10 ms·

Goodbye Facebook

233 points by nicholalexander 16y ago

ojbyrne 16y ago
My girlfriend also deleted her account immediately after watching the movie. If there's 2 people, there must be more.
- jbhelms 16y ago
  alas, for every person that delete their profiles there is another 2-3 that sign up. I am not saying that is sustainable, but they are growing. This is especially true in Asia where in the last 2 years has quadrupled.
  - beoba 16y ago
    It's easy to grow in percentage terms when you're starting from nothing.
    - dualogy 16y ago
      Um, still only for some values of "easy".
- golgo13 16y ago
  My dad (58) just signed up and I got the friend request Sunday night. Right now, his friends list consist of him and some guy in his computer class, and me. But in a few days, I know I'll get a friend request from my mom and some of my aunts. I'm pretty sure this thing is still growing.
smoyer 16y ago
Wow ... that makes me want to sign up with Facebook just so I can join the "delete my account" club.
- muppetman 16y ago
  Thank you! Why is it suddenly such a big thing to delete your Facebook account. Every week it seems like there's another one of these on the frontpage and that means people are voting them there. I'd really like to understand why that is? Everyone commenting here and on the blog post make out like it's such a huge deal. Really? Is it? Imagine if I wrote up a big "I closed my MySpace account" post. I'd be laughed out of town. Why's closing a Facebook account such a big deal? Just because it has more users? Good on the person for doing so, but do we all need to hold hands with them and pray? Because that what it seems like we're doing here. Google's got just as much, probably more, info on you. Everyone uses Gmail (why, I don't know) but you don't see people writing up big "I closed my Gmail account here's why" posts. Why not? Why is everyone so comfortable with Google knowing everything about their lives in email format? So I'm really curious: Why do these posts get voted up? Do people really think closing your Facebook account is THAT big of a deal?
  - smoyer 16y ago
    I always warn my kids that sarcasm (our family's primary humor) doesn't translate to the Internet, but you obviously heard it in my voice. I'm not a Facebook hater or a Facebook fan ... plenty of my friends are there, but there are hundreds of other ways to keep in touch with them (Jabber is everywhere). In any case, Facebook and to a large degree GMail are just not relevant for me. If they weren't there, or I felt compelled to abandon them for some reason, I wouldn't have a problem finding another way to contact them. So let's recognize that Facebook, Google and even Microsoft are young in comparisons to the average human's life-span. And when the next big thing comes along, we'll embrace it until temporarily too. One big caveat ... these companies build up customer good-will over longer or shorter periods of time and can persist until that reservoir is run dry. With a little care, that good-will can last a long time, so I'm not saying that Microsoft is in any danger as a company. But I do think they're past their heyday and will have to reduce their margins to keep business. Anyway, we're so conditioned to sign-up for a service at the drop of a hat that these services become "cheap" to us. They didn't cost us anything and they don't cost much to throw away. Look at the number of people who signed up for Hipster without knowing what it is. I think everything you've written is true EXCEPT, I suspect it's more common for users to simply abandon an account without closing it. I'd love to know what Facebook's churn is.
sudonim 16y ago
Facebook is an amazing product. However, the more facebook unravels their plans for the future, and the more we learn about their past, the less I trust them. We can write to hacker news with our articles, bitching and moaning about facebook, or quietly build an alternative social network with the values we want.
- sfphotoarts 16y ago
  Or, manage just fine having a real-life social network, and not feel the need to replicate it online.
- bad_user 16y ago
  Jacob: I'm kinda right in the middle of a thing right now, but can I text you later? Girl at Club: Can you what? Jacob: Are you online at all? Girl at Club: I have no idea what you're talking about. Jacob: How do I get a hold of you? Girl at Club: You come find me. Jacob: That sounds... exhausting.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  or quietly build an alternative social network with the values we want. There are quite a few of us doing just that. Here's my contribution: http://opensource.appleseedproject.org http://opensource.appleseedproject.org
stcredzero 16y ago
The degree to which China is not connected in the visualization at the bottom, I find worrisome. Why? Because connection and commerce are the true foundations of peace. By that thinking, visualization is not a good omen. (Maybe we should just chalk it up to language?)
- radq 16y ago
  Facebook isn't popular in China, apparently. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2002831 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2002831
- rationalbeaver 16y ago
  We should chalk it up to Facebook being blocked in China.
- anonymoushn 16y ago
  Facebook lost in China and Russia because other similar products were already established (and in Russia the product is pretty much better >_>). The regions aren't actually less connected socially, or if they are you can't tell by looking at Facebook's data.
  - kia 16y ago
    If you are talking about VKontakte in Russia, you are wrong. VKontakte (launched 2006) is a clone of Facebook (even the design is copied from FB). It's criticized in Russia for the same reasons as FB here. FB lost because VK was specifically targeted at Russian audience from the beginning.
    - naa42 16y ago
      Well, I can say that they've copied older version of facebook and it seems more convenient for some people. Also do not forget audio and video sharing applications. It is like Napster since it allows users to exchange their collections.
nhangen 16y ago
Strange, I was a FB hater until I watched the movie, at which point I wanted to find more reasons to like it (though the releasing of phone #'s and address data didn't help). My wife, on the other hand, liked Zuck less by the end of the movie, even though she knew it was mostly sensationalized. It still hasn't changed her FB behavior.
mdg 16y ago
This movie is not about Facebook. If you watch the behind-the-scenes documentary on the 2nd disk, they even tell you this. Facebook, in the context of this movie, was just a vessel to deliver a story about building something big and conflict. Much as a tortilla chip is a vessel for nacho cheese.
seanalltogether 16y ago
I don't believe that facebook is the technological fad that tech pundits want them to be. They have infected the infrastructure of the web in ways that livejournal and myspace never could.
- rapind 16y ago
  I agree, but I would add that they're overhyped as well. I think Facebook's value is somewhere in the middle between current expectations / valuations and a fad. So yes it's big, it will continue to be big, but it's not and never will be Google big. I could be completely wrong though considering the engineers who've left google for facebook, but then again, maybe that was just for a massive payout?
- ecounysis 16y ago
  I love your use of the word "infected" to describe this.
yuvadam 16y ago
This is a very important article. An eye opener. My takeaway is this - Facebook is the first web application that showed us how easy it is to connect to the people we love, as well as those we know, but do not care about. Facebook is the mere beginning of the way we will communicate in the future. It has its gripes, and people are starting to get bored with it ("ok so I friended her, now what?"). Nothing happens on Facebook. Facebook, in my opinion, will eventually fade, and make room for new models of human communication, ones which do give us an added benefit instead of poking and secretly stalking our ex-girlfriend.
