7 ms·

Microsoft is clearly taking moves that enable "PC as a service". I imagine the end game is something like you pay Microsoft so much a month on a subscription,

Microsoft is clearly taking moves that enable "PC as a service". I imagine the end game is something like you pay Microsoft so much a month on a subscription, receive hardware that is preconfigured with and tied to your Microsoft account details or your company's Azure AD configuration and locked down with InTune, unhackable with properly implemented Class 3+ UEFI and Secure Boot, etc. You then purchase additional software subscriptions, such as your Photoshop, etc., through the Microsoft store, with Microsoft taking a cut like Apple. If your computer breaks, pay the $50 or $100 insurance and receive a new one from Microsoft, if it's not folded into your monthly "Microsoft Technology Subscription." So when Microsoft completes its takeover of the PC, what's the platform and OEM landscape going to look like? This endgame clearly puts companies like Dell, HP, Asus, etc. and the companies that provide parts like Intel, AMD in a subordinate position to Microsoft. They probably won't like that. Will they give up? Will they try to start to make hardware for Apple? Will these companies embrace Linux and provide a third way?

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
To the end user, what makes this model preferable to buying the operating system software? For some businesses higher up the stack, it makes sense-- e.g., people spend $X per month on the Adobe Suite, and people tend to enjoy that.
- tenebrisalietum 7y ago
  I really think if you explained this properly to most end users they will still want something like what Microsoft is moving toward. Let Microsoft worry about it, is what they'll say. Non-tech people don't want to buy and upgrade operating systems. They see the operating system as part of the device. I'd like to say selling operating systems to non-technical people doesn't work, but I'm not sure it's ever really been tried. The bulk of Microsoft's OS sales have never been to end users, but to OEMs and companies on Software Assurance. Now technical people are certainly involved where an IT department builds systems for companies, but I think Microsoft wants to eliminate that too.
  - saghm 7y ago
    Sometimes selling operating systems to technical people doesn't even work! Last week, my friend got a new laptop, and he wanted to try out Arch along-side Windows (instead of Ubuntu like he usually did), but he accidentally messed up the boot partition the pre-installed Windows was using when he was installing it. I tried to convince him to just do a fresh Windows install with an .iso since he already had a license key (and that's technically not even necessary, since you can use Windows 10 indefinitely without registering it as long as you don't mind not being able to configure things like the theme and fonts), but he absolutely refused because he liked how the vendor-specific face unlock software worked and wasn't sure if he could get it with a fresh install. He ended up spending several hours figuring out how to repear the partition (which he ended up succeeding at). If someone willing to install Arch and muck around with bootloaders for most of a day still prefers to use preinstalled Windows, I can't imagine how selling operating systems separate from machines can possibly be the optimal business model for Microsoft to sell to non-technical people.
- tim58 7y ago
  It's a total managed solution. Predictable. Requires less human capital to administer. Contract is negotiable with M$.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > people spend $X per month on the Adobe Suite, and people tend to enjoy that. I work in the graphic design industry, and I've got news for you... people do not enjoy Adobe's move to subscription pricing, and on the contrary still complain about it. Anecdotal evidence, I suppose, but seriously... I haven't met a single person who prefers Creative Cloud to just buying the suites.
  - toastal 7y ago
    With alternative softwares like Figma, Sketch and Affinity, I've been seeing a lot of designers migrate away. Sadly and tangential to other discussions, Figma is the only one that will run cross-platform being WASM-based. I personally had been holding on to Windows/Mac through college til this subscription model. Since I really only do photo work now, darktable and RawTherapee are great FOSS alternatives. Krita and GIMP get way more flack than they deserve.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      Our agency uses Sketch for web projects, but for print Adobe is still king.
  - input_sh 7y ago
    Not to mention that its prices are ridiculously expensive for the majority of the world.
  - pndy 7y ago
    My friend who's a graphic designer had to reinstall Windows because, surprise surprise, one of earlier Windows 10 builds released for Windows 7 bricked her machine and that of course comes with reinstalling all software as well. And the fun started when she had to reinstall Adobe stuff: she couldn't reactivate one of older Photoshop she bought because it wasn't supported anymore - it couldn't connect to Adobe servers; helpdesk suggested her moving to CC which was out of the question for her. In the end, she pick the different solution suggested by her friend that doesn't come as SaaS.
    - 7y ago
chank 7y ago
Deal is, big corps want it. Everything as a service. Easy to write off. Easy to ramp up and down as needed.
- unicornfinder 7y ago
  Hell, even small companies would. I work at a company with roughly 50 staff and honestly I reckon my bosses would love this.
- blahedo 7y ago
  Do they though? My friends that work IT in corporate settings seem to tear their hair out every time MS (or anyone) tries to auto-push an update that they haven't had a chance to rigorously test for compatibility and security with their existing stuff. Some of them have fiduciary responsibility to not add/change/upgrade software without carefully testing it first. That doesn't seem compatible with the trajectory Windows is now on (and that Apple has been on for some time).
  - maehwasu 7y ago
    I think he means more that you can make it an operating expenditure and not a capital one, for accounting.
  - paulryanrogers 7y ago
    > Some of them have fiduciary responsibility to not add/change/upgrade software without carefully testing it first. While that makes a lot of sense will it remain a requirement if/when it's simply not a choice with any major vendor? Can smaller vendors still provide that choice and meet all the necessary certificates that such industries often also require? (Serious question, not trolling.)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
      > if/when it's simply not a choice with any major vendor? I am reasonably confident that RedHat will continue to cover this ~forever, if it comes to that.
behnamoh 7y ago
Microsoft would get involved in Trust issues if they were approaching a monopoly in the PC world. However, one can't rely on law to stop a huge corporation like Microsoft dominating the whole PC world. I wonder how Apple would respond to this move by MS, since Apple is also shifting towards services. Maybe they will let people install macOS on their own machines (which pass certain requirements)? Will they remove apps made by MS from Appstore? And what will Google's reaction be to all this? Are they going to advertise Chrome books as cheaper alternatives to MS Windows? Or will they remove MS apps from Google Play as well? Interesting, yet dark, times indeed.
localhost 7y ago
Just like Apple makes the iPhone a "Mobile computer as a service". It's a managed device that makes life much safer and easier for most people. There will likely always be the DIY solutions for folks who prefer that. And that's good too.
- AnonymousPlanet 7y ago
  However, OP is not talking about a mobile device, but a PC. The PC is in the same device bracket as Macs. And Apple does not provide Macs "as computer as a service". Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. The OS also remembers your choice of disabling telemetry, without resetting it after the next update. Apple provides managed and unmanaged. Microsoft appears not to provide unmanaged in the near future. This would remove the entire Windows PC bracket from the list of unmanaged options. That would be an enormous loss, and not just for some "folks who prefer DIY".
  - FireBeyond 7y ago
    > Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. Like App Store? Or are we talking about "for varying degrees of 'everything'"?
    - AnonymousPlanet 7y ago
      "Everything works" means every aspect of the operating system works. If you are dependent on apps from the App Store, go use the App Store. The process is similar to buying them via a vendor or installing games via Steam. For those who really need that, it's there. But it's not necessary.
    - filleduchaos 7y ago
      Have you ever used a Mac?
      - vetinari 7y ago
        Mac App Store definitely requires Apple ID.
swalls 7y ago
I see the potential for a future (and the tech is getting there, with Stadia, etc) where OEMs only sell to cloud operators and instead the consumer is sold essentially a graphics card and network card as a streambox. At that point, we can say goodbye to open source ideals, when [[Cloud Provider]] can charge for installing whatever software they want and keep it locked down otherwise.
drngdds 7y ago
That seems really unlikely. People are used to devices being things that you buy once and keep forever without a subscription. Why would Microsoft go out on a limb and do something weird like that?

