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New research suggests that we’re making ourselves sick over politics

123 points by elorant 7y ago

freejulian85 7y ago
At some point people need to wake up and realize they actually have very little control over what the government is doing. How long have we been talking about fixing healthcare? 20 years now? Nothing changes. And Obamacare was not a fix, just a way to shut up the population. How long have we been demanding an end to endless wars? How long have we been demanding actual action on climate change? What happened when crimes of the government are exposed by Assange and Snowden? We punish the whistleblowers! What was the end result of the Panama papers? Nothing. What about the elite being engaged in pedophilia on a massive scale? What’s that, Epstein committed suicide and the prison staff won’t cooperate in an investigation? Carry on fine citizen, nothing to see here. None of these things will change because the elite are enjoying the status quo. Now proceed fighting amongst yourselves over <insert social wedge issue here>.
- davidw 7y ago
  To accomplish those things, you'd need to elect people who want to do that. Good luck with how the Senate is elected, and the electoral college. It's not "the elites", it's who people are voting for.
- zaroth 7y ago
  Watching you edit this, this went from a rant I thought it might be worth responding to, to flame bait. I hate the defeatist attitude and rewriting history as if there hasn’t actually been incredible progress on so, so many fronts. There are interesting and important discussions to be had here, but not from this starting point.
  - freejulian85 7y ago
    Perhaps you can start by naming some progress that has been made? I see very little.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      Poverty is at an all-time low worldwide: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-rate-drops-to-record-low.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-ra... Crime is at an all-time low: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-crime-may-be-near-an-all-time-low https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-... There are fewer hungry people today than before: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/411265021/there-are-200-million-fewer-hungry-people-than-25-years-ago https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/4112650.... In terms of warfare, the world is the most peaceful it's ever been (full-scale, high death count wars used to be fought every decade or so between major powers): https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-people-than-ever-before/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-... While true that, cumulatively speaking, the United States has pumped out the most greenhouse gas of any conutry, it is improving faster than other countries. In the past decade, the United States has cut 11% of it's GHG emissions: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/18512804/climate-change-united-states-china-emissions https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/1851280... https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-during-trumps-first-year-office https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-gree...
      - smcg 7y ago
        Just because things are better now does not mean that they are good. Ask the poor, hungry, and war-torn if they think things are fine, there are millions of them. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-good https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-...
        tathougies 7y ago
        You are changing the goalposts. Please stop. The comment did not ask me to cite statistics claiming that the world is perfect. It merely asked for citations to statistics indicating the world is making progress I responded by offering solid data naming several metrics indicating that many outcomes that people find desirable (less poverty, less hunger, etc) are indeed closer to being achieved today than before. By definition, if something is getting better, it was not perfect (which is what you are asking for), so nowhere in my claim did I say or imply anything about the world being 'good'. On a separate note: We shouldn't use ill-defined terms like 'good'. There's no objective definition of what a 'good' world would look like. For example, many philosophers have argued the world is indeed good, despite the existence of all kinds of pestulences, plagues, and natural disasters. The key in understanding them would be understanding in what sense they use the word 'good'.
- aalleavitch 7y ago
  The realization by the masses that they have no control over their own lives is the progenitor of revolution. Do the beneficiaries of the status quo understand the resentment they are building? History has shown they seldom do until it is too late.
- rrggrr 7y ago
  No, no, no, no. Most decisions that impact your life in the US start at the city level. You CAN get involved and make a difference. It all starts there. Don't check out.
  - freejulian85 7y ago
    Are you kidding me?! Here in Chicago we have enormous financial problems and every year that goes by brings us further away from even attempting to fix those problems. The streets are falling apart, crimes go unsolved, pollution goes unpunished. The candidates for mayor are always first chosen by the elite, then put on stage for the public to select. It’s a joke. If anything, it’s even easier for the powerful elite to control local governments. Look at all the polluted water flowing through lead pipes across the country — what’s happening about that again? Excuse me, time to print some money and give it to the banks in another nightly “repo operation”.
    - notfromhere 7y ago
      You probably don't remember Chicago in the 90s if you think things are getting worse.
      - freejulian85 7y ago
        The improvement in Chicago is due to people fleeing government subsidized suburbia.
        bilbo0s 7y ago
        Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think this is a good illustration of the news dynamic. Everyone has their own opinion. Everyone lives in a world where "everyone I know agrees with me on this!" Everyone is stressed because maybe some others disagree. And then we all fall into a pattern of engaging in almost meaningless arguments about these issues with each other. Causing even more stress. I think what the above exchange demonstrates is that unfortunately, "politics", or whatever you want to call it, really is stressful and contentious to the point of being dangerous to society even at the local level. It's amazing how big this problem is.
- eyo2019 7y ago
  In America, we all bitch about politics, give up, and wonder why things suck. Meanwhile people are protesting quite vigorously, in HK, Paris, all over the Middle East a few years ago, etc. If we want the change we're looking for, we need to get in the streets and disrupt daily life for everyone until we collectively get what we are demanding.
  - grenoire 7y ago
    America is just way bigger than any of those countries/cities; and we also know that, historically, American protestors have had significant difficulties organising themselves in a manner that is representative of the interests of the people who they have managed to rally.
- bigYahnz 7y ago
  Start doling out punishments worthy for such offenses and they will stop? End lineages. Publicly. The behavior will cease.
tristanperry 7y ago
It's unfortunately very similar here in the UK: whilst most people are 'getting on with it', there's an increasing amount of division and stress due to the whole Brexit debacle.
- XJ6 7y ago
  Brexit related stress is very real, especially for residents who are EU citizens who may be very long time residents but haven't ever thought of the need to get official residency. "Settled status" is of little comfort when they look and see a PM willing to act unlawfully.