- Tichy 16y ago
  "how easy it is to connect to the people we love" I think connecting to someone used to mean something different, although I am not sure what it was.
  - michaelchisari 16y ago
    It's interesting, because my interest and understanding of social network is that it's precisely for managing my distant relationships. People I went to high school with, people I worked with 5 years ago, my second cousins, people I somewhat know who I may need to contact at some point. People I'm close to, "the people I love", I've never had a problem keeping in touch with them. I have their number in my phone, I have their email address, I see them regularly, I know what they're up to, and how to contact them. That's never been a problem, and social networking hasn't really changed that for me.
  - yeahsure 16y ago
    Leaving a "happy birthday" used to mean you actually remember the date, not that you had a message requesting you to wish someone a happy birthday. The people I really care about get a phone call, not a dummy "wall post". Maybe I'm a bit of an antisocial, but I really liked the days before social networks. My friends where on my IM contact list, colleagues on forums or mailing lists.
    - pyre 16y ago
Tichy 16y ago
Maybe one day we'll hear something like this about Facebook, too: http://www.theonion.com/video/internet-archaeologists-find-ruins-of-friendster-c,14389/ http://www.theonion.com/video/internet-archaeologists-find-r...
motters 16y ago
There is perhaps some chance that I could be wrong due to the substantial inertia which Facebook has now accumulated, but I expect that it's just another fad which seems to be peaking if my spider-senses are correct. Facebook is not a particularly brilliant application and the amount of value it delivers is also not that great. If you're a Facebook user or addict, just pause for a moment and ask yourself how much actual value you're getting out of it relative to the time invested.
- brlewis 16y ago
  The brilliance of Facebook is that it draws in lots of users. Their funnel is amazing. The app at the bottom of that funnel isn't that great, but manages to deliver value because of the huge userbase.
  - motters 16y ago
    And this is also its weakness because if its only virtue is that it's "the cool place to hang out in cyberspace" then this is very vulnerable to changes in fashion (see MySpace/Second Life/LiveJournal/GeoCities).
    - jokermatt999 16y ago
      Except at this point your parents are on Facebook. They were never on MySpace/Second Life/LiveJournal/GeoCities. While some of its value is "the cool place", it's also the place a lot of my family's social events (birthday parties, etc) are announced. If my 23 year old cousin switches to HotNewSocialSite, she'd still have to be on Facebook to find out about Granddad's 90th birthday get together simply because that's how the word gets out now, for better or worse.
- edanm 16y ago
  Honestly? Facebook gives me a ton of value. I keep in closer contact than I otherwise would, with more people I care about. It's simply a more scalable means of keeping in touch with people. I find it odd that people say things like "that's what we have email and messenger and calendars and sms for". That's the point - I've replaced 5 programs with 1. I still use email and sms (messenger, not so much). But it's now all in one place, with all the people I care about right there, without having to start exchanging usernames.
rewind 16y ago
I find it humorous that there is such a need to DEFINE Facebook. It's different things to different people. We really don't need one definition of what it is or a nice tidy list of the ways people use it, what the benefits are, what the drawbacks are, etc. Every time I read about somebody complaining about Facebook, I usually just end up thinking "I don't use it (exactly) that way, so this doesn't (completely) apply to me." I have a lot of friends that I don't see more than once every year or two, but I will be close to them until the day I die. I like seeing their status updates, their vacation photos, their kids, etc. Facebook makes our connection stronger, not weaker. It doesn't replace the need to see them and talk to them; it makes those infrequent visits/conversations better when they happen because it feels like we haven't really been out of touch for so long.
- haraball 16y ago
  On the other hand, it also removes the need to contact that person since you already know all the latest news. I'm not comfortable in situations when I meet people I don't see often and they tell me things that I already know, and I have to pretend to not knowing it to avoid the stalkerish feeling it gives me.
  - glhaynes 16y ago
    I know the feeling. In that circumstance, since the person apparently wants to talk about that news, I try to find something to ask them about it that I don't already know the answer to. Which could even just be to ask them how they feel about that news (which can be in the form "I bet you're happy about that...", etc), since I don't usually know that. That way, they get to talk about what they want to talk about and I get to hear about things I don't already know. Whether to make it clear that I already knew the basics or not depends on the circumstance.
  - robryan 16y ago
    It's the issue with people putting a lot of stuff out there but expecting people to consume only the newest stuff and forget that anything older exists kind of like real life conversations drift from relevance over time as subjects change. Something like reading back through a few months of someones Facebook isn't really socially acceptable even though they are putting it all out there.
nervechannel 16y ago
SPOILER ALERTS please.
- simias 16y ago
  Do you want spoiler alerts on history books as well? :)
  - nervechannel 16y ago
    I went to an article on Facebook which starts off by explicitly discussing the portrayal of events in a movie I haven't seen yet (and intend to). How's that not a spoiler?
    - trotsky 16y ago
      The protagonist gets rich.
tarkin2 16y ago
I don't know. The author seems to think we'll become Zuckerberg's zombie army due to extended Facebook use. So was the same true of the time UseNet? MSN Messenger? And all those others when they were highly popular? Weren't we trapped in their creators' worlds? With before, when new tech comes along, with an interface, or "world" we prefer to use, then we'll move on. We'll interface with people on the web in a different way. Habits come and go.
- limmeau 16y ago
  Usenet is at least a decentralized thing owned by nobody and governed by a mixture of elected representatives and popular vote. Or was, back in the day. Therefore, usenet users weren't anybody's zombie army.
kunjaan 16y ago
