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Just traveled to China and to my surprise it was more Orwellian than I anticipated. Despite all of our problems in the US, I'm still proud to live in a Democrac

by 29_29 7y ago

Just traveled to China and to my surprise it was more Orwellian than I anticipated. Despite all of our problems in the US, I'm still proud to live in a Democracy and a free society. I took down my outdoor security camera after the trip.

agumonkey 7y ago
Any way to share what you felt ? are there videos that show "it" ?
- 29_29 7y ago
  I still have to write a blog post, so I'll try to follow up when I do
  - _eht 7y ago
    Please do. I, also, want to read it.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    super cool, I second the other commentor
whoevercares 7y ago
Would you mind be more concrete? I’m curious what part is surprising from your travel experience, assuming you are just a regular traveler/tourist (i.e. not journalist)
- 29_29 7y ago
  * "Security Check" - Airport style security everywhere even on the subway. * Cartoons - Authoritarianism was wrapped up and packaged with cute police cartoons https://www.google.com/search?q=china+police+cartoon&sxsrf=ACYBGNSbLunsLM5fjhrJ-7tZkm4IKdkOAQ:1569684665543&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjap5iH6_PkAhVJnKwKHcmqA1sQ_AUIEigB&biw=1224&bih=715 https://www.google.com/search?q=china+police+cartoon&sxsrf=A... * The Red Armbands - Communist party volunteers, in the subway, and in the community keeping watch https://bitterwinter.org/red-armbands-are-watching-you/ https://bitterwinter.org/red-armbands-are-watching-you/ * Passport check at sensitive locations and to buy a train ticket. To get into Tiananmen Square I needed a passport, I was denied entry to my train and separated from my group because the passport number didn't match my ticket * Police everywhere. Literally everywhere * I saw a a mosque surrounded by security cameras. They didn't even hide its surveillance. * I was watched everywhere, except the great wall - but I was told cameras are being constructed there too. The feeling I had was like being in the forest of District 12 of the Hunger Games, I felt free there. * Signs in the Hotel warn you that you DO NOT have a right to privacy, and you must register your passport or state ID
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    > * Signs in the Hotel warn you that you DO NOT have a right to privacy, and you must register your passport or state ID This applies in the US too in most cities I’ve done business in. Some hotels don’t enforce the ordinances, but the hotel is supposed verify who is staying at the hotel, along with license plate numbers of vehicles the guest has. Also, I wouldn’t want to stay in a hotel that doesn’t check rooms periodically (at least once per week), as that is a recipe for meth cooking and hoarders bringing pests into the building and numerous other problems.
    - adventured 7y ago
      > This applies in the US too in most cities I’ve done business in. That they note that you don't have a right to privacy is the only odd part. It's fairly common around the world to have to present your passport / passport details at hotels for their records. It's definitely not strange that China's hotels would require that.
      - 29_29 7y ago
        Do the police show up if you don’t register in Other countries they do in China.
        adventured 7y ago
        > Do the police show up if you don’t register in the United States? I think that response is moving the goalpost. I noted that it's common throughout the world that hotels often require passport details. Your response to that is to change the issue in question to the consequences of non-compliance and away from what you initially presented as the problem ("you must register your passport or state ID").
        29_29 7y ago
        Goalpost? What is your goal? I was sharing my personal experience in traveling to China - being in a society with no notion of Human Rights, because someone asked. Is your goal to argue? I don't get it.
maximente 7y ago
come on. there are enough ring security doorbell cameras alone siphoning down data that if Amazon doesn't have a system like this under contract/NDA from the US government, it's probably well into the RFP process. that or it was developed in the US originally and stolen then rebranded. or maybe they'll just steal the tech via NSA/CIA? no better way to evaluate your adversary than dogfooding their tech.
greggman2 7y ago
Where did you go? I've only been to Bejing, Shangahi, Nanjing, and Hanzhou. They seemed like normal large cities. I didn't see police anywhere. I walked around the cities no problem. Road the subways no issues. Ate lots of yummy food. Went shopping, walked malls, went to mom and pop stores. Bought stuff at covenience stores. Went to bars. Went to museums. Went to several night clubs. Went to China Joy, video game trade show that seemed a lot like Gamescom but more sexy. I literally saw nothing oppresive. The most was that Google Maps being bad and I don't read enough Chinese to use Baidu maps. Used a HK sim last time I went (can order online) but my day to day experience like a pretty normal life would be in Los Angeles, New York, Paris, or London except the of course the cities are full of Chinese people with Chinese inspired architecture etc.. I did see lots of poverty, especially outside the big cities. Note I am not defending Chinese. Just shocked at how different our experiences were. Plenty of youtube travel videos or videos of Shenzen or other cities that look similar to the experiences I've had.
- 29_29 7y ago
  I went to SH and Beijing. what year did you go? Things may be different now, or under Xi. My Grandparents went in the 80s, and Beijing was made up of dirt roads.
cowgoesmo0 7y ago
I'm currently in China on a vacation. A few days ago, I was watching TV in my hotel room and CNN was broadcasting Trump's UN speech live. I tuned in as he was talking about China and the trade war. Everything was normal until he said "we're closely monitoring the situation in Hong Kong." Right after he finished that sentence, the channel cut to black for few minutes and came back when he moved on to Iran. Also, fun fact, HN is blocked here.

by 29_29 7y ago

agumonkey 7y ago

Any way to share what you felt ? are there videos that show "it" ?

