9 ms·

Why do ebooks cost so much?

66 points by barredo 16y ago

c0riander 16y ago
One of the other main reasons ebooks costs so much is because they are sold in proprietary formats. Yes, some costs associated with producing, distributing, and selling physical books are diminished, but at the same time, publishers now have to pay to convert their text to each retailer's ebook format -- both a set fee and per-copy-sold fee. Publishers are forced to pay-to-play (essentially) in Amazon's store, or B&N's store, or whatnot, so that their books are available in their formats, a cost that is then folded into the production of the ebook. So yes, some costs go down, others go up. On a side note, the agency pricing model actually is better for most authors/illustrators as well, not just their publisher. Physical book, the author gets a set royalty (anywhere between 5-15%) based on the retail price. Ebook, the author gets 25% of net receipts. The breakdown there is: $10 physical book at 10% royalty: $1 per book to the author (out of ~$5 to the publisher) $10 ebook at 25% net: $1.75 per book to the author (out of ~$7 to publisher) It's a move toward more fair compensation for the content creators.
zokier 16y ago
Because people are ready to pay so much for them?
nodata 16y ago
Because of the higher costs of manufacturing and distribution, plus all the real estate to store the books.
toddh 16y ago
Agencies won't be around much longer in any case. Disintermediation strikes again.
- robryan 16y ago
  I can't see them disappearing completely, possibly they will become more streamlined where the author can get a better deal only taking on board services they need.
- bl4k 16y ago
  If I were to write a book, either technical or a novel, I would be tempted to hire a freelance copyrighter, editor and publicist, then list it on Amazon, Safari etc. myself. You can find these people on Elance and similar sites, but there is an opportunity for a website that is a one-stop-shop to do all of this in one place (ie. find the various people, organize listing, sales etc.). Anybody know if this already exists?
tommi 16y ago
Perhaps because people are willing to pay and without the high price on ebooks, the price of traditional books would not be justified. All in all, I hate how many books are made too verbose just to sell more pages and therefore have higher price. The same content would be better communicated with less repetition and side content.
- nhangen 16y ago
  This is exactly why I enjoyed Crush It, by Gary Vaynerchuk. Quick and to the point. So many business books especially read like a collection of blog posts and filler, rather than providing a real and valuable hypothesis.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
GavinB 16y ago
This article talks about pricing models, but doesn't discuss why an ebook costs 9.99 and not 0.99. One reason is simple economics: there's no perfect substitute for a specific book. If I want the next book by my favorite author, buying another book with a similar looking cover won't really do it. So price wars aren't as competitive as they are in, say, the grocery store. But the bigger reason is that it costs a lot to produce quality books at scale. First a publisher has to decide to make the investment. This means an editorial assistant or intern needs to read hundreds of manuscripts. Agents will read thousands of queries and hundreds of books to find one that they will actually publish. The actual editors will ready ten or twenty books for each one that they want to make an offer on--and then usually not end up with the winning bid. Which means starting over and looking for another book. Don't forget that when an editor is trying to acquire a book, she has to consult with marketing, sales, and other groups in the company who will judge how well they will be able to support the book. To get a few good books, they have to run through this process many times. Don't forget that contracts need legal review and an accountant need to make sure that the author is paid. Once a book is acquired by a publisher, the editor takes it through several revisions, which will usually substantially alter it. In this stage a book may suddenly become very emotionally compelling or gripping--in ways that a casual reader wouldn't have predicted. Or maybe it will lose a boring introduction that would have turned readers off before they got to the good parts. Once a book is edited, it needs to be typeset and copyedited, which means a lot more reading by a few more people. Also, it needs a cover design, and possibly interior art, which needs not only to be created but art directed. And legal may need to review it if there are usages of brand names or other potential issues. At this point, we actually have a book. It looks like a book, it reads like a book, and it could now realistically be tested against a target market. There's no such thing as a minimum viable product for a book. I'd like to see a more scientific, testing-based approach in publishing, but often the book doesn't come together into a hit-worthy package until you've done the work to take it all the way. You might have