Does anyone else avoid Facebook because they themselves suck as person? I don't use FB because the activities on it are things I am better off not doing. I felt strange doing anything on it because I felt people were judging me. It was like I had developed this persona of an educated and successful and fun person when I was on it because I hadn't made any new "friends" since beginning grad school and I was so stressed out, miserable and broke that I was never brave enough to admit it on my own. After surfing through the countless photos of my friend's girlfriend or my ex gf, I honestly used to feel guilty with the voyeurism. I use to feel hurt seeing my ex gf happy, lonely seeing old friends enjoying themselves, smirk seeing my friend do something stupid. I hated when people tagged me for the same reasons. I wasted tons of time friending people I would not even wish birthday. I spent countless awkward chat conversations that never went beyond "I had a great day". I spent useless time tweaking my photos and wall so that my family wouldn't see the language that I or my friends were using. I tried to post Go's result on my wall. It became less of enjoying the game than to acquire certain points so that I could post them on my wall. I logged into Facebook when I didnt have anything to do, which happened a lot. I used to open Facebook like I opened my email and reddit. After a while I just felt too shitty. I deleted the account. I share photos through Flickr. Not all my friends are there but those who are have taught me a lot about taking photographs. I joined Blip.fm. Not all my friends are there but those who are truly share the passion I have for music. I deleted all my contacts in the messenger and added only those that I truly feel comfortable talking to. My girlfriend calls me anti social. But she too has come to accept that Facebook is prone to our weakest traits as humans. We love attentions. We love to think of ourselves as something we want to be. We trade our true feelings to be included. We want to be popular. We want our taste in music and art to be value. We crave for external success. It was like high school all over again.
- sudont 16y ago
  Ok, so I did the same thing as you (delete facebook), but you're wrong in thinking that you're not anti-social by avoiding Facebook. Antisocial behavior is defined as "behaviour that lacks consideration for others and that may cause damage to society" Because literally everyone else in your social circle is on Facebook, you're actually forcing them to go out of their way to interact with you, something that fits the definition to a T. Facebook is the preferred method of communication for most people, and if you're ignoring this and forcing people to conform, they'll resent it. Every interaction with you, therefore, has to be on your terms, instead of the agreed-upon social norms (therefore, not considering others).
gabea 16y ago
I too struggle with the idea of what Facebook has become and currently is, just like many others. However, I cannot help but feel that anyone who speaks against Facebook is simply jealous that they could not fit 500 million+ users into their own representation of social interactions taken online. Facebook just like many of it's predecessors (hotOrNot.com,addictinggames.com, forumns, aol instant messenger) has combined the best features of these already existent sites into a single trustworthy one. You no longer have to scour the internet to obtain the pleasure that these type of sites produced. It is this concept of entertainment that makes Facebook what it is today. A single source of entertainment, and a place to peak deeper into the lives of those around you with or without participating in those lives. As with many different forms of entertainment if you indulge too deeply you are consumed by your indulgence. For the time being Facebook has a place on the internet. Will it be a main stay for years to come? Well that is very hard to predict. I truly believe Facebook's biggest internet value add will come in the form of an online digital pass. I feel those leading Facebook's directions also believe that too. If they can satisfy the majority of its users basic desire for entertainment, continue to build out the graph API, and keep giving more reasons for businesses to utilize the graph API then soon enough Facebook will will realize what Microsoft never was able to with the Microsoft Passport from the Internets early days.
phwd 16y ago
It is great that he has come to his conclusion on whether he should delete or not. Though... I see the movie for what it is ... just a movie intended to inspire or incite dislike , how much of it is in line with facts who knows ( e.g. where was Adam D’Angelo ?) . To use it as any part of the deletion decision making process does not seem right and seems that maybe the approach/reason for joining the social network was not the correct one. For me this means losing years worth of photos, messages, events that I went to ... I lived my life through facebook and I didn't have to write a single word in a journal. With the new messaging platform http://www.facebook.com/about/messages/ http://www.facebook.com/about/messages/ and personal email address contact with friends and acquaintances are now possible without wall posts. In 2005-2006 (I just started at McGill) when it was still within campuses it was like wild fire and when I watched the movie , I completely related and recalled sitting down with room-mates and class-mates browsing dozens of girls in the school. There were no games just mainly wall posts and photos. You cannot relate that to now ... it is just not equivalent. Privacy was the same back then as it is now... people are just more aware of it or they grew older and understood the effects it wil have with their jobs, lives etc. > What we actually want to do is the bare minimum, just like any nineteen-year-old college boy who’d rather be doing something else, or nothing. Yes Zadie Smith is right ... this was never meant for the old folks (no offense), when it started those are the only people there were 18-22 year old college students looking for the bare minimum. Times are changing though and these kids start to grow up, thus changes to try to satisfy all. But to me it seems harder and harder to define. Russia has Vkontakte Japan has Mixi So hopefully the author finds what he is looking for. I would start by just picking up the phone and calling someone. That is my Dad's way of keeping up with his social network. After he finishes work everyday, he has a 5-10 convo with his old friends and co-workers. Sometimes he even visits... (It is a no-brainer but somehow these days people find this hard to do) > 500 million sentient people entrapped in the recent careless thoughts of a Harvard sophomore Is a 26 year old billionaire in charge of a 500 M network something someone would want to fail ? Are the 2000 or so employees that work there doing it for the vision of Zuckerburg? Is jealousy that strong ? I dont want it to fail. I want to be some percentage of whatever he is when I reach 26 not by personality but achievement. Why should I wait for maturity to achieve things, I want to fall, get back up, fall and fall some more if it means I reach closer to what he did (no matter how simple the idea was). It is as if he is not allowed to mature or people are still looking at him as a sophomore that sent those sms messages. He does get assistance from his COO Sheryl Sandberg http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/business/03face.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/business/03face.html so maybe back in creation the site was a reflection of the immature sophomore but now it is something different.
idm 16y ago
Not a single comment on that great blog post. Where is the discussion? In a vibrant community like Hacker News. Facebook has something valuable... we've already logged in, so there's no barrier to making a comment that is voiced from our own identity. Fewer clicks, no barriers, and boom - the comment is public. But Hacker News does that for me, since I have a long-lasting cookie that I don't clear... hence this comment... and nothing "social" happening on that blog. Interesting.
- nicholalexander 16y ago
  My fault, I just approved all the comments I received, even the ones that disagree with me. I'm so happy to have had such a response to this!
  - idm 16y ago
    Doh! :) Nice article!
flurie 16y ago
Few people seem to entertain options between Facebook addiction and account deletion. I have a simple practical use for it: easy access to acquaintances. Here's a recent story I can share. I was on vacation in DC with friends, and I walked right past a girl I was certain was a friend of mine from college. I found her number on Facebook, sent her a text, and found out that it was her. We met up for drinks the next evening. Do we chat regularly as a result of having met up? No, but we enjoyed reminiscing and sharing our stories.
