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"You are still responsible for your car and must monitor it and its surroundings at times within your line of sight because it may not detect all obstacles. Be

"You are still responsible for your car and must monitor it and its surroundings at times within your line of sight because it may not detect all obstacles. Be especially careful around quick moving people, bicycles, and cars." Is this a joke? I have huge respect for Tesla and SpaceX, but how do they expect to release a feature that will self-drive a car (even tiny distance) and someone will oversee a moving car? The software engineer in me just died.

m3kw9 7y ago
If you think harder about not, no one really turns on autopilot except on main roads or highways, hence almost no training data. Parking lots is like a big rectangular area with stuff moving all over. So with more training data, they should have it down, but these incidents gonna lower their rates of getting training data. Is a chicken and egg problem.
- occamrazor 7y ago
  And if the pharma companies didn’t have to abide by ethical guidelines for clinical trials they could collect more data. There are good reasons to forbid that.
- petters 7y ago
  I thought Tesla collected training data everywhere all the time?
  - froh 7y ago
    And they shadow test while hooman is driving.
loceng 7y ago
It's not unreasonable to assume someone will have a line of sight for where a vehicle is being summoned from, just like when in the vehicle itself and you drive forward you're paying attention to its surroundings as well. I have seen some videos released with summons that just a quick horn honk would have likely prevented another driver backing up their vehicle from bumping into, with enough force to do some front bumper damage, a Tesla being summoned in a parking lot; it moves slowly too, and that could also be a factor in surrounding drivers not gauging or having the same kinds of reactions.
- ksherlock 7y ago
  Ever walk up to your car in the parking lot then realize... that's not your car? Now identify your car from across the parking lot. In California, where every other car is a ticky tacky Tesla (and they all look just the same). There are already anecdotes of people wondering why their car isn't summoning only to realize ... that's not their car.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > In California, where every other car is a ticky tacky Tesla I live in California, and if I see five Teslas in a day it's an unusual cluster. Now, Silicon Valley probably has a greater proportion of Teslas, but Silicon Valley isn't typical of the state.
    - eclipxe 7y ago
      I’m in Orange County and I usually see 8-12 on a short drive. Easily 30-40 across a normal day with a 15 minute commute.
      - ultrasounder 7y ago
        Live in SV and my commute i see average of 30 M3s, about 10 S and 5 X mostly on 101. Also i see about 5 delivery truck packing about 5 cars each every day. Thats a lot of cars.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
      Really? Even just during my 10 minute walk to work in Minneapolis, MN I'll probably see five every day.
    - jumpingmice 7y ago
      Why do people say that highly populous areas are “not typical”?
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
natch 7y ago
As you should know as a software developer, development of major new capabilities is an incremental process, and for something like self driving cars it’s expected that there will be a transitional period before self driving. Summon in parking lots is a good transitional step. Remember Tesla is not just training cars here; humans also need to learn to deal and not freak out. There will be fender benders along the way. Most of them probably caused by other drivers, but bugs are also a possibility.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >As you should know as a software developer, development of major new capabilities is an incremental process Hopefully software developers with such an idea are not allowed in medical devices, aviation, missile guidance, space industry, industry robotics, and automobile...
  - natch 7y ago
    Developments in all the areas you mention start with baby steps and incrementally progress toward greater and greater capabilities. This should not be news to anyone here.
    - kybernetikos 7y ago
      Sure, but usually we don't let Joe Blogs control it or even get in it or near it until there's a level of reliability and safety in its behaviour.
      - natch 7y ago
        I think you’ll find that the behavior that is unreliable here is that of other drivers, not the technology. So what you’re saying doesn’t apply in this situation. Even if it did apply, I believe the technology is safe and reliable, because from what I have seen Tesla does extremely extensive testing. So this meets your filter as ready to be released to the public.
modzu 7y ago
of course its unreasonable, but thats a liability clause added by a lawyer.
- JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
  How is it unreasonable if the things are already having collisions? This looks like a half-baked feature not even close to ready to be pushed out. Tesla is becoming a meme at this point and it has to be coming from the erratic man at the top. An engineer worth anything wouldn’t launch something like this. Sorry if I’m fired up about this but he just reminds me of a bad boss I had that only cared about hype and how things looked and expected the laws of mathematics and physics to bow to his delusions.
  - natch 7y ago
    It’s possible many of these collisions are caused by other drivers. I mean even parked cars get hit by drivers every day. There is a bit of news hysteria effect happening here.
    - eclipxe 7y ago
      There’s literally only two examples in the post and one is an example of the car stopping before a collision. The other example is another car backing into the Tesla.
    - patcheudor 7y ago
      In the first video from the article, the Tesla would be found to be at fault in most jurisdictions as the driver backing out was well into the backing out maneuver before the Tesla even rounded the corner. The Tesla without question did not have the right away at that point.
      - URSpider94 7y ago
        In most jurisdictions, the vehicle traveling in reverse is always the give-way vehicle. Practically, I expect that the insurance companies would agree to each pay their own driver’s costs and count it as an at-fault accident on both sides.
coldtea 7y ago
>Is this a joke? I have huge respect for Tesla and SpaceX, but how do they expect to release a feature that will self-drive a car (even tiny distance) and someone will oversee a moving car? Think of it as a marketing/business idea (let's sell this "advanced technology to early adopter suckers and we can try and spin any accidents as operator fault") rather than an engineering idea...
- journalctl 7y ago
  Except with the added bonus that some people might get injured or killed. When will software engineers take this shit seriously?
rsynnott 7y ago
Disclaimer: this product is completely useless. I think Tesla may be setting themselves up for trouble here. These sort of “using the product as clearly intended voids the warranty” disclaimers often don’t hold up.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  I agree. Why even bother using a feature that cant babysit (manage) itself. Yikes. I rather it not be enabled at all if its going to risk my vehicle. Thankfully I am letting the masses QA those cars. I will stick to my dumb car in the meantime.
  - steelframe 7y ago
    If you walk through parking lots, you unfortunately don't have a choice but to be part of the QA process.
    - giancarlostoro 7y ago
      This is very true. Sounds like a class action waiting to happen.
FireBeyond 7y ago
While at the same time "brings your car to you while you are dealing with a fussy child". It's like marketing wrote one part, legal the other, and neither read what the other wrote...