ten books with hit potential, but only one of them comes out of this process having fulfilled its potential. Now, someone needs to put the book out and actually market it. This means a publicity person needs to get the word out to the press, and marketers who buy ads and run campaigns. In the modern world, someone needs to be on facebook and twitter. Often this is the author, but it's still adding to the amount of work that went into the book. The author will probably also be touring around in meatspace, possibly paid for by the publisher and possibly not, but that money is coming from the consumers no matter what. The book files will need to be archived and corrected for future editions, and someone will need to manage the financial relationship with the author as the book is published across print editions and various ebook retailers, each with its own quirks and process. And speaking of ebook retailers, they need to get paid to! Their 30% has to cover all the costs of running their operation, which may include subsidizing ereader devices and all the costs of negotiating with both the big publishers and the hundreds of little ones. Even after this painstaking process, many books will fail. A bunch will barely earn back their investment. The regular-sized hits will keep the business afloat, and the mega-hits will make it worth being in the business in the first place. It's really hard to predict whether people will like your final product until you put that final product out into the marketplace. For entertainment products this is especially true, because a little bit of polish makes a huge difference. I'm sure I've missed things, but keep in mind that the cost of printing and shipping most books is less than $2 for a hardcover, less than $1 for a paperback. Is there a better way to do this? Of course there is. But it isn't here yet, and it's a lot harder than you think (but I highly encourage you to try!). Someday, someone will figure out how to crowdsource a lot of this or turn it into a scientific numbers-driven process, but early experiments have not made a lot of progress. tl;dr Producing good books at scale is expensive and requires creating a lot of not-so-good books as a side product. The physical manufacture has never been the main cost driver.
ThomPete 16y ago
For no particular reasoning other than they can get away with it.
- vladok 16y ago
  Another way to say "they can get away with it" is "enough customers still find the product more valuable than the cash price set for it"
  - ThomPete 16y ago
    Sure. But don't you have to factor in those who download it for free to find the "real price" then?
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      Theft generically pushes prices up. Not down.
      - ThomPete 16y ago
        It's not theft in my book.
      - chc 16y ago
        That's because theft generically reduces inventory while leaving the seller with the need to recoup the marginal cost of the item stolen. This is one of the many reasons why downloading something without the copyright holder's OK is not the same thing as theft. (This is not to say it isn't a crime or that it's morally OK — just that if it is a crime, it's one other than theft.)
        loewenskind 16y ago
        >This is one of the many reasons why downloading something without the copyright holder's OK is not the same thing as theft. This is pure nonsense. It's true that no inventory is lost when a product is downloaded and in some cases no sale as well. But you'll never convince me (and it's impossible to prove) that every single person who ever downloaded any software wouldn't have purchased it had they not had the option of stealing it. The issue is that software has huge up front costs. If people were to follow your "morals" there would be no reasonable way to recoup those up front costs, since it would just be ok to take what you want. I do tend to think that the fact that the creator continues to get full price long after they've past production costs and made a healthy profit could use some scrutiny (i.e. is there a better way to do this), but software is hardly the only industry where this is the case.
geekfactor 16y ago
In April of 2010, 5 of the major publishers (Penguin/Putnam being one of them) instituted what is now called Agency Pricing. Can anyone explain how this isn't considered price fixing, collusion or otherwise anti-competitive?
- ashconnor 16y ago
  Because the works are unique?
- wnoise 16y ago
  Or a violation of the First Sale Doctrine[1], for that matter. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
  - wmf 16y ago
    They probably think ebooks are licensed, not sold.
- aidenn0 16y ago
  This is technically a vertical move. They are offering their books to sellers through the store with amazon (et. al.) taking a chunk. So they set the price.
barrkel 16y ago
Ebooks aren't even competitive with actual books, second-hand books in particular. For almost any popular book published more than a few years ago, it's a lot cheaper to get it in a second-hand bookshop.
- jonhendry 16y ago