wildmXranat 16y ago
I tweeted the fact that my blog about quitting Facebook has been published. So meta that it hurts. This article amounts to a wisp of air amongst a wind of change. It's a tad late, but better late than never. Some users of Facebook will never quit. It's a realization that permeated Facebook's offices for a long time and these are the users that just don't care period. With blinders on, they will obey the rules, and let their online privacy erode. What's more important, and the conversation that we should be having: where to go next? What's our collective need that an online network can fulfill ? Maybe it's not online and in fact, going backwards is the new cool. Who knows?
chriseidhof 16y ago
I quit Facebook about half a year ago and I find it very refreshing. It's too bad I miss some events, but it is so relaxing. No longer do I have to think with every picture: this would be good for Facebook. No longer do I spend hours looking at pictures of people I don't know. No longer is my private information shared. Finally: when I meet people, I can tell a story without having to hear: "yeah, I read it on Facebook".
dstein 16y ago
What is starting to really irk me about Facebook is how birthdays are handled. It's like the site is basically one big happy birthday wish site. Each day it's somebody else's birthday and all their friends take turns trying to write a somewhat unique birthday wish, like: Friend #1: Happy Birthday! Friend #2: HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUDE!! Friend #3: happy b-day! Friend #4: Have a wonderful birthday! And it goes on and on down the list. Some unfortunate people feel the need to individually reply to each and every birthday wish. Each day it's like this for a different person, until once a year when it's your birthday and then everyone's doing it to you. It's really, really stupid. And I wish there was just a way for me to automatically generate and deliver my friends a birthday wish on the right date. But the Facebook API prevents you from being able to post to your friends wall. Tear down those garden walls Mr. Zuckerberg!!
- maxawaytoolong 16y ago
  To each his own. Personally, the birthday reminders are the only reason I use Facebook. Also, each year, every attractive woman I've met in the past 4 years wishes me happy birthday, which is a nice ego boost.
- _fool 16y ago
  my solution: don't read other peoples' status updates, don't have your birthday posted publicly, don't get annoyed.
- c3o 16y ago
  It's not like you don't have control over your participation in this silly ritual... I think automating a meaningless post would be the wrong way to go. I try to write thoughtful, detailed birthday messages for people who really mean something to me, ignore birthday notifications of more casual friends and temporarily hide my own birthday when it's getting close to prevent the avalanche of hollow wishes.
dusklight 16y ago
This article is illogical. Saying that facebook connects people only in ways limited by the imagination if its creators is true. But still, it CONNECTS PEOPLE. By deleting facebook without finding a replacement that is better than facebook, you are losing this new way of connecting people. Stuff like skype works for connecting with a relatively small social circle. Facebook allows a looser but also much larger circle. Presumably a better means of communication will come along sooner or later. The telephone replaced the telegraph, myspace replaced friendster, but until it comes along facebook(twitter?) is still the best means for this new large scale high volume asynchronous communication that we have.
al3x 16y ago
I found it funny that the author quoted the bit in the Zadie Smith piece about the absurdity of the Facebook format right before you reach the end of his post, complete with tags and permalinks. I'm not a Facebook fan, but I don't know that is does worse than most technology at being humane.
wippler 16y ago
Why do these facebook account deletion articles always have to be either "addiction" or "deletion". Regarding the article, its kinda stupid to generalize that we are all living in the world with rules set by Mark, if I take that generalization much further we are living in the real world with rules set by people higher up in the chain. But thats not true as you can see that lot of people around you behave/act differently to these things. Biggest takeaway for me from the article is that enormous amount of time, thought spent on yet another communication medium in evolving world. I have to wonder how scared people were when they first saw email!!
AppDev054 16y ago
Interesting that the comments so far (69) are mostly a comparison of value vs risk. If you get enough value out of Facebook, it is worth the risk, otherwise it is quickly discarded.
igravious 16y ago
Zadie Smith is one of my favorite authors. She has a jaw-droppingly gorgeous prose style. It would be nice (for someone) to link to her article (so I will) that prompted this dude to delete his account. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generation-why/ http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generat... Her insights and arguments really needs to be read by everyone of our generation in full, and I mean that in all sincerity. It articulates all the misgivings and worries I have about this phenomenon that has always left a slightly bad taste in my mouth and felt vaguely repellent. In addendum: I pray for the day I can convert my thoughts into words as judiciously and compellingly, verily I would sell my soul for that knack.
narrator 16y ago
I only post stuff to Facebook that I would tell any random stranger, like I had a good trip somewhere or I read a good book or I saw a movie. Even if I was convinced of the privacy of that site, I still want there to be a bit of mystery.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
scotch_drinker 16y ago
I wonder if there isn't a correlation amongst Facebook users that falls along introvert-extrovert lines. Specifically, I wonder if introverts aren't more likely to be disappointed with their experiences with Facebook because they crave deep, interpersonal relationships with fewer people while extroverts are satisfied with Facebook because it allows them to keep up to date with hundreds of people. I find that I regularly check Facebook and am regularly disappointed with what I encounter there both as it relates to the activities of my friends and their responses to my activities. I tend to want deeper feedback and discussion which clearly isn't the model for Facebook. Whereas I know plenty of extrovert friends who love Facebook, are constantly checking in and because they have hundreds of friends, are constantly validated. Certainly this is all anecdotal and biased given that I'm strongly introverted but every time I see someone say they are giving up Facebook or are disappointed in it (including myself), it seems to me that person is most likely introverted and thus not well served by the end goals of Facebook.
alsocasey 16y ago
The far more substantial commentary by Zaddie Smith (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generation-why/?pagination=false&printpage=true http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generat...), which the author refers to a few times should really have been the article linked. The author's entire point is much more eloquently made by the original.
pkuhad 16y ago
The circulation of current generation after two or three years, who is more into facebook right now, will come to know it is sucking them, there is nothing which adds something into them apart from being cluttered forcefully in so called 'social' stuffs.
shankx 16y ago
We all love to hate Facebook but cannot deny the fact that it has become a part of our lives.

