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Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly. Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo,
by socialdemocrat 7y ago
Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly.
Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo, I may see 6-7 Tesla's on that short walk. I only realize how abnormal that is when it is when I travel abroad. Spent several days in London and didn't see a single Tesla.
Spent a week in Spain and didn't even see an electric car at all. In Norway there are Leafs, BMW i3, e-Golf, Teslas, Ionic, you name it going around all the time.
What is interesting to observe is how it just accelerates. The more normal it gets to drive electric the more people jump onboard. A lot of people are reluctant to try something entirely different. But then they drive in their friends electric car or sit in an electric cab etc and it all starts to look really normal.
- xyzzyz 7y agoThat’s no surprise, since Norwegian government heavily penalizes ICE vehicles, and advantages the electric cars. No VAT, no CO2 tax, and lots of other incentives are involved. If your goal is to upgrade your country’s vehicle fleet to electric, then Norway is a good example that with enough government spending it can happen. Don’t mistake it for “normal people jumping onboard electric train”, though, they are jumping onboard tax incentives train.
- 4gotunameagain 7y agoIt's a car, and an expensive one. Very few people would base their decision only on the tax incentives.
- dogma1138 7y agoI don’t think you realize how much cars cost in Norway the country has an effective tax rate on cars that is over 100%. A new Ford Focus with all taxes and fees will cost you around $50,000, the base model without fees alone starts at around $35,000 (320,000 NOK). That’s a $12-13K car in the US, a Tesla on the otherhand might cost you even lower than the US sticker price under some circumstances, especially on the officially refurbished ones. Add other benefits on top of that and the fact that petrol in Norway costs $7 per gallon, money is the pretty much the only reason why people buy Tesla’s and other EVs at such high rates in Norway.
- kungtotte 7y agoTo contrast this with Sweden, another heavily taxed country, we bought a new Mazda 6 Wagon in 2016 and it cost us 313000 SEK (~289000 NOK), fully loaded with all the trimmings and an extra set of winter tyres on rims to boot. Car prices in Norway are crazy high.
- oldandboring 7y agoThe 2018 Focus had a starting MSRP around $17.5k. I'm not really sure what they actually listed for at dealerships and I'm having a hard time finding info on the 2019 Focus being sold in the US. But, yeah obviously this is a much less expensive car in the US. $50k for a compact is ridiculous.
- mrweasel 7y agoThe Focus isn’t considered a compact car in countries like Denmark, where it’s priced similarly to Norway. The Focus is a midsize car.
- ddalex 7y agoThe Norway new car tax is above 100% for ICEs. So you can either buy a 30k ICE or 60k Tesla (which is taxed 0%), and get a lot more value for your money - in addition to that you have free parking in the cities too for electrics.
- alkonaut 7y agoIn Norway every single person buying a new car makes the decision based on tax incentives to a large extent.
- elygre 7y agoAs a (fellow?) Norwegian, I beg to differ. Some of us thinks electric cars are both great cars and environmentally friendly, and make buying decisions based on those two.
- alkonaut 7y agoAll I’m saying is that no Norwegian (or anyone else) ignores price in a purchase decision, and the one time fees for cars in Norway are so large that no one can ignore them. Those that are inclined to purchase a hybrid or EV isn’t exactly going to be discouraged by the tax/fee rebates.
- cj 7y agoAlso, price of gas is 2.5x higher in Norway than somewhere like the USA. If you're in the USA and fill your tank once a week, you probably spend ~$2000/yr in gas. And that's how much you'd save in gas if you went electric. In areas with higher fuel prices, the incentive is proportionally larger. (That's ignoring the cost of paying your electric bill, not sure if that changes the math much..)
- npo9 7y agoIt depends on what price you pay for Electricity, but paying for the electricity is more than half as cheap as paying for gas. Plus in the US there are so many free chargers, I just charge my car at the office.
- jfk13 7y agoI have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. Providing free chargers (i.e. subsidizing people's driving expenses) may be great PR for businesses, municipalities, etc., as long as there are relatively few people using them, but will not be sustainable as demand increases. And as more people shift from ICE-powered vehicles to electric ones, it seems likely that some of the taxes currently imposed on gasoline may end up applying to electric charging as well, as governments will need to maintain the revenue somehow.
- ZeroGravitas 7y agoOne counterbalancing force is renewables and using cars as part of demand response. If solar energy that would otherwise go to waste can be stored in cars, then that reduces the chance the car will need charged at another time and save the utility money. I can imagine plugs that you connect to for free when parked, that only give you as much power as they want but that will also let you buy express power when absolutely required via an app.
- greglindahl 7y agoPlenty of places already charge an equivalent to gas taxes for electric vehicles. In my US state, it's paid with your yearly registration. My city initially gave away free charging to lower air pollution, which wasn't on your list of reasons. 6 years after that start, they've started charging.