  - upstandingdude 7y ago
    Dunno the brits that live in Germany can just get a unlimited residency permit without any fuss.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      Unconditionally? This is absolutely not the case for the UK "settled status" fiasco.
  - growlist 7y ago
    > Brexit related stress is very real and also for those that feel that voting has been proven to be pointless, and democracy a sham.
- ThrowItAway2Day 7y ago
  As there should be, the outcome of the Brexit negotiations will effect every day of your life as a UK citizen.
- x86_64Ubuntu 7y ago
  Um, Brexit is a big deal. It's so big that there is talk that we might see a united Ireland in our time, that's how big it is.
tamaharbor 7y ago
Trump is mentioned on every hourly newscast, every day. Before him, if you didn’t pay much attention, you would never even know who the President was.
davidw 7y ago
No kidding. This current situation goes beyond simple policy disagreements, but goes right to the heart of whether the US president is above the law or not. As a consequence, are there any checks on his interference in our elections? How's democracy going to work out if there aren't? I'd like my kids to grow up in a democracy, and this deterioration is really f'ing stressful. (If you're one of those "but it's a Republic, not a Democracy!" people - save it)
- Cuuugi 7y ago
  I feel like you didn't "read" the study, but were studied...
- zaroth 7y ago
  Unfortunately HN isn’t the place to be able to ask the basic question of how we can spend 3 years working with foreign governments to investigate Trump for something which was never found to be true, but Hunter Biden actually does walk away with millions of dollars from Ukraine and flies out of China on Air Force Two with billions from Bank of China, and asking them to investigate why Joe (by his own admission) extorted them into firing the prosecutor — that is literally treason?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - pjc50 7y ago
    Maybe both of these things are bad if true? It's just that hyper-partisanship and making the senior levels of the justice system into political appointments have made it impossible to hold the powerful to account.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      Well I think it’s definitely questionable to go on a fishing expedition without any evidence. But I don’t think it can be bad to ask someone to investigate if a known extortionate action was undertaken for a corrupt cause when we have direct evidence that there was a large personal financial benefit received.
XJ6 7y ago
> 22.1% admit they care too much about who wins and who loses Recommendation: Stop framing it as "winning" and "losing".
- macintux 7y ago
  I’d just be grateful if pundits and especially politicians would start referring to “opponents” instead of “enemies”.
  - rb808 7y ago
    I looked up synonyms for opponents and my favorite is "fellow contestant"
- mfer 7y ago
  Unfortunately, getting people onto sides is part of candidates plans and execution. People are being lead into this mentality on purpose.
- batty_alex 7y ago
  Looked at from a different angle, the folks that get put into office get to decide who "wins" and who "loses" among the citizenry. That'd be enough to give me some anxiety. What if the person that gets into office has enough political power to bring back the Pre-existing condition nonsense? That would certainly decide that my wife and I deserve to "lose" for being born with certain chronic conditions. For us, it would hurt, for some people they may just completely "lose" their livelihood. Just a thought. EDIT: Wanted to make sure I mentioned that I agree with your initial premise.
nickjj 7y ago
> Politics are impossible to escape That's a bold claim to put in the title but I believe it's generally true unless you're in a position to not have to directly deal with paying taxes (homeless or so rich that someone else deals with it for you). I would consider myself to be extremely unpolitical. Honestly speaking I don't even know who my state's mayor is, I never voted and I don't listen to the news. I simply don't care about any of that stuff because I know as an individual it's close to impossible to change anything due to how politics work in the first place (it follows money not popularity). However, when it comes to paying taxes or health insurance penalties you can't avoid thinking about or dealing with it and it's stressful even in those short doses of having to deal with taxes a few times a year (quarterly taxes).
- admax88q 7y ago
  Paying taxes is not politics. Being stressed about that is just the same as being stressed about any other personal administration task.
  - nickjj 7y ago
    > Paying taxes is not politics. Being stressed about that is just the same as being stressed about any other personal administration task. I think it's very much related because as soon as you talk or think about taxes you immediately correlate it to forcefully giving the government a large amount of your hard earned money. And now it becomes political because you might not see directs benefits of that, so now you wonder why you pay so many hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxes over your life, but there's potholes in your neighborhood for years that could break a car's axle and thieves are breaking into houses with police who don't care enough to solve the mystery, all while you continue to pay some of the highest state tax in the US (percent wise). And it snow balls from there. You begin to wonder why so much has to be spent on things you don't necessarily agree with and before you know it, you're ruminating on this stuff to the point where your heart is racing and you want to move to a private ungoverned island. Thinking about stuff like that is super disappointing / demoralizing to me, so I try my best to avoid it as much as possible. I know avoiding bad things is usually terrible advice but this is one case where I'm more than happy to not play the game or only play the absolute bare minimum to enjoy my life the best I can.
ForzaBlu 7y ago
What is the solution?
- asokoloski 7y ago
  I posted a link elsewhere in the comments -- check out the Better Angels organization. I think they're really on to something. They teach people how to talk about politics in a way that leads to a respectful conversation and consideration of each others views rather than a screaming match.
duxup 7y ago
Just turn on most TV news networks. It's the Apocalypse about everything all the time. Everything is tied together. You've got "experts" willing to make dramatic statements about anything at all. It's always "those people" causing something. Nobody sets any context. No real information is presented. It's just paranoia and panic made to hook people into watching more. I always have this fantasy where I start my own TV news network and it's "just news". If the topic is complex like something about the separation of powers, we do a little intro to that, then the news. I'm not sure it would be popular, but at the same time, i'm not convinced it wouldn't be considering the competition.
- platz 7y ago
  There is a lot of bad faith argument, which is exhausting. It would be nicer to see more of the principle of charity; but at a certain level of feeling aggrieved I'm not sure it's a reasonable expectation.
- batty_alex 7y ago
