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Reports on China ‘organ harvesting’ derive from front groups of Falun Gong cult

14 points by amaccuish 7y ago

sezna 7y ago
When I lived in China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, it was no secret Falun Dafa (or Falun Gong — same thing) were nuts. They’re like the Scientology of Asia. Maybe a little weirder. They convinced my girlfriend’s Grandma she could solve her health concerns, anything from inflammation to cancer, with meditation and absolutely zero medicine. This of course ended with a hospital trip and Grandma’s swift departure from Falun Gong. I moved back to the States and kinda forgot about them. Five years go by, and I start seeing billboards for their origin-story-in-musical-form Shen Yun in every city I visit. Ok, that’s weird, but cults are gonna cult so whatever. I visit the Chinese embassy to get my visa approved and get a pamphlet from them that has the organ harvesting stuff. Also weird. Seemed like their presence is growing outside of Asia. Fast forward two more years and I now live in Seattle. There are literal Falun Gong parades going down the streets. The city events all have Falun booths. Random Americans have learned enough Chinese and Chinese music to stumble their way through Falun Gong’s anthems. I guess this is all just an anecdote. People are quick to trust them, because they advertise themselves as traditional Chinese art and culture, and they don’t have a bad rap here. These organ harvesting claims against China are enticing to believe, because it is popular to distrust the Chinese government (and deservedly so). But...take this group’s claims with a hefty bowl of salt.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  In New Orleans they slid envelopes addressed to “Dear Neighbor” under everyone’s front door with an advertisement to Shen Yun inside
- intopieces 7y ago
  I'm somewhat familiar with Falun Gong. But I'm not sure I understand why it constitutes a "cult" -- this term seems unnecessarily loaded. The fact that your friend's grandmother was able to "swiftly depart” increases this suspicion for me. There are lots of religions in the world with weird practices, including some Christian sects that don't permit blood transfusions and some new-age groups that shun modern medicine.
  - resters 7y ago
    There's not really any practical distinction between religions, cults, and political parties.
    - beisner 7y ago
      As the old saying goes, cult + time = religion.
  - mugwort13 7y ago
    It’s not a cult. The Chinese government launched a massive campaign against Falun Gong in 1999. They said they would eradicate it in months. They don’t like anything that takes away from “the party”
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    I wouldn’t give those Christian sects a pass on not being cults. Falun gong has some weird beliefs, some of them very self destructive. Of course, the Chinese government doesn’t do itself any favors in their typical heavy handed approaches to information supremacy, making them an unreliable source, but that doesn’t mean they are wrong.
  - sezna 7y ago
    These conversations frequently devolve into semantic debates over what a cult is. Some Christian groups are definitely cults. There are some signs of a cult that usually involve heavy recruiting and PR, a difficulty leaving, a rigid power structure, etc. I use the term lightly because I rarely talk to people who aren’t already familiar with Falun and don’t think they’re a cult. That is my bad, feel free to disregard that categorization. It isn’t pivotal to the anecdote I was relaying.
  - pwinnski 7y ago
    The only Christian sect I know of that prohibits blood transfusions--Jehovah's Witnesses--are considered a cult, too. I share your concern about labeling as a distancing or othering tactic, though.
- nyolfen 7y ago
  the US has an interest in supporting dissident expat communities from rival regimes (eg the mke, a marxist cult of iranians). i wouldn’t be surprised if they received some amount of mysterious funding, maybe even in the form of shen yun ticket revenue.
  - rudiv 7y ago
    I'm guessing you mean MEK, which is the mujahedin el khalq IIRC, but please, don't call them Marxist just because they may have professed Marxist beliefs decades ago. They've been a run of the mill personality cult for much longer than they've been Marxist, so it seems disingenuous to use that as their primary description.
- mugwort13 7y ago
  Please tell me why practicing truth, compassion and tolerance makes me a cult member. I have been practicing since 2005 and it has made my life nothing but better. I am kinder, more honest and more thoughtful. How is this a bad thing?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
pupppet 7y ago
Front groups or not, patients in China have an unnaturally short wait time for organs.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  They are not harvesting from falun gong people specifically, or probably not even coincidentally (organs from a bunch of older cult members with health problems are probably not very appealing). However, they are still harvesting from condemned prisoners, despite promising not to multiple times in the past. This in itself is really bad, but falan gong tends to be being discredibilty to an otherwise credible problem.
mFixman 7y ago
This is a sample of the top posts in this domain. > Bomb-plotting extremist American soldier tried to join US-backed neo-Nazi militia in Ukraine > Following Grayzone exposé, top Venezuelan coup official Ricardo Hausmann is forced to resign > No, the UN did not report China has 'massive internment camps' for Uighur Muslims > How Venezuela defeated Washington's coup attempt at the United Nations Regardless of what the Falun Gong does, this is far from a non-biased source.
Hasknewbie 7y ago
Beware: TheGrayZone is an 'alternative news' Web site. The type who claims that Uighurs internment camps are anti-Chinese propaganda, Maduro criticism and opposition are US-funded anti-Venezuelian propaganda, etc. Just skim their site and you'll get the idea pretty quickly.
winkeyless 7y ago
If they were simply a religion or practice with a mixed Taoism and Buddhism origin and a god-like figure. That’s nothing uncommon in the history of humanity. It gets funnier to see when it protects its anti-China propaganda under the religious freedom in the West. There are plenty of people who consider Communist China evil. Again nothing wrong about that. But Falun Gong is a convenient political tool. Maybe in practice it’s really hard to separate religions with politics. Mind control and story telling are the most powerful things that can be done to men.