  That doesn't help if you tend not to read the sorts of popular books that are easy to find in second-hand bookshops. Nor if you don't want to spend a bunch of time shopping for books that may or may not be in stock. In my experience, second-hand bookstores are great for serendipitous finds - books that look interesting that you weren't looking for and maybe didn't know existed, not so much for finding a specific book.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
bugsy 16y ago
Interesting article on "Agency Pricing". So all the big players in the industry come together, make a pricing compact that no one can break, and as a side effect lock out all the smaller players. How is this not price fixing and collusion?
andrest 16y ago
This is my personal opinion of what could be the solution. 1) Ebooks will be kept on publishers' servers 2) A standard which all ebook readers can read will be adapted (during the crossover period publishers can keep ebooks in multiple formats) This could be it. Now the retail sellers can sell the book for a lower cost. Every time a purchase is made, let's say a key is generated by the retailer (e.g. amazon) that will allow you to download the book from the publisher's (e.g. penguin) server. or 3) An umbrella organization for all the publishers is created. The organization manages the ebook standard and hosts the ebooks themselves. Publishers pay money to the organization per download basis (to cover the hosting cost) + a yearly membership fee (to cover the management costs) 4) The umbrella organization can actually sell the ebooks itself (maybe even use advertising to cancel out the yearly membership fee) and/or resell them to major retailers. Everybody could sell their book to the umbrella organization, pay for the sharing costs and make their book available around the world. This would allow easier publishing, cut out the 30-40% retailer margin and make the books more available. The current model has the retailers to closely tied to the whole system. Without them, nothing works, so they are the price-makers. Furthermore, retailers actually make the ereaders so they get to subsidize the reader and spread the cost on the books, this unfortunately provides disincentives to support other platforms. Therefore we need to centralize the distribution system. The first steps would be creating an open standard that every retailer has to support, so we wouldn't have to be tied to their devices.
danilocampos 16y ago
It used to be that buying a great portable game was $40. Full stop, you couldn't leave the store with a great, recent portable game for anything less than $40. Now, I can get Plants vs. Zombies on my iPad, a game that rivals or even exceeds the production values, play time and overall fun of these $40 games, for under $8. At 2 AM. Without leaving my house. Why aren't we seeing the same pricing evolution with eBooks? We got to that cost structure in digitally distributed games by eliminating a bunch of bullshit salaries that exist between the creators and the consumers. We need to see the same cutting happen in the publishing industry before we can enjoy decent pricing. By its nature, this is going to be slower – software and game developers are quicker to try new technologies and distribution channels than people whose industry began over 500 years ago. But it's going to happen – there's no reason to be so stingy with publishing when you don't have to risk physical printing and distribution. Which means a lot of professional taste makers are going to find themselves obsolete.
- jkahn 16y ago
  I think you're right - this is exactly what will happen, but it will take time. Games have been mainstream in a downloadable format for a very long time, eBooks are only just becoming popular, despite the fact that books are ancient. I'm looking at Amazon to do this - they're best placed to right now. But when, is hard to say. I imagine it will start slowly, with independent authors publishing their own books, until a critical mass is reached where a large number of authors will switch over to self-publishing.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  >Why aren't we seeing the same pricing evolution with eBooks? Because no "pricing evolution" ever took place. Pricing works as it always has. We, the buyers have decided we're not willing to pay over $8 for Plants vs. Zombies on the iPad. I still costs $30 or more for the computer. Most things on the iPad will cost less than their computer equivalent because the apps are simply not as powerful (unless it's a really simple app). You seem to be arguing that it costs less to distribute and that's why it costs less on the iPad. How can that be the case for companies like EA sports who've had to rewrite their sports apps for a completely new platform? It has actually cost them more and they've charged less. EBooks cost more precisely because they are easier to distribute. For customers. If I buy a book on amazon I suddenly have it everywhere. And I have all my books where ever I go. Pricing is only confusing when you mistakenly assume price = production cost + distribution cost + 10% markup.
nod 16y ago
That is the wrong question. The question should be, "Why are ebooks priced so high?"