- cloudwalking 7y agoModel 3 appears to be the #6 best selling car in USA last quarter* and I don't believe there is much of any USA tax incentive anymore. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/06/tesla-model-3-6th-best-selling-car-in-usa-in-3rd-quarter/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/06/tesla-model-3-6th-best-...
- brians 7y ago$1850 federal tax incentive, $1500 in my state. It doesn’t close the cost gap with ICE, but it sure is nice.
- new_realist 7y agoThat's sedans (a small and shrinking portion of the auto market), not vehicles. If you count passenger vehicles, the Model 3 is #27 YTD.
- Robotbeat 7y agoIt's cars, not sedans. Trucks have taken over US passenger vehicles. With consequence for pedestrian safety, parking spaces, space between vehicles on the road, and fuel consumption.
- jansan 7y agoKeep in mind that the best selling passenger vehicles are not called "car" in the US statistics, but "light trucks". The number of light trucks sold in September 2019 is almost three times the number of "passenger cars". https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig_usa_2019 https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig...
- goshx 7y agoTesla is heading that direction too with Model Y coming out next year and the truck they are expected to announce in November. This will be interesting to watch.
- simonebrunozzi 7y ago
- ZeroGravitas 7y agoHow much do they offer? I've seen estimates that over its lifetime an EV purchased in America saves society about $20,000. Though at least one component of that will be higher in Norway as their grid is so clean that it'll be even better on health impacts. I'm not sure that a society continuously voting for sane, reality-based economic policies over a few decades is different from "normal people jumping on board the electric train" if that's where they end up. Who else should they "blame" for this sensible and rational policy if not themselves?
- oska 7y agoThe Norwegian government has support for its EV policies from the 'normal people' who voted it in. Every poll I've seen across a range of countries shows strong interest in and support for the transtion to EVs. Sometimes the national governments ignore this support (e.g. in my own country of Australia) but I'm not aware of any country where the government is ahead of interest and support from 'normal people', including Norway.
- charlesdm 7y agoIn all honesty, it only sells well because of the tax benefits. Do the actual math and then figure out how many people would then buy and use it. Likely not a lot.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- justapassenger 7y agoHaving someone else to pay for a large part of your purchase is a very powerful initiative.
- icebraining 7y agoYes, being allowed to dump a massive externality onto others does make cars quite a bit cheaper than if you had to pay their full cost. That's true for all cars, of course, though more for some than others.
- ryanSrich 7y agoWell, price also holds people back. An entry level Tesla with autopilot is still north of $40k after taxes (even with the break).
- toomuchtodo 7y agoAverage price of a new car in the US is $37k. 17 million new cars a year sold in the US. Price isn’t as big of an issue as it’s made to be. If you can’t afford a Tesla, you probably should only be looking at affordable used cars anyway (like a Toyota or Honda for $10k-$20k).
- callalex 7y agoThat’s the average but what’s the median? The long tail on new car prices crosses multiple orders of magnitude.
- erikpukinskis 7y agoLooks like for light vehicles it’s bimodal, with peaks at both $28k and $40k: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fact-989-august-7-2017-most-common-price-point-light-vehicles-sold-2016-was https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fact-989-augus...
- ryanSrich 7y agoDifferent strokes I guess. For me it’s the utility factor. I can get a well equipped, 4 door Tacoma for $32k. That’s a hell of a lot more useful to me than a $40k Tesla. Perhaps if Tesla had a small sized pickup for less than $45k I’d give it a look, but their lower-end options just aren’t that attractive. When you’re looking at a vehicle that’s the size of a civic, that isn’t a fun sports car, I just don’t see how the average American can justify it. I’m not exactly sure who Tesla Model 3 is supposed to be competing with. It’s not cheap enough to compete with Honda, Toyota, etc. and it’s not expensive enough to compete with luxury brands like Mercedes, Lexus, etc.
- deleted 7y ago
- mymythisisthis 7y agoAlso they might last longer than a badly built ICE car, so over time the ratio will become even more skewed towards electric cars.
- m463 7y agoGo to the Bay Area California. That said, never saw a Telsa in snow.
- VladimirGolovin 7y agoI've seen quite a lot of electric cars in Barcelona this summer. Mostly Teslas, BMW i3s, and some Renaults with the plug hidden behind the front logo. The main street, the Diagonal, has charging stations, and often I saw plugged-in cars charging there.
- turk73 7y agoJust another data point emphasizing how everyone there is kind of a cuck who doesn't have a single iota of independence about them. These are typically the kinds of people who get slaughtered wholesale in a world war type scenario. The first phase is to get everyone into a car that can be controlled (on/off) by a computer network. The second phase will be to start limiting when and where "owners" of these cars can drive them. The final phase is total, Chinese-style subjugation of the population. You might want to throw off those chains before that or generations of your families are going to have a very hard time.