m3kw9 7y ago

If you think harder about not, no one really turns on autopilot except on main roads or highways, hence almost no training data. Parking lots is like a big rectangular area with stuff moving all over. So with more training data, they should have it down, but these incidents gonna lower their rates of getting training data. Is a chicken and egg problem.

occamrazor 7y ago
And if the pharma companies didn’t have to abide by ethical guidelines for clinical trials they could collect more data. There are good reasons to forbid that.
petters 7y ago
I thought Tesla collected training data everywhere all the time?
- froh 7y ago
  And they shadow test while hooman is driving.

loceng 7y ago

It's not unreasonable to assume someone will have a line of sight for where a vehicle is being summoned from, just like when in the vehicle itself and you drive forward you're paying attention to its surroundings as well. I have seen some videos released with summons that just a quick horn honk would have likely prevented another driver backing up their vehicle from bumping into, with enough force to do some front bumper damage, a Tesla being summoned in a parking lot; it moves slowly too, and that could also be a factor in surrounding drivers not gauging or having the same kinds of reactions.

ksherlock 7y ago
Ever walk up to your car in the parking lot then realize... that's not your car? Now identify your car from across the parking lot. In California, where every other car is a ticky tacky Tesla (and they all look just the same). There are already anecdotes of people wondering why their car isn't summoning only to realize ... that's not their car.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > In California, where every other car is a ticky tacky Tesla I live in California, and if I see five Teslas in a day it's an unusual cluster. Now, Silicon Valley probably has a greater proportion of Teslas, but Silicon Valley isn't typical of the state.
  - eclipxe 7y ago
    I’m in Orange County and I usually see 8-12 on a short drive. Easily 30-40 across a normal day with a 15 minute commute.
    - ultrasounder 7y ago
      Live in SV and my commute i see average of 30 M3s, about 10 S and 5 X mostly on 101. Also i see about 5 delivery truck packing about 5 cars each every day. Thats a lot of cars.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
    Really? Even just during my 10 minute walk to work in Minneapolis, MN I'll probably see five every day.
  - jumpingmice 7y ago
    Why do people say that highly populous areas are “not typical”?
    - dragonwriter 7y ago

