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Yes, this is something that literally everyone who reads HN will oppose. Meanwhile do you hear the deafening silence from the average Joe who thinks he has "not
by nindalf 7y ago
Yes, this is something that literally everyone who reads HN will oppose. Meanwhile do you hear the deafening silence from the average Joe who thinks he has "nothing to hide"?
Don't hate the politicians who keep pushing this. They're just trying not to get fired. And the surest way to get fired in a western country right now is to be seen doing nothing about the terrorism problem and then having terrorist acts committed under your watch. So the politician asks the security forces "what can we do to stop terrorism?" Security says "get us access to messages of terrorism suspects". Seems reasonable, let's go ahead with it.
Yes, we know that it doesn't stop with terrorism suspects. Then law enforcement wants to read the messages of drug kingpins, then drug suspects, then shoplifters, then jaywalkers, then everyone, just to be on the safe side.
But as long as people are told that they need to give up some privacy in exchange for security, they'll take the latter every time.
- spo81rty 7y agoYou are absolutely right. I also already assume the government can access virtually anything I am doing anyways. I think we are all naive to believe otherwise. I also have nothing to hide :-)
- Lutzb 7y agoMy questions to people who say they have nothing to hide: - what are the things you and your significant other are doing in the private of your house? - which co-worker do fantasize about, be specific in what you like to do. - As teenager what legal/illegal drugs did you consume. How often did you pass out, who where the people you consumed these drugs with? - What are your political leanings? - How much do earn, where are your savings invested in. - Which illnesses do you currently have, which exist in your social circle. - what private information was shared with you by other parties. Are you aware of any wrong doings/illegal activity by other people? Be specific esp. friends and family. Be aware that I will share this information with anyone in your social group/work/volunteering work whenever I feel like it. I may also share this data with extremists groups on the other side of the spectrum, if helpful. Lastly I can use this data to fabricate "helpful" information about you if necessary. Thank you.
- rahuldottech 7y agoI really like this response. Thank you for this.
- Yajirobe 7y ago> Be aware that I will share this information with anyone in your social group/work/volunteering work whenever I feel like it. I may also share this data with extremists groups on the other side of the spectrum, if helpful. Lastly I can use this data to fabricate "helpful" information about you if necessary Citation needed
- Lutzb 7y agoEast Germany pre unification. Edit: upvoted you. Asking the question, if and when this happened is important for further generations.
- adventured 7y ago> I also have nothing to hide :-) That's not your decision to make, as to whether you have something to hide or not. That will be decided by someone else. It's entirely out of your hands and - depending on where and when you are subject to such scrutiny - may be arbitrarily decided, which is in fact a requirement in all authoritarian systems (the law has to be heavily subjective and arbitrarily enforced so it can be directed against anyone at anytime as so required, such that the population is kept in constant fear).
- cryptozeus 7y agoIt is not the question if you have something to hide or not but once they have unlimited access like this, what is stopping them from manufacturing truth and bend the information to support their biases. Privacy IMO is more important.
- concordDance 7y agoCould you elaborate in the link between unlimited access and manufacturing truth?
- rahuldottech 7y agoIf I don't have access to your conversation and people know this, but I claim that I know you said something in such a conversation, people can ask how I know it and demand proof. If your conversations aren't encrypted and I have access to them, and people know this, then if I claim that you said a certain something in such a conversation, people are more likely to just believe me. Also, unencrypted data is data that can be altered by a third party.
- em-bee 7y agodata can still be signed.
- Kenji 7y agoDon't hate the politicians who keep pushing this. They're just trying not to get fired. Uh... what? And what would you say about Nazis who gas Jews, don't hate them because they're trying not to get fired? People who "just do their job" and "try not to get fired" and do bad things because of that are the worst people. This is literally how every human-caused catastrophe came about. No, do hate them. They stand in the way of our privacy, our liberty, our self-determination, ultimately, our future. Fuck these authoritarian politician, let's vote them out of government, let's protest them.
- hope-striker 7y agoBut by your very comment, it only makes sense to hate the politicians! If all they care about is that they keep their jobs, then isn't trying to get the politicians fired for threatening our privacy the best way to get them to care about our privacy?
- nindalf 7y agoNo and yes. Don’t hate the politician for trying to keep their job. In that respect they’re no different from any other person. Yes, if you can convince politicians that you’re more concerned about the actual damage to your privacy than the hypothetical increase in the probability of a terrorist attack, then go ahead. Do it. Convince them. But my hunch is that most people are far more terrified of dying in a terrorist attack.
- feanaro 7y agoFrom my experience, people in my country rarely think of terrorists. Perhaps these same politicians have manipulated the people into obsessing about this?