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I skimmed it, but didn't see much mention of something that I think is pretty big to my generation (I'm '83) in the West: counterculture, protest, etc. It's no

I skimmed it, but didn't see much mention of something that I think is pretty big to my generation (I'm '83) in the West: counterculture, protest, etc. It's not as big as in the 1960s and 1970s had been (before I was born), but still, it was definitely a pretty big element, and LGBTQ+ and social justice seem to be important topics that affect many people here in the West. Here, much of this is expressed -- or social change is effected -- through protest culture, outrage, etc. In China, everybody fully supports the government, don't they? I mean that what the Party does, has 100.00% approval rating at all times, there are no Facebook groups for discussing it, there is no activism protesting anything or driving for any kind of change, and everyone there just totally supports everything. (In Mainland China). So how does this effect their youth and millennials, when they're literally 100.00% on board with everything, and there's no protest culture or counterculture of any kind? - EDIT: little help from downvoters? What am I missing? (It's a really genuine question about a huge difference between East/West.) EDIT2: Thanks for the replies. I think we're all on the same page so I didn't edit my comment. We all are talking about the same facts. However, my specific question is how this effects millennial fashion, etc. (Being edgy, counterculture, etc.) In mainland China, is Millennial fashion missing these "edgy" or countercultural elements?

k__ 7y ago
Maybe your claim that "everybody fully supports the government" is seen as rude?
gdoptimizer 7y ago
The article has already said it. It was not the millennials supported the government 100%. Many of them were just indifferent to politics.
freeflight 7y ago
> In China, everybody fully supports the government, don't they? I mean that what the Party does, has 100.00% approval rating at all times, there are no Facebook groups for discussing it, there is no activism protesting anything or driving for any kind of change, and everyone there just totally supports everything. (In Mainland China). I take issue with that description of China because any government that is in power usually is so because large numbers of its citizens supporting it. That's something absolutely normal, as it doesn't work any other way. But with China, it's somehow made out to be something bad when the Chinese are supportive of their country and government. Similarly: Facebook ain't the only platform for discussion and organizing, the notion that China doesn't have any such platforms, and thus no counterculture like that, is just silly.
- scilro 7y ago
  Ridicule of the government is quite common on Chinese social media. But then a lot of Chinese folks who cross over to Western social media find the anti-CCP sentiment to overreach (no doubt bc of the geopolitical considerations involved), and switch over to a defensive posture as a result.
- corey_moncure 7y ago
  Have you ever been to China? You can find yourself cornered by armed soldiers with assault rifles just for taking a photograph of the "wrong" building in a completely ordinary public thoroughfare. Dissent is literally banned and access to external social networks is cut off. There's no way support for the government is completely genuine in such an environment.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - geogra4 7y ago
    There are plenty of places in the USA where you're not allowed to take photographs too.
    - corey_moncure 7y ago
      Citation needed. Name a place in any USA city where you will be detained and your equipment confiscated for taking pictures from a public thoroughfare.
      - geogra4 7y ago
        You made the assertion that there are places in china where this happens so you can go first.
        corey_moncure 7y ago
        This happened to me personally in Nanjing. I'd show the photos as proof, but of course I don't have them anymore.
SolaceQuantum 7y ago
