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Other comments here incorrectly pointing out that Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China - they do. And why wouldn't they, it's obviously much cheaper to

Other comments here incorrectly pointing out that Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China - they do. And why wouldn't they, it's obviously much cheaper to manufacture there given material and labor costs. Obviously they don't manufacture highly sensitive military aircraft in China, but commercial aircraft, sure why not. What they don't do is the design, testing, and certification in China. This is the real IP - not the materials or the assembly techniques, but how to navigate the regulatory landscape of the FAA and the EASA in extremely complex hardware/software integrated systems. The article mentions certification documents/evidence as a primary target. The funny thing in all this is that passengers inherently trust the FAA and EASA operated system and inherently do not trust a Chinese-owned, manufactured, and regulated system for commercial aircraft. When really this breach was all about the money - Chinese companies want to get in on Boeing and Airbus' market. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will say that Boeing isn't doing itself any favors with it's cost cutting efforts on the 737 MAX, and that if it wants to keep consumers trust in its planes over the perception of "inferior" foreign competition, it needs to work much more closely with the FAA to ensure safety is the primary motivating factor on new designs and does not get overriden by fuel efficiency.

bagacrap 7y ago
On the Boeing facility: "Work at the facility was limited to the plane’s interior, including installing seats and other cabin equipment. More responsibilities will be added over time, such as painting the exterior, but the center is primarily meant for completion and delivery, with the main manufacturing remaining in the US."
benhurmarcel 7y ago
They manufacture in China not mainly because it's cheaper (lots of places are cheaper than their home countries), but because it's the only way to get a significant part of the large Chinese market. > inherently do not trust a Chinese-owned, manufactured, and regulated system for commercial aircraft This is true, but it was also true for European airliners in the US at a time. And it took time and effort, but it changed.
markdown 7y ago
> it needs to work much more closely with the FAA Some would argue that working too closely with the FAA is the problem.
jacquesm 7y ago
> The funny thing in all this is that passengers inherently trust the FAA Not anymore.
- master-litty 7y ago
  Anecdata: Not true. Most people aren't even aware of recent events. My circle of friends is a pretty wide net and only one coworker knows about the Boeing nonsense, and he admitted it was because of Hacker News.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Surely people have noticed the thousands of cancelled flights?
    - OJFord 7y ago
      If you've already missed it in the news, you're certainly only going to notice your own cancelled flight.
    - PakG1 7y ago
      How many people do you know who frequently took flights right at the time when this was all happening? If I were not an avid reader of the news, I'd have no clue. Before this, I also would not have cared to check what airplane my flight was when I did fly.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > How many people do you know who frequently took flights right at the time when this was all happening? They’re still being cancelled daily now! I know AA alone is cancelling over 100 flights a day. It’s not something in the past.
        notacoward 7y ago
        Are they canceling those flights, or are they not offering them? It's a big difference. People notice when a flight they've already booked is canceled. They don't notice flights that were never shown to them in the first place. I fly regularly between Boston and Seattle. I've noticed that my choice of flights is less than it was, but if I were a less regular flier on that route I'd have no idea that the selection was even reduced let alone of the reasons.
mc32 7y ago
Russia has expertise building airliners. Wonder why manufacturers never took to producing there for cheap labor? My guess is China leveraged their market potential to entice cos to take some of their mfg to China.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Russian industry was taken over by the mafia. That is much less tenable than the situation with China.
  - eternalban 7y ago
    http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Pseudoscience/harvard_mafia.shtml http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Pseudoscience/harvard_m... Somehow I sense you did not intend irony. [main stream version: https://www.thenation.com/article/harvard-boys-do-russia/ https://www.thenation.com/article/harvard-boys-do-russia/]
lathiat 7y ago
This video from Wendover Productions discusses specifically that they setup "finishing" centers in China for the planes they are selling into China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjbYloKJX7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjbYloKJX7c
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
avocado4 7y ago
Article about Chinese government stealing Airbus property and here we go derailing it towards Boeing.

bagacrap 7y ago

On the Boeing facility: "Work at the facility was limited to the plane’s interior, including installing seats and other cabin equipment. More responsibilities will be added over time, such as painting the exterior, but the center is primarily meant for completion and delivery, with the main manufacturing remaining in the US."

benhurmarcel 7y ago

They manufacture in China not mainly because it's cheaper (lots of places are cheaper than their home countries), but because it's the only way to get a significant part of the large Chinese market. > inherently do not trust a Chinese-owned, manufactured, and regulated system for commercial aircraft This is true, but it was also true for European airliners in the US at a time. And it took time and effort, but it changed.

markdown 7y ago

> it needs to work much more closely with the FAA Some would argue that working too closely with the FAA is the problem.

jacquesm 7y ago

> The funny thing in all this is that passengers inherently trust the FAA Not anymore.

master-litty 7y ago
Anecdata: Not true. Most people aren't even aware of recent events. My circle of friends is a pretty wide net and only one coworker knows about the Boeing nonsense, and he admitted it was because of Hacker News.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Surely people have noticed the thousands of cancelled flights?
  - OJFord 7y ago
    If you've already missed it in the news, you're certainly only going to notice your own cancelled flight.
  - PakG1 7y ago
    How many people do you know who frequently took flights right at the time when this was all happening? If I were not an avid reader of the news, I'd have no clue. Before this, I also would not have cared to check what airplane my flight was when I did fly.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > How many people do you know who frequently took flights right at the time when this was all happening? They’re still being cancelled daily now! I know AA alone is cancelling over 100 flights a day. It’s not something in the past.
      - notacoward 7y ago
        Are they canceling those flights, or are they not offering them? It's a big difference. People notice when a flight they've already booked is canceled. They don't notice flights that were never shown to them in the first place. I fly regularly between Boston and Seattle. I've noticed that my choice of flights is less than it was, but if I were a less regular flier on that route I'd have no idea that the selection was even reduced let alone of the reasons.

mc32 7y ago

Russia has expertise building airliners. Wonder why manufacturers never took to producing there for cheap labor? My guess is China leveraged their market potential to entice cos to take some of their mfg to China.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Russian industry was taken over by the mafia. That is much less tenable than the situation with China.
- eternalban 7y ago
  http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Pseudoscience/harvard_mafia.shtml http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Pseudoscience/harvard_m... Somehow I sense you did not intend irony. [main stream version: https://www.thenation.com/article/harvard-boys-do-russia/ https://www.thenation.com/article/harvard-boys-do-russia/]

lathiat 7y ago

This video from Wendover Productions discusses specifically that they setup "finishing" centers in China for the planes they are selling into China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjbYloKJX7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjbYloKJX7c

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

avocado4 7y ago

Article about Chinese government stealing Airbus property and here we go derailing it towards Boeing.