29_29 7y ago
I still have to write a blog post, so I'll try to follow up when I do
- _eht 7y ago
  Please do. I, also, want to read it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- agumonkey 7y ago
  super cool, I second the other commentor

whoevercares 7y ago

Would you mind be more concrete? I’m curious what part is surprising from your travel experience, assuming you are just a regular traveler/tourist (i.e. not journalist)

29_29 7y ago
* "Security Check" - Airport style security everywhere even on the subway. * Cartoons - Authoritarianism was wrapped up and packaged with cute police cartoons https://www.google.com/search?q=china+police+cartoon&sxsrf=ACYBGNSbLunsLM5fjhrJ-7tZkm4IKdkOAQ:1569684665543&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjap5iH6_PkAhVJnKwKHcmqA1sQ_AUIEigB&biw=1224&bih=715 https://www.google.com/search?q=china+police+cartoon&sxsrf=A... * The Red Armbands - Communist party volunteers, in the subway, and in the community keeping watch https://bitterwinter.org/red-armbands-are-watching-you/ https://bitterwinter.org/red-armbands-are-watching-you/ * Passport check at sensitive locations and to buy a train ticket. To get into Tiananmen Square I needed a passport, I was denied entry to my train and separated from my group because the passport number didn't match my ticket * Police everywhere. Literally everywhere * I saw a a mosque surrounded by security cameras. They didn't even hide its surveillance. * I was watched everywhere, except the great wall - but I was told cameras are being constructed there too. The feeling I had was like being in the forest of District 12 of the Hunger Games, I felt free there. * Signs in the Hotel warn you that you DO NOT have a right to privacy, and you must register your passport or state ID
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  > * Signs in the Hotel warn you that you DO NOT have a right to privacy, and you must register your passport or state ID This applies in the US too in most cities I’ve done business in. Some hotels don’t enforce the ordinances, but the hotel is supposed verify who is staying at the hotel, along with license plate numbers of vehicles the guest has. Also, I wouldn’t want to stay in a hotel that doesn’t check rooms periodically (at least once per week), as that is a recipe for meth cooking and hoarders bringing pests into the building and numerous other problems.
  - adventured 7y ago
    > This applies in the US too in most cities I’ve done business in. That they note that you don't have a right to privacy is the only odd part. It's fairly common around the world to have to present your passport / passport details at hotels for their records. It's definitely not strange that China's hotels would require that.
    - 29_29 7y ago
      Do the police show up if you don’t register in Other countries they do in China.
      - adventured 7y ago
        > Do the police show up if you don’t register in the United States? I think that response is moving the goalpost. I noted that it's common throughout the world that hotels often require passport details. Your response to that is to change the issue in question to the consequences of non-compliance and away from what you initially presented as the problem ("you must register your passport or state ID").
        29_29 7y ago
        Goalpost? What is your goal? I was sharing my personal experience in traveling to China - being in a society with no notion of Human Rights, because someone asked. Is your goal to argue? I don't get it.

maximente 7y ago

come on. there are enough ring security doorbell cameras alone siphoning down data that if Amazon doesn't have a system like this under contract/NDA from the US government, it's probably well into the RFP process. that or it was developed in the US originally and stolen then rebranded. or maybe they'll just steal the tech via NSA/CIA? no better way to evaluate your adversary than dogfooding their tech.

greggman2 7y ago

Where did you go? I've only been to Bejing, Shangahi, Nanjing, and Hanzhou. They seemed like normal large cities. I didn't see police anywhere. I walked around the cities no problem. Road the subways no issues. Ate lots of yummy food. Went shopping, walked malls, went to mom and pop stores. Bought stuff at covenience stores. Went to bars. Went to museums. Went to several night clubs. Went to China Joy, video game trade show that seemed a lot like Gamescom but more sexy. I literally saw nothing oppresive. The most was that Google Maps being bad and I don't read enough Chinese to use Baidu maps. Used a HK sim last time I went (can order online) but my day to day experience like a pretty normal life would be in Los Angeles, New York, Paris, or London except the of course the cities are full of Chinese people with Chinese inspired architecture etc.. I did see lots of poverty, especially outside the big cities. Note I am not defending Chinese. Just shocked at how different our experiences were. Plenty of youtube travel videos or videos of Shenzen or other cities that look similar to the experiences I've had.

29_29 7y ago
I went to SH and Beijing. what year did you go? Things may be different now, or under Xi. My Grandparents went in the 80s, and Beijing was made up of dirt roads.

cowgoesmo0 7y ago

I'm currently in China on a vacation. A few days ago, I was watching TV in my hotel room and CNN was broadcasting Trump's UN speech live. I tuned in as he was talking about China and the trade war. Everything was normal until he said "we're closely monitoring the situation in Hong Kong." Right after he finished that sentence, the channel cut to black for few minutes and came back when he moved on to Iran. Also, fun fact, HN is blocked here.