"there is no activism protesting anything or driving for any kind of change," This isn't true. There have been several documentaries covering people trying to drive change in China that the west has documented. (Hooligan Sparrow, Ai WeiWei: Never Sorry, The Ivory Game, etc. just on Netflix alone) The problem is, these people are regularly disappeared in China and their lives are put at risk by doing this work. In truth, most people know the chinese government, especially Xi, is behaving to preserve control first and foremost. That this benefits the chinese economically is a side effect- but now that effect is waning.
- thrwway483 7y ago
  > these people are regularly disappeared in China and their lives are put at risk by doing this work. that's what I mean. how does this effect fashion?
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    It affects how the counterculture is expressed. Look at the 996 movement for example. Things have to be done carefully, anonymously, covering your own tracks, with a sort of guerilla tactics and plausible deniability. Or, if I can be blunt- the difference between the american idea of being edgy and contercultural and the chinese idea of being edgey and countercultural is that the government in america will not run you over with tanks if you organize a public sit down. (However, make no mistake, the government in america will eliminate dissidents of enough threat in similar ways to china- see chelsea manning or the black panther movement.)
    - thrwway483 7y ago
      so how does this effect clothing, dress, and behavior in public? on the surface does everyone look very compliant and homogeneous? or do they look the same and dress the same as the west? For example, do Chinese millennials use hair colors that don't occur in nature as often, etc?
      - 7y ago
bobbydroptables 7y ago
I'm guessing you're being downvoted for the pretty uninformed, tone deaf statement below. >In China, everybody fully supports the government, don't they? I mean that what the Party does, has 100.00% approval rating at all times, there are no Facebook groups for discussing it, there is no activism protesting anything or driving for any kind of change, and everyone there just totally supports everything. (In Mainland China). No they don't have 100% support. Where are you deriving this information? Your point about Facebook is sort of bizarre. Are you aware that China has famously blocked Facebook? There is activism, too. For example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qidong_protest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qidong_protest
- lonelappde 7y ago
  That article explicitly states that CCP tolerates protest against non-CCP actors and issues that don't challenge their authority. The CCP supported the protest, so it was allowed.
  - bobbydroptables 7y ago
    The claim is that everyone supports everything, no? Presumably these protesters did not support what they are protesting against. Do you disagree? Are you familiar with the Tiananmen Square protest?
- thrwway483 7y ago
  you didn't talk about how this affects fashion, which is my question.
  - bobbydroptables 7y ago
    I don't care how it affects fashion. You asked why you're being downvoted and I explained why.
viraptor 7y ago
> In China, everybody fully supports the government, don't they? Do they? I remember a Chinese friend telling me about how elections worked in his town. When he was a student, their voting cards were checked by the teachers to make sure they supported the principal's friend. So maybe 100% support on paper, but definitely not 100% voluntary. (That's only one small part - there's definitely more opposition, not full support either way)
yourbandsucks 7y ago
"Listen to how woke I am while I call a billion people robots"
- dang 7y ago
  Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - yourbandsucks 7y ago
    Eye of the beholder, brother. Poster asked for feedback. I thought I was being economical.
    - dang 7y ago
      Ah ok. I see your point in this case.
      - yourbandsucks 7y ago
        Cheers and appreciated. FWIW, my basic angle here is 'people are people'. If the board were overloaded with anti-American or anti-Russian stuff, I'd be making mostly the same points.
rb808 7y ago
Eastern Europe in the 80s. Everything seemed mostly normal, everyone "supported the government", no social media, the economy went bad, people grumbled then suddenly in a year or two everything was upended.