Goodbye Facebook

ojbyrne 16y ago

My girlfriend also deleted her account immediately after watching the movie. If there's 2 people, there must be more.

jbhelms 16y ago
alas, for every person that delete their profiles there is another 2-3 that sign up. I am not saying that is sustainable, but they are growing. This is especially true in Asia where in the last 2 years has quadrupled.
- beoba 16y ago
  It's easy to grow in percentage terms when you're starting from nothing.
  - dualogy 16y ago
    Um, still only for some values of "easy".
golgo13 16y ago
My dad (58) just signed up and I got the friend request Sunday night. Right now, his friends list consist of him and some guy in his computer class, and me. But in a few days, I know I'll get a friend request from my mom and some of my aunts. I'm pretty sure this thing is still growing.

smoyer 16y ago

Wow ... that makes me want to sign up with Facebook just so I can join the "delete my account" club.

muppetman 16y ago
Thank you! Why is it suddenly such a big thing to delete your Facebook account. Every week it seems like there's another one of these on the frontpage and that means people are voting them there. I'd really like to understand why that is? Everyone commenting here and on the blog post make out like it's such a huge deal. Really? Is it? Imagine if I wrote up a big "I closed my MySpace account" post. I'd be laughed out of town. Why's closing a Facebook account such a big deal? Just because it has more users? Good on the person for doing so, but do we all need to hold hands with them and pray? Because that what it seems like we're doing here. Google's got just as much, probably more, info on you. Everyone uses Gmail (why, I don't know) but you don't see people writing up big "I closed my Gmail account here's why" posts. Why not? Why is everyone so comfortable with Google knowing everything about their lives in email format? So I'm really curious: Why do these posts get voted up? Do people really think closing your Facebook account is THAT big of a deal?
- smoyer 16y ago
  I always warn my kids that sarcasm (our family's primary humor) doesn't translate to the Internet, but you obviously heard it in my voice. I'm not a Facebook hater or a Facebook fan ... plenty of my friends are there, but there are hundreds of other ways to keep in touch with them (Jabber is everywhere). In any case, Facebook and to a large degree GMail are just not relevant for me. If they weren't there, or I felt compelled to abandon them for some reason, I wouldn't have a problem finding another way to contact them. So let's recognize that Facebook, Google and even Microsoft are young in comparisons to the average human's life-span. And when the next big thing comes along, we'll embrace it until temporarily too. One big caveat ... these companies build up customer good-will over longer or shorter periods of time and can persist until that reservoir is run dry. With a little care, that good-will can last a long time, so I'm not saying that Microsoft is in any danger as a company. But I do think they're past their heyday and will have to reduce their margins to keep business. Anyway, we're so conditioned to sign-up for a service at the drop of a hat that these services become "cheap" to us. They didn't cost us anything and they don't cost much to throw away. Look at the number of people who signed up for Hipster without knowing what it is. I think everything you've written is true EXCEPT, I suspect it's more common for users to simply abandon an account without closing it. I'd love to know what Facebook's churn is.

sudonim 16y ago

Facebook is an amazing product. However, the more facebook unravels their plans for the future, and the more we learn about their past, the less I trust them. We can write to hacker news with our articles, bitching and moaning about facebook, or quietly build an alternative social network with the values we want.

sfphotoarts 16y ago
Or, manage just fine having a real-life social network, and not feel the need to replicate it online.
bad_user 16y ago
Jacob: I'm kinda right in the middle of a thing right now, but can I text you later? Girl at Club: Can you what? Jacob: Are you online at all? Girl at Club: I have no idea what you're talking about. Jacob: How do I get a hold of you? Girl at Club: You come find me. Jacob: That sounds... exhausting.
michaelchisari 16y ago
or quietly build an alternative social network with the values we want. There are quite a few of us doing just that. Here's my contribution: http://opensource.appleseedproject.org http://opensource.appleseedproject.org

stcredzero 16y ago

The degree to which China is not connected in the visualization at the bottom, I find worrisome. Why? Because connection and commerce are the true foundations of peace. By that thinking, visualization is not a good omen. (Maybe we should just chalk it up to language?)

radq 16y ago
Facebook isn't popular in China, apparently. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2002831 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2002831
rationalbeaver 16y ago
We should chalk it up to Facebook being blocked in China.
anonymoushn 16y ago
Facebook lost in China and Russia because other similar products were already established (and in Russia the product is pretty much better >_>). The regions aren't actually less connected socially, or if they are you can't tell by looking at Facebook's data.
- kia 16y ago
  If you are talking about VKontakte in Russia, you are wrong. VKontakte (launched 2006) is a clone of Facebook (even the design is copied from FB). It's criticized in Russia for the same reasons as FB here. FB lost because VK was specifically targeted at Russian audience from the beginning.
  - naa42 16y ago
    Well, I can say that they've copied older version of facebook and it seems more convenient for some people. Also do not forget audio and video sharing applications. It is like Napster since it allows users to exchange their collections.

nhangen 16y ago

Strange, I was a FB hater until I watched the movie, at which point I wanted to find more reasons to like it (though the releasing of phone #'s and address data didn't help). My wife, on the other hand, liked Zuck less by the end of the movie, even though she knew it was mostly sensationalized. It still hasn't changed her FB behavior.

mdg 16y ago

This movie is not about Facebook. If you watch the behind-the-scenes documentary on the 2nd disk, they even tell you this. Facebook, in the context of this movie, was just a vessel to deliver a story about building something big and conflict. Much as a tortilla chip is a vessel for nacho cheese.

seanalltogether 16y ago

I don't believe that facebook is the technological fad that tech pundits want them to be. They have infected the infrastructure of the web in ways that livejournal and myspace never could.

rapind 16y ago
I agree, but I would add that they're overhyped as well. I think Facebook's value is somewhere in the middle between current expectations / valuations and a fad. So yes it's big, it will continue to be big, but it's not and never will be Google big. I could be completely wrong though considering the engineers who've left google for facebook, but then again, maybe that was just for a massive payout?
ecounysis 16y ago
I love your use of the word "infected" to describe this.

yuvadam 16y ago

This is a very important article. An eye opener. My takeaway is this - Facebook is the first web application that showed us how easy it is to connect to the people we love, as well as those we know, but do not care about. Facebook is the mere beginning of the way we will communicate in the future. It has its gripes, and people are starting to get bored with it ("ok so I friended her, now what?"). Nothing happens on Facebook. Facebook, in my opinion, will eventually fade, and make room for new models of human communication, ones which do give us an added benefit instead of poking and secretly stalking our ex-girlfriend.

