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Absolutely. The problem is only going to become much worse now, due to banning sales of legal/regulated products. Relatedly, Massachusetts governor just announc

Absolutely. The problem is only going to become much worse now, due to banning sales of legal/regulated products. Relatedly, Massachusetts governor just announced a 4 month total ban on ALL vaporizer products (THC, Nicotine, flavored, unflavored) despite zero Massachusetts vape deaths, so consumers will now be turning either to cigarettes (which kill 1,300 people per DAY nationwide) or black market THC/Nicotine vaporizers which are the very likely causes of the current unknown illnesses and deaths as you mention.

bsagdiyev 7y ago
Smoking kills 40k people, per day, in the US? That number seems off. I don't think there are that many births in a day so we'd be losing a lot of people.
- cypherpunks01 7y ago
  Whoops, misread a stat! Corrected, it's 1,300
  - WhompingWindows 7y ago
    You're performing numerator analysis there. You're comparing deaths irrespective of number of users, never mind their duration/frequency of use. For smokers, this would be pack-years, which is the number of daily packs times the number of years. There's the sheer volume of smokers, probably 10x the number of vapers? Hard to say, I'm not well read on the literature. In any case, comparing numerators here is not good epidemiology, as smokers are far more numerous and have used for far longer/heavier use.
rbranson 7y ago
40,000 people per day? Seems a little high.
- cypherpunks01 7y ago
  Whoops, corrected! it's 1,300, as per CDC https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...
  - jrnichols 7y ago
    In my job as a Paramedic, i can't even begin to count the number of people I've seen with respiratory distress that is directly related to cigarette smoking. It's absolutely horrible for you. :/
cududa 7y ago
I believe you’re referring to Michigan? Incidentally my former summer camp counselor is the lawyer challenging that ban https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/2019/09/25/vape-shop-owner-sues-michigan-flavored-vaping-ban/2444773001/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/201...
anigbrowl 7y ago
Cigarettes are bad but they kill you slowly and predictably. Vaping is better, but absent quality control it might kill you in unexpected and unpredictable ways (because right now we much less about what vape manufacturers are doing than we do about cigarette manufacturing or the effects of raw tobacco or cannabis). Looking at it as a one-dimensional continuum of worse-better can be quite misleading if the problem is better represented by 2 or 3 coefficients.
dmitrygr 7y ago
> despite zero Massachusetts vape deaths There were deaths in other states. How close do they need to be geographically till it is ok to do this precautionarily?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
sl1ck731 7y ago
Not only that, the massive hysteria and misinformation is a problem for everyone outside those states that are shotgunning measures. I took a hiatus on my nicotine vape when the news started exploding and went back to another form of tobacco as I just didn't know what was going on. Its the devil you know vs the one you don't.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Snus?
  - sl1ck731 7y ago
    Close, dipping tobacco.

bsagdiyev 7y ago

Smoking kills 40k people, per day, in the US? That number seems off. I don't think there are that many births in a day so we'd be losing a lot of people.

cypherpunks01 7y ago
Whoops, misread a stat! Corrected, it's 1,300
- WhompingWindows 7y ago
  You're performing numerator analysis there. You're comparing deaths irrespective of number of users, never mind their duration/frequency of use. For smokers, this would be pack-years, which is the number of daily packs times the number of years. There's the sheer volume of smokers, probably 10x the number of vapers? Hard to say, I'm not well read on the literature. In any case, comparing numerators here is not good epidemiology, as smokers are far more numerous and have used for far longer/heavier use.

rbranson 7y ago

40,000 people per day? Seems a little high.

cypherpunks01 7y ago
Whoops, corrected! it's 1,300, as per CDC https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...
- jrnichols 7y ago
  In my job as a Paramedic, i can't even begin to count the number of people I've seen with respiratory distress that is directly related to cigarette smoking. It's absolutely horrible for you. :/

cududa 7y ago

I believe you’re referring to Michigan? Incidentally my former summer camp counselor is the lawyer challenging that ban https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/2019/09/25/vape-shop-owner-sues-michigan-flavored-vaping-ban/2444773001/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/201...

anigbrowl 7y ago

Cigarettes are bad but they kill you slowly and predictably. Vaping is better, but absent quality control it might kill you in unexpected and unpredictable ways (because right now we much less about what vape manufacturers are doing than we do about cigarette manufacturing or the effects of raw tobacco or cannabis). Looking at it as a one-dimensional continuum of worse-better can be quite misleading if the problem is better represented by 2 or 3 coefficients.

dmitrygr 7y ago

> despite zero Massachusetts vape deaths There were deaths in other states. How close do they need to be geographically till it is ok to do this precautionarily?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

sl1ck731 7y ago

Not only that, the massive hysteria and misinformation is a problem for everyone outside those states that are shotgunning measures. I took a hiatus on my nicotine vape when the news started exploding and went back to another form of tobacco as I just didn't know what was going on. Its the devil you know vs the one you don't.

Scoundreller 7y ago
Snus?
- sl1ck731 7y ago
  Close, dipping tobacco.