coffeedrinker 16y ago
It depends on the value of the book, and the author, and the content. A very famous author is more akin to a best selling band. The can afford to charge less because they can make up for it through volume. I've written several books, and they are available in print as well as digital formats. I think that my books are valuable and that people reading them will get $10 worth of value out of them (actually I think they will get a lot more). The real question for me is, "Why are some people so cheap as to think my work is worthless and theirs is so valuable?" Some won't hesitate to plop down $4 at Starbucks for a coffee but then complain that a book that will bring hours of pleasure or instruction is not worth two or three times as much.
nickpinkston 16y ago
I want to know when the BitTorrent market for eBooks becomes as well populated as the one for MP3s. I hope soon!
- rmc 16y ago
  It's not far off that now. One annoyance at the moment is that loads of books are just scans of pages in a pdf. So they aren't computer readable text, no searching, no font size chasing, no reflowable text. It's a pain by eventually Oct will get good enough.
  - nickpinkston 16y ago
    Any good sources or eBook themed trackers you can recommend?
    - rmc 16y ago
      I don't know of any specific ones. I just use Demoinoid mostly.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
bhousel 16y ago
This story is especially timely for me - I'm building a website http://www.booklends.com http://www.booklends.com that will let Kindle and Nook owners lend books to each other easily. It's kinda my weekend startup right now. I'm hoping to have the site ready enough in a few days enough to do a "Ask HN: Review my startup" post... It is now possible to lend some Kindle and Nook books to other users for 14 days - but only if the publishers allow it. I feel that if the current craziness in eBook pricing continues, this will only drive people towards using the lending features of their devices. This story did also answer another question for me: I never understood why Amazon removed from their API the ability to get a Kindle book's Offer Price. (somewhat terse announcement here: https://forums.aws.amazon.com/ann.jspa?annID=854 https://forums.aws.amazon.com/ann.jspa?annID=854 ) You can query the List Price, but this isn't what people would actually pay for the book. Sounds like they removed this ability because the publishers are making them play games with the actual price that they can offer to customers.
92elements 16y ago
because people like to make MONIEs and dont care about you
forgottenpaswrd 16y ago
I don't know, but talking to tech professional writers I have responses similar to this: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/12/bedtime-story.html http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/12/bedtime-story.html Long story sort: If you get more money with the digital version than with paper you don't need publishers, or editors at all, you don't need to give away your copyrights in exchange for access to market by the gatekeepers(publishers) and a minority of the profits. You don't even have to ask for permission, just let the market decide, like web startups. On digital you just make an alpha version and send to friends for testing, make a public beta like this book: http://iphone-3d-programming.labs.oreilly.com/ http://iphone-3d-programming.labs.oreilly.com/ ...And just sell your book digital taking 70% of the money and never losing your copy rights, like you do when you sign with a (paper)publisher.
patrickgzill 16y ago
Expect prices to fall as ebook reader penetration/market share increases. Already, my (B&N) NookColor shows me variably-priced books as I browse. Even "Agency Pricing" will fall as the cartel's power decreases in the future.
loewenskind 16y ago
A lot of people in this thread are going off course due to the red herring about how much it costs to make an ebook. There are systems where cost is based on price to make but capitalism isn't one of them. The real issue here is Agency pricing. Personally I don't understand why a company like Amazon wouldn't try to do something against them since it constrains what they can do with ebooks, an otherwise very flexible product. They could do things like selling a high end camera ebook at a loss provided the customer also buys that camera from them. With this pricing scheme they have no flexibility with ebook prices at all. They are essentially providing an online store for publishers to sell their products directly. Is 30% a fair price for such a service (personally I might try to get more because their store might be competing against mine)?
rdl 16y ago
Obviously, value vs. cost pricing is key. However, ebooks are less functional than physical books in some key ways, at least with current DRM - you can't easily lend a book (the restricted amazon form is pretty weak), and you can't resell it. Assuming "like having a nice physical object" and "convenience of carrying all my books on one device" are a wash, the lack of lending or resale should definitely make the ebook cheaper.