Tichy 16y ago
"how easy it is to connect to the people we love" I think connecting to someone used to mean something different, although I am not sure what it was.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  It's interesting, because my interest and understanding of social network is that it's precisely for managing my distant relationships. People I went to high school with, people I worked with 5 years ago, my second cousins, people I somewhat know who I may need to contact at some point. People I'm close to, "the people I love", I've never had a problem keeping in touch with them. I have their number in my phone, I have their email address, I see them regularly, I know what they're up to, and how to contact them. That's never been a problem, and social networking hasn't really changed that for me.
- yeahsure 16y ago
  Leaving a "happy birthday" used to mean you actually remember the date, not that you had a message requesting you to wish someone a happy birthday. The people I really care about get a phone call, not a dummy "wall post". Maybe I'm a bit of an antisocial, but I really liked the days before social networks. My friends where on my IM contact list, colleagues on forums or mailing lists.
  - pyre 16y ago

Tichy 16y ago

Maybe one day we'll hear something like this about Facebook, too: http://www.theonion.com/video/internet-archaeologists-find-ruins-of-friendster-c,14389/ http://www.theonion.com/video/internet-archaeologists-find-r...

motters 16y ago

There is perhaps some chance that I could be wrong due to the substantial inertia which Facebook has now accumulated, but I expect that it's just another fad which seems to be peaking if my spider-senses are correct. Facebook is not a particularly brilliant application and the amount of value it delivers is also not that great. If you're a Facebook user or addict, just pause for a moment and ask yourself how much actual value you're getting out of it relative to the time invested.

brlewis 16y ago
The brilliance of Facebook is that it draws in lots of users. Their funnel is amazing. The app at the bottom of that funnel isn't that great, but manages to deliver value because of the huge userbase.
- motters 16y ago
  And this is also its weakness because if its only virtue is that it's "the cool place to hang out in cyberspace" then this is very vulnerable to changes in fashion (see MySpace/Second Life/LiveJournal/GeoCities).
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    Except at this point your parents are on Facebook. They were never on MySpace/Second Life/LiveJournal/GeoCities. While some of its value is "the cool place", it's also the place a lot of my family's social events (birthday parties, etc) are announced. If my 23 year old cousin switches to HotNewSocialSite, she'd still have to be on Facebook to find out about Granddad's 90th birthday get together simply because that's how the word gets out now, for better or worse.
edanm 16y ago
Honestly? Facebook gives me a ton of value. I keep in closer contact than I otherwise would, with more people I care about. It's simply a more scalable means of keeping in touch with people. I find it odd that people say things like "that's what we have email and messenger and calendars and sms for". That's the point - I've replaced 5 programs with 1. I still use email and sms (messenger, not so much). But it's now all in one place, with all the people I care about right there, without having to start exchanging usernames.

rewind 16y ago

I find it humorous that there is such a need to DEFINE Facebook. It's different things to different people. We really don't need one definition of what it is or a nice tidy list of the ways people use it, what the benefits are, what the drawbacks are, etc. Every time I read about somebody complaining about Facebook, I usually just end up thinking "I don't use it (exactly) that way, so this doesn't (completely) apply to me." I have a lot of friends that I don't see more than once every year or two, but I will be close to them until the day I die. I like seeing their status updates, their vacation photos, their kids, etc. Facebook makes our connection stronger, not weaker. It doesn't replace the need to see them and talk to them; it makes those infrequent visits/conversations better when they happen because it feels like we haven't really been out of touch for so long.

haraball 16y ago
On the other hand, it also removes the need to contact that person since you already know all the latest news. I'm not comfortable in situations when I meet people I don't see often and they tell me things that I already know, and I have to pretend to not knowing it to avoid the stalkerish feeling it gives me.
- glhaynes 16y ago
  I know the feeling. In that circumstance, since the person apparently wants to talk about that news, I try to find something to ask them about it that I don't already know the answer to. Which could even just be to ask them how they feel about that news (which can be in the form "I bet you're happy about that...", etc), since I don't usually know that. That way, they get to talk about what they want to talk about and I get to hear about things I don't already know. Whether to make it clear that I already knew the basics or not depends on the circumstance.
- robryan 16y ago
  It's the issue with people putting a lot of stuff out there but expecting people to consume only the newest stuff and forget that anything older exists kind of like real life conversations drift from relevance over time as subjects change. Something like reading back through a few months of someones Facebook isn't really socially acceptable even though they are putting it all out there.

nervechannel 16y ago

SPOILER ALERTS please.

simias 16y ago
Do you want spoiler alerts on history books as well? :)
- nervechannel 16y ago
  I went to an article on Facebook which starts off by explicitly discussing the portrayal of events in a movie I haven't seen yet (and intend to). How's that not a spoiler?
  - trotsky 16y ago
    The protagonist gets rich.

tarkin2 16y ago

I don't know. The author seems to think we'll become Zuckerberg's zombie army due to extended Facebook use. So was the same true of the time UseNet? MSN Messenger? And all those others when they were highly popular? Weren't we trapped in their creators' worlds? With before, when new tech comes along, with an interface, or "world" we prefer to use, then we'll move on. We'll interface with people on the web in a different way. Habits come and go.

limmeau 16y ago
Usenet is at least a decentralized thing owned by nobody and governed by a mixture of elected representatives and popular vote. Or was, back in the day. Therefore, usenet users weren't anybody's zombie army.