k__ 7y ago

Maybe your claim that "everybody fully supports the government" is seen as rude?

gdoptimizer 7y ago

The article has already said it. It was not the millennials supported the government 100%. Many of them were just indifferent to politics.

freeflight 7y ago

> In China, everybody fully supports the government, don't they? I mean that what the Party does, has 100.00% approval rating at all times, there are no Facebook groups for discussing it, there is no activism protesting anything or driving for any kind of change, and everyone there just totally supports everything. (In Mainland China). I take issue with that description of China because any government that is in power usually is so because large numbers of its citizens supporting it. That's something absolutely normal, as it doesn't work any other way. But with China, it's somehow made out to be something bad when the Chinese are supportive of their country and government. Similarly: Facebook ain't the only platform for discussion and organizing, the notion that China doesn't have any such platforms, and thus no counterculture like that, is just silly.

scilro 7y ago
Ridicule of the government is quite common on Chinese social media. But then a lot of Chinese folks who cross over to Western social media find the anti-CCP sentiment to overreach (no doubt bc of the geopolitical considerations involved), and switch over to a defensive posture as a result.
corey_moncure 7y ago
Have you ever been to China? You can find yourself cornered by armed soldiers with assault rifles just for taking a photograph of the "wrong" building in a completely ordinary public thoroughfare. Dissent is literally banned and access to external social networks is cut off. There's no way support for the government is completely genuine in such an environment.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- geogra4 7y ago
  There are plenty of places in the USA where you're not allowed to take photographs too.
  - corey_moncure 7y ago
    Citation needed. Name a place in any USA city where you will be detained and your equipment confiscated for taking pictures from a public thoroughfare.
    - geogra4 7y ago
      You made the assertion that there are places in china where this happens so you can go first.
      - corey_moncure 7y ago
        This happened to me personally in Nanjing. I'd show the photos as proof, but of course I don't have them anymore.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

"there is no activism protesting anything or driving for any kind of change," This isn't true. There have been several documentaries covering people trying to drive change in China that the west has documented. (Hooligan Sparrow, Ai WeiWei: Never Sorry, The Ivory Game, etc. just on Netflix alone) The problem is, these people are regularly disappeared in China and their lives are put at risk by doing this work. In truth, most people know the chinese government, especially Xi, is behaving to preserve control first and foremost. That this benefits the chinese economically is a side effect- but now that effect is waning.

thrwway483 7y ago
> these people are regularly disappeared in China and their lives are put at risk by doing this work. that's what I mean. how does this effect fashion?
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  It affects how the counterculture is expressed. Look at the 996 movement for example. Things have to be done carefully, anonymously, covering your own tracks, with a sort of guerilla tactics and plausible deniability. Or, if I can be blunt- the difference between the american idea of being edgy and contercultural and the chinese idea of being edgey and countercultural is that the government in america will not run you over with tanks if you organize a public sit down. (However, make no mistake, the government in america will eliminate dissidents of enough threat in similar ways to china- see chelsea manning or the black panther movement.)
  - thrwway483 7y ago
    so how does this effect clothing, dress, and behavior in public? on the surface does everyone look very compliant and homogeneous? or do they look the same and dress the same as the west? For example, do Chinese millennials use hair colors that don't occur in nature as often, etc?
    - 7y ago

bobbydroptables 7y ago

I'm guessing you're being downvoted for the pretty uninformed, tone deaf statement below. >In China, everybody fully supports the government, don't they? I mean that what the Party does, has 100.00% approval rating at all times, there are no Facebook groups for discussing it, there is no activism protesting anything or driving for any kind of change, and everyone there just totally supports everything. (In Mainland China). No they don't have 100% support. Where are you deriving this information? Your point about Facebook is sort of bizarre. Are you aware that China has famously blocked Facebook? There is activism, too. For example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qidong_protest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qidong_protest

lonelappde 7y ago
That article explicitly states that CCP tolerates protest against non-CCP actors and issues that don't challenge their authority. The CCP supported the protest, so it was allowed.
- bobbydroptables 7y ago
  The claim is that everyone supports everything, no? Presumably these protesters did not support what they are protesting against. Do you disagree? Are you familiar with the Tiananmen Square protest?
thrwway483 7y ago
you didn't talk about how this affects fashion, which is my question.
- bobbydroptables 7y ago
  I don't care how it affects fashion. You asked why you're being downvoted and I explained why.

viraptor 7y ago

> In China, everybody fully supports the government, don't they? Do they? I remember a Chinese friend telling me about how elections worked in his town. When he was a student, their voting cards were checked by the teachers to make sure they supported the principal's friend. So maybe 100% support on paper, but definitely not 100% voluntary. (That's only one small part - there's definitely more opposition, not full support either way)

yourbandsucks 7y ago

"Listen to how woke I am while I call a billion people robots"

dang 7y ago
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- yourbandsucks 7y ago
  Eye of the beholder, brother. Poster asked for feedback. I thought I was being economical.
  - dang 7y ago
    Ah ok. I see your point in this case.
    - yourbandsucks 7y ago
      Cheers and appreciated. FWIW, my basic angle here is 'people are people'. If the board were overloaded with anti-American or anti-Russian stuff, I'd be making mostly the same points.

rb808 7y ago

Eastern Europe in the 80s. Everything seemed mostly normal, everyone "supported the government", no social media, the economy went bad, people grumbled then suddenly in a year or two everything was upended.