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A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

276 points by elorant 7y ago

geggam 7y ago
Would someone who is a vegan answer this question I have and I mean no offense by it. Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? It seems silly to me.
- edent 7y ago
  Most meat flavour come from sauces. Your burger mostly tastes of ketchup, mayo, mustard, pickles, and fried onions. Your steak is slathered in mushroom sauce, your fish is covered in batter or white wine, and your chicken is coated with 11 different herbs and spices. You're eating meat, but you're tasting condiments. I like veggie sausages because they fit in hot-dog buns. And burgers because they fit in burger buns. I wouldn't say the attraction is that they taste of "meat" - they're just convenient form factors.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    There's some truth to that, but it depends. Properly prepared meat/fish often has great own taste. It depends on (the part of) the animal, of course. You need the right amount of oil (or natural fat) and salt to bring out the flavor. Unfortunately, lots of people prefer boneless, skinless and fat-trimmed meat/fish.
  - geggam 7y ago
    I like sushi and steak tartar. My steaks typically have a bit of himalayan salt and a touch of pepper. I like the flavor of meat. Sauces and whatnot are used to hide the poor meat quality.
- e2le 7y ago
  Why not? One might have ethical issues with eating meat but enjoy the taste.
- mavdi 7y ago
  Personally, I miss the taste of meat sometimes, although that's happening less often these days. And meat tasting vegan dishes satisfy that need without the guilt that comes with killing an animal or destroying the planet.
- msrpotus 7y ago
  I generally avoid fake meat but plenty of people don't eat meat for religious or moral reasons. They might still want something meat-like, though, and fake meat provides that.
- mar0ux 7y ago
  (long time meat eater turned vegetarian) It's pretty simple - I really enjoy fake meat for the taste, texture and protein. It also lets me go out to places that would traditionally only have meat options like a burger joint. SO likes it because she's religiously vegetarian but can incorporate more protein into her diet.
- superpermutat0r 7y ago
  I like the taste of meat, I like the taste of eggs, texture of yogurt, I like the taste of practically all foods. I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Given that I like the tastes I like and do not want to give them up, I'll rather be calm and eat something that tastes like meat but there's no death of an animal. That's it. Could I live without veggie sausages, bruger patties? Yep. But why not eat them when they are available. What I do not understand is the exclusivity of someone who eats meat. If people today are such foodies, what is wrong with ordering a vegan meal once? Or buying vegan meat replacements, to try them and see how they taste? Vegan mayo? Why not exploit the luxury of the modern world and enjoy all that engineered food, even if you're vegan or not?
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    > I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Not only do they have to die, they also have to live. If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed?
    - seanwilson 7y ago
      > Not only do they have to die, they also have to live. If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. In the same way, you could justify birthing a human into slavery, birthing a dog for dog fighting, birthing a bull for bullfighting etc. - it's not a good reason. There's animals related to farm bred cows, pigs and chickens in the wild as well. You could use the land that's used for animal agriculture to let wild animals thrive, instead of birthing animals into a miserable life. > If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed? I don't think there's enough land for this to ever be feasible and feed everyone that wants to eat meat. You should also consider that farm animals are killed within around 20% or less into their natural lifespan so it's not like you'd be giving them much time to experience a great life. Also, for economical reasons, you'd probably still have to kill e.g. males from egg laying hens within a day or two, and male dairy calves within weeks.
- cpsempek 7y ago
  Not a vegan, but the most common reasons I have heard cited for plant based foods are ethics of eating animals, the environmental impacts of meat production, and health concerns of meat consumption. I’m sure even vegetarians/vegans enjoy the taste of meat. But they represent a small market. How can plant based food companies hope to get omnivores to buy their product? Making it similar in taste, texture, appearance seems to be the bet they’re taking.
- qntty 7y ago
  Probably because they like meat but think it's unethical to eat.
- tecleandor 7y ago
  I like the taste of meat but I don't like how is it made. So if I can get a sensible substitute which hasn't been made killing animals, I'll eat it. I'm not all day eating substitutes, as some of them are extremely processed, and also, I like vegetables and legumes, but I'll eat a Beyond burger or some other fake meat every once in a while. You can think about it as in "I like my cell phone but I rather find something made with less suffering, so I'll buy a fairphone or something like that"
- ohlookabird 7y ago
  I am curious, and also don't mean any offense by it: why is this surprising or even silly to you? Has it been your believe so far that a major driver behind avoiding meet is the taste or texture?
  - geggam 7y ago
    The thing I find silly is if you dont like eating animals or causing their death why eat fake animal meat ? It's like abstaining from sex by using a sex doll in my mind.
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      > The thing I find silly is if you dont like eating animals or causing their death why eat fake animal meat ? Because... fake animal meat does not cause animals to die? People somehow get really hung up on this fake meat thing, and at the same time often accuse vegetarians or vegans of policing their food choices. Why don't you just accept that if dozens of people in this thread post that they like the taste or texture of the "fake" product, then that means that they like the taste or texture of the "fake" product, and there is nothing more for you to understand? (Not a vegetarian myself, but I tend to only eat meat at special occasions. I like the taste and texture of some meat replacement products. Many others are atrociously bad.) > It's like abstaining from sex by using a sex doll in my mind. That comparison is only valid if having sex causes the death of your partner. And if you are someone who tends to murder their sex partners, then yes, it would be very very good if you switched to sex dolls.
    - boyotbh 7y ago
      i'm not sure this argument holds up either - if you believed having sex is inherently cruel to the person you're having sex with, but you still enjoy sex, why is using a sex doll not a reasonable solution?
      - geggam 7y ago
        Seems like if you think an act is cruel to be honest to yourself you simply shouldn’t do it. I would feel hypocritical were I to do this.
- Tepix 7y ago
  It's like drinking a Coke zero, isn't it?
- seanwilson 7y ago
  > Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? Why do people on diets eat low calorie desserts? The same way people go on diets because they want to lose weight but not to avoid the taste of food they like, people go vegan because of environmental and animal cruelty reasons but not to avoid the taste of food they like.
  - geggam 7y ago
    Animal cruelty is an issue without eating meat being involved. That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods. I think many people are too far removed from the process of how food is created.
    - sparrc 7y ago
      is killing not cruel? is it practical for everyone to raise their own cow? kosher is no more ethical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8B4vSd6h0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8B4vSd6h0
    - seanwilson 7y ago
      How do you ethically and without cruelty keep then kill an animal that doesn't want to die usually 20% or less into its natural life span? > That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods. https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-kosher-slaughter-in-australia/ https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-kosher-slaugh... > For meat to be Kosher, the animal must be slaughtered in a particular way, so the Rabbi in a Kosher abattoir is a specially trained religious slaughterer. A very sharp knife is used to cut the oesophagus, the trachea, carotid arteries and jugular veins in one smooth action. There must be no pause during the action nor excessive pressure on the blade. Failure to meet these specific requirements renders the animal unkosher. If that's correct, how is that not cruel? Animals don't want to die.
      - 7y ago
- athriren 7y ago
  It's not universal! Some people don't how it tastes because it reminds them of real meat and that grosses them out. This is a wider topic of discussion in the vegan/vegetarian community--what even are the ethics of fake meat in the first place (see Summer Burton's very recent piece about this in Buzzfeed: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/summeranne/morality-didnt-turn-people-vegan-capitalism-might https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/summeranne/morality-did...)? Personally, I just really wanted to eat burgers and bratwurst again while maintaining my dietary choices (for moral and health reasons) but didn't like any of the previous widely available vegan alternatives. I find the seitan/soy/tvp options gross and black bean burgers never did it for me. I had to get over the taste and texture of the Beyond products making my brain and stomach feel like I was eating meat, but now I have a meal with them once every few weeks when I have the craving.
- davexunit 7y ago
  Like a lot of Americans, I grew up eating lots of hamburgers and hot dogs, and while I think vegetables are delicious in their own right and don't need to imitate meat, sometimes I just want a burger. And sometimes I just want a junk food fast food burger. That new impossible whopper at Burger King is really good. I don't think I'm alone in occasionally wanting the familiarity of the food you used to eat. Beyond Meat/Impossible satisfy that. (I'm vegetarian, not vegan, fwiw)
- ssijak 7y ago
  I am vegan for half a year. Before that I ate 500+ gr of meat on most day (classic bodybuilding chicken breasts, whey, eggs, vegetables, oats, rice, etc. "clean diet"...). When I started on the vegan diet I was afraid that it would not be tasteful and will be bland and boring. But 6 months on and I am still amazed by how with very little imagination in the kitchen I come out with very very tasteful recepies and dishes which are healthy and are 95% whole food based with minimal processing by myself. Now, regarding processed vege-meat things like beyond burger.. I bought it to use it only for big barbeques when there are alot of people. Not to avoid vegan talk, if anybody is interested I am open to talk about it, but it is just so much easier for barbeques. I do prepare homemade vege burgers at home, but they need greater care in handling (can crumble more easily) so I use beyond for only this purpose.
