4 ms·

One of the most frustrating things is when SE modes decide to deputize themselves on behalf of third parties, and try to enforce the laws of other countries or

One of the most frustrating things is when SE modes decide to deputize themselves on behalf of third parties, and try to enforce the laws of other countries or the intellectual property rights of decades old software. I've seen questions about how to bypass DRM on 20 year old software deleted. And why do they assume that the DMCA applies in other countries? What if you are asking how to build an unauthorized media player in a market where it is not for sale anyway? I remember in like 2011, someone asked how to virtualize OSX Tiger on a non Apple host because they needed to use this proprietary software for their business. The top answer was that it was 100% impossible to do this (not true) and that they were a horrible human being for even considering it because it violated Apple's TOS. I've also seen this happen when people want to do things like retrieve music that they paid for off of their devices. I have heard that in Saudi Arabia husbands have a legal right to monitor their wives communications. So if a Saudi woman posted on SE asking how to remove a keylogger her husband installed, would it be deleted for violating local law? Or what if a Saudi woman simply wanted help cracking the Google authorized wife-tracking app[1], so she could flee? That would be violating local laws, and upsetting Google. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/693994447/apple-google-criticized-for-carrying-app-that-lets-saudi-men-track-their-wives https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/693994447/apple-google-critic...

marcosdumay 7y ago
> And why do they assume that the DMCA applies in other countries? The company is on the US, so it would be illegal for them to keep the answer.
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  Not sure why you're downvoted. I don't know that your statement is 100% accurate, but it's not far off the mark, either. The law in the US is such that a high-profile site that does business in the USA, like SO, is entirely reasonable if it wants to to err on the side of caution on these things. Not all the questions around the DMCA have been settled by the courts, so, no, we can't necessarily say for sure what is legal and illegal. But we can say that volunteering to help everyone to figure this out could be a very expensive proposition. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Linking_to_infringing_content https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_A...
  - apostacy 7y ago
    Actually in the case of breaking DRM potentially in violation of the DMCA, they have relaxed things a bit[1]. I do remember that they would delete any discussion of cracking DRM. But my bigger point is that they essentially act as toadies when they are not obligated to. I think it is actually worse when they try to act as enforcement agents of behalf of terms of service for corporations that they have no relationship with. And there is no moral context considered. What if a Saudi woman being held hostage wanted technical information to escape and seek refuge in another country, but doing so violated some company's TOS? I am certain that SO would side against the woman, because of their narrow and sycophantic attitude. For example, I was enrolled in the Meego developer program in 2011, and was given a free Exo Tab tablet from Intel. When the project was canceled, I was supposed to destroy the tablet after one year. Intel technically retained ownership of the tablets on paper, so that developers would not have to pay taxes on them. So, I posted, asking to find out how I could get the specialized drivers and interface software for Windows 7 on the device. But the mods decided that they should act as agents on behalf of Intel and the US Internal Revenue Service, even though nobody else cared. I asked a simple technical question about where I could hypothetically get software for hardware I was in possession of. A representative from Intel assured me that Intel had no plans to enforce this agreement, and it was merely on paper so that we did not have to pay taxes. Additionally, I seriously doubt that the IRS would want to track me down and fine me for not paying taxes on the $700 tablet I received. And the development program was canceled anyway, so why not put it to other use? And how do they know I was not going to honor my agreement and destroy it anyway?? But no, the toadies on SO decided that just in case I wouldn't honor my trivial agreement with Intel and just in case I wouldn't pay taxes, they would prevent further discussion of it. How could they possibly know my intentions? Nobody asked them to interpret the intentions of Intel and do what they think is their bidding for them! They are a bunch of toadies who way overstep their bounds. [1]: https://meta.superuser.com/questions/2212/is-discussion-of-techniques-for-removing-drm-permitted/2215 https://meta.superuser.com/questions/2212/is-discussion-of-t...
    - marcosdumay 7y ago
      I've noticed you didn't post this under your real name... You are asking a company to help you do something illegal, on writing and published to the entire world in a high visibility site. Do you really thing they shouldn't reserve the right to deny help? The DMCA bothers me a lot, because on my country I have the right to remove restrictions on anything I own, yet it's hard to find a safe forum to discuss how to do it without it being taken down for some commercial reason. But it's really undeserved entitlement to expect other people to risk themselves helping you.

marcosdumay 7y ago

> And why do they assume that the DMCA applies in other countries? The company is on the US, so it would be illegal for them to keep the answer.

mumblemumble 7y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted. I don't know that your statement is 100% accurate, but it's not far off the mark, either. The law in the US is such that a high-profile site that does business in the USA, like SO, is entirely reasonable if it wants to to err on the side of caution on these things. Not all the questions around the DMCA have been settled by the courts, so, no, we can't necessarily say for sure what is legal and illegal. But we can say that volunteering to help everyone to figure this out could be a very expensive proposition. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Linking_to_infringing_content https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_A...
- apostacy 7y ago
  Actually in the case of breaking DRM potentially in violation of the DMCA, they have relaxed things a bit[1]. I do remember that they would delete any discussion of cracking DRM. But my bigger point is that they essentially act as toadies when they are not obligated to. I think it is actually worse when they try to act as enforcement agents of behalf of terms of service for corporations that they have no relationship with. And there is no moral context considered. What if a Saudi woman being held hostage wanted technical information to escape and seek refuge in another country, but doing so violated some company's TOS? I am certain that SO would side against the woman, because of their narrow and sycophantic attitude. For example, I was enrolled in the Meego developer program in 2011, and was given a free Exo Tab tablet from Intel. When the project was canceled, I was supposed to destroy the tablet after one year. Intel technically retained ownership of the tablets on paper, so that developers would not have to pay taxes on them. So, I posted, asking to find out how I could get the specialized drivers and interface software for Windows 7 on the device. But the mods decided that they should act as agents on behalf of Intel and the US Internal Revenue Service, even though nobody else cared. I asked a simple technical question about where I could hypothetically get software for hardware I was in possession of. A representative from Intel assured me that Intel had no plans to enforce this agreement, and it was merely on paper so that we did not have to pay taxes. Additionally, I seriously doubt that the IRS would want to track me down and fine me for not paying taxes on the $700 tablet I received. And the development program was canceled anyway, so why not put it to other use? And how do they know I was not going to honor my agreement and destroy it anyway?? But no, the toadies on SO decided that just in case I wouldn't honor my trivial agreement with Intel and just in case I wouldn't pay taxes, they would prevent further discussion of it. How could they possibly know my intentions? Nobody asked them to interpret the intentions of Intel and do what they think is their bidding for them! They are a bunch of toadies who way overstep their bounds. [1]: https://meta.superuser.com/questions/2212/is-discussion-of-techniques-for-removing-drm-permitted/2215 https://meta.superuser.com/questions/2212/is-discussion-of-t...
  - marcosdumay 7y ago
    I've noticed you didn't post this under your real name... You are asking a company to help you do something illegal, on writing and published to the entire world in a high visibility site. Do you really thing they shouldn't reserve the right to deny help? The DMCA bothers me a lot, because on my country I have the right to remove restrictions on anything I own, yet it's hard to find a safe forum to discuss how to do it without it being taken down for some commercial reason. But it's really undeserved entitlement to expect other people to risk themselves helping you.