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So the major points are dropping 32bit support and Apple forcing you to sign your executable? The author claims that you need to pay Apple for the signing. as

So the major points are dropping 32bit support and Apple forcing you to sign your executable? The author claims that you need to pay Apple for the signing. as far as I know this is not true. You just need to pay for being on the application stores ...

dexter0 7y ago
You have to pay the $99/yr to be in the developer program, to access to the notarization service.
- jchw 7y ago
  Also I heard that you need fairly new Mac hardware to actually use the notarization service. Now try to integrate it with your CI, because the feedback that the notarization is complete is sent via email. (FWIW: I don’t have first-hand experience, though I still have an Apple developer license. Probably won’t renew.)
  - lstamour 7y ago
    You’re not kidding about the email. It’s email or manual polling, no webhooks. Strange. Well, I can suddenly imagine a lot of CI servers will be running SMTP. ;-) > After uploading your app, the notarization process typically takes less than an hour. When the process completes, you receive an email indicating the outcome. Additionally, you can use altool with the notarization-history flag to inspect the status of all of your notarization requests https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution/customizing_the_notarization_workflow https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_y...
    - judge2020 7y ago
      Electron-notarize polls: https://github.com/electron/electron-notarize/blob/b3156157f8e5e9fbddac9c5b250f97f9e0d7e5f0/src/index.ts#L83 https://github.com/electron/electron-notarize/blob/b3156157f...
  - dunham 7y ago
    I've scripted this for work, but it does have to run on a mac (for me a late 2013 Macbook pro), which would make it difficult to do in the cloud. There is a utility (written in Java) that you run through "xcrun" that can upload, check status, fetch and "staple" the result. It usually turns around within 15 minutes for me, but I haven't measured the exact time. (I'm just polling every five minutes.) Check the "log" file, because it can successfully notarize and then report in the log that your signatures are all screwed up. Details here if anyone needs to do this: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution/customizing_the_notarization_workflow https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_y...
    - jchw 7y ago
      I’ve long given up on supporting macOS.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
      Actually, that feels like a bigger issue: Does all of this have to run on a mac? That basically precludes build farms, since Apple doesn't make the xserve line anymore and doesn't play nice with virtualization. I guess you could build a farm of desktops...
  - mackey 7y ago
    I am not a Mac developer, but this doc https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin... claims you need 10.13 or above, which seems to run on 2009-2010 hardware. I know the latest version of Xcode 10 requires 10.14, but even that is about ~2012 hardware and newer. I think the upcoming 10.15 also has the same hardware requirements as 10.14. Anyway, even if we say 10.14, I wouldn't call 2012 models fairly new.
jayd16 7y ago
If it's anything like iOS dev, you need Apple hardware to access the tools to sign your builds. You can't just run osx in a VM.
- lstamour 7y ago
  You could potentially outsource the signing to a CI service that has the requisite Apple hardware though.
- AndriyKunitsyn 7y ago
  Well, you can... using hacked VMware and Hackintosh tools, it's just illegal :)
trothamel 7y ago
You have to pay for the signing. You also have to wait several minutes for the notarization process to finish, and submit every program to Apple.
- new_realist 7y ago
  All malware checkers must read the app binary to be effective. Apple forces the app to be scanned once, not one million times on one million desktops.
  - trothamel 7y ago
    Apple also forces every single app for macOS to be submitted to them. Seeing as how Apple has historically been willing to compete with the applications on their platform, that seems to at least have the potential to be a problem.
    - johncolanduoni 7y ago
      If they want to use your compiled binary to compete with you somehow, buying one copy per app they want to put out of business seems like a better option instead of setting up a whole notirization scheme to trick you into uploading it to them.
- yardie 7y ago
  I paid hundreds of dollars for a Windows codesigning certificate. The Apple developer program is a relative bargain. If $99/year is stopping the developer this developer I’m not really sure what to say.
- princekolt 7y ago
  Notarization is free and in my experience it can take as little as 60 seconds for it to complete. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin...
  - 7y ago
ldrndll 7y ago
I assume this refers to having an Apple Developer account, which is USD99 a year. Some of the points may be valid - support costs versus expected revenue, etc, but mostly these points seem really weak. The headlines feels like it should be “Sorry macOS users, it doesn’t make sense for me to support macOS”. The rest seems like a bit of clickbaity hyperbole and throwing in a bunch of semi-related arguments.