- dyadic 7y ago
  I eat them more as an affordance to other people. They're rarely my first choice, but if I'm eating with someone else and they've cooked or we're in a non-vegan restaurant then that might be my only available option. Another reason is junk food. It's definitely harder to eat unhealthy food being a vegan, but sometimes you want to. I know places where I can go and eat a vegan burger for example, the type that is really greasy and slimy and disgusting. I don't go there often, but if I get that urge then it's nice to know that I can.
ltbarcly3 7y ago
The article doesn't go into enough details for us to evaluate the study. Some possible scenarios: They offered meat-free options that mirrored the meat-containing options. For example, they had beef lasagna and as an alternative vegetarian lasagna. If this dramatically increased the selection of vegetarian options it seems like a good indicator that there was a preference for meat free options that wasn't being satisfied. They offered meat-free lasagna as an additional option, independent of the other available choices (so no 'regular' lasagna was offered at the same time). If this increased selection of vegetarian options, it tells us absolutely nothing. It's quite possible that many people 'felt like lasagna' that day, and that was that. To phrase this scenario another way: they could increase the selection of vegetarian options to 100% by eliminating all meat from the cafeteria, but this wouldn't demonstrate any preference for vegetarian by the customers. Since whoever wrote this article didn't mention the methodology, my guess is that the methodology is more like my second scenario, which is to say that it was not a meaningful study but they don't want to say that because they are pushing an agenda. Either that or it's incompetence, I think Hanlon's Razor attaches at this point.
grawprog 7y ago
>When the proportion of meatless options doubled from one to two of four choices, overall sales remained about constant. But sales of meat-containing meals dropped, and sales of vegetarian meals, such as “wild mushroom, roasted butternut squash and sun blushed tomato risotto with parmesan”, rose 40–80%. So they cut the available meat options and doubled the available vegetarian options and find it surprising they sold more vegetarian food? Making things unavailabile does tend to have that effect.
- throwaway66920 7y ago
  I don’t think it’s as obvious as you imply. If a menu goes from 80% meat to 20% meat, I wouldn’t have been surprised to learn that either the same proportion of customers still chose a meat option; or that fewer customers ordered anything to begin with
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    I don't think that most people go "I want meat!", they just want something that sounds good, and that's what the results are reflecting. As eating meat is the default option, it's largely done without thought - you don't internalize "I eat meat", so it has no value if you do or don't in a particular meal.
    - throwaway66920 7y ago
      Idk. I think most people read the menu and decide what sounds best, with meat options rated fairly high.
  - 4ad 7y ago
    If a menu switches from 80% meat to 20% meat, I (as a meat eater) would find somewhere else to eat. On the other hand vegetarians might start to come to this place. This place might sell more vegetarian food, yet nobody will have to convert to vegetarianism. Similarly, this is about cafeterias. Sometimes food runs out. Hell, the meat option always runs out on airplanes until food gets to me. If they reduce the meat even more, no wonder that more people will eat vegetarian dishes. There's no meat left.
chousuke 7y ago
I am not vegetarian, but I still sometimes choose the vegetarian option because it tastes good. I'm not very surprised by more people finding tasty vegetarian options when more are made available.
- coldpie 7y ago
  > I'm not very surprised by more people finding tasty vegetarian options when more are made available. This is a bit off-topic, but this always bothers me. Just because we're discussing a topic doesn't mean we're surprised by it. Some data being new and worth discussing doesn't mean it broke from expectations. You can see the same thing in this other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21146856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21146856 No one is clutching their pearls, folks. We're just having a conversation.
  - jraph 7y ago
    You might be right, but I would understand "I'm not surprised" as a way to introduce an opinion or an analysis, rather than as something like "It would be dumb to be surprised". Though to be fair, I had a similar reaction when I saw the title as the commenter of your link (more like, "Well, no shit!"). I still find the conversation and the points of view of everyone here interesting, I would not be here otherwise. I would be particularly interested by someone who would indeed be surprised and offer an analysis I could not see.
- okmokmz 7y ago
  Yes, I always find it funny that when veganism/vegetarianism is discussed on this site there are always people that say they hate vegan/vegetarian food because it is bland, flavorless, tastes worse than food with meats, or otherwise complain about flavor. There are just as many good and bad vegan and vegetarian dishes as there are good and bad dishes with meat. In Seattle there are 20+ vegan restaurants that serve some absolutely awesome dishes. It seems people try a slice of some shitty veggie bacon or something else they dislike, and then immediately write off all vegan/vegetarian food as bad
_Microft 7y ago
The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notice that vegetarian food does not have to be heaps of vegetables or to taste bland, they're far more open to actually try it. I think it's rather a problem with chefs not being familiar with vegetarian recipes than people actually not liking it at all.
- LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
  Time and time again, i tryied, even in veggie only restaurants- and sorry, to say it the meals where near always disappointing. Only exception where indian restaurants and some people from a comune, who cooked delicious. My takeaway- dont eat it if for the chef, ideology comes before tastyness.
- flyGuyOnTheSly 7y ago
  Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two servings of vegetables in the crust alone etc etc... That's great, but why does it cost twice as much as all of the other pizzas on offer? Or all of these plant based meat patties that are coming out... twice as expensive as the admittedly more delicious meat based counterparts... and that's buying in bulk, looking for the best deal. I live in Canada, btw.
  - jccooper 7y ago
    Cauliflower costs substantially more than flour, if I were to guess. The plant based patties are highly processed and much lower volume. Why would you expect these things to cost the same?
elektor 7y ago
Speaking from personal experience, I've been eating a lot more plant-based meals now that Beyond and Impossible Beef are available in grocery stores. I wouldn't say I'm completely vegetarian but I'm 60% there.
- mavdi 7y ago
  I think that's a very positive step. We don't need everyone to turn vegan to flight climate change. We only need everyone to consume significantly less meat.
- aloisdg 7y ago
  You can describe this as a semi-vegetarianism or flexitarian diet.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    Or, you know, just a regular diet.
    - bananocurrency 7y ago
      ...regular to who?
  - merpnderp 7y ago
    Maybe you could make up a scientific classification for this: maybe pick some appropriate latin like "omnivorous"?</joke>
- merpnderp 7y ago
  I was so excited about the Impossible Burger at Burger King. But I made the mistake of ordering it and a regular Whopper for comparison. I tried the Impossible Burger and thought wow, this is amazingly delicious. Then I took a bite of a Whopper and realized that the Impossible Burger will never be able to replace this. You could make the world's best vegetarian burger and some discount meat from the local dollar store would still taste better.
danShumway 7y ago
There's never been a better (ie. easier) time to be a vegetarian. I switched a little while ago, and was expecting restaurant meals to be a huge pain. In actuality I rarely have to worry about it, and even though I'm a picky eater most decent restaurants now have enough options that I can find something that I like. On top of that, the increased diversity of vegetarian options that restaurants are offering has been really helpful in expanding my pallet in general. It's more likely when eating out that something I've never tried before catches my eye and I discover that I really like it when prepared a certain way. Eating out more (within reason) can be an effective way to get yourself to try new foods -- there are a lot of vegetables that I've gotten accustomed to that I used to heavily avoid.
YinglingLight 7y ago
The study is on college kids.
- 4ad 7y ago
  You are downvoted for no reason. Not only that college kids are not representative for the entire population, but most importantly college kids tend not to have money. The article says: > variables that influenced dining choices included the relative prices of vegetarian and non-vegetarian options
  - castis 7y ago
    Its not for no reason, they add nothing to the conversation. Their comment is redundant after having read past the first sentence in the article.
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    > most importantly college kids tend not to have money But if that's a very important factor and vegetarian was cheapest, anyone strapped for cash would always have chosen the vegetarian option even before this experiment, so nothing would change. Also, from the actual abstract (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116): "Linking sales data to participants’ previous meal purchases revealed that the largest effects were found in the quartile of diners with the lowest prior levels of vegetarian meal selection."
    - 4ad 7y ago
      You are assuming they would always chose the cheapest, not the best (by some criteria) they could afford. If suddently the sole meat option is more expensive than yesterdays cheaper meat, that might be too expensive for them, so they are forced onto the cheaper vegetarian options that they could avoid the day before.
      - tom_mellior 7y ago
        > If suddently the sole meat option is more expensive than yesterdays cheaper meat My understanding was that they went from three meat options to two, and I saw no indication in the abstract that they changed pricing (but I haven't read the paper), but yes, there are possible scenarios in which they were "forced" to eat non-meat. More plausible, to me, is that most people who regularly eat meat are not that uptight about it, and willing to try other stuff without feeling victimized. But yes, I also know people who are the opposite.
traditionmatte 7y ago