kunjaan 16y ago

Does anyone else avoid Facebook because they themselves suck as person? I don't use FB because the activities on it are things I am better off not doing. I felt strange doing anything on it because I felt people were judging me. It was like I had developed this persona of an educated and successful and fun person when I was on it because I hadn't made any new "friends" since beginning grad school and I was so stressed out, miserable and broke that I was never brave enough to admit it on my own. After surfing through the countless photos of my friend's girlfriend or my ex gf, I honestly used to feel guilty with the voyeurism. I use to feel hurt seeing my ex gf happy, lonely seeing old friends enjoying themselves, smirk seeing my friend do something stupid. I hated when people tagged me for the same reasons. I wasted tons of time friending people I would not even wish birthday. I spent countless awkward chat conversations that never went beyond "I had a great day". I spent useless time tweaking my photos and wall so that my family wouldn't see the language that I or my friends were using. I tried to post Go's result on my wall. It became less of enjoying the game than to acquire certain points so that I could post them on my wall. I logged into Facebook when I didnt have anything to do, which happened a lot. I used to open Facebook like I opened my email and reddit. After a while I just felt too shitty. I deleted the account. I share photos through Flickr. Not all my friends are there but those who are have taught me a lot about taking photographs. I joined Blip.fm. Not all my friends are there but those who are truly share the passion I have for music. I deleted all my contacts in the messenger and added only those that I truly feel comfortable talking to. My girlfriend calls me anti social. But she too has come to accept that Facebook is prone to our weakest traits as humans. We love attentions. We love to think of ourselves as something we want to be. We trade our true feelings to be included. We want to be popular. We want our taste in music and art to be value. We crave for external success. It was like high school all over again.

sudont 16y ago
Ok, so I did the same thing as you (delete facebook), but you're wrong in thinking that you're not anti-social by avoiding Facebook. Antisocial behavior is defined as "behaviour that lacks consideration for others and that may cause damage to society" Because literally everyone else in your social circle is on Facebook, you're actually forcing them to go out of their way to interact with you, something that fits the definition to a T. Facebook is the preferred method of communication for most people, and if you're ignoring this and forcing people to conform, they'll resent it. Every interaction with you, therefore, has to be on your terms, instead of the agreed-upon social norms (therefore, not considering others).

gabea 16y ago

I too struggle with the idea of what Facebook has become and currently is, just like many others. However, I cannot help but feel that anyone who speaks against Facebook is simply jealous that they could not fit 500 million+ users into their own representation of social interactions taken online. Facebook just like many of it's predecessors (hotOrNot.com,addictinggames.com, forumns, aol instant messenger) has combined the best features of these already existent sites into a single trustworthy one. You no longer have to scour the internet to obtain the pleasure that these type of sites produced. It is this concept of entertainment that makes Facebook what it is today. A single source of entertainment, and a place to peak deeper into the lives of those around you with or without participating in those lives. As with many different forms of entertainment if you indulge too deeply you are consumed by your indulgence. For the time being Facebook has a place on the internet. Will it be a main stay for years to come? Well that is very hard to predict. I truly believe Facebook's biggest internet value add will come in the form of an online digital pass. I feel those leading Facebook's directions also believe that too. If they can satisfy the majority of its users basic desire for entertainment, continue to build out the graph API, and keep giving more reasons for businesses to utilize the graph API then soon enough Facebook will will realize what Microsoft never was able to with the Microsoft Passport from the Internets early days.

phwd 16y ago

It is great that he has come to his conclusion on whether he should delete or not. Though... I see the movie for what it is ... just a movie intended to inspire or incite dislike , how much of it is in line with facts who knows ( e.g. where was Adam D’Angelo ?) . To use it as any part of the deletion decision making process does not seem right and seems that maybe the approach/reason for joining the social network was not the correct one. For me this means losing years worth of photos, messages, events that I went to ... I lived my life through facebook and I didn't have to write a single word in a journal. With the new messaging platform http://www.facebook.com/about/messages/ http://www.facebook.com/about/messages/ and personal email address contact with friends and acquaintances are now possible without wall posts. In 2005-2006 (I just started at McGill) when it was still within campuses it was like wild fire and when I watched the movie , I completely related and recalled sitting down with room-mates and class-mates browsing dozens of girls in the school. There were no games just mainly wall posts and photos. You cannot relate that to now ... it is just not equivalent. Privacy was the same back then as it is now... people are just more aware of it or they grew older and understood the effects it wil have with their jobs, lives etc. > What we actually want to do is the bare minimum, just like any nineteen-year-old college boy who’d rather be doing something else, or nothing. Yes Zadie Smith is right ... this was never meant for the old folks (no offense), when it started those are the only people there were 18-22 year old college students looking for the bare minimum. Times are changing though and these kids start to grow up, thus changes to try to satisfy all. But to me it seems harder and harder to define. Russia has Vkontakte Japan has Mixi So hopefully the author finds what he is looking for. I would start by just picking up the phone and calling someone. That is my Dad's way of keeping up with his social network. After he finishes work everyday, he has a 5-10 convo with his old friends and co-workers. Sometimes he even visits... (It is a no-brainer but somehow these days people find this hard to do) > 500 million sentient people entrapped in the recent careless thoughts of a Harvard sophomore Is a 26 year old billionaire in charge of a 500 M network something someone would want to fail ? Are the 2000 or so employees that work there doing it for the vision of Zuckerburg? Is jealousy that strong ? I dont want it to fail. I want to be some percentage of whatever he is when I reach 26 not by personality but achievement. Why should I wait for maturity to achieve things, I want to fall, get back up, fall and fall some more if it means I reach closer to what he did (no matter how simple the idea was). It is as if he is not allowed to mature or people are still looking at him as a sophomore that sent those sms messages. He does get assistance from his COO Sheryl Sandberg http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/business/03face.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/business/03face.html so maybe back in creation the site was a reflection of the immature sophomore but now it is something different.

idm 16y ago

Not a single comment on that great blog post. Where is the discussion? In a vibrant community like Hacker News. Facebook has something valuable... we've already logged in, so there's no barrier to making a comment that is voiced from our own identity. Fewer clicks, no barriers, and boom - the comment is public. But Hacker News does that for me, since I have a long-lasting cookie that I don't clear... hence this comment... and nothing "social" happening on that blog. Interesting.

nicholalexander 16y ago
My fault, I just approved all the comments I received, even the ones that disagree with me. I'm so happy to have had such a response to this!
- idm 16y ago
  Doh! :) Nice article!

