4...

olyjohn 7y ago

Duh. Even if the numbers in the article were accurate, nobody besides Tesla buyers are purchasing cars. Everybody else is buying Crossovers and SUVs. Ford and Chevrolet don't even have mid size cars anymore.

goshx 7y ago
Sometimes I wonder if the reason for that isn't because there wasn't an option like what Tesla provides now. Anyways, Tesla is also heading that direction with the Model Y (2020) and the truck they are expected to announce in November.

tyfon 7y ago

I have to say if anyone are in doubt about getting one, for me personally the experience of driving the car trumps all other issues I've had with Tesla. I used to be a A to B car person, now I drive for fun all the time. I make up excuses just to drive. Tesla is a startup company and can be a bit difficult to deal with but I will repeat what John Carmac said about his Tesla [1], "It's my happiness machine". [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua-ikbZVofc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua-ikbZVofc [VIDEO]

Animats 7y ago

Cadillac sold about 154,000 cars last year, but they're not listed. The Tesla Model 3 is heavier than the Cadillac CT5 and CTS. All are 5 seats. The Cadillac CTS has a 1.5" longer wheelbase than the Tesla Model 3. The definition of "small and midsize" seems to have been carefully chosen here.

new_realist 7y ago

The sedan market is small and shrinking: there is a reason Ford has abandoned it. Tesla should be viewed in relation to the entire passenger vehicle market. According to http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model/#vwspc-section-5 http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-mod... ... The Model 3 ranks 50th or so.

agumonkey 7y ago

Lots of reassuring news about Tesla recently. Odd. And reassuring. Which is odd.

not_a_cop75 7y ago

The only reason I'm not interested in the Tesla is the overall unavailability of replacement parts.

spectrum1234 7y ago
Is this a major concern? How often are people in accidents on average? I supposed one day this could happen to me. Or hopefully I wouldn't get unlucky and have a normal experience in this case. Regardless, I just haven't needed much body work over the last 15 years at all. I assume this issue is improving too.
- not_a_cop75 7y ago
  I had two minor accidents in 12 months, so yes, it's a major concern. If I were in a Tesla, it would still be drivable today, but something about having a car that is too expensive or hard to fix is not something I like or need. The discovery I have made is that timing commutes away from rush hour does more to prevent accidents than anything else.

deleted 7y ago

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