66 points by barredo 16y ago

One of the other main reasons ebooks costs so much is because they are sold in proprietary formats. Yes, some costs associated with producing, distributing, and selling physical books are diminished, but at the same time, publishers now have to pay to convert their text to each retailer's ebook format -- both a set fee and per-copy-sold fee. Publishers are forced to pay-to-play (essentially) in Amazon's store, or B&N's store, or whatnot, so that their books are available in their formats, a cost that is then folded into the production of the ebook. So yes, some costs go down, others go up. On a side note, the agency pricing model actually is better for most authors/illustrators as well, not just their publisher. Physical book, the author gets a set royalty (anywhere between 5-15%) based on the retail price. Ebook, the author gets 25% of net receipts. The breakdown there is: $10 physical book at 10% royalty: $1 per book to the author (out of ~$5 to the publisher) $10 ebook at 25% net: $1.75 per book to the author (out of ~$7 to publisher) It's a move toward more fair compensation for the content creators.

zokier 16y ago

Because people are ready to pay so much for them?

nodata 16y ago

Because of the higher costs of manufacturing and distribution, plus all the real estate to store the books.

toddh 16y ago

Agencies won't be around much longer in any case. Disintermediation strikes again.

robryan 16y ago
I can't see them disappearing completely, possibly they will become more streamlined where the author can get a better deal only taking on board services they need.
bl4k 16y ago
If I were to write a book, either technical or a novel, I would be tempted to hire a freelance copyrighter, editor and publicist, then list it on Amazon, Safari etc. myself. You can find these people on Elance and similar sites, but there is an opportunity for a website that is a one-stop-shop to do all of this in one place (ie. find the various people, organize listing, sales etc.). Anybody know if this already exists?

tommi 16y ago

Perhaps because people are willing to pay and without the high price on ebooks, the price of traditional books would not be justified. All in all, I hate how many books are made too verbose just to sell more pages and therefore have higher price. The same content would be better communicated with less repetition and side content.

nhangen 16y ago
This is exactly why I enjoyed Crush It, by Gary Vaynerchuk. Quick and to the point. So many business books especially read like a collection of blog posts and filler, rather than providing a real and valuable hypothesis.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

GavinB 16y ago

This article talks about pricing models, but doesn't discuss why an ebook costs 9.99 and not 0.99. One reason is simple economics: there's no perfect substitute for a specific book. If I want the next book by my favorite author, buying another book with a similar looking cover won't really do it. So price wars aren't as competitive as they are in, say, the grocery store. But the bigger reason is that it costs a lot to produce quality books at scale. First a publisher has to decide to make the investment. This means an editorial assistant or intern needs to read hundreds of manuscripts. Agents will read thousands of queries and hundreds of books to find one that they will actually publish. The actual editors will ready ten or twenty books for each one that they want to make an offer on--and then usually not end up with the winning bid. Which means starting over and looking for another book. Don't forget that when an editor is trying to acquire a book, she has to consult with marketing, sales, and other groups in the company who will judge how well they will be able to support the book. To get a few good books, they have to run through this process many times. Don't forget that contracts need legal review and an accountant need to make sure that the author is paid. Once a book is acquired by a publisher, the editor takes it through several revisions, which will usually substantially alter it. In this stage a book may suddenly become very emotionally compelling or gripping--in ways that a casual reader wouldn't have predicted. Or maybe it will lose a boring introduction that would have turned readers off before they got to the good parts. Once a book is edited, it needs to be typeset and copyedited, which means a lot more reading by a few more people. Also, it needs a cover design, and possibly interior art, which needs not only to be created but art directed. And legal may need to review it if there are usages of brand names or other potential issues. At this point, we actually have a book. It looks like a book, it reads like a book, and it could now realistically be tested against a target market. There's no such thing as a minimum viable product for a book. I'd like to see a more scientific, testing-based approach in publishing, but often the book doesn't come together into a hit-worthy package until you've done the work to take it all the way. You might have ten books with hit potential, but only one of them comes out of this process having fulfilled its potential. Now, someone needs to put the book out and actually market it. This means a publicity person needs to get the word out to the press, and marketers who buy ads and run campaigns. In the modern world, someone needs to be on facebook and twitter. Often this is the author, but it's still adding to the amount of work that went into the book. The author will probably also be touring around in meatspace, possibly paid for by the publisher and possibly not, but that money is coming from the consumers no matter what. The book files will need to be archived and corrected for future editions, and someone will need to manage the financial relationship with the author as the book is published across print editions and various ebook retailers, each with its own quirks and process. And speaking of ebook retailers, they need to get paid to! Their 30% has to cover all the costs of running their operation, which may include subsidizing ereader devices and all the costs of negotiating with both the big publishers and the hundreds of little ones. Even after this painstaking process, many books will fail. A bunch will barely earn back their investment. The regular-sized hits will keep the business afloat, and the mega-hits will make it worth being in the business in the first place. It's really hard to predict whether people will like your final product until you put that final product out into the marketplace. For entertainment products this is especially true, because a little bit of polish makes a huge difference. I'm sure I've missed things, but keep in mind that the cost of printing and shipping most books is less than $2 for a hardcover, less than $1 for a paperback. Is there a better way to do this? Of course there is. But it isn't here yet, and it's a lot harder than you think (but I highly encourage you to try!). Someday, someone will figure out how to crowdsource a lot of this or turn it into a scientific numbers-driven process, but early experiments have not made a lot of progress. tl;dr Producing good books at scale is expensive and requires creating a lot of not-so-good books as a side product. The physical manufacture has never been the main cost driver.

