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Wow. In one short week this all happened and was defused by the teacher: > There is no such thing as a national youth movement called the Third Wave. You have

Wow. In one short week this all happened and was defused by the teacher: > There is no such thing as a national youth movement called the Third Wave. You have been used. Manipulated. Shoved by your own desires into the place you now find yourself. You are no better or worse than the German Nazis we have been studying And > Silence is what happens when you feel shame What I find particularly interesting is that the basic elements of what happened can be seen in all walks of life, even in tech. Eg. The 'gamification' that many products use, is very much like the 'follow our rules and you'll be rewarded', and the 'belief' in a central tenant becomes a central rule of authority. The marketing slogans used to gain groundswell are the same: an agenda to deepen one's commitment to the cause. Even HN, with it's karma, @dang as our bodyguard, with YC as the central body. All down and up votes on this comment will prove the point that the secret police are here too, gauging my suitability to the cause. So, a fantastic article that shows we all have natural tendencies to be sheep, but are all also wanting to be elitist sheep.

mistermann 7y ago
> All down and up votes on this comment will prove the point that the secret police are here too, gauging my suitability to the cause. Whats so easy to see in others is almost impossible to see in oneself.
sitkack 7y ago
I see this all the time when folks at work are trying to "fit in" and project the right signals up-ladder. They entertain ideas that if put forward by a peer would be ruthlessly ridiculed. They make inane jokes that we all uncomfortably laugh at, while they focus on non-problems and ignore unknown-knowns. I feel shame for putting up with those clumsy charades.
- extempore 7y ago
  I have a feeling you mean that they ignore known unknowns. Everyone ignores unknown knowns, because they are unknown.
labster 7y ago
Please don't draw these kinds of false equivalences between normal behavior and authoritarianism, as it really muddies the waters and makes it easier for real authoritarians to take advantage. It's really unfair to compare dang to the secret police, when most of what he does is encourage polite debate. I've gotten real death threats from real fascists and I assure you HN mod staff are not fascists. (n.b. being intolerant of the intolerant is required for a tolerant society.) Some of us have natural tendencies not to be sheep. I have walked out of rooms of twenty of my friends because what I thought they were doing was just going along with immoral cause. I've refused tasks at work because it wasn't appropriate. There are lots of artistic and revolutionary types, too. All it takes is standing up and a little guts.
- cmroanirgo 7y ago
  Firstly, I have loads of respect for @dang and the community here. I think a slight misunderstanding occurred here. I made no claim to facist behaviours nor tendencies toward such: Just the claim that we all want to belong, that we all want to be seen, and that we also call others out for behaviour that doesn't match our view of the rules (such as this feedback). I too walk away from immoral things... but that doesn't mean I'm not sheep like in other areas of my life (eg. blindly obeying a red traffic light when there's no one else on the road) This is what the teacher was teaching the kids in the article: "You are no better or worse than the German Nazis we have been studying"
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    > blindly obeying a red traffic light when there's no one else on the road It's funny how that is. I don't know anybody who would run a stale red light in the middle of the night when noone else is around, including me. I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure that it's rare. In the West, we've been conditioned to blindly obey traffic signals. On the other hand, most of us have stretched the yellow into the red. What's the difference there? Running a stale red is blatant, but running a fresh red is justifiable because "it's just a few seconds!".
- throw_xyzyz 7y ago

mistermann 7y ago

> All down and up votes on this comment will prove the point that the secret police are here too, gauging my suitability to the cause. Whats so easy to see in others is almost impossible to see in oneself.

sitkack 7y ago

I see this all the time when folks at work are trying to "fit in" and project the right signals up-ladder. They entertain ideas that if put forward by a peer would be ruthlessly ridiculed. They make inane jokes that we all uncomfortably laugh at, while they focus on non-problems and ignore unknown-knowns. I feel shame for putting up with those clumsy charades.

extempore 7y ago
I have a feeling you mean that they ignore known unknowns. Everyone ignores unknown knowns, because they are unknown.

labster 7y ago

Please don't draw these kinds of false equivalences between normal behavior and authoritarianism, as it really muddies the waters and makes it easier for real authoritarians to take advantage. It's really unfair to compare dang to the secret police, when most of what he does is encourage polite debate. I've gotten real death threats from real fascists and I assure you HN mod staff are not fascists. (n.b. being intolerant of the intolerant is required for a tolerant society.) Some of us have natural tendencies not to be sheep. I have walked out of rooms of twenty of my friends because what I thought they were doing was just going along with immoral cause. I've refused tasks at work because it wasn't appropriate. There are lots of artistic and revolutionary types, too. All it takes is standing up and a little guts.

cmroanirgo 7y ago
Firstly, I have loads of respect for @dang and the community here. I think a slight misunderstanding occurred here. I made no claim to facist behaviours nor tendencies toward such: Just the claim that we all want to belong, that we all want to be seen, and that we also call others out for behaviour that doesn't match our view of the rules (such as this feedback). I too walk away from immoral things... but that doesn't mean I'm not sheep like in other areas of my life (eg. blindly obeying a red traffic light when there's no one else on the road) This is what the teacher was teaching the kids in the article: "You are no better or worse than the German Nazis we have been studying"
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  > blindly obeying a red traffic light when there's no one else on the road It's funny how that is. I don't know anybody who would run a stale red light in the middle of the night when noone else is around, including me. I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure that it's rare. In the West, we've been conditioned to blindly obey traffic signals. On the other hand, most of us have stretched the yellow into the red. What's the difference there? Running a stale red is blatant, but running a fresh red is justifiable because "it's just a few seconds!".
throw_xyzyz 7y ago