  > It's the Apocalypse about everything all the time. I just catch-up on the news once a week to avoid thinking about it too much. Yeah, there's madness, but a lot of it is beyond my reach. So, it's not really helpful for me to hear about what's going on more than once a week. > I always have this fantasy where I start my own TV news network and it's "just news". PBS News Hour tends to do this pretty well. The experts they bring on usually do a good job of just discussing facts and describing common stances on all sides. Part of your complaint has to do with the deregulation of the news industry, historically. In 1987, the FCC fairness doctrine was eliminated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine It's no mistake that it gave rise to a massive number of pundits under the guise of proper news outlets.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > I just catch-up on the news once a week to avoid thinking about it too much. For most people, you can probably stretch that. Catch up once a month, then catch up once every three months, then six, or twelve. Most people I've spoken too feel much better when they just quit "news".
dood2002 7y ago
this is exactly the kind of shit i come to hn to avoid
- WilliamEdward 7y ago
  HN is a board for things that are interesting. It is not against politics. Sometimes politics is interesting.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  On the front page, each article is really small. You can just skip past them. Clicking on it and leaving a comment is not how you ignore it.
  - jpindar 7y ago
    Better than that, each article on the front page has a "hide" button so you can remove (from your view) any that bother you.
ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
I've pretty much stopped taking in "the news", TV, internet even my home page is just a relaxing picture. Honestly, I feel way better and have realized how little "news" I need to know. Even on HN, I avoid political posts. Any news that I actually need to know comes to me via friends and family.
MaupitiBlue 7y ago
Bob Woodward was right. Much of the left is simply “unhinged” over Trump. Some of the antiObama stuff was bad, but the last few years have been pretty incredible.
- dawg- 7y ago
  Thus far in my life I have always voted Democrat, and have not been a big fan of Trump at all. But the word "unhinged" is a perfect descriptor. The cycle of outrage and self-righteousness is counterproductive. Even worse is that we now have people defending outrage, saying that "civil discourse" has been used as a bludgeon in the past to silence minorities and other oppressed groups. I get it, it has the ring of logic to it. But what's happening on Twitter nowadays is not the same thing as the sit-in lunches or freedom riders in the 60s. Not at all.
mfer 7y ago
Personally, since I started limiting social media to maybe a couple times a week, stopped watching the news shows, and trying to read long form investigative pieces of news I've become both much happier and more well informed. It's also easier to avoid unwittingly becoming part of mobs.
- ddtaylor 7y ago
  Where can I find long-form investigative pieces?
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    PBS Frontline is a series of long-form investigative pieces.
ravenstine 7y ago
One thing that I see making the situation worse is the lack of common cause and identity. There was always party division, but the other side was still seen as your fellow Americans. Today, not only is there an opposing side, they are seen as an enemy that must be totally annihilated. If we continue down this road it's going to be disastrous because it's going to leave no room for dissent inside or outside politics. I'm not saying that Americans never disagreed, war'd with each other, etc. That's not the point. The point is that we're losing that belief in an American ideal that helps keep us together while we debate our issues. The more divided we are, the more we'll be ripe for the picking by those who never cared about America in the first place. It's not just TV and social media, but a belief that America should be a hodge podge of cultures united by nothing but an empty consumerist culture. It's pretty hard for things like forgiveness, giving the benefit of the doubt, and seeing each other as human beings to actually work in such a place when there are political interests that benefit by having those principles eliminated. A hostile, low trust society clicks more ragebait and gobbles more food to combat depression.
- blackflame7000 7y ago
  Everyone needs to stop being so hypocritical. If we all started practicing what we preach more often it would go a long way. We need more objectivity and the ability to consider ideas that run contrary to our beliefs without feeling insecure.
- delecti 7y ago
  How much camaraderie should someone really be expected to show for an opposing party that actively opposes their human rights and remove regulations protecting the environment? A hostile low-trust society might be justified for the time being, and likely was previously too.
  - ravenstine 7y ago
    It can be justified, just as nearly anything can be justified under the right conditions. Whether present conditions, contrasting our current state with the state of the past, warrants such political lengths to divide people is questionable. Considering that they, like you, think they're right, you can at least grant other human beings the same dignity you wish to receive. Obviously, everything is subject to the situation but, from a big picture perspective, viewing yourself and others as fallible, as opposed to a Hollywood-esque fight between Good and Evil, is a greater exercise in humility. Like pulling the trigger on a gun, hostility and rejection should be a weapon reserved until there isn't an alternative. If you think there's no hope for a common understanding with Republicans(I think it's safe to assume that's whom you are referring to), then I guess all I have to say is that's kind of sad because I'm sure that you have family and friends who vote Republican(whether they tell you or not); why associate with them at all if you think a low-trust society is warranted? Think of it this way. A Republican might say: "How much comaraderie should one really be expected to show for an opposing party that actively opposes America as an individual nation, wants to impart an economic structure that's been disastrous in other parts of the world, embraces censorship, participated in proxy wars and knowingly murdered civilians with drones, uses minorities as political tools, hates white people, expanded the surveillance apparatus, and wants to take our guns away?" I know some imbecile is probably going to take that hypothetical quote as being my own position and attempt to argue every one of those points. Save your breath, whomever you are, because that's not at all what I'm claiming to believe. Whether they are actually right or wrong, they are Americans who, like you, care about the destiny of the country. That's where your camaraderie begins. If it ends there too, then too bad, but not having that common understanding is dangerous and useful to anyone who wants to control the masses.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
WilliamEdward 7y ago
Having exposed myself to a small circle of people on the internet with particular viewpoints, i've noticed politics is all i can think about lately. I can only imagine what it must be like to follow social media and have reactionary news articles thrown at you daily, something i've managed to avoid. It only makes sense that you chip off bits of your sanity every time you box yourself in with certain crowds and information feeds. Don't trap yourself in a bubble, people.
- fbisevil 7y ago
  Yes, getting off social media is great for mental health
ddtaylor 7y ago