The first vegetarian meal I've had where I didn't feel hungry afterwards was in an Indian vegetarian restaurant. It also tasted amazingly good. Parts of India are vegetarian, so they have had plenty of time to refine the offering and see what works together.
- 0xcafecafe 7y ago
  Vegetarian Indian here, I agree. Growing up watching American cartoons I always used to wonder why the kids are shown not to like vegetables. Its only when I moved here (US) and saw how vegetables are served, I could empathize with the cartoon character kids. There are parts of India which are almost entirely vegetarian. So much so that, it has prompted giants like pizza hut and subway to open vegetarian only restaurants. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/US-food-giants-turn-vegetarian-in-Gujarat/articleshow/18823980.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/US-food-g... And might I add, the food is delicious.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  I'll always go for a paneer-based curry over a meat-based one, and I say that as a big meat eater. That stuff is divine.
- bbgm 7y ago
  I am a meat eater. But growing up in India eating meat was rare (it was too expensive) and even in our house, vegetarian food was the norm. Being vegetarian in the US is not that hard, especially in a place like Seattle, but in India, it’s a non-event. Vegan food on the other hand would be hard.
A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
I always found vegan movement oddly close to religion. At my work, guy drives a car that has a custom VEGAN plate. I am not sure why I should know his dietary restrictions. I don't like liver. Do I add bumper indicating my dislike for liver consumption? Can someone rationalize it for me? Is it like sub-culture?
- sterkekoffie 7y ago
  Veganism is not a dietary preference, it's a system of ethics. If there had been vanity plates in the 1910s there probably would have been some that said 5UFFR4G3, too. Veganism extends to all modes of consumption, not just food--for example, vegans don't buy leather or animal-tested makeup. Side note, to reduce confusion like yours, some people use 'plant-based' specifically to describe vegan food. People are vegan, products are "suitable for vegans".
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    This one is apparently OK with eradicating rats: https://gothamist.com/news/revolting-dead-rat-soup-future-nyc-pest-control https://gothamist.com/news/revolting-dead-rat-soup-future-ny...
    - sterkekoffie 7y ago
      Shooting a bear that's charging at you isn't non-vegan, and by the same token, pest control isn't necessarily non-vegan either. This is the de facto definition of veganism: > Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose. And of course, what's possible and practicable is subjective.
  - larrik 7y ago
    I know some people who eat vegan to avoid a number life threatening allergies, so it's not always about ethics. It usually is, though.
DanCarvajal 7y ago
I'm definitely part of this trend. My favorite carhop burger joint (Hire's Big H, SLC) makes their own veggie patty that to me is their best thing on their menu. It's really crafted to be a flavorful/textural experience without being "fake meat". I'm not even vegetarian and it's been my go to there for a while now. This was all before I had a grasp of the environmental impact of meat production.
- dhimes 7y ago
  Twenty years ago there was a restaurant in Bethesda that made its own veggie burger. To my taste, it was the best thing on the menu. And I only started experimenting with veggie/vegan/pescetarian cuisine a couple years ago (I go pescetarian a couple days a week).
DoreenMichele 7y ago
I'm kind of a food snob. I don't eat burgers. They're horrible. I don't eat hotdogs. They're horrible. Reading this article tempts me to want to say "Newsflash: Tasty food sells!" but I'm sure that would be flagged to death as low content snark. Also, it's possibly stupid saying anything at all because people who eat stuff like burgers and hot dogs will get all mad when you give your honest opinion that it isn't exactly gourmet health food. I often go with, say, French fries and apple pie because it's the least worst option on a burger-based menu. When they offer chicken as an alternative to burgers, it's typically also deep fried etc. It's only very recently that some burger joints genuinely offer tasty, healthy alternatives to their bland and unhealthy ground beef patty on nasty circular white bread staple food item.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > I'm sure that would be flagged to death as low content snark. Also, it's possibly stupid saying anything at all because people who eat stuff like burgers and hot dogs will get all mad when you give your honest opinion that it isn't exactly gourmet health food. Tastes differ between people. I eat burgers and hotdogs because they're tasty, and their tastiness for me is inversely proportional to the amount of vegetables you put into them. I rarely eat out, but if I want to grab a hotdog, I only do so in places where I can get a bun, sausage, ketchup and mustard, and exactly zero of all the other dressings. And from my POV, vegetables and fruits tend to ruin the taste of everything. I just don't like them, period. I accept some in appropriate context - common mushrooms, onions and peppers when the food is salty, carrots and apples and maaaaybe tomatoes on the sweet end. I can't tell you why I am like this, though I am very curious about what shapes one's tastes. I eat plenty of healthy stuff, but I'd love to make myself somehow like it, - all I've managed so far is to not feel completely miserable every time I eat a healthy meal.
  - bfdm 7y ago
    I also used to feel largely this way, but it turns out my parents just weren't good at cooking tasty vegetables. I encourage you to seek out an adventure by trying a vegetarian restaurant where the chefs know how to cook veggies. Truly breathtaking the difference in experience.
deleted 7y ago
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Pfhreak 7y ago
I went vegetarian about two years ago, and it's been way easier than I thought it would be. Plenty of meal variety when you draw ideas from across the globe.
reportgunner 7y ago
This research is pretty laughable. Made by one university, 3 locations - ages/demographics are not represented properly at all, the cultural environment is the same (one university). The ratio of veg doubled (0.25 to 0.5) while the ratio of meat fell 33 % (0.75 to 0.5). Also it doesnt at all mention the in volume of the eaters: What if the people who predominantly eat meat simply stopped going to the cafeterias as often since the food choice became less interesting ? They also say the sales rose 40%-80% - why is the range so big (and is it even reliable then)?
- loceng 7y ago
  Most food related research is this terribly done - and of course the research that supports strong ideologies with a growing follower base reach the top.
  - KitDuncan 7y ago
    The livestock industry invests billions of dollars into heavily biased studies and lately I feel like you hear a lot more about health benefits of Keto than Veganism... I think in general there is a lot less profit to be made with Veganism, it would surprise me if there was a stronger propaganda campaign then the one from the livestock industry.
    - loceng 7y ago
      If you can cite actual evidence to backup anything you've said then sure, I'd consider it more in my own arguments. Ketogenic diet has very noticeable health benefits and where you won't easily be nutrient deficient. Veganism in contrast you hear stories regularly that over time some people develop health issues - is it because of the diet or something else underlying - we don't know, no one's studied it properly. The growing counterpoint to veganism - a lot of which are people doing it for ideological reasons - from my observation is to counter the growing hate and intolerance against people who eat animals. Hunting and eating animals is a natural part of our evolution and to deny that is denying evolution; only psychopaths don't care about causing unnecessary suffering, everyone else would rather abolish factory farming where abuse is ripe and extreme. The carnivore diet is starting to trend, animal-only diet, and badly done research painting meat in a bad light is being debunked. The place where there's no profit to be made, regarding rapid, healthy weight loss - which is water fasting; there's no profit motive to promote water fasting in the mainstream. Otherwise if there is profit to be made, and bad actors involved, then there will be propaganda being generated - and it will be the crowd who spread the content they produce, that content which doesn't cost a lot to produce - and is free to distribute especially when you design the results, the writing, to align with beliefs of members of a group.
andrewfromx 7y ago
i really think the way to getting millions to change their meat eating ways is one animal at a time. Don't tell a typical meat eater give up all meat. Tell them give up cows only. Then pigs. Then maybe stop there for a while. Exist on chicken and seafood and that would change the world. Just place cows and pigs in same category as dogs and cats and all of a sudden, wow, huge win for everyone.
- mikekij 7y ago
  This extends to individual meals too. Lots of meat eaters feel some desire to be vegetarian, but have a particular dish or two they “can’t live without.” The environmental and health impacts of even avoiding meat in 50% of meals would be enormous. There’s no gold star for being a “perfect” vegetarian. Just do what you can.
  - andrewfromx 7y ago
    i've been doing no cows and pigs since 2015 and the hardest part is the social aspect of going out with friends and someone announcing to the group, OH HEY THIS PERSON OVER HERE DOES NOT EAT 100% OF EVERYTHING. And all of a sudden you are the lame one that isn't "open to trying new things" or "fun and spontaneous" and will just pop anything from any dish into your mouth and say, oh wow, yum. And yet, the same people would freak out if cat or dog was on menu.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      > i've been doing no cows and pigs since 2015 and the hardest part is the social aspect of going out with friends and someone announcing to the group, OH HEY THIS PERSON OVER HERE DOES NOT EAT 100% OF EVERYTHING It sounds like you’re lacking some supportive and understanding friends :( Would they say the same if you had a food allergy?
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  BTW, pigs are approximately no worse than poultry (or even fresh fruit) for emissions per calorie. It's the ruminant s (like cow, sheep, goat, etc) that have methane emissions which screw things up. Source: https://i0.wp.com/shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/foodkCal1.gif?resize=540%2C405 https://i0.wp.com/shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads...
jacknews 7y ago
The thing is, you don't need to be entirely vegetarian to have a big impact on your environmental footprint, etc. Many meals can do well, or even be improved, by having 'much less meat'. After all, meat has been a sign of prosperity for a long time, and so it's been stuffed into many recipes that probably don't need it, or that need much less of it than curretly practiced. 'less-itarian', if you like.