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago

To the end user, what makes this model preferable to buying the operating system software? For some businesses higher up the stack, it makes sense-- e.g., people spend $X per month on the Adobe Suite, and people tend to enjoy that.

tenebrisalietum 7y ago
I really think if you explained this properly to most end users they will still want something like what Microsoft is moving toward. Let Microsoft worry about it, is what they'll say. Non-tech people don't want to buy and upgrade operating systems. They see the operating system as part of the device. I'd like to say selling operating systems to non-technical people doesn't work, but I'm not sure it's ever really been tried. The bulk of Microsoft's OS sales have never been to end users, but to OEMs and companies on Software Assurance. Now technical people are certainly involved where an IT department builds systems for companies, but I think Microsoft wants to eliminate that too.
- saghm 7y ago
  Sometimes selling operating systems to technical people doesn't even work! Last week, my friend got a new laptop, and he wanted to try out Arch along-side Windows (instead of Ubuntu like he usually did), but he accidentally messed up the boot partition the pre-installed Windows was using when he was installing it. I tried to convince him to just do a fresh Windows install with an .iso since he already had a license key (and that's technically not even necessary, since you can use Windows 10 indefinitely without registering it as long as you don't mind not being able to configure things like the theme and fonts), but he absolutely refused because he liked how the vendor-specific face unlock software worked and wasn't sure if he could get it with a fresh install. He ended up spending several hours figuring out how to repear the partition (which he ended up succeeding at). If someone willing to install Arch and muck around with bootloaders for most of a day still prefers to use preinstalled Windows, I can't imagine how selling operating systems separate from machines can possibly be the optimal business model for Microsoft to sell to non-technical people.
tim58 7y ago
It's a total managed solution. Predictable. Requires less human capital to administer. Contract is negotiable with M$.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> people spend $X per month on the Adobe Suite, and people tend to enjoy that. I work in the graphic design industry, and I've got news for you... people do not enjoy Adobe's move to subscription pricing, and on the contrary still complain about it. Anecdotal evidence, I suppose, but seriously... I haven't met a single person who prefers Creative Cloud to just buying the suites.
- toastal 7y ago
  With alternative softwares like Figma, Sketch and Affinity, I've been seeing a lot of designers migrate away. Sadly and tangential to other discussions, Figma is the only one that will run cross-platform being WASM-based. I personally had been holding on to Windows/Mac through college til this subscription model. Since I really only do photo work now, darktable and RawTherapee are great FOSS alternatives. Krita and GIMP get way more flack than they deserve.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Our agency uses Sketch for web projects, but for print Adobe is still king.
- input_sh 7y ago
  Not to mention that its prices are ridiculously expensive for the majority of the world.
- pndy 7y ago
  My friend who's a graphic designer had to reinstall Windows because, surprise surprise, one of earlier Windows 10 builds released for Windows 7 bricked her machine and that of course comes with reinstalling all software as well. And the fun started when she had to reinstall Adobe stuff: she couldn't reactivate one of older Photoshop she bought because it wasn't supported anymore - it couldn't connect to Adobe servers; helpdesk suggested her moving to CC which was out of the question for her. In the end, she pick the different solution suggested by her friend that doesn't come as SaaS.
  - 7y ago