I stopped paying any attention to politics years ago and I'm a person who coordinated and planned 2 campaigns in my local state. It saddens me that a large amount of people are stressed and consumed by a process that they have very very little impact on. Unless you live in a select few states, your state probably gets 2 electoral votes for your senators and a few more based on your district size. If you live in Montana, Alaska, North or South Dakota then you're getting the minimum of 3 electoral votes. It's really more about outrage culture at this point I think. I actually wonder how much harm is done by the election process in how it makes people think problems are being debated or solved when no legitimate debate is taking place and no real solutions are being implemented. Also, it doesn't matter which political party you are on. If you're a "left" leaning person who wants socialized healthcare, we never really got that. We got something that had some of the same words and ideas, but in the end nobody could actually go to a doctor without wealth being a large factor. If you're a "right" leaning person you probably want a smaller government that spends less and we never get that. For every reduction in law hundreds are added. One step forward, 99 steps backwards.
- jrumbut 7y ago
  It's actually the people in the small states whose votes are disproportionally powerful, since Wyoming voters elect the same number of senators as California voters and everyone's house district is within an order of magnitude size wise. New Hampshire gets ridiculously outsized attention in election years, as a small state, early primary state, and a swing state. Truly the trifecta and probably the state where an individual's vote matters the most. As for the last couple paragraphs, as someone who possesses an ideology I am disappointed I don't always get my way, and live in my utopia. But as someone who is aware others possess contrasting ideologies, I am glad I don't live in their dystopias. We have a system that encourages compromises, including very ugly and unjust compromises, as a way to avoid one side winning entirely and establishing a totalitarian (or anarchist) state. People seem to appreciate this less than they once did, but haven't done anything really to change it yet.
  - jrs235 7y ago
    People forget the U.S is a democratic constitutional republic. The federal government is not the humans government. It's the governing body for the States. Hence the reason for the electoral college and the way States are represented. Each state [government] has an equal voice in the Senate (and were represented by the Senators prior to the 17th Amendment). The house had a proportionate representation because it is ultimately the humans who have to pay for the running of the federal government. The president it the head of the day to day operations of the government. They are supposed to faithfully see that the laws passed by Congress are executed properly.
asokoloski 7y ago
I've just recently discovered it, but I'm a big fan of the work that Better Angels are doing to reduce political polarization in our society and help us communicate peacefully: https://www.better-angels.org/our-story/ https://www.better-angels.org/our-story/ I think it has a lot of potential to help with this problem.
malvosenior 7y ago
I’m be been alive for six presidents and the only thing that has had a direct and substantial impact on my life was Obamacare (it cost me a lot of money). I was glad when Trump got elected as I thought in might cause real change. Not because he’s competent but because he’s an outsider and prone to doing things the establishment would never do. He’s delivered a mixed bag on this theory but I think a lot of legacy corruption has been exposed (as well as his new corruption). It all stinks, but if you don’t follow the mainstream outrage machine you can live a happy life that doesn’t feel like near apocalypse every day.
- MaupitiBlue 7y ago
  I beat you with a little Ford, but couldn’t agree more. Everyone needs to turn off Facebook and take a deep breath. The sun will come out tomorrow.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  > It all stinks, but if you don’t follow the mainstream outrage machine you can live a happy life that doesn’t feel like near apocalypse every day. Unfortunately this isn't the case for your peers. Queer folks, for instance, are suffering violence and a steady attack by their government. Latinos likewise. There are many people whose lives are massively impacted by politics, even if they never turn on a TV.
  - rosterface 7y ago
    I’m Latino and strongly disagree with this. Many I know support Trump and actually are rather conservative.
    - Pfhreak 7y ago
      Sure. I'm queer and have never personally dealt with violence because of who I am. But my community is definitely stressed by politics. You are saying that politics has no major impact on the broader Latinx community that could cause stress?
    - deleted 7y ago
rrggrr 7y ago
Money. Both sides raise money by stoking emotions - usually fear. This leads to a LOT of exaggeration of conduct, risks, etc. The largest demographic glued to news channels is easily motivated to donate based on emotion and fear - our aging population. By way of example, most phone scams have fear-driven messaging and are targeted at this cohort. Want to reduce your stress AND keep informed? Understand and accept that politics is foremost about money and getting you to open your wallet. Discount messaging on both sides as you would advertising for soap, a new phone or medication. I don't want to minimize the impact of foreign interference here. Many countries seek to manipulate messaging, yes. Nevertheless - its the billions required for elections that drives the ugliness.
bwb 7y ago
I think a lot of these comments are focusing on the media and the role they play but this is ignoring the attacks made directly against vulnerable groups here. Imagine you are Latino and are watching the President at his rallies talk about you in ways that incite violence, if not outright calling for violence. Then a shooter targets people who look just like you. You feel hunted. Now throw in stories about people who are citizens being locked up and forced to prove they are citizens while languishing in jail. Or, imagine you are trans and listen to what the P/VP say about you, you are also feeling hunted and hearing reports of all the attacks against trans people day after day. You feel hunted by your own gov and country. I've got some friends in those groups and I don't think I realized how much stress this was causing them as someone who belongs to a group that is never targetted. I think that is a huge part of the stress and terror here.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  I can confirm. I'm Chinese-American and I have to soothe my mother regularly, because she's worried about being deported (she's a Chinese immigant from China). I have to talk with my LGBTQ friends working in/for the government/government contracts and this reall stresses them out too. I live in one of the states hugely impacted by the SALT cap. So my taxes have gone up, as well. It's a lot of little things.
- pjc50 7y ago
  Yup. The anti-trans campaign has been ramped up in the British press especially. The question of intemperate language is becoming important again - MPs, especially women, are receiving an increasing number of death threats. But the government is continuing to escalate the "surrender" and "betrayal" talk.
- rrggrr 7y ago
  "Attacks, vulnerable, incite, hunted, forced." This is exactly the kind of divisive, exaggerated language that is the problem. Latino's are on the brink of becoming the majority ethnicity in America, enjoy record unemployment, are a key player in family values, and are increasingly represented at the top of the power structure in the US. Conflating the illegal immigration dispute with ethnicity causes the problem. At no time in history have Trans had more rights and acceptance than now. It's not a simple issue to put it mildly and there's going to be a lot of back and forth on how the Trans community integrates before its a non-issue. Celebrate the success to-date and progress to come. Most conservatives don't care what you are. You be you and let us be us. We really want to be left alone to do our own thing.