- Majestic121 7y ago
  There's actually a word for what you describe : flexitarian
  - LOLTITTIES 7y ago
    I thought flexitarian is a vegetarian who sometimes eats meat. I think reducetarian is what the term is for eating less in general.
  - collyw 7y ago
    I thought flaxitarian was more part-time vegan. My vegetarian friend uses it when he changes his mind and wants some meat.
duxup 7y ago
> “wild mushroom, roasted butternut squash and sun blushed tomato risotto with parmesan” I'll probabbly be a hold out when it comes to most of that, at least as far as ONLY eating that goes. I'd be happy to eat a meat substitute that tastes like meat.
Tepix 7y ago
A friend was in China (Being and Shanghai) and Japan (Tokyo) very recently and complained about the lack of vegetarian options. In fact one of the participants in the journey was forced to eat meat because there were no other options.
- OJFord 7y ago
  No tofu?
- edent 7y ago
  I can't speak for the other cities, but I found Beijing great for vegetarians. See my culinary travels at https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/05/a-vegetarian-in-beijing/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/05/a-vegetarian-in-beijing/ Even the restaurants which weren't purely veggie had lots of options.
9c8675a8 7y ago
Uh, no. I'll stick with meat in order to ensure that my brain and other organs keeps working as they should. I'm not worried about colesterol and fat; I'd prefer more of it actually. Thanks.
hkai 7y ago
The issue that I have with vegetarian food is that it is usually double to triple the price of a normal meal with meat. I get it, it's trendy. In India it's the opposite, vegetarian food costs less.
seanwilson 7y ago
Not sure how good the study is but I wouldn't find it surprising. I can understand how people find it hard to stay vegetarian when e.g. the only vegetarian main on a restaurant menu is risotto (this happens comically often!). Meat eaters tend to say "what would you even eat?!" because they're used to seeing menus with 90% meat options.
perkorounded 7y ago
I've been on a vegan diet the last 11 years. Starting while still living with my parents at 17, it forced me to try new foods and get better at cooking. Before I was mostly on a junk diet of fast food and frozen meals before changing my diet. I lost some weight and felt my energy levels increase. I mostly attribute this to having to skip on most fast food and sweets. During the initial few years I ate a lot of meat and dairy replacements along with accidentally vegan junk food like oreos and the purple bag doritos. But around the 4 yr mark this stuff kinda lost its allure - too processed and artificial tasting (imo) to be foods I eat frequently. The staples I landed on are just basic food: tofu, beans, rice, bread, noodles, vegetables, and fruit. I found not trying to reproduce American food improved my diet, was cheaper, and easier to share with people who don't follow a vegan diet. A vegetable curry is a lot easier to sell to someone you're sharing dinner with than something with a bunch of meat/dairy replacements. And it just tastes better. I'll mix it up and have fake meat sometimes or indulge in junk like candy or chips. But my point is following a vegan diet is quite easy once you adjust your staples a bit. Also just go easy on yourself, if you're eating out the bread might have a little whey in it but I personally think that's okay. I'd rather just eat that than make it difficult for the people I'm dining with or to bug the server to go check. Eating 95% vegan for a lifetime is clearly better than burning out. This was a lesson that took a few years to learn as I was a pretty annoying vegan the first few years when I was in my teens/early 20's.
- veganjay 7y ago
  vegan for 25 years here. not a competition - just wanted to say it has gotten a lot easier over the years. when i first went vegan, not many people even knew what vegan meant. and many grocery stores carry items that i could previous only find at food co-ops (vegan cheeses, vegan ice creams, and so on). also with apps and websites like Happy Cow (https://www.happycow.net https://www.happycow.net) it is even easier to find vegan food on the go.
uptownfunk 7y ago
The hardest part is if you’re trying to lose weight and be vegetarian, especially if you don’t eat eggs. (Milk okay, Indian vegetarian) What I call the “protein costs” are just too high, that is, how much does a gram of protein cost me in terms of a gram of carbs or grams of fat. Lean Meat has almost almost no protein cost (that is it is almost pure protein with no fat and no carbs...)
subpixel 7y ago
Missing is how meat-free options will generate new business. I'm not a vegetarian but I am the sort of person who would never eat a Whopper b/c it's garbage meat. Hadn't eaten in BK for probably a decade. I ate an Impossible Whopper and I'm gonna be eating BK a lot more often.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  I won't eat at BK because they used a shrink ray on all their sandwiches. They also ruined American Tim Horton's menu.
- chongli 7y ago
  I ate an Impossible Whopper and I'm gonna be eating BK a lot more often. This is the core reason why Impossible Foods is a darling right now. The big fast food chains have been losing customers for years due to concerns over health and obesity. Right now there seems to be a public perception that vegetarian/vegan foods are healthier than meat/dairy based foods. Big fast food is taking advantage of this perception at the moment and reaping the rewards. They aren't really healthier though. There's still loads of fat, carbs, and sodium in combinations that are highly rewarding relative to their caloric content and nutrition level. High reward, low satiety food and its interaction with the brain and fat cells, moderated by specific signalling hormones, comprise an extremely compelling theory [1] for the main cause of the obesity epidemic. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/25/book-review-the-hungry-brain/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/25/book-review-the-hungry...
miles_matthias 7y ago
I’m glad to see this study. A high end steakhouse recently opened in Boulder and I got a chance to tour the place while it was under construction with the owner. He said for all of Boulder’s hippie food, people demand meat. There may be some truth to that, but like this study shows, people need the option realistically before you can determine that.
SubuSS 7y ago
I would highly suggest vegetarian food seekers to try out cuisines that have worked out vegetarian options over time (Indian / Thai) rather than the options that try to substitute a green salad. I also have a HUGE resistance for stuff like Beyond meats - When I want meat, I really don't want to try out synthetic haeme or whatever that makes this taste like meat - at least for the next 15-20 years when we figure out what cancer it causes. A bean burger is an awesome meal, so is milk based products (pizza et al). Even better are a combination of pita bread + hummus and so on. It is very much possible to start off small - eat real vegetarian x days of a week or move to meat only for lunch or only dinner and you can go from there in small steps. You can even switch to white meat to start with. A planned setup like that actually makes me enjoy the meat more when I get it. A good reuben is extra good when it happens only once a month. I also don't really buy we have to be fully vegetarian to see all the benefits (I grew up vegetarian, picked up meat eating and I would like to think I walk a reasonable line).
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  > to try out synthetic haeme or whatever that makes this taste like meat The synthetic hemoglobin is Impossible's (patented) technique to make it cook like meat, because it's fake red blood cells. Long story short, it's a slightly differently different way to (kind of) ferment soy beans, and while it may not be as old as Soy Sauce, after as long as Asian cultures have been (ab)using the soy bean, Impossible's process would be quite hard pressed to find some new cancer to cause. The rest is just mostly various combinations of plants (beans, plant fibers, spices), just as bean burgers and veggie burgers have always been. Though don't let me stop your skepticism. Beyond / Impossible are useful beef substitutes and probably aren't healthier than beef, but they probably aren't any worse than beef either.
- ebg13 7y ago
  > I really don't want to try out synthetic haeme or whatever It's not synthetic, though. It's real heme in real leghemoglobin produced in yeast instead of hemoglobin in animals.
frankhhhhhhhhh 7y ago
This just in, people eat more vegetables when there are actual vegetables on offer. When vegetables are removed, surprisingly people eat less vegetables!
dmje 7y ago
30 year vegetarian here: I'd say in the UK we've had good vegetarian options for maybe 10 years. Before that it was "have a crappy tomato sauce with pasta" as a terrible substitute for whatever the fleshies were eating. Now, pretty much everywhere in the UK has reasonable non-meat options. What has also happened though is that low end food places - pubs, cafes, other "beige food" eateries [burgers, chips, you know, beige] - have become extraordinarily more expensive, whereas really great places have only incrementally increased prices. So you'd probably pay £15 for a crappy fish and chips in a pub, but say £18 for a really great dish in a restaurant. This has been a bit of a leveller - but also alongside this you find exponentially better veggie food in a good restaurant, whereas pubs are all still a bit "meat and two veg"...
mark_l_watson 7y ago
I think it is more difficult to prepare good tasting vegetarian food, based on my experience also cooking with meat a couple of times a week. In any case I am happy that more people are getting the chance to eat more food that they prefer. I like to stay out of any organic food, vegetarian food, etc., food arguments. People should have the freedom to buy and eat the types of food they like. I worry a little about keeping this freedom since the single political party in the USA the republicrats (also referred to as the Demopublicans) in servicing their main constituency (I am obviously talking about corporations), might try to curtail things like accurate packaging labels, etc. if that is what their corporate constituents want.
gnicholas 7y ago
> Other variables that influenced dining choices included the relative prices of vegetarian and non-vegetarian options, and the outdoor temperature. I wonder what the temperature correlation was — do hotter or colder temps lead to more vegetarian consumption?
haolez 7y ago
I'm not vegetarian, but in my previous job my favorite nearby restaurant for lunch time was a vegetarian one. The food tasted incredibly good and it wouldn't make me drowsy during the afternoon.
anonymouswacker 7y ago
It's a fad.
blue_devil 7y ago
Seems like the effect size for price was the biggest - people were getting vegetarian meals more when they cost less. From the appendix (page 6) here: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/suppl/2019/09/25/1907207116.DCSupplemental/pnas.1907207116.sapp.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/suppl/2019/09/25/190720711...