ThomPete 16y ago

For no particular reasoning other than they can get away with it.

vladok 16y ago
Another way to say "they can get away with it" is "enough customers still find the product more valuable than the cash price set for it"
- ThomPete 16y ago
  Sure. But don't you have to factor in those who download it for free to find the "real price" then?
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    Theft generically pushes prices up. Not down.
    - ThomPete 16y ago
      It's not theft in my book.
    - chc 16y ago
      That's because theft generically reduces inventory while leaving the seller with the need to recoup the marginal cost of the item stolen. This is one of the many reasons why downloading something without the copyright holder's OK is not the same thing as theft. (This is not to say it isn't a crime or that it's morally OK — just that if it is a crime, it's one other than theft.)
      - loewenskind 16y ago
        >This is one of the many reasons why downloading something without the copyright holder's OK is not the same thing as theft. This is pure nonsense. It's true that no inventory is lost when a product is downloaded and in some cases no sale as well. But you'll never convince me (and it's impossible to prove) that every single person who ever downloaded any software wouldn't have purchased it had they not had the option of stealing it. The issue is that software has huge up front costs. If people were to follow your "morals" there would be no reasonable way to recoup those up front costs, since it would just be ok to take what you want. I do tend to think that the fact that the creator continues to get full price long after they've past production costs and made a healthy profit could use some scrutiny (i.e. is there a better way to do this), but software is hardly the only industry where this is the case.

geekfactor 16y ago

In April of 2010, 5 of the major publishers (Penguin/Putnam being one of them) instituted what is now called Agency Pricing. Can anyone explain how this isn't considered price fixing, collusion or otherwise anti-competitive?

ashconnor 16y ago
Because the works are unique?
wnoise 16y ago
Or a violation of the First Sale Doctrine[1], for that matter. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
- wmf 16y ago
  They probably think ebooks are licensed, not sold.
aidenn0 16y ago
This is technically a vertical move. They are offering their books to sellers through the store with amazon (et. al.) taking a chunk. So they set the price.

barrkel 16y ago

Ebooks aren't even competitive with actual books, second-hand books in particular. For almost any popular book published more than a few years ago, it's a lot cheaper to get it in a second-hand bookshop.