makerofspoons 7y ago
Imagine how stressed Americans will be when they finally realize how dire the climate and ecological crises are due to our inaction.
zarro 7y ago
"On a political sickbed a people is usually rejuvenated and rediscovers its spirit, after having gradually lost it in seeking and preserving power. Culture owes its peaks to politically weak ages.” Anyone guess who?
lanevorockz 7y ago
I blame the internet media for using easy click baity titles to get clicks. That's where the money is and one of the reasons we are seeing extremism happening on both sides. The internet is allowing long format discussions that are great but the "legacy press" is struggling to adapt to this. They want to provide simplified summaries at a premium and on a time without news they have to make them up.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  While there may be a magnitude difference (I personally suspect not) we have had click-bait's ancestor just from headlines. Hard times seem to be a more reliable prediction of extremism really. In the WW1 eras before, during, and after major nations were having literal radical element armed revolution attempts.
nelblu 7y ago
We dumped the "land of opportunity" precisely because of the political climate. We both were on H1B visas, and our green card is already filed (for both of us), but the whole anxiety drove us nuts and we just moved north of the border where they welcomed us with a red carpet with permanent residency sent at our doorstep! My friends were saying we were crazy, to leave a great job, house and all but I couldn't think of myself being a slave to the whims and fancies of some American politicians. We are so much happier here :). I used to think I want to move south once there is a immigration friendly government but the more I live here the less I want to move back.
- yummypaint 7y ago
  Exactly this. I have seen dozens of highly qualified, kind, intelligent people who wanted to contribute in the US leave in frustration because of asinine immigration rules.
dougmwne 7y ago
This is why I've been practicing "strategic disengagement." Mostly, reading the news is not informative. Modern news is full of talking points pushed by whichever special interests are the best funded. It does not need to represent reality or truth especially well. The most important thing is not to tick off advertisers, owners, and the tribe of people that identify with the outlet. And even if you could be truthfully and accurately informed? In a country of tens or hundreds of millions, these decisions are made by an extremely select few with vast wealth or great influence. I have met a few of these people and I know how the sausage is made. The rest of us are grist for their mills. For most people, paying attention to any of this nothing more than rooting for their favorite sports team.
pjc50 7y ago
I'd love to disengage, but at the same time there's a horrifying addictiveness to the whole thing. It reminds me of the early days of the Iraq war and post 9/11, except with no originating disaster this time. It's not just an online phenonmenon, talks about Brexit happen daily in my office. I even got a "prepare for Brexit" ad on Spotify this morning.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  "Horrifying addictiveness": I think that may be a good choice of words. I think people are becoming addicted to anger and outrage. And even for those who aren't (and I hope you aren't, even if you're in the midst of the Brexit craziness), the constant "and then what happened?" urge is like an addiction. But "then what" hasn't actually happened yet, and so we sit here, frantically hitting refresh, waiting for the next thing to happen. I can do the same with HN. "There must be something new and interesting on there - better check again now." I need to break that, and I think it is worth breaking. (I say as I post this on HN...)
- ben_w 7y ago
  Certain aspects of the ongoing soap opera that is Brexit do feel like a two-minute hate. I’ve never read 1984, but the Wikipedia page rather unfortunately matches my own subjective reactions to some of the stories: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate I know that you have been rather dismissive of the idea that it could lead to civil war, but given the rhetorical choices of various celebrities, public figures, and so on, and given the details of various reports of violent conduct recently, I think it’s going to be as bad as a population-adjusted version of the Troubles regardless of which option is ultimately taken. This is not why I have left the UK, but it does make me glad that I have left the UK. Even though I’m having difficulty disconnecting, it is definitely easier than it would be if I was still on the island.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    > I think it’s going to be as bad as a population-adjusted version of the Troubles regardless of which option is ultimately taken. I'm not seeing it myself; it's not even as bad as the early 2000s days of anti-globalisation riots. There's only going to be violence if the government manage to successfully order it before they get removed, or if they somehow manage to defy the Benn act and achieve No Deal. It turns out there's even a limit to how much Farage can openly incite violence before the police finally agree to take a look: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-news-latest-investigation-knife-pen-pushers-brexit-a9124286.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-... The key is realising how much Brexit is astroturf. And Farage himself provided a nice demonstration by quitting UKIP and transferring all the attention to the Brexit party, thereby proving that it's his personal movement (with the aid of the newspapers) rather than a broader-based one.
panny 7y ago
>It became apparent, especially during the 2016 electoral season, that this was a polarized nation This article is quite biased. What today's liberals are feeling is what conservatives felt for the entire Obama administration. It's not new. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/10/us-elections-republicans-tea-party-conservatives https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/10/us-elections-r...
- olooney 7y ago
  According to the Pew Research Center there is evidence that America has become more more polarized since 2016.[1] This is part of a decades long trend.[2] This polarization is happening on both a rational[3] and emotional[4] level. According to some other researchers, political polarization is at its worst since the civil war.[5] [1]: https://www.people-press.org/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/ https://www.people-press.org/interactives/political-polariza... [2]: https://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/ https://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/political-polarizati... [3]: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/05/republicans-and-democrats-have-grown-further-apart-on-what-the-nations-top-priorities-should-be/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/05/republicans... [4]: https://www.people-press.org/2018/11/05/more-now-say-its-stressful-to-discuss-politics-with-people-they-disagree-with/ https://www.people-press.org/2018/11/05/more-now-say-its-str... [5]: https://news.usc.edu/110124/political-polarization-at-its-worst-since-the-civil-war-2/ https://news.usc.edu/110124/political-polarization-at-its-wo...
  - panny 7y ago
    Yep, same thing. Listen to yourself. You expect me to believe a) there's an objective measurement of a well defined term "political polarization" and it has also been happening for more than 100 years or b) US liberals made up some totally arbitrary subjective standard, applied their bias to it, and came out with "Thanks Donald." You simply can't see it because of personal bias.