276 points by elorant 7y ago

Would someone who is a vegan answer this question I have and I mean no offense by it. Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? It seems silly to me.

edent 7y ago
Most meat flavour come from sauces. Your burger mostly tastes of ketchup, mayo, mustard, pickles, and fried onions. Your steak is slathered in mushroom sauce, your fish is covered in batter or white wine, and your chicken is coated with 11 different herbs and spices. You're eating meat, but you're tasting condiments. I like veggie sausages because they fit in hot-dog buns. And burgers because they fit in burger buns. I wouldn't say the attraction is that they taste of "meat" - they're just convenient form factors.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  There's some truth to that, but it depends. Properly prepared meat/fish often has great own taste. It depends on (the part of) the animal, of course. You need the right amount of oil (or natural fat) and salt to bring out the flavor. Unfortunately, lots of people prefer boneless, skinless and fat-trimmed meat/fish.
- geggam 7y ago
  I like sushi and steak tartar. My steaks typically have a bit of himalayan salt and a touch of pepper. I like the flavor of meat. Sauces and whatnot are used to hide the poor meat quality.
e2le 7y ago
Why not? One might have ethical issues with eating meat but enjoy the taste.
mavdi 7y ago
Personally, I miss the taste of meat sometimes, although that's happening less often these days. And meat tasting vegan dishes satisfy that need without the guilt that comes with killing an animal or destroying the planet.
msrpotus 7y ago
I generally avoid fake meat but plenty of people don't eat meat for religious or moral reasons. They might still want something meat-like, though, and fake meat provides that.
mar0ux 7y ago
(long time meat eater turned vegetarian) It's pretty simple - I really enjoy fake meat for the taste, texture and protein. It also lets me go out to places that would traditionally only have meat options like a burger joint. SO likes it because she's religiously vegetarian but can incorporate more protein into her diet.
superpermutat0r 7y ago
I like the taste of meat, I like the taste of eggs, texture of yogurt, I like the taste of practically all foods. I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Given that I like the tastes I like and do not want to give them up, I'll rather be calm and eat something that tastes like meat but there's no death of an animal. That's it. Could I live without veggie sausages, bruger patties? Yep. But why not eat them when they are available. What I do not understand is the exclusivity of someone who eats meat. If people today are such foodies, what is wrong with ordering a vegan meal once? Or buying vegan meat replacements, to try them and see how they taste? Vegan mayo? Why not exploit the luxury of the modern world and enjoy all that engineered food, even if you're vegan or not?
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Not only do they have to die, they also have to live. If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed?
  - seanwilson 7y ago
    > Not only do they have to die, they also have to live. If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. In the same way, you could justify birthing a human into slavery, birthing a dog for dog fighting, birthing a bull for bullfighting etc. - it's not a good reason. There's animals related to farm bred cows, pigs and chickens in the wild as well. You could use the land that's used for animal agriculture to let wild animals thrive, instead of birthing animals into a miserable life. > If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed? I don't think there's enough land for this to ever be feasible and feed everyone that wants to eat meat. You should also consider that farm animals are killed within around 20% or less into their natural lifespan so it's not like you'd be giving them much time to experience a great life. Also, for economical reasons, you'd probably still have to kill e.g. males from egg laying hens within a day or two, and male dairy calves within weeks.
cpsempek 7y ago
Not a vegan, but the most common reasons I have heard cited for plant based foods are ethics of eating animals, the environmental impacts of meat production, and health concerns of meat consumption. I’m sure even vegetarians/vegans enjoy the taste of meat. But they represent a small market. How can plant based food companies hope to get omnivores to buy their product? Making it similar in taste, texture, appearance seems to be the bet they’re taking.
qntty 7y ago
Probably because they like meat but think it's unethical to eat.
tecleandor 7y ago
I like the taste of meat but I don't like how is it made. So if I can get a sensible substitute which hasn't been made killing animals, I'll eat it. I'm not all day eating substitutes, as some of them are extremely processed, and also, I like vegetables and legumes, but I'll eat a Beyond burger or some other fake meat every once in a while. You can think about it as in "I like my cell phone but I rather find something made with less suffering, so I'll buy a fairphone or something like that"
ohlookabird 7y ago
I am curious, and also don't mean any offense by it: why is this surprising or even silly to you? Has it been your believe so far that a major driver behind avoiding meet is the taste or texture?
- geggam 7y ago
  The thing I find silly is if you dont like eating animals or causing their death why eat fake animal meat ? It's like abstaining from sex by using a sex doll in my mind.
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    > The thing I find silly is if you dont like eating animals or causing their death why eat fake animal meat ? Because... fake animal meat does not cause animals to die? People somehow get really hung up on this fake meat thing, and at the same time often accuse vegetarians or vegans of policing their food choices. Why don't you just accept that if dozens of people in this thread post that they like the taste or texture of the "fake" product, then that means that they like the taste or texture of the "fake" product, and there is nothing more for you to understand? (Not a vegetarian myself, but I tend to only eat meat at special occasions. I like the taste and texture of some meat replacement products. Many others are atrociously bad.) > It's like abstaining from sex by using a sex doll in my mind. That comparison is only valid if having sex causes the death of your partner. And if you are someone who tends to murder their sex partners, then yes, it would be very very good if you switched to sex dolls.
  - boyotbh 7y ago
    i'm not sure this argument holds up either - if you believed having sex is inherently cruel to the person you're having sex with, but you still enjoy sex, why is using a sex doll not a reasonable solution?
    - geggam 7y ago
      Seems like if you think an act is cruel to be honest to yourself you simply shouldn’t do it. I would feel hypocritical were I to do this.
Tepix 7y ago
It's like drinking a Coke zero, isn't it?
seanwilson 7y ago
> Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? Why do people on diets eat low calorie desserts? The same way people go on diets because they want to lose weight but not to avoid the taste of food they like, people go vegan because of environmental and animal cruelty reasons but not to avoid the taste of food they like.
- geggam 7y ago
  Animal cruelty is an issue without eating meat being involved. That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods. I think many people are too far removed from the process of how food is created.
  - sparrc 7y ago
    is killing not cruel? is it practical for everyone to raise their own cow? kosher is no more ethical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8B4vSd6h0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8B4vSd6h0
  - seanwilson 7y ago
    How do you ethically and without cruelty keep then kill an animal that doesn't want to die usually 20% or less into its natural life span? > That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods. https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-kosher-slaughter-in-australia/ https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-kosher-slaugh... > For meat to be Kosher, the animal must be slaughtered in a particular way, so the Rabbi in a Kosher abattoir is a specially trained religious slaughterer. A very sharp knife is used to cut the oesophagus, the trachea, carotid arteries and jugular veins in one smooth action. There must be no pause during the action nor excessive pressure on the blade. Failure to meet these specific requirements renders the animal unkosher. If that's correct, how is that not cruel? Animals don't want to die.
    - 7y ago
athriren 7y ago
It's not universal! Some people don't how it tastes because it reminds them of real meat and that grosses them out. This is a wider topic of discussion in the vegan/vegetarian community--what even are the ethics of fake meat in the first place (see Summer Burton's very recent piece about this in Buzzfeed: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/summeranne/morality-didnt-turn-people-vegan-capitalism-might https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/summeranne/morality-did...)? Personally, I just really wanted to eat burgers and bratwurst again while maintaining my dietary choices (for moral and health reasons) but didn't like any of the previous widely available vegan alternatives. I find the seitan/soy/tvp options gross and black bean burgers never did it for me. I had to get over the taste and texture of the Beyond products making my brain and stomach feel like I was eating meat, but now I have a meal with them once every few weeks when I have the craving.
davexunit 7y ago
Like a lot of Americans, I grew up eating lots of hamburgers and hot dogs, and while I think vegetables are delicious in their own right and don't need to imitate meat, sometimes I just want a burger. And sometimes I just want a junk food fast food burger. That new impossible whopper at Burger King is really good. I don't think I'm alone in occasionally wanting the familiarity of the food you used to eat. Beyond Meat/Impossible satisfy that. (I'm vegetarian, not vegan, fwiw)
ssijak 7y ago
I am vegan for half a year. Before that I ate 500+ gr of meat on most day (classic bodybuilding chicken breasts, whey, eggs, vegetables, oats, rice, etc. "clean diet"...). When I started on the vegan diet I was afraid that it would not be tasteful and will be bland and boring. But 6 months on and I am still amazed by how with very little imagination in the kitchen I come out with very very tasteful recepies and dishes which are healthy and are 95% whole food based with minimal processing by myself. Now, regarding processed vege-meat things like beyond burger.. I bought it to use it only for big barbeques when there are alot of people. Not to avoid vegan talk, if anybody is interested I am open to talk about it, but it is just so much easier for barbeques. I do prepare homemade vege burgers at home, but they need greater care in handling (can crumble more easily) so I use beyond for only this purpose.
dyadic 7y ago
I eat them more as an affordance to other people. They're rarely my first choice, but if I'm eating with someone else and they've cooked or we're in a non-vegan restaurant then that might be my only available option. Another reason is junk food. It's definitely harder to eat unhealthy food being a vegan, but sometimes you want to. I know places where I can go and eat a vegan burger for example, the type that is really greasy and slimy and disgusting. I don't go there often, but if I get that urge then it's nice to know that I can.

