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I've been living in San Francisco for 7 years and it just feels lawless. I've been kicked while riding my bike, I've had people come up and start screaming obs

I've been living in San Francisco for 7 years and it just feels lawless. I've been kicked while riding my bike, I've had people come up and start screaming obscenities at me, I've been followed for multiple blocks by someone yelling at me, I've been threatened, I've witnessed people shooting up heroin and smoking crack in broad daylight dozens of times, I've seen a man pee himself in his wheelchair. The list goes on and on. Sure, you're going to see more intense concentrations of this stuff in the Mission and the Tenderloin, but, damn. The sidewalks and streets are disgusting. The city just doesn't seem like it's actually governed. All the city supervisors seem to care about is blocking new housing because that's what their constituents want. You see enough of this stuff and you just start to try and ignore it. But it eats at me. Seeing people every day enduring levels of despair that are completely depraved hurts the soul.

tonystubblebine 7y ago
It's good that that much despair eats at you--it means you are human. A former editor of the Street Sheet wrote a nice article about how people can respond to the homeless that we encounter: https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-be-a-better-neighbor-to-homeless-people-5ab230d2c738 https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-be-a-better-neighbor... What the article doesn't cover though is the silicon valley obsession with scale. A lot of us walk by the homeless either implicitly or explicitly thinking we are going to a job that is going to change the world. And that may be true. But there's a different school of thought that the most effective social change is done locally--where you personally know the people and the issues. So I would encourage people who still live in San Francisco to get involved in local politics/charity. (I say this as a former San Franciscan, 1st-12th grade + two startups).
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  Modern SF doesn't really tolerate local solutions. Many neighborhoods do invest in efforts to keep their streets clean and drug-free, and when they do activists come from other neighborhoods to yell at them for being heartless. And if the city decides it'd like to move a bunch of homeless people into your neighborhood, you're expected to accept it as your part in solving the citywide homelessness problem.
  - tonystubblebine 7y ago
    When I said local I meant city-scale as opposed to internet-scale. If it's broken, then that's an invitation for you to get involved. Which supervisor represents you?
- hisnameisjimmy 7y ago
  I empathize with where you're coming from, but I honestly think this line of thinking has led us to where we are now. The city is legitimately scary for many (maybe most) of its inhabitants, especially after sunset. I know plenty of women who absolutely will not walk nearly any distance alone at night. On the Muni the other day, I saw a man outside get stalked by a homeless guy who was physically threatening him. You regularly see people who you realize you need to watch out for. It starts to become a nervous tick. We need to deal with this in a real way that is not just empathizing with their situation. We can't just say "Well, they're ill, so we have to let them be horrible and scare 99% of the population". That is essentially letting the inmates run the asylum. I know that full, actual treatment is complex. A lot of them honestly don't want what's available to them and I don't blame them. But in the meantime, we have to do something to enforce the law. It's so, so deeply crazy right now.
  - tonystubblebine 7y ago
    A few years ago I learned an interesting bit of my own family history, which is that my grandfather was the head of mental health in California when Reagan was governor. And so it's his signature that was on the decision to dismantle state mental health hospitals. The hospitals were awful in their own way and there was a loose theory that the counties could step in with a replacement (which never happened). But it's basically that decision that put a lot of mentally ill people on the street. When I was a kid in San Francisco in the 80s and 90s, it was pretty much accepted wisdom that all homeless were mentally ill and were choosing to live on the streets. I don't think that's true anymore, although I don't have statistics. My experience though was that living there as an adult in 2010-2016, I saw a lot more families, a mom in the Powell Street station begging while helping her daughter with homework, or two moms digging through my trash on Precita Ave with their kids in tow. That sort of stuff. I'm not saying at all that homeless should be allowed to terrorize the city. But I do think empathy is one of the steps (and maybe the only step that readers here are in complete control of executing themselves). Are you ready to pay to provide shelter and services for each of these homeless people? Are you ready to have a shelter in your own neighborhood? Does your local supervisor know that? I doubt I'm alone in that my own feelings of generosity are improved when know and care about someone. Although, more in line with what you are saying about SF being deeply crazy, I agree and I moved away and I can't imagine moving back. But wherever you live, I'm encouraging people to do more to make that place as great as it can be. I live in NYC now, but basically follow the above advice, only more focused on over incarceration.
baggy_trough 7y ago
Take the $250 million per year that SF spends on homeless. Direct half of it into building and operating a lunatic asylum. Direct the other half into building and operating a work-house.
- fmajid 7y ago
  SF General is the de facto mental health institution in the city. It costs $1B a year to run.
cgb223 7y ago
So when are you going to do something about it? I’ve seen many a post on here about people who’ve experienced this in SF. Hell, I have too. But nobody ever shows up to a town hall type meeting and expresses this. Nobody organizes protests for it. Nobody goes and volunteers to fix this problem. Yes. Our city government is lawlessly incompetent and it shouldn’t be. But if we don’t actually get out there and scream until there’s change, then what’s even the point of complaining? Let’s fix this without them or get out there until they have to do something about it. Let’s do _something_ about it
newnewpdro 7y ago
> You see enough of this stuff and you just start to try and ignore it. But it eats at me. Seeing people every day enduring levels of despair that are completely depraved hurts the soul. Yep! I stopped going to the office in the Mission in part because of this. And my job before that in SoMa I quit in part because I was stepping over homeless people on the sidewalk every damn day on my way to the office. It was just too depressing, and that place wasn't going to tolerate my working remote so I quit. The SF bay area is pretty neat, but that city is a total disaster, way overrated and overpriced and the weather isn't even good compared to most of the nearby coastal communities or literally anywhere else on the peninsula.

