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I guess this study gives credence to the relatively old idea that modern bad health (chronic inflammation, cardiovascular diseases, dental problems, etc.) is dr
by sleavey 7y ago
I guess this study gives credence to the relatively old idea that modern bad health (chronic inflammation, cardiovascular diseases, dental problems, etc.) is driven by the high levels of carbohydrate and linoleic acid (omega 6, found in large quantities in sunflower and other seed oils) in our diets and not the traditionally "bad" foodstuffs like red meat and foods containing high cholesterol and saturated fat.
I'm looking forward to the next few years in this field, because it seems like scientists are slowly working out what's wrong with our diets, and it seems like it's not (solely) the meat and dairy we're eating.
- asdf21 7y agoI've known this for years, and own a restaurant that serves all of our fried food cooked in beef tallow rather than seed oils. Everyone loves the taste of the food, I guess our fries ruin other chains for people.
- sleavey 7y agoThe thing that really irks me about seed oils is that humans find it difficult to taste when it's rancid. I wonder how many of the long shelf life products filled with sunflower oil are actually rancid, or how many fast food restaurants use oil long past its normal life without anyone being able to tell.
- inetknght 7y agoAs far as I understand, Rancid just means it doesn't taste as good as it should but generally doesn't otherwise result in less-healthy or less-nutritious food. Am I incorrect?
- sleavey 7y agoI'm not an expert, but I think rancid oil is oxidised oil and thus acts like any oxidised chemical: it tries to steal an electron from somewhere else, including inside our bodies - "free radicals" - which can damage things like our DNA. There's also some link to how it can change the behaviour of proton gradients in our cells (I read about it a while ago in "The Vital Question" by Nick Lane) but I'm sketchy on the exact details.
- inetknght 7y agoBut that oxidation would occur anyway whether it's on a shelf over time or inside of our body... wouldn't it?
- sleavey 7y agoThe high temperatures used to fry foods accelerates oxidation. Repeatedly using the same oil to fry foods at high temperatures (such as in factories and restaurants) leads to greater oxidation. Long shelf life food often has oil or was fried in oil that was heated to high temperatures. However, just leaving oil long enough exposed to air will also lead to oxidation, just at a slower rate (though I think highly refined oils, like those used not for cooking, have a slower or negligible oxidation rate "in air" but are usually not edible).
- p10_user 7y agoIf it’s already oxidized it’s not trying to steal any electrons - the oxygen already has. Case in point - CO2 is the most oxidized form of carbon and is very low energy and nonreactive.
- dnhz 7y agoIt depends on the chemical. CO2 is not electrophilic, but something like an aldehyde, typically biochemically formed by oxidation, is electrophilic and reactive. The body biochemically oxidizes ethanol to acetaldehyde, whose reactivity gives it carcinogenic properties. Toxic aldehydes formed when fats degrade include acrolein and malondialdehyde: "Malondialdehyde results from lipid peroxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids." 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malondialdehyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malondialdehyde
- saagarjha 7y agoIf you can’t tell, why does it matter whether it’s rancid or not?
- kortex 7y agoMight be one of those genetic things, or conditioned response. I'm extremely sensitive to the oxidized oil note. But my partner doesn't really notice it until it's gag-inducing to me. E.g. I can't eat mixed nuts if they have been opened more than a few days (regardless of how well re-sealed)
- sleavey 7y agoInteresting! Yes, possibly genes have some role here. Alternatively I've heard that your taste is affected by your body nutrient levels. A friend of mine found they could not taste zinc sulfate until they started supplementing it. Once they supplemented it, it tasted really bitter.
- jackfoxy 7y agoMcDonald's used to fry fries in beef tallow, but caved to the settled health science of the day in 1983. Here's the recipe to fry your own. https://grannysvitalvittles.com/stovetop-beef-tallow-french-fries/ https://grannysvitalvittles.com/stovetop-beef-tallow-french-...
- asdf21 7y agoYep, we tell people that all the time. We do our fries like McDonalds did in the fifties.
- thrownblown 7y agoCheckout Malcolm Gladwells podcast regarding how MickieDees abandoned the beef fat. http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/19-mcdonalds-broke-my-heart http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/19-mcdonalds-broke-my...
- lazyasciiart 7y agoI don't know why that site thinks it happened in 1983, but McDonalds stopped using beef tallow for fries in 1990 (in the US) because a really rich guy decided they should and was willing to put millions of dollars into making that happen. Phil Sokolof obituary - https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-apr-16-me-sokolof16-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-apr-16-me-sokol...
