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I have a story similar to this. There was a profound moment in my career when I was working as a consultant for a company I wont name, but they were in Canary

I have a story similar to this. There was a profound moment in my career when I was working as a consultant for a company I wont name, but they were in Canary Wharf, which is the financial center of London, UK. I was in a glass high-rise building, and had been working there for about 4 weeks. The project I was working on was at heart, selling loans and credit to people who couldnt afford it - all hidden by opaque language and euphemisms like the article mentioned. After a few weeks it became clear to me that this is nothing other than programmers being told to use machines to steal from the poor, while the managers walked around like they were geniuses when really they were total frauds and liars. We were very high up, and I remember going on lunch break and overlooking the poorer areas of London. With knowledge that the algorithms I was writing were causing them misery. At that point I just quit, I told my boss I didn't want to be part of it. He just looked at me like I was crazy, then when I grilled him to the point of belittling his intellect, he admitted he knew what they were doing, but had an insane burn rate (wife, kids, expensive house and shit) so he couldn't just quit. If these institutions would die, I would be glad.

faissaloo 7y ago
As someone who lives in one of those areas, thank you for doing the right thing.
JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
I spoke to a guy from there (probably the same company) before who said they were swept up by some kind of drive towards goals, no clue if it was financially incentivised or what but the impression I got was that the targets were sufficiently high pressure to distract them from the ethical issues of the core product? I imagine it's very easy to suppress workers feelings by the right balance of workload and above average pay until they've gotten used to that pay level and can't back out.
jacquesm 7y ago
I have a similar one: A bank I once worked at - long since absorbed by other banks, a Dutch daughter company of Chase Manhattan - had an internal project specifically targeting people in mental institutions. These were typically fairly wealthy because they couldn't spend their money but were paid a monthly stipend by the government. All that money just sitting there was too much of a temptation and they made a special project around relieving those people of their funds.
esotericn 7y ago
> he admitted he knew what they were doing, but had an insane burn rate (wife, kids, expensive house and shit) so he couldn't just quit. A core belief I have, and I try to spread it where possible, is that a person owes it to themselves and to those around them to live in such a way that they have personal freedom. This is precisely the way in which debt is pernicious. This man is trapped in a debt cycle - just as those below him are. We really don't need a lot to get by. But people find ways of trapping themselves - golden handcuffs - it's the house, or the car, or the kids, whatever.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- api 7y ago
  These entities are very much like hostile AIs, or at least the closest we have to them in our world. Since solid state AI is not yet good enough, they use tactics like the ones you describe to assimilate meat brains and use them as components. The whole financial industry seems very much like this. There are all these conspiracy theories that propose that someone -- some group of actual humans -- is on top, but look closely and it seems that in reality the entities themselves are on top and the whole system exists to feed itself as an end in itself.
  - alexis_fr 7y ago
    Throughout civilization we’ve sorted all the simple problems. What should we do when someone murders? Solved. What if it’s because they were bullied? Solved. How do we identify corruption? Solved. How do we deal with alcohol? We have a half-working answer. What do we do with dictators? Solved. How do we compete to create better industries but no so much as not to have thug mentality, employees burning out at their desk and without depleting Earth’s resources? The remaining problems are the hard ones. No surprise they are hard to solve. Ones that can be solved with our current intelligence already have a known solution.
TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
if you'd been able to speak candidly to your boss's bosses you would have discovered that your boss had been encouraged to lead an expensive life precisely because it would lock him into the lifestyle and control his choices. If you'd stayed and worked your way up the ladder, that would have been your fate too. So much respect for quitting - rare, and much appreciated when it happens.

faissaloo 7y ago

As someone who lives in one of those areas, thank you for doing the right thing.

JansjoFromIkea 7y ago

I spoke to a guy from there (probably the same company) before who said they were swept up by some kind of drive towards goals, no clue if it was financially incentivised or what but the impression I got was that the targets were sufficiently high pressure to distract them from the ethical issues of the core product? I imagine it's very easy to suppress workers feelings by the right balance of workload and above average pay until they've gotten used to that pay level and can't back out.

jacquesm 7y ago

I have a similar one: A bank I once worked at - long since absorbed by other banks, a Dutch daughter company of Chase Manhattan - had an internal project specifically targeting people in mental institutions. These were typically fairly wealthy because they couldn't spend their money but were paid a monthly stipend by the government. All that money just sitting there was too much of a temptation and they made a special project around relieving those people of their funds.

esotericn 7y ago

> he admitted he knew what they were doing, but had an insane burn rate (wife, kids, expensive house and shit) so he couldn't just quit. A core belief I have, and I try to spread it where possible, is that a person owes it to themselves and to those around them to live in such a way that they have personal freedom. This is precisely the way in which debt is pernicious. This man is trapped in a debt cycle - just as those below him are. We really don't need a lot to get by. But people find ways of trapping themselves - golden handcuffs - it's the house, or the car, or the kids, whatever.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
api 7y ago
These entities are very much like hostile AIs, or at least the closest we have to them in our world. Since solid state AI is not yet good enough, they use tactics like the ones you describe to assimilate meat brains and use them as components. The whole financial industry seems very much like this. There are all these conspiracy theories that propose that someone -- some group of actual humans -- is on top, but look closely and it seems that in reality the entities themselves are on top and the whole system exists to feed itself as an end in itself.
- alexis_fr 7y ago
  Throughout civilization we’ve sorted all the simple problems. What should we do when someone murders? Solved. What if it’s because they were bullied? Solved. How do we identify corruption? Solved. How do we deal with alcohol? We have a half-working answer. What do we do with dictators? Solved. How do we compete to create better industries but no so much as not to have thug mentality, employees burning out at their desk and without depleting Earth’s resources? The remaining problems are the hard ones. No surprise they are hard to solve. Ones that can be solved with our current intelligence already have a known solution.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago

if you'd been able to speak candidly to your boss's bosses you would have discovered that your boss had been encouraged to lead an expensive life precisely because it would lock him into the lifestyle and control his choices. If you'd stayed and worked your way up the ladder, that would have been your fate too. So much respect for quitting - rare, and much appreciated when it happens.