dexter0 7y ago

You have to pay the $99/yr to be in the developer program, to access to the notarization service.

jchw 7y ago
Also I heard that you need fairly new Mac hardware to actually use the notarization service. Now try to integrate it with your CI, because the feedback that the notarization is complete is sent via email. (FWIW: I don’t have first-hand experience, though I still have an Apple developer license. Probably won’t renew.)
- lstamour 7y ago
  You’re not kidding about the email. It’s email or manual polling, no webhooks. Strange. Well, I can suddenly imagine a lot of CI servers will be running SMTP. ;-) > After uploading your app, the notarization process typically takes less than an hour. When the process completes, you receive an email indicating the outcome. Additionally, you can use altool with the notarization-history flag to inspect the status of all of your notarization requests https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution/customizing_the_notarization_workflow https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_y...
  - judge2020 7y ago
    Electron-notarize polls: https://github.com/electron/electron-notarize/blob/b3156157f8e5e9fbddac9c5b250f97f9e0d7e5f0/src/index.ts#L83 https://github.com/electron/electron-notarize/blob/b3156157f...
- dunham 7y ago
  I've scripted this for work, but it does have to run on a mac (for me a late 2013 Macbook pro), which would make it difficult to do in the cloud. There is a utility (written in Java) that you run through "xcrun" that can upload, check status, fetch and "staple" the result. It usually turns around within 15 minutes for me, but I haven't measured the exact time. (I'm just polling every five minutes.) Check the "log" file, because it can successfully notarize and then report in the log that your signatures are all screwed up. Details here if anyone needs to do this: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution/customizing_the_notarization_workflow https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_y...
  - jchw 7y ago
    I’ve long given up on supporting macOS.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    Actually, that feels like a bigger issue: Does all of this have to run on a mac? That basically precludes build farms, since Apple doesn't make the xserve line anymore and doesn't play nice with virtualization. I guess you could build a farm of desktops...
- mackey 7y ago
  I am not a Mac developer, but this doc https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin... claims you need 10.13 or above, which seems to run on 2009-2010 hardware. I know the latest version of Xcode 10 requires 10.14, but even that is about ~2012 hardware and newer. I think the upcoming 10.15 also has the same hardware requirements as 10.14. Anyway, even if we say 10.14, I wouldn't call 2012 models fairly new.

jayd16 7y ago

If it's anything like iOS dev, you need Apple hardware to access the tools to sign your builds. You can't just run osx in a VM.

lstamour 7y ago
You could potentially outsource the signing to a CI service that has the requisite Apple hardware though.
AndriyKunitsyn 7y ago
Well, you can... using hacked VMware and Hackintosh tools, it's just illegal :)

trothamel 7y ago

You have to pay for the signing. You also have to wait several minutes for the notarization process to finish, and submit every program to Apple.

new_realist 7y ago
All malware checkers must read the app binary to be effective. Apple forces the app to be scanned once, not one million times on one million desktops.
- trothamel 7y ago
  Apple also forces every single app for macOS to be submitted to them. Seeing as how Apple has historically been willing to compete with the applications on their platform, that seems to at least have the potential to be a problem.
  - johncolanduoni 7y ago
    If they want to use your compiled binary to compete with you somehow, buying one copy per app they want to put out of business seems like a better option instead of setting up a whole notirization scheme to trick you into uploading it to them.
yardie 7y ago
I paid hundreds of dollars for a Windows codesigning certificate. The Apple developer program is a relative bargain. If $99/year is stopping the developer this developer I’m not really sure what to say.
princekolt 7y ago
Notarization is free and in my experience it can take as little as 60 seconds for it to complete. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin...
- 7y ago

ldrndll 7y ago

I assume this refers to having an Apple Developer account, which is USD99 a year. Some of the points may be valid - support costs versus expected revenue, etc, but mostly these points seem really weak. The headlines feels like it should be “Sorry macOS users, it doesn’t make sense for me to support macOS”. The rest seems like a bit of clickbaity hyperbole and throwing in a bunch of semi-related arguments.