flurie 16y ago

Few people seem to entertain options between Facebook addiction and account deletion. I have a simple practical use for it: easy access to acquaintances. Here's a recent story I can share. I was on vacation in DC with friends, and I walked right past a girl I was certain was a friend of mine from college. I found her number on Facebook, sent her a text, and found out that it was her. We met up for drinks the next evening. Do we chat regularly as a result of having met up? No, but we enjoyed reminiscing and sharing our stories.

wildmXranat 16y ago

I tweeted the fact that my blog about quitting Facebook has been published. So meta that it hurts. This article amounts to a wisp of air amongst a wind of change. It's a tad late, but better late than never. Some users of Facebook will never quit. It's a realization that permeated Facebook's offices for a long time and these are the users that just don't care period. With blinders on, they will obey the rules, and let their online privacy erode. What's more important, and the conversation that we should be having: where to go next? What's our collective need that an online network can fulfill ? Maybe it's not online and in fact, going backwards is the new cool. Who knows?

chriseidhof 16y ago

I quit Facebook about half a year ago and I find it very refreshing. It's too bad I miss some events, but it is so relaxing. No longer do I have to think with every picture: this would be good for Facebook. No longer do I spend hours looking at pictures of people I don't know. No longer is my private information shared. Finally: when I meet people, I can tell a story without having to hear: "yeah, I read it on Facebook".

dstein 16y ago

What is starting to really irk me about Facebook is how birthdays are handled. It's like the site is basically one big happy birthday wish site. Each day it's somebody else's birthday and all their friends take turns trying to write a somewhat unique birthday wish, like: Friend #1: Happy Birthday! Friend #2: HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUDE!! Friend #3: happy b-day! Friend #4: Have a wonderful birthday! And it goes on and on down the list. Some unfortunate people feel the need to individually reply to each and every birthday wish. Each day it's like this for a different person, until once a year when it's your birthday and then everyone's doing it to you. It's really, really stupid. And I wish there was just a way for me to automatically generate and deliver my friends a birthday wish on the right date. But the Facebook API prevents you from being able to post to your friends wall. Tear down those garden walls Mr. Zuckerberg!!

maxawaytoolong 16y ago
To each his own. Personally, the birthday reminders are the only reason I use Facebook. Also, each year, every attractive woman I've met in the past 4 years wishes me happy birthday, which is a nice ego boost.
_fool 16y ago
my solution: don't read other peoples' status updates, don't have your birthday posted publicly, don't get annoyed.
c3o 16y ago
It's not like you don't have control over your participation in this silly ritual... I think automating a meaningless post would be the wrong way to go. I try to write thoughtful, detailed birthday messages for people who really mean something to me, ignore birthday notifications of more casual friends and temporarily hide my own birthday when it's getting close to prevent the avalanche of hollow wishes.

dusklight 16y ago

This article is illogical. Saying that facebook connects people only in ways limited by the imagination if its creators is true. But still, it CONNECTS PEOPLE. By deleting facebook without finding a replacement that is better than facebook, you are losing this new way of connecting people. Stuff like skype works for connecting with a relatively small social circle. Facebook allows a looser but also much larger circle. Presumably a better means of communication will come along sooner or later. The telephone replaced the telegraph, myspace replaced friendster, but until it comes along facebook(twitter?) is still the best means for this new large scale high volume asynchronous communication that we have.

al3x 16y ago

I found it funny that the author quoted the bit in the Zadie Smith piece about the absurdity of the Facebook format right before you reach the end of his post, complete with tags and permalinks. I'm not a Facebook fan, but I don't know that is does worse than most technology at being humane.

wippler 16y ago

Why do these facebook account deletion articles always have to be either "addiction" or "deletion". Regarding the article, its kinda stupid to generalize that we are all living in the world with rules set by Mark, if I take that generalization much further we are living in the real world with rules set by people higher up in the chain. But thats not true as you can see that lot of people around you behave/act differently to these things. Biggest takeaway for me from the article is that enormous amount of time, thought spent on yet another communication medium in evolving world. I have to wonder how scared people were when they first saw email!!

AppDev054 16y ago

Interesting that the comments so far (69) are mostly a comparison of value vs risk. If you get enough value out of Facebook, it is worth the risk, otherwise it is quickly discarded.

igravious 16y ago

Zadie Smith is one of my favorite authors. She has a jaw-droppingly gorgeous prose style. It would be nice (for someone) to link to her article (so I will) that prompted this dude to delete his account. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generation-why/ http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generat... Her insights and arguments really needs to be read by everyone of our generation in full, and I mean that in all sincerity. It articulates all the misgivings and worries I have about this phenomenon that has always left a slightly bad taste in my mouth and felt vaguely repellent. In addendum: I pray for the day I can convert my thoughts into words as judiciously and compellingly, verily I would sell my soul for that knack.

narrator 16y ago

I only post stuff to Facebook that I would tell any random stranger, like I had a good trip somewhere or I read a good book or I saw a movie. Even if I was convinced of the privacy of that site, I still want there to be a bit of mystery.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

scotch_drinker 16y ago

I wonder if there isn't a correlation amongst Facebook users that falls along introvert-extrovert lines. Specifically, I wonder if introverts aren't more likely to be disappointed with their experiences with Facebook because they crave deep, interpersonal relationships with fewer people while extroverts are satisfied with Facebook because it allows them to keep up to date with hundreds of people. I find that I regularly check Facebook and am regularly disappointed with what I encounter there both as it relates to the activities of my friends and their responses to my activities. I tend to want deeper feedback and discussion which clearly isn't the model for Facebook. Whereas I know plenty of extrovert friends who love Facebook, are constantly checking in and because they have hundreds of friends, are constantly validated. Certainly this is all anecdotal and biased given that I'm strongly introverted but every time I see someone say they are giving up Facebook or are disappointed in it (including myself), it seems to me that person is most likely introverted and thus not well served by the end goals of Facebook.

alsocasey 16y ago

The far more substantial commentary by Zaddie Smith (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generation-why/?pagination=false&printpage=true http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generat...), which the author refers to a few times should really have been the article linked. The author's entire point is much more eloquently made by the original.

pkuhad 16y ago

The circulation of current generation after two or three years, who is more into facebook right now, will come to know it is sucking them, there is nothing which adds something into them apart from being cluttered forcefully in so called 'social' stuffs.

shankx 16y ago

We all love to hate Facebook but cannot deny the fact that it has become a part of our lives.