    - olooney 7y ago
      A lot to unpack there, so I'll restrict myself to a single remark: your suggestion that the polarization metric used in the last paper was developed post hoc in response to Trump's election doesn't match the publication timeline. The method[1] used in the last paper has been around since the 80's and has been used to study polarization since at least the 00's. It's a popular method used in many papers; you can even get the raw data and code as an R package if you'd like to hack on it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOMINATE_(scaling_method) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOMINATE_(scaling_method) [2]: https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/wnominate/index.html https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/wnominate/index.html
bobloblaw45 7y ago
My observations having lived through Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama, is that it's always the end of the world. You always have people saying they lied or committed some crime or another and each is always so much worse than the last.The current one is always the legit criminal and the past ones are always forgotten. The only difference now is we're willingly engaging in it 24/7. If you can escape it or not is one question but your reaction to it is entirely on you. You can let it consume you or you can choose for it not to.
sleepysysadmin 7y ago
It's not politics that people are getting stressed out about. It's fake news. Let's call it for what it is. https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/media/abc-news-stage-live-shot/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/media/abc-news-stage-live-s... Fake news from ABC being called out by the kings of fake news: CNN. https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/20160918_Why_is_Philly_s_homicide_rate_going_up_.html https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/20160918_Why_is_Philly_... https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/Trump-said-Phillys-murder-rate-is-terribly-increasing-Its-not.html https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/T... One of these articles is fake news. Washington Post also likes their fake news. Clinton questions whether Sanders is qualified to be president https://outline.com/5jBgBU https://outline.com/5jBgBU Sanders’s incorrect claim that Clinton called him ‘not qualified’ for the presidency https://outline.com/urT5KL https://outline.com/urT5KL One of these articles is fake news. It doesn't matter which. The media is attacking and posting fake news about all sides of politics. This is not a new. The media has been feeding us lies forever, what has changed is technology. We are now catching them in their lies. We are holding them to account for their fake news and this has resulted in the media crumbling. Fix the fake news, stop giving fake news agencies like CNN or washington post any attention and your stress will greatly reduce.
eej2ya1K 7y ago
Take all of that effort you're pouring into politics, and spend it all on yourself. Enjoy.
blhack 7y ago
I really hope that soon we can start looking at these media companies in the same way we look at cigarette companies. CNN,NyTimes,FOX,Twitter etc. want you addicted to their product, are EXTREMELY powerful, and are willing to damn your health for it. It’s really sad.
wespiser_2018 7y ago
How did we get here? Is there any evidence that the consolation of old school media into a few companies is contributing to this problem? Over the last fews years we've gone from 50 companies owning 90% of the news companies, to only 6. I recently heard about this consolidation, and I can't help but think this may be contributing to the issue, but I haven't seen any evidence either way! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_cross-ownership_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_cross-ownership_in_the_U...
jhpriestley 7y ago
I think that the term "politics" makes it very abstract what we're talking about. If you substitute in some salient issue, like "jailing children", then it kind of changes the tone. It's just politics -> It's just jailing children People are ending friendships over politics -> People are ending friendships over jailing children "Team Red" and "Team Blue" -> Team jail children, Team do not jail children
- gojomo 7y ago
  Your desire to replace the meta-discussion of "politics" with reduction to a highly-emotional framing of a pet issue ("jailing children") is an excellent example of why the politicize-everything mindset is so corrosive.
  - patientplatypus 7y ago
    Disagree. You can do it with healthcare too. Team "spent 4 years attempting to repeal the Affordable Care Act and replacing it with nothing" vs Team "Universal Medical Care for Everyone" Or tax cuts - Team "Gave trillions away via a big corporate tax cut" vs Team "Proposal to fund higher education via Wealth Tax" Or environmentalism - Team "denying there's a problem while the permafrost melts" vs Team "Wants to do something before society literally falls around us" Or Treason - Team "Has president in White House that literally asked Ukraine for dirt on his political opponent" vs Team "Holy Fucking Shit!" It seems super frustrating dealing with articles that say that "politics" is stressing me out when really it's that the right has literally driven the country into the ground. What in god's name are they doing? We have a president that is literally laughing about killing immigrants days before a national shooting in Texas, who commits high crimes via Twitter, and worse! What Republican is speaking out against him? And they own the senate, so we've had 4 years of deadlock. And that's just the United States! In the UK you have crazy Boris Johnson literally doing everything he possibly can to crash the country out of the European Union because no one was willing to work with Theresa May. God knows why as the effects for the economy (and Ireland for God's sakes - they have a border between Northern Ireland and Ireland that would have to go back up - and it could cause the Troubles again!) would be horrific. Probably because he has money on it somehow. And he attempted to essentially dissolve parliament that then unprecedentedly got thrown out by their Supreme Court and the entire thing is just a shit show. And then there's Modi, and Bolsonaro is burning down the rain forest. The thing is the entire planet looks like it's having an attack of conscience and we could be looking at a breakdown of the global order. Things have been ok bordering on decent in most parts of the world for the last 50 years, as compared to the last 500 that preceded them. But we paid for the prosperity by consuming more than we should, and, as "stuff" starts to run out perhaps people are just no longer interested in sharing with others or playing nice. That's a really scary thought.
Merrill 7y ago
The effect of the 24x7 news flow is to cause "learned helplessness" in the masses. >"Learned helplessness occurs when an animal is repeatedly subjected to an aversive stimulus that it cannot escape. Eventually, the animal will stop trying to avoid the stimulus and behave as if it is utterly helpless to change the situation. Even when opportunities to escape are presented, this learned helplessness will prevent any action." https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-learned-helplessness-2795326 https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-learned-helplessness-27...
oarabbus_ 7y ago
People are losing sleep over political issues? Unless your livelihood is directly tied to the issue, that's bizarre to me.
- tboyd47 7y ago
  It's not bizarre if it's affecting their relationships.