chank 7y ago

Deal is, big corps want it. Everything as a service. Easy to write off. Easy to ramp up and down as needed.

unicornfinder 7y ago
Hell, even small companies would. I work at a company with roughly 50 staff and honestly I reckon my bosses would love this.
blahedo 7y ago
Do they though? My friends that work IT in corporate settings seem to tear their hair out every time MS (or anyone) tries to auto-push an update that they haven't had a chance to rigorously test for compatibility and security with their existing stuff. Some of them have fiduciary responsibility to not add/change/upgrade software without carefully testing it first. That doesn't seem compatible with the trajectory Windows is now on (and that Apple has been on for some time).
- maehwasu 7y ago
  I think he means more that you can make it an operating expenditure and not a capital one, for accounting.
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  > Some of them have fiduciary responsibility to not add/change/upgrade software without carefully testing it first. While that makes a lot of sense will it remain a requirement if/when it's simply not a choice with any major vendor? Can smaller vendors still provide that choice and meet all the necessary certificates that such industries often also require? (Serious question, not trolling.)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    > if/when it's simply not a choice with any major vendor? I am reasonably confident that RedHat will continue to cover this ~forever, if it comes to that.

behnamoh 7y ago

Microsoft would get involved in Trust issues if they were approaching a monopoly in the PC world. However, one can't rely on law to stop a huge corporation like Microsoft dominating the whole PC world. I wonder how Apple would respond to this move by MS, since Apple is also shifting towards services. Maybe they will let people install macOS on their own machines (which pass certain requirements)? Will they remove apps made by MS from Appstore? And what will Google's reaction be to all this? Are they going to advertise Chrome books as cheaper alternatives to MS Windows? Or will they remove MS apps from Google Play as well? Interesting, yet dark, times indeed.

localhost 7y ago

Just like Apple makes the iPhone a "Mobile computer as a service". It's a managed device that makes life much safer and easier for most people. There will likely always be the DIY solutions for folks who prefer that. And that's good too.

AnonymousPlanet 7y ago
However, OP is not talking about a mobile device, but a PC. The PC is in the same device bracket as Macs. And Apple does not provide Macs "as computer as a service". Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. The OS also remembers your choice of disabling telemetry, without resetting it after the next update. Apple provides managed and unmanaged. Microsoft appears not to provide unmanaged in the near future. This would remove the entire Windows PC bracket from the list of unmanaged options. That would be an enormous loss, and not just for some "folks who prefer DIY".
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. Like App Store? Or are we talking about "for varying degrees of 'everything'"?
  - AnonymousPlanet 7y ago
    "Everything works" means every aspect of the operating system works. If you are dependent on apps from the App Store, go use the App Store. The process is similar to buying them via a vendor or installing games via Steam. For those who really need that, it's there. But it's not necessary.
  - filleduchaos 7y ago
    Have you ever used a Mac?
    - vetinari 7y ago
      Mac App Store definitely requires Apple ID.

swalls 7y ago

I see the potential for a future (and the tech is getting there, with Stadia, etc) where OEMs only sell to cloud operators and instead the consumer is sold essentially a graphics card and network card as a streambox. At that point, we can say goodbye to open source ideals, when [[Cloud Provider]] can charge for installing whatever software they want and keep it locked down otherwise.

drngdds 7y ago

That seems really unlikely. People are used to devices being things that you buy once and keep forever without a subscription. Why would Microsoft go out on a limb and do something weird like that?