natch 7y ago

As you should know as a software developer, development of major new capabilities is an incremental process, and for something like self driving cars it’s expected that there will be a transitional period before self driving. Summon in parking lots is a good transitional step. Remember Tesla is not just training cars here; humans also need to learn to deal and not freak out. There will be fender benders along the way. Most of them probably caused by other drivers, but bugs are also a possibility.

coldtea 7y ago
>As you should know as a software developer, development of major new capabilities is an incremental process Hopefully software developers with such an idea are not allowed in medical devices, aviation, missile guidance, space industry, industry robotics, and automobile...
- natch 7y ago
  Developments in all the areas you mention start with baby steps and incrementally progress toward greater and greater capabilities. This should not be news to anyone here.
  - kybernetikos 7y ago
    Sure, but usually we don't let Joe Blogs control it or even get in it or near it until there's a level of reliability and safety in its behaviour.
    - natch 7y ago
      I think you’ll find that the behavior that is unreliable here is that of other drivers, not the technology. So what you’re saying doesn’t apply in this situation. Even if it did apply, I believe the technology is safe and reliable, because from what I have seen Tesla does extremely extensive testing. So this meets your filter as ready to be released to the public.

modzu 7y ago

of course its unreasonable, but thats a liability clause added by a lawyer.

JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
How is it unreasonable if the things are already having collisions? This looks like a half-baked feature not even close to ready to be pushed out. Tesla is becoming a meme at this point and it has to be coming from the erratic man at the top. An engineer worth anything wouldn’t launch something like this. Sorry if I’m fired up about this but he just reminds me of a bad boss I had that only cared about hype and how things looked and expected the laws of mathematics and physics to bow to his delusions.
- natch 7y ago
  It’s possible many of these collisions are caused by other drivers. I mean even parked cars get hit by drivers every day. There is a bit of news hysteria effect happening here.
  - eclipxe 7y ago
    There’s literally only two examples in the post and one is an example of the car stopping before a collision. The other example is another car backing into the Tesla.
  - patcheudor 7y ago
    In the first video from the article, the Tesla would be found to be at fault in most jurisdictions as the driver backing out was well into the backing out maneuver before the Tesla even rounded the corner. The Tesla without question did not have the right away at that point.
    - URSpider94 7y ago
      In most jurisdictions, the vehicle traveling in reverse is always the give-way vehicle. Practically, I expect that the insurance companies would agree to each pay their own driver’s costs and count it as an at-fault accident on both sides.

coldtea 7y ago

>Is this a joke? I have huge respect for Tesla and SpaceX, but how do they expect to release a feature that will self-drive a car (even tiny distance) and someone will oversee a moving car? Think of it as a marketing/business idea (let's sell this "advanced technology to early adopter suckers and we can try and spin any accidents as operator fault") rather than an engineering idea...

journalctl 7y ago
Except with the added bonus that some people might get injured or killed. When will software engineers take this shit seriously?

rsynnott 7y ago

Disclaimer: this product is completely useless. I think Tesla may be setting themselves up for trouble here. These sort of “using the product as clearly intended voids the warranty” disclaimers often don’t hold up.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
I agree. Why even bother using a feature that cant babysit (manage) itself. Yikes. I rather it not be enabled at all if its going to risk my vehicle. Thankfully I am letting the masses QA those cars. I will stick to my dumb car in the meantime.
- steelframe 7y ago
  If you walk through parking lots, you unfortunately don't have a choice but to be part of the QA process.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    This is very true. Sounds like a class action waiting to happen.

FireBeyond 7y ago

While at the same time "brings your car to you while you are dealing with a fussy child". It's like marketing wrote one part, legal the other, and neither read what the other wrote...