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When I was in college I would zone out in lecture and wait till I got home to do the homework because I was being graded on homework and exams, not how well I p

When I was in college I would zone out in lecture and wait till I got home to do the homework because I was being graded on homework and exams, not how well I paid attention in class. Now I zone out in meetings because I don’t think they’re important and pine for the moment when I can go back to my desk and do my individual work. Homework trained me to behave disconnected, I don’t known if it has stuck with me because I’ve been able to get away with it or because paying attention in meetings is unnecessary.

shrimp_emoji 7y ago
I have to give the "flipped classroom" model some credit: doing the "homework" IN "lecture", collaboratively and interactively, and having free time at home sure feels better than the conventional model. The conventional one always seemed absurd to me: I have to go to school and then continue being in school, mentally, AFTER school? Disassociation aside, it seems like that's training you for a 16-hour workday. How oppressive. Maybe the flipped model can only support a lower cognitive ceiling though; I've never seen it applied to, say, calculus courses. Maybe hard enough material does require constant, oppressive grinding. D: (Not that young kids should be doing that though.)
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  My algebra 2 teacher in high school did this. Class started with an assignment. You had to read the book, collaboratively work on the assignments, and then the last portion of the class he lectured, which was mostly answering questions. It worked really well.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- vector_spaces 7y ago
  I had an incredible calc 1 and 3 teacher who would start the class with a problem that we'd work on for 20ish minutes. usually it was something just out of reach with where we were topically, or something that required us to use like basic geometry (which many of us were rusty on), and then we'd talk about it, ask questions, and he'd segue into a lecture where he'd connect the dots with what we were studying. I vaguely remember one was essentially to prove herons rule which we only had the tools to do from vanilla geometry, then he showed how it could be done with calculus. Lectures were almost Socratic. We were only graded based on exams and participation, which I think he kind of arbitrarily awarded based on how engaged he thought you were. Brilliant guy, loved his classes. He'd studied under a couple members of the Bourbaki group and headed the math department at one of the top math schools in Latin America. Anyway, I had a great experience with this approach and I really think it's the best way to teach math.
  - nsriv 7y ago
    I currently teach high school math and have been trying a similar approach, and received push back from every experienced educator I've encountered, but have been receiving great reviews from students (especially ones that have low math confidence). This post was really encouraging to me, thanks for sharing!
    - grawprog 7y ago
      The best math teacher I ever had throughout all my schooling structured lessons that way. There'd be an introduction to a new topic, with problems we'd get a chance to work through alone then aftwards we'd all go through them together. That was pretty much the extent of the lecture part. Then we'd get an exercise to work on for the last half of the class that covered what we learned. The teacher was always extremely patient and would help everyone who needed it. Sometimes explaining the same thing over and over to different people without ever becoming frustrated. There was optional(but highly encouraged) homework if we wanted more practice. The teacher would be available for an additional tutoring session to work on the optional homework if people wanted it. We weren't graded on it. All our marks came from exams. That class was really the first time a lot of concepts actually started to make sense for me and I went from being a pretty below average math student to having some of the highest marks in the class.
    - IggleSniggle 7y ago