jonhendry 16y ago
That doesn't help if you tend not to read the sorts of popular books that are easy to find in second-hand bookshops. Nor if you don't want to spend a bunch of time shopping for books that may or may not be in stock. In my experience, second-hand bookstores are great for serendipitous finds - books that look interesting that you weren't looking for and maybe didn't know existed, not so much for finding a specific book.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

bugsy 16y ago

Interesting article on "Agency Pricing". So all the big players in the industry come together, make a pricing compact that no one can break, and as a side effect lock out all the smaller players. How is this not price fixing and collusion?

andrest 16y ago

This is my personal opinion of what could be the solution. 1) Ebooks will be kept on publishers' servers 2) A standard which all ebook readers can read will be adapted (during the crossover period publishers can keep ebooks in multiple formats) This could be it. Now the retail sellers can sell the book for a lower cost. Every time a purchase is made, let's say a key is generated by the retailer (e.g. amazon) that will allow you to download the book from the publisher's (e.g. penguin) server. or 3) An umbrella organization for all the publishers is created. The organization manages the ebook standard and hosts the ebooks themselves. Publishers pay money to the organization per download basis (to cover the hosting cost) + a yearly membership fee (to cover the management costs) 4) The umbrella organization can actually sell the ebooks itself (maybe even use advertising to cancel out the yearly membership fee) and/or resell them to major retailers. Everybody could sell their book to the umbrella organization, pay for the sharing costs and make their book available around the world. This would allow easier publishing, cut out the 30-40% retailer margin and make the books more available. The current model has the retailers to closely tied to the whole system. Without them, nothing works, so they are the price-makers. Furthermore, retailers actually make the ereaders so they get to subsidize the reader and spread the cost on the books, this unfortunately provides disincentives to support other platforms. Therefore we need to centralize the distribution system. The first steps would be creating an open standard that every retailer has to support, so we wouldn't have to be tied to their devices.

danilocampos 16y ago

It used to be that buying a great portable game was $40. Full stop, you couldn't leave the store with a great, recent portable game for anything less than $40. Now, I can get Plants vs. Zombies on my iPad, a game that rivals or even exceeds the production values, play time and overall fun of these $40 games, for under $8. At 2 AM. Without leaving my house. Why aren't we seeing the same pricing evolution with eBooks? We got to that cost structure in digitally distributed games by eliminating a bunch of bullshit salaries that exist between the creators and the consumers. We need to see the same cutting happen in the publishing industry before we can enjoy decent pricing. By its nature, this is going to be slower – software and game developers are quicker to try new technologies and distribution channels than people whose industry began over 500 years ago. But it's going to happen – there's no reason to be so stingy with publishing when you don't have to risk physical printing and distribution. Which means a lot of professional taste makers are going to find themselves obsolete.

jkahn 16y ago
I think you're right - this is exactly what will happen, but it will take time. Games have been mainstream in a downloadable format for a very long time, eBooks are only just becoming popular, despite the fact that books are ancient. I'm looking at Amazon to do this - they're best placed to right now. But when, is hard to say. I imagine it will start slowly, with independent authors publishing their own books, until a critical mass is reached where a large number of authors will switch over to self-publishing.
loewenskind 16y ago
>Why aren't we seeing the same pricing evolution with eBooks? Because no "pricing evolution" ever took place. Pricing works as it always has. We, the buyers have decided we're not willing to pay over $8 for Plants vs. Zombies on the iPad. I still costs $30 or more for the computer. Most things on the iPad will cost less than their computer equivalent because the apps are simply not as powerful (unless it's a really simple app). You seem to be arguing that it costs less to distribute and that's why it costs less on the iPad. How can that be the case for companies like EA sports who've had to rewrite their sports apps for a completely new platform? It has actually cost them more and they've charged less. EBooks cost more precisely because they are easier to distribute. For customers. If I buy a book on amazon I suddenly have it everywhere. And I have all my books where ever I go. Pricing is only confusing when you mistakenly assume price = production cost + distribution cost + 10% markup.

nod 16y ago

That is the wrong question. The question should be, "Why are ebooks priced so high?"