ltbarcly3 7y ago

The article doesn't go into enough details for us to evaluate the study. Some possible scenarios: They offered meat-free options that mirrored the meat-containing options. For example, they had beef lasagna and as an alternative vegetarian lasagna. If this dramatically increased the selection of vegetarian options it seems like a good indicator that there was a preference for meat free options that wasn't being satisfied. They offered meat-free lasagna as an additional option, independent of the other available choices (so no 'regular' lasagna was offered at the same time). If this increased selection of vegetarian options, it tells us absolutely nothing. It's quite possible that many people 'felt like lasagna' that day, and that was that. To phrase this scenario another way: they could increase the selection of vegetarian options to 100% by eliminating all meat from the cafeteria, but this wouldn't demonstrate any preference for vegetarian by the customers. Since whoever wrote this article didn't mention the methodology, my guess is that the methodology is more like my second scenario, which is to say that it was not a meaningful study but they don't want to say that because they are pushing an agenda. Either that or it's incompetence, I think Hanlon's Razor attaches at this point.

grawprog 7y ago

>When the proportion of meatless options doubled from one to two of four choices, overall sales remained about constant. But sales of meat-containing meals dropped, and sales of vegetarian meals, such as “wild mushroom, roasted butternut squash and sun blushed tomato risotto with parmesan”, rose 40–80%. So they cut the available meat options and doubled the available vegetarian options and find it surprising they sold more vegetarian food? Making things unavailabile does tend to have that effect.

throwaway66920 7y ago
I don’t think it’s as obvious as you imply. If a menu goes from 80% meat to 20% meat, I wouldn’t have been surprised to learn that either the same proportion of customers still chose a meat option; or that fewer customers ordered anything to begin with
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I don't think that most people go "I want meat!", they just want something that sounds good, and that's what the results are reflecting. As eating meat is the default option, it's largely done without thought - you don't internalize "I eat meat", so it has no value if you do or don't in a particular meal.
  - throwaway66920 7y ago
    Idk. I think most people read the menu and decide what sounds best, with meat options rated fairly high.
- 4ad 7y ago
  If a menu switches from 80% meat to 20% meat, I (as a meat eater) would find somewhere else to eat. On the other hand vegetarians might start to come to this place. This place might sell more vegetarian food, yet nobody will have to convert to vegetarianism. Similarly, this is about cafeterias. Sometimes food runs out. Hell, the meat option always runs out on airplanes until food gets to me. If they reduce the meat even more, no wonder that more people will eat vegetarian dishes. There's no meat left.

chousuke 7y ago

I am not vegetarian, but I still sometimes choose the vegetarian option because it tastes good. I'm not very surprised by more people finding tasty vegetarian options when more are made available.

coldpie 7y ago
> I'm not very surprised by more people finding tasty vegetarian options when more are made available. This is a bit off-topic, but this always bothers me. Just because we're discussing a topic doesn't mean we're surprised by it. Some data being new and worth discussing doesn't mean it broke from expectations. You can see the same thing in this other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21146856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21146856 No one is clutching their pearls, folks. We're just having a conversation.
- jraph 7y ago
  You might be right, but I would understand "I'm not surprised" as a way to introduce an opinion or an analysis, rather than as something like "It would be dumb to be surprised". Though to be fair, I had a similar reaction when I saw the title as the commenter of your link (more like, "Well, no shit!"). I still find the conversation and the points of view of everyone here interesting, I would not be here otherwise. I would be particularly interested by someone who would indeed be surprised and offer an analysis I could not see.
okmokmz 7y ago
Yes, I always find it funny that when veganism/vegetarianism is discussed on this site there are always people that say they hate vegan/vegetarian food because it is bland, flavorless, tastes worse than food with meats, or otherwise complain about flavor. There are just as many good and bad vegan and vegetarian dishes as there are good and bad dishes with meat. In Seattle there are 20+ vegan restaurants that serve some absolutely awesome dishes. It seems people try a slice of some shitty veggie bacon or something else they dislike, and then immediately write off all vegan/vegetarian food as bad

_Microft 7y ago

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notice that vegetarian food does not have to be heaps of vegetables or to taste bland, they're far more open to actually try it. I think it's rather a problem with chefs not being familiar with vegetarian recipes than people actually not liking it at all.

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
Time and time again, i tryied, even in veggie only restaurants- and sorry, to say it the meals where near always disappointing. Only exception where indian restaurants and some people from a comune, who cooked delicious. My takeaway- dont eat it if for the chef, ideology comes before tastyness.
flyGuyOnTheSly 7y ago
Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two servings of vegetables in the crust alone etc etc... That's great, but why does it cost twice as much as all of the other pizzas on offer? Or all of these plant based meat patties that are coming out... twice as expensive as the admittedly more delicious meat based counterparts... and that's buying in bulk, looking for the best deal. I live in Canada, btw.
- jccooper 7y ago
  Cauliflower costs substantially more than flour, if I were to guess. The plant based patties are highly processed and much lower volume. Why would you expect these things to cost the same?

elektor 7y ago

Speaking from personal experience, I've been eating a lot more plant-based meals now that Beyond and Impossible Beef are available in grocery stores. I wouldn't say I'm completely vegetarian but I'm 60% there.

mavdi 7y ago
I think that's a very positive step. We don't need everyone to turn vegan to flight climate change. We only need everyone to consume significantly less meat.
aloisdg 7y ago
You can describe this as a semi-vegetarianism or flexitarian diet.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- gridlockd 7y ago
  Or, you know, just a regular diet.
  - bananocurrency 7y ago
    ...regular to who?
- merpnderp 7y ago
  Maybe you could make up a scientific classification for this: maybe pick some appropriate latin like "omnivorous"?</joke>
merpnderp 7y ago
I was so excited about the Impossible Burger at Burger King. But I made the mistake of ordering it and a regular Whopper for comparison. I tried the Impossible Burger and thought wow, this is amazingly delicious. Then I took a bite of a Whopper and realized that the Impossible Burger will never be able to replace this. You could make the world's best vegetarian burger and some discount meat from the local dollar store would still taste better.

danShumway 7y ago

There's never been a better (ie. easier) time to be a vegetarian. I switched a little while ago, and was expecting restaurant meals to be a huge pain. In actuality I rarely have to worry about it, and even though I'm a picky eater most decent restaurants now have enough options that I can find something that I like. On top of that, the increased diversity of vegetarian options that restaurants are offering has been really helpful in expanding my pallet in general. It's more likely when eating out that something I've never tried before catches my eye and I discover that I really like it when prepared a certain way. Eating out more (within reason) can be an effective way to get yourself to try new foods -- there are a lot of vegetables that I've gotten accustomed to that I used to heavily avoid.

YinglingLight 7y ago

The study is on college kids.

4ad 7y ago
You are downvoted for no reason. Not only that college kids are not representative for the entire population, but most importantly college kids tend not to have money. The article says: > variables that influenced dining choices included the relative prices of vegetarian and non-vegetarian options
- castis 7y ago
  Its not for no reason, they add nothing to the conversation. Their comment is redundant after having read past the first sentence in the article.
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  > most importantly college kids tend not to have money But if that's a very important factor and vegetarian was cheapest, anyone strapped for cash would always have chosen the vegetarian option even before this experiment, so nothing would change. Also, from the actual abstract (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116): "Linking sales data to participants’ previous meal purchases revealed that the largest effects were found in the quartile of diners with the lowest prior levels of vegetarian meal selection."
  - 4ad 7y ago
    You are assuming they would always chose the cheapest, not the best (by some criteria) they could afford. If suddently the sole meat option is more expensive than yesterdays cheaper meat, that might be too expensive for them, so they are forced onto the cheaper vegetarian options that they could avoid the day before.
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      > If suddently the sole meat option is more expensive than yesterdays cheaper meat My understanding was that they went from three meat options to two, and I saw no indication in the abstract that they changed pricing (but I haven't read the paper), but yes, there are possible scenarios in which they were "forced" to eat non-meat. More plausible, to me, is that most people who regularly eat meat are not that uptight about it, and willing to try other stuff without feeling victimized. But yes, I also know people who are the opposite.

traditionmatte 7y ago

The first vegetarian meal I've had where I didn't feel hungry afterwards was in an Indian vegetarian restaurant. It also tasted amazingly good. Parts of India are vegetarian, so they have had plenty of time to refine the offering and see what works together.

