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Nobody is entitled to go to Harvard and focusing on one institution does a disservice to folks (including Asian Americans like myself) who didn’t get into any e

Nobody is entitled to go to Harvard and focusing on one institution does a disservice to folks (including Asian Americans like myself) who didn’t get into any elite institutions unlike many of the plaintiffs

tathougies 7y ago
Indeed no one is entitled to go to Harvard, but Harvard is also not entitled to federal research grants that are being funded by taxing Asian Americans under the same laws as other Americans, so I guess we are at an impasse.
- wendyshu 7y ago
  I wonder how much public support there would be for ending the grants.
- CobrastanJorji 7y ago
  Harvard's endowment is around $40 billion. They're awarded about $600M in Federal grants per year. Though I'm sure they'd prefer to keep receiving them, they'd be just fine without them. It seems like turning down Federal grants and handling admissions as they like would satisfy everyone.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    I mean that's fine. I'm not out to get Harvard. They have every right to their private wealth. Just don't expect governmental recognition and public praise.
  - bluecalm 7y ago
    Would everyone be satisfied if a restaurant or a store discriminated based on race even if it doesn't take any federal funds? Racist policies are racist. Hopefully Supreme Court takes it and strikes it down.
  - travisoneill1 7y ago
    The real money is paid directly to students through federal student loans and then to the university.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      In order to qualify for the scholarship, a student must be attending a university recognized by the federal government. You can't get a government loan or aide to attend tathougies's super cool pottery school -- for good reason. Some educational institutions are illegitimate. And that is just scholarships. Harvard is a graduate institution, which means the federal government also funds research projects at the graduate school level.
      - travisoneill1 7y ago
        And I would argue that Harvard is also illegitimate as it practices racial discrimination. Guess we'll see if the supreme court agrees.
- hackinthebochs 7y ago
  >but Harvard is also not entitled to federal research grants There is no entitlement. The government is purchasing research for the money. There is no obvious connection between Harvard's undergrad admissions practices and the money Harvard gets for research.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    The obvious connection is who pays makes the rules. The US federal government uses access to Pell grants to motivate private educational institutions to do what they want, it can use access to any other funds to get Harvard to do what it wants, if it wants to. Obviously it won’t, because if banning ROTC from your university doesn’t get your access to federal funds cut off affirmative action certainly won’t but they could.
nostromo 7y ago
We have the Civil Rights Act which is supposed to prevent this sort of discrimination. Walmart, for example, couldn't refuse to serve black customers and then claim, "nobody is entitled to shop here."
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Walmart isn't Harvard. If it was, it would again be incredibly disrespectful to compare it as someone that "couldn't go to Walmart". Unlike Harvard, Walmart isn't exclusive by definition. Now, if a community college was accused of something like this (somehow), you have my rapt attention.
thereare5lights 7y ago
This adds nothing to the conversation because no one is saying that. People are saying that they're entitled to a fair opportunity to get in, not that they're entitled to get in period.
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  They got a fair shot. A judge just determined it. I got a fair shot. I didn't get in. Can the plaintiffs move on?
  - thereare5lights 7y ago
    > They got a fair shot. A judge just determined it. And what happens if the Supreme Court overrules that? Are you just going to blindly agree then too? > I got a fair shot. I didn't get in. Can the plaintiffs move on? How do you even know you got a fair shot. That's the whole point of this case. You're just blindly asserting that.
    - akhilcacharya 7y ago
      I didn't get into _any_ elite schools. That's a reflection on me. Elite schools judge 17 year olds by their future worth. That's perfectly fine by me. I was diligent enough in school to know that if I didn't do as well on a test I should blame myself for being lesser, not the institution.
      - thereare5lights 7y ago
        That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the system is rigged. You are giving a non-answer.
        akhilcacharya 7y ago
        The system isn't rigged if it's slightly harder (if even that!) to get into 1 school with a 4.7% acceptance rate. It's rigged if a hard working daughter of an immigrant has limited paths to social mobility because their community college is underfunded or because their Cal State school has too few slots for her major. That's when I'll say it's "rigged".