      The very best teacher I ever had was my calculus teacher, who was teaching it for her first year, and although claimed she had trouble with calculus, was a truly gifted teacher and an enthusiastic “math nerd.” The shtick about being bad at calculus, whether true or not, translated into a highly Socratic and collaborative learning environment, where all the students were legitimately teaching each other. This was modeled by us “teaching” our teacher. Thinking back, it really is incredibly remarkable what she accomplished. Not that standardized tests are the greatest measure, but in less than a year of calc instruction, a full classroom of smart but fairly unremarkable students all scored top scored on the AP Calc BC test (in other words, every single one of us tested out of 100-level college calculus). This was a scenario where having a “large” (ie more than 1-5 students) class (I think there may have been about 20 of us) with a gifted teacher brought out a positive side to non-small classes that you don’t usually see. We all learned the material well enough to teach it, and we all had many teachers we could go to for help understanding a concept.
bsder 7y ago
> When I was in college I would zone out in lecture and wait till I got home to do the homework because I was being graded on homework and exams 1) College is very different from high school 2) If you don't need the lecturer, then the lecturer sucks. 3) If you really understand that well, why come (I can only assume they took attendance)? I had a digital logical class that was required, but I didn't bother showing up and scored 150%. When I lecture, if you don't need to be there, don't show up. That's perfectly fine by me. However, don't expect me to have a lot of sympathy if you suddenly find that you don't really understand what I lectured on that you skipped.
- balfirevic 7y ago
  > 2) If you don't need the lecturer, then the lecturer sucks. Meh. Some topics for some people are simply better served by a textbook. > I can only assume they took attendance Not the parent poster, but yes, some professors required us to attend. You don't - great for you and your students.
  - bsder 7y ago
    > Not the parent poster, but yes, some professors required us to attend. You don't - great for you and your students. Well, when I teach, my classes are technical material. One student knowing (or not) the subject has no material impact on any other student. I also have a fixed amount of topics that I need to get across--your grade in my class should reflect your mastery of the material. If you understand the topics properly, I should give you the appropriate grade regardless of how you came about that knowledge. If I taught a class dependent upon discussion (Philosophy or Political Science for example), I might have a different opinion.
- acollins1331 7y ago
  If you can score 150% in a class it was probably a joke class to begin with, that's some ridiculous opportunity for grade inflation.
missblit 7y ago
I just always did homework in class. More productive than zoning out. Though in meetings I always pay attention, this may sound weird, but I like the social aspect of meetings.
newnewpdro 7y ago
Strange. The jobs I've been most engaged at, I would usually attentively listen in meetings while others present would spin their wheels discussing technical stuff in the weeds until I'd see a clearly superior alternate solution and put that forward. It would appear as if I were zoning out in meetings, but I was actually just listening and thinking about the problem. I don't think people are particularly good at thinking while also discussing/debating, but I also don't think I would have as quickly arrived at the better solutions without the ability to attentively observe the relevant discussions. If you're not even paying attention / thinking about anything relevant while in a meeting, your presence is a pointless waste of time and space and you should be doing something else.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  I just read "I decided my ideas were so good I had no motivation to collaborate on a compromise with coworkers", so OP seems correct.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    In reference to my personal experience with meetings?

