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There are so many parts involved with a traditional engine and transmission. Living in Michigan, there are lots of companies building these individual parts. I

There are so many parts involved with a traditional engine and transmission. Living in Michigan, there are lots of companies building these individual parts. I know a guy who works at a place that builds springs for transmissions (https://www.pjws.com/our-products/ https://www.pjws.com/our-products/) Valvetrain parts, pistons, rings, crankshafts, starters, heads, oil pumps, exhaust manifolds, mufflers, fuel injectors, sensors...none of this stuff is needed on an electric car. Hearing UAW members talk about the strike and concessions, they often say things like "they need to guarantee our jobs"...they know electric is coming. At the extreme you have factory workers who are just in denial. "How can electricity have more power than gas?" You can show them a video of a Tesla P100 racing a <insert_fast_car> and they will tell you to your face that it's fake and they don't believe it.

noobermin 7y ago
While I'm ignorant, why can't they just make other parts? If you have a lathe and a machine shop, you can make other pieces of metal instead of the pieces of metal you currently make.
- analog31 7y ago
  I've often heard a similar sentiment: "Why can't we just get everything 3-d printed?" The reason is that the specialized techniques often have cost and performance advantages, especially at higher production volumes, and can make use of materials that are better suited to the needs of the design. For instance, you could conceivably machine a spring from a piece of solid metal, but it would be quite expensive and wouldn't function very well as a spring. Despite general purpose programmable manufacturing technology, the majority of stuff made today avoids those techniques and is made by molding, casting, punching, forming, extruding, and so forth. I'm looking around me in my little office, and I don't think I see anything with a machined part in it.
  - noobermin 7y ago
    That sentiment underplays the general knowledge (more important) as well as generalized tools that even specialized shops have. It's not like pivoting is easy, it never is. I just don't think every shop has to vanish versus pivoting and finding another lane that fits the new demand. A change in the market landscape doesn't need to spell the end of all shops as we know it.
- bluedino 7y ago
  Why can't a software company just make other software? Why did WordPerfect go out of business when they could have just made games, and OS, or a web browser?
  - jayd16 7y ago
    Pretty sure the devs there did just go to other companies and make other software.
  - dmix 7y ago
    None of those people are demanding an industry guarantee their jobs. This is a valid question when the burden is being placed on the car companies to give them work, it’s fair to ask why they can’t find work regardless if they are skilled workers.
  - myself248 7y ago
    I suspect many of WordPerfect's employees did, in fact, go on to work as programmers writing other software.
  - JanisL 7y ago
    It's not easy to change directions. You may enjoy reading Andy Grove's writing about strategic inflection points, basically a description of what had to happen at Intel for them to transition from the memory market that they were struggling in to the microprocessor market.
  - nradov 7y ago
    WordPerfect didn't actually go out of business. They just lost most market share and were acquired cheaply by Corel.
- smilekzs 7y ago
  Most probably because the shop invested heavily in specialized machinery and tooling and processes and know-how to optimize production of some niche products with relatively stable demand, until now?
Merrill 7y ago
Apparently the auto manufacturers are doing their own designs, and at first glance, it would appear that they need some of the same metalworking skills as ICE engines. Although in setting up new lines, they are probably much more automated. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/17505/the-secrets-of-electric-cars-and-their-motors-its-not-all-about-the-battery-folks https://www.thedrive.com/tech/17505/the-secrets-of-electric-...
pro8ndi 7y ago
The extreme is an entire country unprepared to deal with the end of the emotional meme they’ve spent their lives soaking up. It’s pretty simple: Ownership is unwilling to spend on the mess their wealth relies on. The masses are too incapable of adaptation on their own, having been trained to fit radiators and hub caps, not participate in the political process. Adam Smith’s concern over extreme division of labor making the masses emotionally ignorant & complacent animals came true. There are few options. The country isn’t going to handle tens of thousands of laborers with 40+ years of life left in them mulling about. A new New Deal is in order. Social welfare work is about the only job left for the masses once automation is doing enough.
- steelframe 7y ago
  > A new New Deal is in order. Maaayyyyybe, but if it is, it won't become obvious until we've gone through a period of economic devastation similar to that of the Great Depression.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  > social welfare work Why require it to be work? Giving out a UBI would be more productive than inventing filler work.
  - ctdonath 7y ago
    Training people to expect sustenance for nothing is a disaster in the making.
- corey_moncure 7y ago
  >Social welfare work is about the only job left for the masses once automation is doing enough. I was thinking residential-scale agriculture but for the most part I agree with your conclusions. This doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. If all that's left to do is pick our own veggies from the fields, then we've won the game. Probably we can offset the use of environmentally toxic substances with all the extra labor we'll have. End stage capitalism may start to look a lot like communism in certain aspects.
- 7y ago
refurb 7y ago
The UAW has had job guarantees and “job banks” as a part of their contract negotiations for decades, it’s not new at all. Not disagreeing that electric cars concern them, but asking for job guarantees is not proof of it.
pgt 7y ago
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” — Upton Sinclair.
Shivetya 7y ago
It isn't just happening in the US, manufacturing of cars is going to be hard hit in other countries. EU manufacturers aren't exactly tripping over themselves to go EV, VW claims it is but looking at its schedule and its still damn slow. they have to answer to their unions who have board seats and the know that EVs will gut jobs. it will clobber more that just the manufacture of the cars and those jobs but also all the the third party parts suppliers will take a huge hit as the majority of their stocked parts are related to petrol engines and transmissions which have quite a few wear parts.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  > VW claims it is but looking at its schedule and its still damn slow. Is it? How many EV models will be available from Volkswagen next year?
clouddrover 7y ago
> At the extreme you have factory workers who are just in denial. "How can electricity have more power than gas?" This sounds more like mythology than reality. Can you show me some concrete examples of this to back your claim?