0xcafecafe 7y ago
Vegetarian Indian here, I agree. Growing up watching American cartoons I always used to wonder why the kids are shown not to like vegetables. Its only when I moved here (US) and saw how vegetables are served, I could empathize with the cartoon character kids. There are parts of India which are almost entirely vegetarian. So much so that, it has prompted giants like pizza hut and subway to open vegetarian only restaurants. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/US-food-giants-turn-vegetarian-in-Gujarat/articleshow/18823980.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/US-food-g... And might I add, the food is delicious.
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
I'll always go for a paneer-based curry over a meat-based one, and I say that as a big meat eater. That stuff is divine.
bbgm 7y ago
I am a meat eater. But growing up in India eating meat was rare (it was too expensive) and even in our house, vegetarian food was the norm. Being vegetarian in the US is not that hard, especially in a place like Seattle, but in India, it’s a non-event. Vegan food on the other hand would be hard.

A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago

I always found vegan movement oddly close to religion. At my work, guy drives a car that has a custom VEGAN plate. I am not sure why I should know his dietary restrictions. I don't like liver. Do I add bumper indicating my dislike for liver consumption? Can someone rationalize it for me? Is it like sub-culture?

sterkekoffie 7y ago
Veganism is not a dietary preference, it's a system of ethics. If there had been vanity plates in the 1910s there probably would have been some that said 5UFFR4G3, too. Veganism extends to all modes of consumption, not just food--for example, vegans don't buy leather or animal-tested makeup. Side note, to reduce confusion like yours, some people use 'plant-based' specifically to describe vegan food. People are vegan, products are "suitable for vegans".
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  This one is apparently OK with eradicating rats: https://gothamist.com/news/revolting-dead-rat-soup-future-nyc-pest-control https://gothamist.com/news/revolting-dead-rat-soup-future-ny...
  - sterkekoffie 7y ago
    Shooting a bear that's charging at you isn't non-vegan, and by the same token, pest control isn't necessarily non-vegan either. This is the de facto definition of veganism: > Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose. And of course, what's possible and practicable is subjective.
- larrik 7y ago
  I know some people who eat vegan to avoid a number life threatening allergies, so it's not always about ethics. It usually is, though.

DanCarvajal 7y ago

I'm definitely part of this trend. My favorite carhop burger joint (Hire's Big H, SLC) makes their own veggie patty that to me is their best thing on their menu. It's really crafted to be a flavorful/textural experience without being "fake meat". I'm not even vegetarian and it's been my go to there for a while now. This was all before I had a grasp of the environmental impact of meat production.

dhimes 7y ago
Twenty years ago there was a restaurant in Bethesda that made its own veggie burger. To my taste, it was the best thing on the menu. And I only started experimenting with veggie/vegan/pescetarian cuisine a couple years ago (I go pescetarian a couple days a week).

DoreenMichele 7y ago

I'm kind of a food snob. I don't eat burgers. They're horrible. I don't eat hotdogs. They're horrible. Reading this article tempts me to want to say "Newsflash: Tasty food sells!" but I'm sure that would be flagged to death as low content snark. Also, it's possibly stupid saying anything at all because people who eat stuff like burgers and hot dogs will get all mad when you give your honest opinion that it isn't exactly gourmet health food. I often go with, say, French fries and apple pie because it's the least worst option on a burger-based menu. When they offer chicken as an alternative to burgers, it's typically also deep fried etc. It's only very recently that some burger joints genuinely offer tasty, healthy alternatives to their bland and unhealthy ground beef patty on nasty circular white bread staple food item.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> I'm sure that would be flagged to death as low content snark. Also, it's possibly stupid saying anything at all because people who eat stuff like burgers and hot dogs will get all mad when you give your honest opinion that it isn't exactly gourmet health food. Tastes differ between people. I eat burgers and hotdogs because they're tasty, and their tastiness for me is inversely proportional to the amount of vegetables you put into them. I rarely eat out, but if I want to grab a hotdog, I only do so in places where I can get a bun, sausage, ketchup and mustard, and exactly zero of all the other dressings. And from my POV, vegetables and fruits tend to ruin the taste of everything. I just don't like them, period. I accept some in appropriate context - common mushrooms, onions and peppers when the food is salty, carrots and apples and maaaaybe tomatoes on the sweet end. I can't tell you why I am like this, though I am very curious about what shapes one's tastes. I eat plenty of healthy stuff, but I'd love to make myself somehow like it, - all I've managed so far is to not feel completely miserable every time I eat a healthy meal.
- bfdm 7y ago
  I also used to feel largely this way, but it turns out my parents just weren't good at cooking tasty vegetables. I encourage you to seek out an adventure by trying a vegetarian restaurant where the chefs know how to cook veggies. Truly breathtaking the difference in experience.

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Pfhreak 7y ago

I went vegetarian about two years ago, and it's been way easier than I thought it would be. Plenty of meal variety when you draw ideas from across the globe.

reportgunner 7y ago

This research is pretty laughable. Made by one university, 3 locations - ages/demographics are not represented properly at all, the cultural environment is the same (one university). The ratio of veg doubled (0.25 to 0.5) while the ratio of meat fell 33 % (0.75 to 0.5). Also it doesnt at all mention the in volume of the eaters: What if the people who predominantly eat meat simply stopped going to the cafeterias as often since the food choice became less interesting ? They also say the sales rose 40%-80% - why is the range so big (and is it even reliable then)?

loceng 7y ago
Most food related research is this terribly done - and of course the research that supports strong ideologies with a growing follower base reach the top.
- KitDuncan 7y ago
  The livestock industry invests billions of dollars into heavily biased studies and lately I feel like you hear a lot more about health benefits of Keto than Veganism... I think in general there is a lot less profit to be made with Veganism, it would surprise me if there was a stronger propaganda campaign then the one from the livestock industry.
  - loceng 7y ago
    If you can cite actual evidence to backup anything you've said then sure, I'd consider it more in my own arguments. Ketogenic diet has very noticeable health benefits and where you won't easily be nutrient deficient. Veganism in contrast you hear stories regularly that over time some people develop health issues - is it because of the diet or something else underlying - we don't know, no one's studied it properly. The growing counterpoint to veganism - a lot of which are people doing it for ideological reasons - from my observation is to counter the growing hate and intolerance against people who eat animals. Hunting and eating animals is a natural part of our evolution and to deny that is denying evolution; only psychopaths don't care about causing unnecessary suffering, everyone else would rather abolish factory farming where abuse is ripe and extreme. The carnivore diet is starting to trend, animal-only diet, and badly done research painting meat in a bad light is being debunked. The place where there's no profit to be made, regarding rapid, healthy weight loss - which is water fasting; there's no profit motive to promote water fasting in the mainstream. Otherwise if there is profit to be made, and bad actors involved, then there will be propaganda being generated - and it will be the crowd who spread the content they produce, that content which doesn't cost a lot to produce - and is free to distribute especially when you design the results, the writing, to align with beliefs of members of a group.

andrewfromx 7y ago

i really think the way to getting millions to change their meat eating ways is one animal at a time. Don't tell a typical meat eater give up all meat. Tell them give up cows only. Then pigs. Then maybe stop there for a while. Exist on chicken and seafood and that would change the world. Just place cows and pigs in same category as dogs and cats and all of a sudden, wow, huge win for everyone.

mikekij 7y ago
This extends to individual meals too. Lots of meat eaters feel some desire to be vegetarian, but have a particular dish or two they “can’t live without.” The environmental and health impacts of even avoiding meat in 50% of meals would be enormous. There’s no gold star for being a “perfect” vegetarian. Just do what you can.
- andrewfromx 7y ago
  i've been doing no cows and pigs since 2015 and the hardest part is the social aspect of going out with friends and someone announcing to the group, OH HEY THIS PERSON OVER HERE DOES NOT EAT 100% OF EVERYTHING. And all of a sudden you are the lame one that isn't "open to trying new things" or "fun and spontaneous" and will just pop anything from any dish into your mouth and say, oh wow, yum. And yet, the same people would freak out if cat or dog was on menu.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > i've been doing no cows and pigs since 2015 and the hardest part is the social aspect of going out with friends and someone announcing to the group, OH HEY THIS PERSON OVER HERE DOES NOT EAT 100% OF EVERYTHING It sounds like you’re lacking some supportive and understanding friends :( Would they say the same if you had a food allergy?
Robotbeat 7y ago
BTW, pigs are approximately no worse than poultry (or even fresh fruit) for emissions per calorie. It's the ruminant s (like cow, sheep, goat, etc) that have methane emissions which screw things up. Source: https://i0.wp.com/shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/foodkCal1.gif?resize=540%2C405 https://i0.wp.com/shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads...

jacknews 7y ago

The thing is, you don't need to be entirely vegetarian to have a big impact on your environmental footprint, etc. Many meals can do well, or even be improved, by having 'much less meat'. After all, meat has been a sign of prosperity for a long time, and so it's been stuffed into many recipes that probably don't need it, or that need much less of it than curretly practiced. 'less-itarian', if you like.

Majestic121 7y ago
There's actually a word for what you describe : flexitarian
- LOLTITTIES 7y ago
  I thought flexitarian is a vegetarian who sometimes eats meat. I think reducetarian is what the term is for eating less in general.
- collyw 7y ago
  I thought flaxitarian was more part-time vegan. My vegetarian friend uses it when he changes his mind and wants some meat.

duxup 7y ago

> “wild mushroom, roasted butternut squash and sun blushed tomato risotto with parmesan” I'll probabbly be a hold out when it comes to most of that, at least as far as ONLY eating that goes. I'd be happy to eat a meat substitute that tastes like meat.