14 points by amaccuish 7y ago

When I lived in China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, it was no secret Falun Dafa (or Falun Gong — same thing) were nuts. They’re like the Scientology of Asia. Maybe a little weirder. They convinced my girlfriend’s Grandma she could solve her health concerns, anything from inflammation to cancer, with meditation and absolutely zero medicine. This of course ended with a hospital trip and Grandma’s swift departure from Falun Gong. I moved back to the States and kinda forgot about them. Five years go by, and I start seeing billboards for their origin-story-in-musical-form Shen Yun in every city I visit. Ok, that’s weird, but cults are gonna cult so whatever. I visit the Chinese embassy to get my visa approved and get a pamphlet from them that has the organ harvesting stuff. Also weird. Seemed like their presence is growing outside of Asia. Fast forward two more years and I now live in Seattle. There are literal Falun Gong parades going down the streets. The city events all have Falun booths. Random Americans have learned enough Chinese and Chinese music to stumble their way through Falun Gong’s anthems. I guess this is all just an anecdote. People are quick to trust them, because they advertise themselves as traditional Chinese art and culture, and they don’t have a bad rap here. These organ harvesting claims against China are enticing to believe, because it is popular to distrust the Chinese government (and deservedly so). But...take this group’s claims with a hefty bowl of salt.

selimthegrim 7y ago
In New Orleans they slid envelopes addressed to “Dear Neighbor” under everyone’s front door with an advertisement to Shen Yun inside
intopieces 7y ago
I'm somewhat familiar with Falun Gong. But I'm not sure I understand why it constitutes a "cult" -- this term seems unnecessarily loaded. The fact that your friend's grandmother was able to "swiftly depart” increases this suspicion for me. There are lots of religions in the world with weird practices, including some Christian sects that don't permit blood transfusions and some new-age groups that shun modern medicine.
- resters 7y ago
  There's not really any practical distinction between religions, cults, and political parties.
  - beisner 7y ago
    As the old saying goes, cult + time = religion.
- mugwort13 7y ago
  It’s not a cult. The Chinese government launched a massive campaign against Falun Gong in 1999. They said they would eradicate it in months. They don’t like anything that takes away from “the party”
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  I wouldn’t give those Christian sects a pass on not being cults. Falun gong has some weird beliefs, some of them very self destructive. Of course, the Chinese government doesn’t do itself any favors in their typical heavy handed approaches to information supremacy, making them an unreliable source, but that doesn’t mean they are wrong.
- sezna 7y ago
  These conversations frequently devolve into semantic debates over what a cult is. Some Christian groups are definitely cults. There are some signs of a cult that usually involve heavy recruiting and PR, a difficulty leaving, a rigid power structure, etc. I use the term lightly because I rarely talk to people who aren’t already familiar with Falun and don’t think they’re a cult. That is my bad, feel free to disregard that categorization. It isn’t pivotal to the anecdote I was relaying.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  The only Christian sect I know of that prohibits blood transfusions--Jehovah's Witnesses--are considered a cult, too. I share your concern about labeling as a distancing or othering tactic, though.
nyolfen 7y ago
the US has an interest in supporting dissident expat communities from rival regimes (eg the mke, a marxist cult of iranians). i wouldn’t be surprised if they received some amount of mysterious funding, maybe even in the form of shen yun ticket revenue.
- rudiv 7y ago
  I'm guessing you mean MEK, which is the mujahedin el khalq IIRC, but please, don't call them Marxist just because they may have professed Marxist beliefs decades ago. They've been a run of the mill personality cult for much longer than they've been Marxist, so it seems disingenuous to use that as their primary description.
mugwort13 7y ago
Please tell me why practicing truth, compassion and tolerance makes me a cult member. I have been practicing since 2005 and it has made my life nothing but better. I am kinder, more honest and more thoughtful. How is this a bad thing?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

pupppet 7y ago

Front groups or not, patients in China have an unnaturally short wait time for organs.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
They are not harvesting from falun gong people specifically, or probably not even coincidentally (organs from a bunch of older cult members with health problems are probably not very appealing). However, they are still harvesting from condemned prisoners, despite promising not to multiple times in the past. This in itself is really bad, but falan gong tends to be being discredibilty to an otherwise credible problem.

mFixman 7y ago

This is a sample of the top posts in this domain. > Bomb-plotting extremist American soldier tried to join US-backed neo-Nazi militia in Ukraine > Following Grayzone exposé, top Venezuelan coup official Ricardo Hausmann is forced to resign > No, the UN did not report China has 'massive internment camps' for Uighur Muslims > How Venezuela defeated Washington's coup attempt at the United Nations Regardless of what the Falun Gong does, this is far from a non-biased source.

Hasknewbie 7y ago

Beware: TheGrayZone is an 'alternative news' Web site. The type who claims that Uighurs internment camps are anti-Chinese propaganda, Maduro criticism and opposition are US-funded anti-Venezuelian propaganda, etc. Just skim their site and you'll get the idea pretty quickly.

winkeyless 7y ago

If they were simply a religion or practice with a mixed Taoism and Buddhism origin and a god-like figure. That’s nothing uncommon in the history of humanity. It gets funnier to see when it protects its anti-China propaganda under the religious freedom in the West. There are plenty of people who consider Communist China evil. Again nothing wrong about that. But Falun Gong is a convenient political tool. Maybe in practice it’s really hard to separate religions with politics. Mind control and story telling are the most powerful things that can be done to men.