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y agoThe body doesn't need carbohydrates to function. If you consume exclusively fats and protein (with very low levels of carbohydrates: less than 25g/day), the process of ketosis will kick in: your body will start converting fats to ketone bodies, specifically beta-hydroxy-butyrate, which as used as energy in the brain, heart, etc. instead of glucose.
- coldtea 7y agoOr that's a half-understood idea some push [1], mostly looking into first order effects, and unaware of the bigger picture (except from cherry-picking this or that pro-keto study, which are themselves a dime a dozen, like most nutrition studies are). [1] Nutrition in general, is at this point scientifically half-understood. Science has tons of things it still tries to understand and needs to explain on nutrition...
- njarboe 7y agoOne thing I think that people should be more aware of is that nutrition advice that has a small significance in large studies might be recommended for the general population by health officials, but could be something that is actually bad for you personally. It will be great if we can get a better understanding of nutrition for individual people based on their own genetics, body weight, lifestyle, etc.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y agoThe process of converting fats to ketone bodies, and the body using those ketones as energy, is a well-understood process.
- coldtea 7y ago>The process of converting fats to ketone bodies, and the body using those ketones as energy, is a well-understood process. Only at the high level and first order effects. The idea that this is OK as a diet, and the tradeoffs long term, is a not-well understood process with tons of pro and con papers, as is most of nutrition science.
- sparrc 7y agoIs this an 'old' idea? In this context isn't the 'old' idea that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for you? How does this hypothesis deal with the fact that vegans and vegetarians have lower levels of cardiovascular disease, lower blood cholesterol, and lower risk of diabetes (honest question, I'd assume that vegans and vegetarians generally eat much more carbs)?
- the_watcher 7y agoIf being a vegan/vegetarian is highly correlated with "cares about health," the types of carbs they consume would likely be different, they may be more likely to exercise, and they may be more likely to eat in moderation.
- sparrc 7y agoLots of people say this to me but I've never seen evidence that it's true. In my experience most vegans don't do it for health reasons. That being said I do agree that there are huge differences in types of carbs consumed....but that only goes to say that the problem isn't simply 'carbs', it's processed sugars.
- remarkEon 7y agoI have never seen a vegan who is what I would consider "fit" - and my standard is not necessarily an elite athlete, but, let's say, "able to handle themselves in a bar fight". Frankly a lot of them look rather sickly. I have however met a lot of people who are Paleo or Carnivore who are in incredible shape. I'm inclined to believe that at least some of this is cultural - Paleo/Carnivore folks tend to be more strict and disciplined about their fitness anyway, and do different workouts - and some of it is indeed due to diet.
- sparrc 7y agoSorry this just made me lol, lookup "gamechangers" and watch the trailer.
- Fr0styMatt88 7y agoAs someone trying to lose weight, all the conflicting advice out there is so frustrating. Should I eat ‘n’ times a day or just once? Is fasting good, or will it put me in ‘starvation mode’? Why is it that when I was young I didn’t even need to think about my food intake and stayed really, really lean? Do we have a set-point and if so, has mine gone up and am I going to be forever hungry if I want to get back to a sensible weight? Do antidepressants cause weight gain, or don’t they? Is there a way we can measure actual calories-in with a device? Sorry, just needed to vent.
- p10_user 7y agoYou know you have to eat less. Counting your calories with a food journal is a very successful way to keep yourself accountable for how much you’re eating. Any special diet or strategy is making it more complicated than it is.
- ses1984 7y agoSome of us find it incredibly hard, almost impossible, to just eat less. Also some would argue that keeping a food journal and measuring every calorie you eat is far more complicated than special diets like "don't eat carbs" which are successful for some people without measuring or recording anything.
- amanaplanacanal 7y agoNot sure why you are getting downvoted. Counting calories is fairly simple if you are eating fast food or out of packages. I found it to be a huge pain in the ass when eating whole foods.
- bittercynic 7y agoThat's an unfortunate alignment, because those foods that are packaged and marked with calorie counts are the very ones that are more likely to leave you wanting to eat more calories than you need. Whole foods are harder to get an accurate count for, but seem to leave me feeling full after consuming a more reasonable number of calories.
- chrisdhoover 7y agoOver the years we have heard categorical statements of what food is beneficial and what is detrimental. Only problem is the beneficial and detrimental flip back and forth. I doubt any thing put forth after 50 years of really bad advice from the government, doctors, nutritionists, PBS fundraisers, and your crazy sister in law.