shrimp_emoji 7y ago

I have to give the "flipped classroom" model some credit: doing the "homework" IN "lecture", collaboratively and interactively, and having free time at home sure feels better than the conventional model. The conventional one always seemed absurd to me: I have to go to school and then continue being in school, mentally, AFTER school? Disassociation aside, it seems like that's training you for a 16-hour workday. How oppressive. Maybe the flipped model can only support a lower cognitive ceiling though; I've never seen it applied to, say, calculus courses. Maybe hard enough material does require constant, oppressive grinding. D: (Not that young kids should be doing that though.)

Consultant32452 7y ago
My algebra 2 teacher in high school did this. Class started with an assignment. You had to read the book, collaboratively work on the assignments, and then the last portion of the class he lectured, which was mostly answering questions. It worked really well.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
vector_spaces 7y ago
I had an incredible calc 1 and 3 teacher who would start the class with a problem that we'd work on for 20ish minutes. usually it was something just out of reach with where we were topically, or something that required us to use like basic geometry (which many of us were rusty on), and then we'd talk about it, ask questions, and he'd segue into a lecture where he'd connect the dots with what we were studying. I vaguely remember one was essentially to prove herons rule which we only had the tools to do from vanilla geometry, then he showed how it could be done with calculus. Lectures were almost Socratic. We were only graded based on exams and participation, which I think he kind of arbitrarily awarded based on how engaged he thought you were. Brilliant guy, loved his classes. He'd studied under a couple members of the Bourbaki group and headed the math department at one of the top math schools in Latin America. Anyway, I had a great experience with this approach and I really think it's the best way to teach math.
- nsriv 7y ago
  I currently teach high school math and have been trying a similar approach, and received push back from every experienced educator I've encountered, but have been receiving great reviews from students (especially ones that have low math confidence). This post was really encouraging to me, thanks for sharing!
  - grawprog 7y ago
    The best math teacher I ever had throughout all my schooling structured lessons that way. There'd be an introduction to a new topic, with problems we'd get a chance to work through alone then aftwards we'd all go through them together. That was pretty much the extent of the lecture part. Then we'd get an exercise to work on for the last half of the class that covered what we learned. The teacher was always extremely patient and would help everyone who needed it. Sometimes explaining the same thing over and over to different people without ever becoming frustrated. There was optional(but highly encouraged) homework if we wanted more practice. The teacher would be available for an additional tutoring session to work on the optional homework if people wanted it. We weren't graded on it. All our marks came from exams. That class was really the first time a lot of concepts actually started to make sense for me and I went from being a pretty below average math student to having some of the highest marks in the class.
  - IggleSniggle 7y ago
    The very best teacher I ever had was my calculus teacher, who was teaching it for her first year, and although claimed she had trouble with calculus, was a truly gifted teacher and an enthusiastic “math nerd.” The shtick about being bad at calculus, whether true or not, translated into a highly Socratic and collaborative learning environment, where all the students were legitimately teaching each other. This was modeled by us “teaching” our teacher. Thinking back, it really is incredibly remarkable what she accomplished. Not that standardized tests are the greatest measure, but in less than a year of calc instruction, a full classroom of smart but fairly unremarkable students all scored top scored on the AP Calc BC test (in other words, every single one of us tested out of 100-level college calculus). This was a scenario where having a “large” (ie more than 1-5 students) class (I think there may have been about 20 of us) with a gifted teacher brought out a positive side to non-small classes that you don’t usually see. We all learned the material well enough to teach it, and we all had many teachers we could go to for help understanding a concept.

bsder 7y ago

> When I was in college I would zone out in lecture and wait till I got home to do the homework because I was being graded on homework and exams 1) College is very different from high school 2) If you don't need the lecturer, then the lecturer sucks. 3) If you really understand that well, why come (I can only assume they took attendance)? I had a digital logical class that was required, but I didn't bother showing up and scored 150%. When I lecture, if you don't need to be there, don't show up. That's perfectly fine by me. However, don't expect me to have a lot of sympathy if you suddenly find that you don't really understand what I lectured on that you skipped.

balfirevic 7y ago
> 2) If you don't need the lecturer, then the lecturer sucks. Meh. Some topics for some people are simply better served by a textbook. > I can only assume they took attendance Not the parent poster, but yes, some professors required us to attend. You don't - great for you and your students.
- bsder 7y ago
  > Not the parent poster, but yes, some professors required us to attend. You don't - great for you and your students. Well, when I teach, my classes are technical material. One student knowing (or not) the subject has no material impact on any other student. I also have a fixed amount of topics that I need to get across--your grade in my class should reflect your mastery of the material. If you understand the topics properly, I should give you the appropriate grade regardless of how you came about that knowledge. If I taught a class dependent upon discussion (Philosophy or Political Science for example), I might have a different opinion.
acollins1331 7y ago
If you can score 150% in a class it was probably a joke class to begin with, that's some ridiculous opportunity for grade inflation.

missblit 7y ago

I just always did homework in class. More productive than zoning out. Though in meetings I always pay attention, this may sound weird, but I like the social aspect of meetings.

newnewpdro 7y ago

Strange. The jobs I've been most engaged at, I would usually attentively listen in meetings while others present would spin their wheels discussing technical stuff in the weeds until I'd see a clearly superior alternate solution and put that forward. It would appear as if I were zoning out in meetings, but I was actually just listening and thinking about the problem. I don't think people are particularly good at thinking while also discussing/debating, but I also don't think I would have as quickly arrived at the better solutions without the ability to attentively observe the relevant discussions. If you're not even paying attention / thinking about anything relevant while in a meeting, your presence is a pointless waste of time and space and you should be doing something else.

whenchamenia 7y ago
I just read "I decided my ideas were so good I had no motivation to collaborate on a compromise with coworkers", so OP seems correct.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  In reference to my personal experience with meetings?