tonystubblebine 7y ago

It's good that that much despair eats at you--it means you are human. A former editor of the Street Sheet wrote a nice article about how people can respond to the homeless that we encounter: https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-be-a-better-neighbor-to-homeless-people-5ab230d2c738 https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-be-a-better-neighbor... What the article doesn't cover though is the silicon valley obsession with scale. A lot of us walk by the homeless either implicitly or explicitly thinking we are going to a job that is going to change the world. And that may be true. But there's a different school of thought that the most effective social change is done locally--where you personally know the people and the issues. So I would encourage people who still live in San Francisco to get involved in local politics/charity. (I say this as a former San Franciscan, 1st-12th grade + two startups).

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
Modern SF doesn't really tolerate local solutions. Many neighborhoods do invest in efforts to keep their streets clean and drug-free, and when they do activists come from other neighborhoods to yell at them for being heartless. And if the city decides it'd like to move a bunch of homeless people into your neighborhood, you're expected to accept it as your part in solving the citywide homelessness problem.
- tonystubblebine 7y ago
  When I said local I meant city-scale as opposed to internet-scale. If it's broken, then that's an invitation for you to get involved. Which supervisor represents you?
hisnameisjimmy 7y ago
I empathize with where you're coming from, but I honestly think this line of thinking has led us to where we are now. The city is legitimately scary for many (maybe most) of its inhabitants, especially after sunset. I know plenty of women who absolutely will not walk nearly any distance alone at night. On the Muni the other day, I saw a man outside get stalked by a homeless guy who was physically threatening him. You regularly see people who you realize you need to watch out for. It starts to become a nervous tick. We need to deal with this in a real way that is not just empathizing with their situation. We can't just say "Well, they're ill, so we have to let them be horrible and scare 99% of the population". That is essentially letting the inmates run the asylum. I know that full, actual treatment is complex. A lot of them honestly don't want what's available to them and I don't blame them. But in the meantime, we have to do something to enforce the law. It's so, so deeply crazy right now.
- tonystubblebine 7y ago
  A few years ago I learned an interesting bit of my own family history, which is that my grandfather was the head of mental health in California when Reagan was governor. And so it's his signature that was on the decision to dismantle state mental health hospitals. The hospitals were awful in their own way and there was a loose theory that the counties could step in with a replacement (which never happened). But it's basically that decision that put a lot of mentally ill people on the street. When I was a kid in San Francisco in the 80s and 90s, it was pretty much accepted wisdom that all homeless were mentally ill and were choosing to live on the streets. I don't think that's true anymore, although I don't have statistics. My experience though was that living there as an adult in 2010-2016, I saw a lot more families, a mom in the Powell Street station begging while helping her daughter with homework, or two moms digging through my trash on Precita Ave with their kids in tow. That sort of stuff. I'm not saying at all that homeless should be allowed to terrorize the city. But I do think empathy is one of the steps (and maybe the only step that readers here are in complete control of executing themselves). Are you ready to pay to provide shelter and services for each of these homeless people? Are you ready to have a shelter in your own neighborhood? Does your local supervisor know that? I doubt I'm alone in that my own feelings of generosity are improved when know and care about someone. Although, more in line with what you are saying about SF being deeply crazy, I agree and I moved away and I can't imagine moving back. But wherever you live, I'm encouraging people to do more to make that place as great as it can be. I live in NYC now, but basically follow the above advice, only more focused on over incarceration.

baggy_trough 7y ago

Take the $250 million per year that SF spends on homeless. Direct half of it into building and operating a lunatic asylum. Direct the other half into building and operating a work-house.

fmajid 7y ago
SF General is the de facto mental health institution in the city. It costs $1B a year to run.

cgb223 7y ago

So when are you going to do something about it? I’ve seen many a post on here about people who’ve experienced this in SF. Hell, I have too. But nobody ever shows up to a town hall type meeting and expresses this. Nobody organizes protests for it. Nobody goes and volunteers to fix this problem. Yes. Our city government is lawlessly incompetent and it shouldn’t be. But if we don’t actually get out there and scream until there’s change, then what’s even the point of complaining? Let’s fix this without them or get out there until they have to do something about it. Let’s do _something_ about it

newnewpdro 7y ago

> You see enough of this stuff and you just start to try and ignore it. But it eats at me. Seeing people every day enduring levels of despair that are completely depraved hurts the soul. Yep! I stopped going to the office in the Mission in part because of this. And my job before that in SoMa I quit in part because I was stepping over homeless people on the sidewalk every damn day on my way to the office. It was just too depressing, and that place wasn't going to tolerate my working remote so I quit. The SF bay area is pretty neat, but that city is a total disaster, way overrated and overpriced and the weather isn't even good compared to most of the nearby coastal communities or literally anywhere else on the peninsula.