4 ms·

It's not the greening that makes people in Paris angry, it's the the incompetence in implementing nice sounding ideas. Anyone can have a good idea and say it to

It's not the greening that makes people in Paris angry, it's the the incompetence in implementing nice sounding ideas. Anyone can have a good idea and say it to get elected ... nobody is going to argue with more trees, family friendly city, less crime etc. everyone can recognize these are good ideas ... the difference is in that you put an incompetent but marketable idiot into office and the final outcome will be negative to where you started. An example, Paris has now public piss boxes on every major cross-roads to avoid people pissing in small streets so now you have smelly pissed over boxes in the highest foot traffic areas and people openly pissing there. Good idea, poor implementation, the net value is negative i.e. the situation is worse. So you have a woman with no track record in life in an office surrounded by other people with no track record but ticking the political, sociological boxes. And if you're 50 and you haven't built a track record of any productive work with your own resources at your own risk, you're not likely to suddenly build one with other people's resources (money) at their risk ... your incompetence is likely going to show up.

jimktrains2 7y ago
I spent a week in Paris last Christmas, and made use of many of those public toilets, especially because I have a toddler. The ones I used didn't spell outside. I'm sure I only have a small sample of maybe a dozen, but I have no reason to think they're an exceptional sample? >So you have a woman with no track record in life in an office surrounded by other people with no track record but ticking the political, sociological boxes. And if you're 50 and you haven't built a track record of any productive work, you're not likely to suddenly build one with other people's money I obviously do not follow Paris municipal politics, but why would it flow that never having help public office means you'll never be able to hold off and "build a track record"? That seems a bit circular.
- michalu 7y ago
  No, the problem is these people only held public jobs. They are what you get when bureaucrat breeds with a PR guy ... no creative work, no-problem solving, no personal stakes on their resumes. When they then decide it's time to be productive the lack of competence and disparity between ideas and skills show up. You'll get the case of industrious idiot. For such people a creative task is like a school activity with no personal risk other than bad grade ... but in reality the risk exists they play for other people's money and livelihoods. I've personally observed such tendencies and attitudes among eurocrats.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    > No, the problem is these people only held public jobs We had a good example under the last administration, with an employment minister who could even answer a basic question on how many times a duration-limited contract can be renewed (after reaching that number of times, the employer has to hire with a non-duration-limited contract (CDD => CDI)). And that's the people who are writing the work code!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  > I spent a week in Paris last Christmas, and made use of many of those public toilets, especially because I have a toddler. The ones I used didn't spell outside. I'm sure I only have a small sample of maybe a dozen, but I have no reason to think they're an exceptional sample? I think parent is complaining about the ones that are just for men to urinate into (hrmmm, seems like those were never brought back). Now I'm confused. The public toilets shouldn't smell from outside. You're talking about the (finally free to use) public toilets. They're great, but just not enough imo: 400 in total with 75% closing late in the night.
  - jimktrains2 7y ago
    I didn't realize there was a previous design just for men to urinate in. That probably is my confusion with gp.
yardie 7y ago
> now you have smelly pissed over boxes in the highest foot traffic areas and people openly pissing there. I bet all the residents who used to have pissed filled building corners consider it a net good. I caught one guy pissing in the stairwell RdC of our building. Now, there is just no excuse for that, pissoirs are plentiful. > you have a woman with no track record in life I get it, you simply don't like Hidalgo and that is okay. But she does have a long career in politics. It's not like she sent an applied for the Marie as a gag.
- michalu 7y ago
  Nope, those who liked to piss in the corners still do so. When you're that kind of guy and you're drunk (and there's lot of drunks and drunk tourists) you're not looking for a decent place to do it, you don't care. A more intelligent solution, there used to be metal instalments in Amsterdam that redirected the stream right on your pants ... it least the net value isn't negative as offenders were forced to carry some of those liquids home.
- mwyah 7y ago
  >I bet all the residents who used to have pissed filled building corners consider it a net good. Sure, but now there are more people inconvenienced by that problem than before. So it's a net loss.
dbeley 7y ago
> Paris has now public piss boxes on every major cross-roads to avoid people pissing in small streets Do you have any example on this ? I often go to Paris on a lot of different places and I've never seen anything like this. There are public toilets but I think they are pretty similary to what you can find in every big cities in the world and definitely not open.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  The "uritrottoirs" do seem a bit crazy: https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/europe/paris-urinal-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/europe/paris-urinal-intl/inde... Only 4 of them at the time of this article though.
- michalu 7y ago
  http://gooyadaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/f1-3.jpg http://gooyadaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/f1-3.jpg and they're "eco friendly" because you then have government employees take out a small sized box fit for a few uses and put it into compost ... because apparently human pee is so rich in nutrients that the net benefit out-weights employing additional people to do such work. But you know, French millennials are crazy about composting so having that scores some solid political popularity points. Here: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/CCF1/production/_102956425_hi048657394.jpg https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/CCF1/production/... You can see the boxes are leaking, but instead of hidden corner you now have the liquids right next to building's entry. And let's not forget the highly frequented areas: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/30/13/4F86757600000578-6113915-Notes_left_on_the_urinals_said_in_French_Women_who_take_out_thei-a-26_1535632283631.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/30/13/4F867576000...
  - dbeley 7y ago
    There only seems to be 4 of them as of now, so "every major cross-roads" become just "an experiment with 4". That's also the only example you took to prove your point of politic's "incompetence in implementing nice sounding ideas."
  - deleted 7y ago
_n_b_ 7y ago
> Paris has now public piss boxes on every major cross-roads I live in Paris. I can confidently say, no, that's absolutely not true.
- crashcrashcrush 7y ago
  100% - Paris is one of the cleanest "big cities" I've ever visited. San Francisco should be so lucky.