tathougies 7y ago

Indeed no one is entitled to go to Harvard, but Harvard is also not entitled to federal research grants that are being funded by taxing Asian Americans under the same laws as other Americans, so I guess we are at an impasse.

wendyshu 7y ago
I wonder how much public support there would be for ending the grants.
CobrastanJorji 7y ago
Harvard's endowment is around $40 billion. They're awarded about $600M in Federal grants per year. Though I'm sure they'd prefer to keep receiving them, they'd be just fine without them. It seems like turning down Federal grants and handling admissions as they like would satisfy everyone.
- tathougies 7y ago
  I mean that's fine. I'm not out to get Harvard. They have every right to their private wealth. Just don't expect governmental recognition and public praise.
- bluecalm 7y ago
  Would everyone be satisfied if a restaurant or a store discriminated based on race even if it doesn't take any federal funds? Racist policies are racist. Hopefully Supreme Court takes it and strikes it down.
- travisoneill1 7y ago
  The real money is paid directly to students through federal student loans and then to the university.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    In order to qualify for the scholarship, a student must be attending a university recognized by the federal government. You can't get a government loan or aide to attend tathougies's super cool pottery school -- for good reason. Some educational institutions are illegitimate. And that is just scholarships. Harvard is a graduate institution, which means the federal government also funds research projects at the graduate school level.
    - travisoneill1 7y ago
      And I would argue that Harvard is also illegitimate as it practices racial discrimination. Guess we'll see if the supreme court agrees.
hackinthebochs 7y ago
>but Harvard is also not entitled to federal research grants There is no entitlement. The government is purchasing research for the money. There is no obvious connection between Harvard's undergrad admissions practices and the money Harvard gets for research.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  The obvious connection is who pays makes the rules. The US federal government uses access to Pell grants to motivate private educational institutions to do what they want, it can use access to any other funds to get Harvard to do what it wants, if it wants to. Obviously it won’t, because if banning ROTC from your university doesn’t get your access to federal funds cut off affirmative action certainly won’t but they could.

nostromo 7y ago

We have the Civil Rights Act which is supposed to prevent this sort of discrimination. Walmart, for example, couldn't refuse to serve black customers and then claim, "nobody is entitled to shop here."

akhilcacharya 7y ago
Walmart isn't Harvard. If it was, it would again be incredibly disrespectful to compare it as someone that "couldn't go to Walmart". Unlike Harvard, Walmart isn't exclusive by definition. Now, if a community college was accused of something like this (somehow), you have my rapt attention.

thereare5lights 7y ago

This adds nothing to the conversation because no one is saying that. People are saying that they're entitled to a fair opportunity to get in, not that they're entitled to get in period.

akhilcacharya 7y ago
They got a fair shot. A judge just determined it. I got a fair shot. I didn't get in. Can the plaintiffs move on?
- thereare5lights 7y ago
  > They got a fair shot. A judge just determined it. And what happens if the Supreme Court overrules that? Are you just going to blindly agree then too? > I got a fair shot. I didn't get in. Can the plaintiffs move on? How do you even know you got a fair shot. That's the whole point of this case. You're just blindly asserting that.
  - akhilcacharya 7y ago
    I didn't get into _any_ elite schools. That's a reflection on me. Elite schools judge 17 year olds by their future worth. That's perfectly fine by me. I was diligent enough in school to know that if I didn't do as well on a test I should blame myself for being lesser, not the institution.
    - thereare5lights 7y ago
      That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the system is rigged. You are giving a non-answer.
      - akhilcacharya 7y ago
        The system isn't rigged if it's slightly harder (if even that!) to get into 1 school with a 4.7% acceptance rate. It's rigged if a hard working daughter of an immigrant has limited paths to social mobility because their community college is underfunded or because their Cal State school has too few slots for her major. That's when I'll say it's "rigged".