Tepix 7y ago

A friend was in China (Being and Shanghai) and Japan (Tokyo) very recently and complained about the lack of vegetarian options. In fact one of the participants in the journey was forced to eat meat because there were no other options.

OJFord 7y ago
No tofu?
edent 7y ago
I can't speak for the other cities, but I found Beijing great for vegetarians. See my culinary travels at https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/05/a-vegetarian-in-beijing/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/05/a-vegetarian-in-beijing/ Even the restaurants which weren't purely veggie had lots of options.

9c8675a8 7y ago

Uh, no. I'll stick with meat in order to ensure that my brain and other organs keeps working as they should. I'm not worried about colesterol and fat; I'd prefer more of it actually. Thanks.

hkai 7y ago

The issue that I have with vegetarian food is that it is usually double to triple the price of a normal meal with meat. I get it, it's trendy. In India it's the opposite, vegetarian food costs less.

seanwilson 7y ago

Not sure how good the study is but I wouldn't find it surprising. I can understand how people find it hard to stay vegetarian when e.g. the only vegetarian main on a restaurant menu is risotto (this happens comically often!). Meat eaters tend to say "what would you even eat?!" because they're used to seeing menus with 90% meat options.

perkorounded 7y ago

I've been on a vegan diet the last 11 years. Starting while still living with my parents at 17, it forced me to try new foods and get better at cooking. Before I was mostly on a junk diet of fast food and frozen meals before changing my diet. I lost some weight and felt my energy levels increase. I mostly attribute this to having to skip on most fast food and sweets. During the initial few years I ate a lot of meat and dairy replacements along with accidentally vegan junk food like oreos and the purple bag doritos. But around the 4 yr mark this stuff kinda lost its allure - too processed and artificial tasting (imo) to be foods I eat frequently. The staples I landed on are just basic food: tofu, beans, rice, bread, noodles, vegetables, and fruit. I found not trying to reproduce American food improved my diet, was cheaper, and easier to share with people who don't follow a vegan diet. A vegetable curry is a lot easier to sell to someone you're sharing dinner with than something with a bunch of meat/dairy replacements. And it just tastes better. I'll mix it up and have fake meat sometimes or indulge in junk like candy or chips. But my point is following a vegan diet is quite easy once you adjust your staples a bit. Also just go easy on yourself, if you're eating out the bread might have a little whey in it but I personally think that's okay. I'd rather just eat that than make it difficult for the people I'm dining with or to bug the server to go check. Eating 95% vegan for a lifetime is clearly better than burning out. This was a lesson that took a few years to learn as I was a pretty annoying vegan the first few years when I was in my teens/early 20's.

veganjay 7y ago
vegan for 25 years here. not a competition - just wanted to say it has gotten a lot easier over the years. when i first went vegan, not many people even knew what vegan meant. and many grocery stores carry items that i could previous only find at food co-ops (vegan cheeses, vegan ice creams, and so on). also with apps and websites like Happy Cow (https://www.happycow.net https://www.happycow.net) it is even easier to find vegan food on the go.

uptownfunk 7y ago

The hardest part is if you’re trying to lose weight and be vegetarian, especially if you don’t eat eggs. (Milk okay, Indian vegetarian) What I call the “protein costs” are just too high, that is, how much does a gram of protein cost me in terms of a gram of carbs or grams of fat. Lean Meat has almost almost no protein cost (that is it is almost pure protein with no fat and no carbs...)

subpixel 7y ago

Missing is how meat-free options will generate new business. I'm not a vegetarian but I am the sort of person who would never eat a Whopper b/c it's garbage meat. Hadn't eaten in BK for probably a decade. I ate an Impossible Whopper and I'm gonna be eating BK a lot more often.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
I won't eat at BK because they used a shrink ray on all their sandwiches. They also ruined American Tim Horton's menu.
chongli 7y ago
I ate an Impossible Whopper and I'm gonna be eating BK a lot more often. This is the core reason why Impossible Foods is a darling right now. The big fast food chains have been losing customers for years due to concerns over health and obesity. Right now there seems to be a public perception that vegetarian/vegan foods are healthier than meat/dairy based foods. Big fast food is taking advantage of this perception at the moment and reaping the rewards. They aren't really healthier though. There's still loads of fat, carbs, and sodium in combinations that are highly rewarding relative to their caloric content and nutrition level. High reward, low satiety food and its interaction with the brain and fat cells, moderated by specific signalling hormones, comprise an extremely compelling theory [1] for the main cause of the obesity epidemic. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/25/book-review-the-hungry-brain/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/25/book-review-the-hungry...

miles_matthias 7y ago

I’m glad to see this study. A high end steakhouse recently opened in Boulder and I got a chance to tour the place while it was under construction with the owner. He said for all of Boulder’s hippie food, people demand meat. There may be some truth to that, but like this study shows, people need the option realistically before you can determine that.

SubuSS 7y ago

I would highly suggest vegetarian food seekers to try out cuisines that have worked out vegetarian options over time (Indian / Thai) rather than the options that try to substitute a green salad. I also have a HUGE resistance for stuff like Beyond meats - When I want meat, I really don't want to try out synthetic haeme or whatever that makes this taste like meat - at least for the next 15-20 years when we figure out what cancer it causes. A bean burger is an awesome meal, so is milk based products (pizza et al). Even better are a combination of pita bread + hummus and so on. It is very much possible to start off small - eat real vegetarian x days of a week or move to meat only for lunch or only dinner and you can go from there in small steps. You can even switch to white meat to start with. A planned setup like that actually makes me enjoy the meat more when I get it. A good reuben is extra good when it happens only once a month. I also don't really buy we have to be fully vegetarian to see all the benefits (I grew up vegetarian, picked up meat eating and I would like to think I walk a reasonable line).

WorldMaker 7y ago
> to try out synthetic haeme or whatever that makes this taste like meat The synthetic hemoglobin is Impossible's (patented) technique to make it cook like meat, because it's fake red blood cells. Long story short, it's a slightly differently different way to (kind of) ferment soy beans, and while it may not be as old as Soy Sauce, after as long as Asian cultures have been (ab)using the soy bean, Impossible's process would be quite hard pressed to find some new cancer to cause. The rest is just mostly various combinations of plants (beans, plant fibers, spices), just as bean burgers and veggie burgers have always been. Though don't let me stop your skepticism. Beyond / Impossible are useful beef substitutes and probably aren't healthier than beef, but they probably aren't any worse than beef either.
ebg13 7y ago
> I really don't want to try out synthetic haeme or whatever It's not synthetic, though. It's real heme in real leghemoglobin produced in yeast instead of hemoglobin in animals.

frankhhhhhhhhh 7y ago

This just in, people eat more vegetables when there are actual vegetables on offer. When vegetables are removed, surprisingly people eat less vegetables!

dmje 7y ago

30 year vegetarian here: I'd say in the UK we've had good vegetarian options for maybe 10 years. Before that it was "have a crappy tomato sauce with pasta" as a terrible substitute for whatever the fleshies were eating. Now, pretty much everywhere in the UK has reasonable non-meat options. What has also happened though is that low end food places - pubs, cafes, other "beige food" eateries [burgers, chips, you know, beige] - have become extraordinarily more expensive, whereas really great places have only incrementally increased prices. So you'd probably pay £15 for a crappy fish and chips in a pub, but say £18 for a really great dish in a restaurant. This has been a bit of a leveller - but also alongside this you find exponentially better veggie food in a good restaurant, whereas pubs are all still a bit "meat and two veg"...

mark_l_watson 7y ago

I think it is more difficult to prepare good tasting vegetarian food, based on my experience also cooking with meat a couple of times a week. In any case I am happy that more people are getting the chance to eat more food that they prefer. I like to stay out of any organic food, vegetarian food, etc., food arguments. People should have the freedom to buy and eat the types of food they like. I worry a little about keeping this freedom since the single political party in the USA the republicrats (also referred to as the Demopublicans) in servicing their main constituency (I am obviously talking about corporations), might try to curtail things like accurate packaging labels, etc. if that is what their corporate constituents want.

gnicholas 7y ago

> Other variables that influenced dining choices included the relative prices of vegetarian and non-vegetarian options, and the outdoor temperature. I wonder what the temperature correlation was — do hotter or colder temps lead to more vegetarian consumption?

haolez 7y ago

I'm not vegetarian, but in my previous job my favorite nearby restaurant for lunch time was a vegetarian one. The food tasted incredibly good and it wouldn't make me drowsy during the afternoon.

anonymouswacker 7y ago

It's a fad.

blue_devil 7y ago

Seems like the effect size for price was the biggest - people were getting vegetarian meals more when they cost less. From the appendix (page 6) here: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/suppl/2019/09/25/1907207116.DCSupplemental/pnas.1907207116.sapp.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/suppl/2019/09/25/190720711...