noobermin 7y ago

While I'm ignorant, why can't they just make other parts? If you have a lathe and a machine shop, you can make other pieces of metal instead of the pieces of metal you currently make.

analog31 7y ago
I've often heard a similar sentiment: "Why can't we just get everything 3-d printed?" The reason is that the specialized techniques often have cost and performance advantages, especially at higher production volumes, and can make use of materials that are better suited to the needs of the design. For instance, you could conceivably machine a spring from a piece of solid metal, but it would be quite expensive and wouldn't function very well as a spring. Despite general purpose programmable manufacturing technology, the majority of stuff made today avoids those techniques and is made by molding, casting, punching, forming, extruding, and so forth. I'm looking around me in my little office, and I don't think I see anything with a machined part in it.
- noobermin 7y ago
  That sentiment underplays the general knowledge (more important) as well as generalized tools that even specialized shops have. It's not like pivoting is easy, it never is. I just don't think every shop has to vanish versus pivoting and finding another lane that fits the new demand. A change in the market landscape doesn't need to spell the end of all shops as we know it.
bluedino 7y ago
Why can't a software company just make other software? Why did WordPerfect go out of business when they could have just made games, and OS, or a web browser?
- jayd16 7y ago
  Pretty sure the devs there did just go to other companies and make other software.
- dmix 7y ago
  None of those people are demanding an industry guarantee their jobs. This is a valid question when the burden is being placed on the car companies to give them work, it’s fair to ask why they can’t find work regardless if they are skilled workers.
- myself248 7y ago
  I suspect many of WordPerfect's employees did, in fact, go on to work as programmers writing other software.
- JanisL 7y ago
  It's not easy to change directions. You may enjoy reading Andy Grove's writing about strategic inflection points, basically a description of what had to happen at Intel for them to transition from the memory market that they were struggling in to the microprocessor market.
- nradov 7y ago
  WordPerfect didn't actually go out of business. They just lost most market share and were acquired cheaply by Corel.
smilekzs 7y ago
Most probably because the shop invested heavily in specialized machinery and tooling and processes and know-how to optimize production of some niche products with relatively stable demand, until now?

Merrill 7y ago

Apparently the auto manufacturers are doing their own designs, and at first glance, it would appear that they need some of the same metalworking skills as ICE engines. Although in setting up new lines, they are probably much more automated. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/17505/the-secrets-of-electric-cars-and-their-motors-its-not-all-about-the-battery-folks https://www.thedrive.com/tech/17505/the-secrets-of-electric-...

pro8ndi 7y ago

The extreme is an entire country unprepared to deal with the end of the emotional meme they’ve spent their lives soaking up. It’s pretty simple: Ownership is unwilling to spend on the mess their wealth relies on. The masses are too incapable of adaptation on their own, having been trained to fit radiators and hub caps, not participate in the political process. Adam Smith’s concern over extreme division of labor making the masses emotionally ignorant & complacent animals came true. There are few options. The country isn’t going to handle tens of thousands of laborers with 40+ years of life left in them mulling about. A new New Deal is in order. Social welfare work is about the only job left for the masses once automation is doing enough.

steelframe 7y ago
> A new New Deal is in order. Maaayyyyybe, but if it is, it won't become obvious until we've gone through a period of economic devastation similar to that of the Great Depression.
crooked-v 7y ago
> social welfare work Why require it to be work? Giving out a UBI would be more productive than inventing filler work.
- ctdonath 7y ago
  Training people to expect sustenance for nothing is a disaster in the making.
corey_moncure 7y ago
>Social welfare work is about the only job left for the masses once automation is doing enough. I was thinking residential-scale agriculture but for the most part I agree with your conclusions. This doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. If all that's left to do is pick our own veggies from the fields, then we've won the game. Probably we can offset the use of environmentally toxic substances with all the extra labor we'll have. End stage capitalism may start to look a lot like communism in certain aspects.
7y ago

refurb 7y ago

The UAW has had job guarantees and “job banks” as a part of their contract negotiations for decades, it’s not new at all. Not disagreeing that electric cars concern them, but asking for job guarantees is not proof of it.

pgt 7y ago

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” — Upton Sinclair.

Shivetya 7y ago

It isn't just happening in the US, manufacturing of cars is going to be hard hit in other countries. EU manufacturers aren't exactly tripping over themselves to go EV, VW claims it is but looking at its schedule and its still damn slow. they have to answer to their unions who have board seats and the know that EVs will gut jobs. it will clobber more that just the manufacture of the cars and those jobs but also all the the third party parts suppliers will take a huge hit as the majority of their stocked parts are related to petrol engines and transmissions which have quite a few wear parts.

clouddrover 7y ago
> VW claims it is but looking at its schedule and its still damn slow. Is it? How many EV models will be available from Volkswagen next year?

clouddrover 7y ago

> At the extreme you have factory workers who are just in denial. "How can electricity have more power than gas?" This sounds more like mythology than reality. Can you show me some concrete examples of this to back your claim?