coffeedrinker 16y ago

It depends on the value of the book, and the author, and the content. A very famous author is more akin to a best selling band. The can afford to charge less because they can make up for it through volume. I've written several books, and they are available in print as well as digital formats. I think that my books are valuable and that people reading them will get $10 worth of value out of them (actually I think they will get a lot more). The real question for me is, "Why are some people so cheap as to think my work is worthless and theirs is so valuable?" Some won't hesitate to plop down $4 at Starbucks for a coffee but then complain that a book that will bring hours of pleasure or instruction is not worth two or three times as much.

nickpinkston 16y ago

I want to know when the BitTorrent market for eBooks becomes as well populated as the one for MP3s. I hope soon!

rmc 16y ago
It's not far off that now. One annoyance at the moment is that loads of books are just scans of pages in a pdf. So they aren't computer readable text, no searching, no font size chasing, no reflowable text. It's a pain by eventually Oct will get good enough.
- nickpinkston 16y ago
  Any good sources or eBook themed trackers you can recommend?
  - rmc 16y ago
    I don't know of any specific ones. I just use Demoinoid mostly.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

bhousel 16y ago

This story is especially timely for me - I'm building a website http://www.booklends.com http://www.booklends.com that will let Kindle and Nook owners lend books to each other easily. It's kinda my weekend startup right now. I'm hoping to have the site ready enough in a few days enough to do a "Ask HN: Review my startup" post... It is now possible to lend some Kindle and Nook books to other users for 14 days - but only if the publishers allow it. I feel that if the current craziness in eBook pricing continues, this will only drive people towards using the lending features of their devices. This story did also answer another question for me: I never understood why Amazon removed from their API the ability to get a Kindle book's Offer Price. (somewhat terse announcement here: https://forums.aws.amazon.com/ann.jspa?annID=854 https://forums.aws.amazon.com/ann.jspa?annID=854 ) You can query the List Price, but this isn't what people would actually pay for the book. Sounds like they removed this ability because the publishers are making them play games with the actual price that they can offer to customers.

92elements 16y ago

because people like to make MONIEs and dont care about you

forgottenpaswrd 16y ago

I don't know, but talking to tech professional writers I have responses similar to this: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/12/bedtime-story.html http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/12/bedtime-story.html Long story sort: If you get more money with the digital version than with paper you don't need publishers, or editors at all, you don't need to give away your copyrights in exchange for access to market by the gatekeepers(publishers) and a minority of the profits. You don't even have to ask for permission, just let the market decide, like web startups. On digital you just make an alpha version and send to friends for testing, make a public beta like this book: http://iphone-3d-programming.labs.oreilly.com/ http://iphone-3d-programming.labs.oreilly.com/ ...And just sell your book digital taking 70% of the money and never losing your copy rights, like you do when you sign with a (paper)publisher.

patrickgzill 16y ago

Expect prices to fall as ebook reader penetration/market share increases. Already, my (B&N) NookColor shows me variably-priced books as I browse. Even "Agency Pricing" will fall as the cartel's power decreases in the future.

loewenskind 16y ago

A lot of people in this thread are going off course due to the red herring about how much it costs to make an ebook. There are systems where cost is based on price to make but capitalism isn't one of them. The real issue here is Agency pricing. Personally I don't understand why a company like Amazon wouldn't try to do something against them since it constrains what they can do with ebooks, an otherwise very flexible product. They could do things like selling a high end camera ebook at a loss provided the customer also buys that camera from them. With this pricing scheme they have no flexibility with ebook prices at all. They are essentially providing an online store for publishers to sell their products directly. Is 30% a fair price for such a service (personally I might try to get more because their store might be competing against mine)?

rdl 16y ago

Obviously, value vs. cost pricing is key. However, ebooks are less functional than physical books in some key ways, at least with current DRM - you can't easily lend a book (the restricted amazon form is pretty weak), and you can't resell it. Assuming "like having a nice physical object" and "convenience of carrying all my books on one device" are a wash, the lack of lending or resale should definitely make the ebook cheaper.