123 points by elorant 7y ago

At some point people need to wake up and realize they actually have very little control over what the government is doing. How long have we been talking about fixing healthcare? 20 years now? Nothing changes. And Obamacare was not a fix, just a way to shut up the population. How long have we been demanding an end to endless wars? How long have we been demanding actual action on climate change? What happened when crimes of the government are exposed by Assange and Snowden? We punish the whistleblowers! What was the end result of the Panama papers? Nothing. What about the elite being engaged in pedophilia on a massive scale? What’s that, Epstein committed suicide and the prison staff won’t cooperate in an investigation? Carry on fine citizen, nothing to see here. None of these things will change because the elite are enjoying the status quo. Now proceed fighting amongst yourselves over <insert social wedge issue here>.

davidw 7y ago
To accomplish those things, you'd need to elect people who want to do that. Good luck with how the Senate is elected, and the electoral college. It's not "the elites", it's who people are voting for.
zaroth 7y ago
Watching you edit this, this went from a rant I thought it might be worth responding to, to flame bait. I hate the defeatist attitude and rewriting history as if there hasn’t actually been incredible progress on so, so many fronts. There are interesting and important discussions to be had here, but not from this starting point.
- freejulian85 7y ago
  Perhaps you can start by naming some progress that has been made? I see very little.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    Poverty is at an all-time low worldwide: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-rate-drops-to-record-low.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-ra... Crime is at an all-time low: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-crime-may-be-near-an-all-time-low https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-... There are fewer hungry people today than before: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/411265021/there-are-200-million-fewer-hungry-people-than-25-years-ago https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/4112650.... In terms of warfare, the world is the most peaceful it's ever been (full-scale, high death count wars used to be fought every decade or so between major powers): https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-people-than-ever-before/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-... While true that, cumulatively speaking, the United States has pumped out the most greenhouse gas of any conutry, it is improving faster than other countries. In the past decade, the United States has cut 11% of it's GHG emissions: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/18512804/climate-change-united-states-china-emissions https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/1851280... https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-during-trumps-first-year-office https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-gree...
    - smcg 7y ago
      Just because things are better now does not mean that they are good. Ask the poor, hungry, and war-torn if they think things are fine, there are millions of them. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-good https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-...
      - tathougies 7y ago
        You are changing the goalposts. Please stop. The comment did not ask me to cite statistics claiming that the world is perfect. It merely asked for citations to statistics indicating the world is making progress I responded by offering solid data naming several metrics indicating that many outcomes that people find desirable (less poverty, less hunger, etc) are indeed closer to being achieved today than before. By definition, if something is getting better, it was not perfect (which is what you are asking for), so nowhere in my claim did I say or imply anything about the world being 'good'. On a separate note: We shouldn't use ill-defined terms like 'good'. There's no objective definition of what a 'good' world would look like. For example, many philosophers have argued the world is indeed good, despite the existence of all kinds of pestulences, plagues, and natural disasters. The key in understanding them would be understanding in what sense they use the word 'good'.
aalleavitch 7y ago
The realization by the masses that they have no control over their own lives is the progenitor of revolution. Do the beneficiaries of the status quo understand the resentment they are building? History has shown they seldom do until it is too late.
rrggrr 7y ago
No, no, no, no. Most decisions that impact your life in the US start at the city level. You CAN get involved and make a difference. It all starts there. Don't check out.
- freejulian85 7y ago
  Are you kidding me?! Here in Chicago we have enormous financial problems and every year that goes by brings us further away from even attempting to fix those problems. The streets are falling apart, crimes go unsolved, pollution goes unpunished. The candidates for mayor are always first chosen by the elite, then put on stage for the public to select. It’s a joke. If anything, it’s even easier for the powerful elite to control local governments. Look at all the polluted water flowing through lead pipes across the country — what’s happening about that again? Excuse me, time to print some money and give it to the banks in another nightly “repo operation”.
  - notfromhere 7y ago
    You probably don't remember Chicago in the 90s if you think things are getting worse.
    - freejulian85 7y ago
      The improvement in Chicago is due to people fleeing government subsidized suburbia.
      - bilbo0s 7y ago
        Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think this is a good illustration of the news dynamic. Everyone has their own opinion. Everyone lives in a world where "everyone I know agrees with me on this!" Everyone is stressed because maybe some others disagree. And then we all fall into a pattern of engaging in almost meaningless arguments about these issues with each other. Causing even more stress. I think what the above exchange demonstrates is that unfortunately, "politics", or whatever you want to call it, really is stressful and contentious to the point of being dangerous to society even at the local level. It's amazing how big this problem is.
eyo2019 7y ago
In America, we all bitch about politics, give up, and wonder why things suck. Meanwhile people are protesting quite vigorously, in HK, Paris, all over the Middle East a few years ago, etc. If we want the change we're looking for, we need to get in the streets and disrupt daily life for everyone until we collectively get what we are demanding.
- grenoire 7y ago
  America is just way bigger than any of those countries/cities; and we also know that, historically, American protestors have had significant difficulties organising themselves in a manner that is representative of the interests of the people who they have managed to rally.
bigYahnz 7y ago
Start doling out punishments worthy for such offenses and they will stop? End lineages. Publicly. The behavior will cease.

tristanperry 7y ago

It's unfortunately very similar here in the UK: whilst most people are 'getting on with it', there's an increasing amount of division and stress due to the whole Brexit debacle.

XJ6 7y ago
Brexit related stress is very real, especially for residents who are EU citizens who may be very long time residents but haven't ever thought of the need to get official residency. "Settled status" is of little comfort when they look and see a PM willing to act unlawfully.
- upstandingdude 7y ago
  Dunno the brits that live in Germany can just get a unlimited residency permit without any fuss.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    Unconditionally? This is absolutely not the case for the UK "settled status" fiasco.
- growlist 7y ago
  > Brexit related stress is very real and also for those that feel that voting has been proven to be pointless, and democracy a sham.
ThrowItAway2Day 7y ago
As there should be, the outcome of the Brexit negotiations will effect every day of your life as a UK citizen.
x86_64Ubuntu 7y ago
Um, Brexit is a big deal. It's so big that there is talk that we might see a united Ireland in our time, that's how big it is.

tamaharbor 7y ago

Trump is mentioned on every hourly newscast, every day. Before him, if you didn’t pay much attention, you would never even know who the President was.