jimktrains2 7y ago

I spent a week in Paris last Christmas, and made use of many of those public toilets, especially because I have a toddler. The ones I used didn't spell outside. I'm sure I only have a small sample of maybe a dozen, but I have no reason to think they're an exceptional sample? >So you have a woman with no track record in life in an office surrounded by other people with no track record but ticking the political, sociological boxes. And if you're 50 and you haven't built a track record of any productive work, you're not likely to suddenly build one with other people's money I obviously do not follow Paris municipal politics, but why would it flow that never having help public office means you'll never be able to hold off and "build a track record"? That seems a bit circular.

michalu 7y ago
No, the problem is these people only held public jobs. They are what you get when bureaucrat breeds with a PR guy ... no creative work, no-problem solving, no personal stakes on their resumes. When they then decide it's time to be productive the lack of competence and disparity between ideas and skills show up. You'll get the case of industrious idiot. For such people a creative task is like a school activity with no personal risk other than bad grade ... but in reality the risk exists they play for other people's money and livelihoods. I've personally observed such tendencies and attitudes among eurocrats.
- baud147258 7y ago
  > No, the problem is these people only held public jobs We had a good example under the last administration, with an employment minister who could even answer a basic question on how many times a duration-limited contract can be renewed (after reaching that number of times, the employer has to hire with a non-duration-limited contract (CDD => CDI)). And that's the people who are writing the work code!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Scoundreller 7y ago
> I spent a week in Paris last Christmas, and made use of many of those public toilets, especially because I have a toddler. The ones I used didn't spell outside. I'm sure I only have a small sample of maybe a dozen, but I have no reason to think they're an exceptional sample? I think parent is complaining about the ones that are just for men to urinate into (hrmmm, seems like those were never brought back). Now I'm confused. The public toilets shouldn't smell from outside. You're talking about the (finally free to use) public toilets. They're great, but just not enough imo: 400 in total with 75% closing late in the night.
- jimktrains2 7y ago
  I didn't realize there was a previous design just for men to urinate in. That probably is my confusion with gp.

yardie 7y ago

> now you have smelly pissed over boxes in the highest foot traffic areas and people openly pissing there. I bet all the residents who used to have pissed filled building corners consider it a net good. I caught one guy pissing in the stairwell RdC of our building. Now, there is just no excuse for that, pissoirs are plentiful. > you have a woman with no track record in life I get it, you simply don't like Hidalgo and that is okay. But she does have a long career in politics. It's not like she sent an applied for the Marie as a gag.

michalu 7y ago
Nope, those who liked to piss in the corners still do so. When you're that kind of guy and you're drunk (and there's lot of drunks and drunk tourists) you're not looking for a decent place to do it, you don't care. A more intelligent solution, there used to be metal instalments in Amsterdam that redirected the stream right on your pants ... it least the net value isn't negative as offenders were forced to carry some of those liquids home.
mwyah 7y ago
>I bet all the residents who used to have pissed filled building corners consider it a net good. Sure, but now there are more people inconvenienced by that problem than before. So it's a net loss.

dbeley 7y ago

> Paris has now public piss boxes on every major cross-roads to avoid people pissing in small streets Do you have any example on this ? I often go to Paris on a lot of different places and I've never seen anything like this. There are public toilets but I think they are pretty similary to what you can find in every big cities in the world and definitely not open.

BurningFrog 7y ago
The "uritrottoirs" do seem a bit crazy: https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/europe/paris-urinal-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/europe/paris-urinal-intl/inde... Only 4 of them at the time of this article though.
michalu 7y ago
http://gooyadaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/f1-3.jpg http://gooyadaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/f1-3.jpg and they're "eco friendly" because you then have government employees take out a small sized box fit for a few uses and put it into compost ... because apparently human pee is so rich in nutrients that the net benefit out-weights employing additional people to do such work. But you know, French millennials are crazy about composting so having that scores some solid political popularity points. Here: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/CCF1/production/_102956425_hi048657394.jpg https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/CCF1/production/... You can see the boxes are leaking, but instead of hidden corner you now have the liquids right next to building's entry. And let's not forget the highly frequented areas: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/30/13/4F86757600000578-6113915-Notes_left_on_the_urinals_said_in_French_Women_who_take_out_thei-a-26_1535632283631.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/30/13/4F867576000...
- dbeley 7y ago
  There only seems to be 4 of them as of now, so "every major cross-roads" become just "an experiment with 4". That's also the only example you took to prove your point of politic's "incompetence in implementing nice sounding ideas."
- deleted 7y ago

_n_b_ 7y ago

> Paris has now public piss boxes on every major cross-roads I live in Paris. I can confidently say, no, that's absolutely not true.

crashcrashcrush 7y ago
100% - Paris is one of the cleanest "big cities" I've ever visited. San Francisco should be so lucky.