davidw 7y ago

No kidding. This current situation goes beyond simple policy disagreements, but goes right to the heart of whether the US president is above the law or not. As a consequence, are there any checks on his interference in our elections? How's democracy going to work out if there aren't? I'd like my kids to grow up in a democracy, and this deterioration is really f'ing stressful. (If you're one of those "but it's a Republic, not a Democracy!" people - save it)

Cuuugi 7y ago
I feel like you didn't "read" the study, but were studied...
zaroth 7y ago
Unfortunately HN isn’t the place to be able to ask the basic question of how we can spend 3 years working with foreign governments to investigate Trump for something which was never found to be true, but Hunter Biden actually does walk away with millions of dollars from Ukraine and flies out of China on Air Force Two with billions from Bank of China, and asking them to investigate why Joe (by his own admission) extorted them into firing the prosecutor — that is literally treason?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- pjc50 7y ago
  Maybe both of these things are bad if true? It's just that hyper-partisanship and making the senior levels of the justice system into political appointments have made it impossible to hold the powerful to account.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    Well I think it’s definitely questionable to go on a fishing expedition without any evidence. But I don’t think it can be bad to ask someone to investigate if a known extortionate action was undertaken for a corrupt cause when we have direct evidence that there was a large personal financial benefit received.

XJ6 7y ago

> 22.1% admit they care too much about who wins and who loses Recommendation: Stop framing it as "winning" and "losing".

macintux 7y ago
I’d just be grateful if pundits and especially politicians would start referring to “opponents” instead of “enemies”.
- rb808 7y ago
  I looked up synonyms for opponents and my favorite is "fellow contestant"
mfer 7y ago
Unfortunately, getting people onto sides is part of candidates plans and execution. People are being lead into this mentality on purpose.
batty_alex 7y ago
Looked at from a different angle, the folks that get put into office get to decide who "wins" and who "loses" among the citizenry. That'd be enough to give me some anxiety. What if the person that gets into office has enough political power to bring back the Pre-existing condition nonsense? That would certainly decide that my wife and I deserve to "lose" for being born with certain chronic conditions. For us, it would hurt, for some people they may just completely "lose" their livelihood. Just a thought. EDIT: Wanted to make sure I mentioned that I agree with your initial premise.

nickjj 7y ago

> Politics are impossible to escape That's a bold claim to put in the title but I believe it's generally true unless you're in a position to not have to directly deal with paying taxes (homeless or so rich that someone else deals with it for you). I would consider myself to be extremely unpolitical. Honestly speaking I don't even know who my state's mayor is, I never voted and I don't listen to the news. I simply don't care about any of that stuff because I know as an individual it's close to impossible to change anything due to how politics work in the first place (it follows money not popularity). However, when it comes to paying taxes or health insurance penalties you can't avoid thinking about or dealing with it and it's stressful even in those short doses of having to deal with taxes a few times a year (quarterly taxes).

admax88q 7y ago
Paying taxes is not politics. Being stressed about that is just the same as being stressed about any other personal administration task.
- nickjj 7y ago
  > Paying taxes is not politics. Being stressed about that is just the same as being stressed about any other personal administration task. I think it's very much related because as soon as you talk or think about taxes you immediately correlate it to forcefully giving the government a large amount of your hard earned money. And now it becomes political because you might not see directs benefits of that, so now you wonder why you pay so many hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxes over your life, but there's potholes in your neighborhood for years that could break a car's axle and thieves are breaking into houses with police who don't care enough to solve the mystery, all while you continue to pay some of the highest state tax in the US (percent wise). And it snow balls from there. You begin to wonder why so much has to be spent on things you don't necessarily agree with and before you know it, you're ruminating on this stuff to the point where your heart is racing and you want to move to a private ungoverned island. Thinking about stuff like that is super disappointing / demoralizing to me, so I try my best to avoid it as much as possible. I know avoiding bad things is usually terrible advice but this is one case where I'm more than happy to not play the game or only play the absolute bare minimum to enjoy my life the best I can.

ForzaBlu 7y ago

What is the solution?

asokoloski 7y ago
I posted a link elsewhere in the comments -- check out the Better Angels organization. I think they're really on to something. They teach people how to talk about politics in a way that leads to a respectful conversation and consideration of each others views rather than a screaming match.

duxup 7y ago

Just turn on most TV news networks. It's the Apocalypse about everything all the time. Everything is tied together. You've got "experts" willing to make dramatic statements about anything at all. It's always "those people" causing something. Nobody sets any context. No real information is presented. It's just paranoia and panic made to hook people into watching more. I always have this fantasy where I start my own TV news network and it's "just news". If the topic is complex like something about the separation of powers, we do a little intro to that, then the news. I'm not sure it would be popular, but at the same time, i'm not convinced it wouldn't be considering the competition.

platz 7y ago
There is a lot of bad faith argument, which is exhausting. It would be nicer to see more of the principle of charity; but at a certain level of feeling aggrieved I'm not sure it's a reasonable expectation.
batty_alex 7y ago
> It's the Apocalypse about everything all the time. I just catch-up on the news once a week to avoid thinking about it too much. Yeah, there's madness, but a lot of it is beyond my reach. So, it's not really helpful for me to hear about what's going on more than once a week. > I always have this fantasy where I start my own TV news network and it's "just news". PBS News Hour tends to do this pretty well. The experts they bring on usually do a good job of just discussing facts and describing common stances on all sides. Part of your complaint has to do with the deregulation of the news industry, historically. In 1987, the FCC fairness doctrine was eliminated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine It's no mistake that it gave rise to a massive number of pundits under the guise of proper news outlets.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > I just catch-up on the news once a week to avoid thinking about it too much. For most people, you can probably stretch that. Catch up once a month, then catch up once every three months, then six, or twelve. Most people I've spoken too feel much better when they just quit "news".

dood2002 7y ago

this is exactly the kind of shit i come to hn to avoid

WilliamEdward 7y ago
HN is a board for things that are interesting. It is not against politics. Sometimes politics is interesting.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
On the front page, each article is really small. You can just skip past them. Clicking on it and leaving a comment is not how you ignore it.
- jpindar 7y ago
  Better than that, each article on the front page has a "hide" button so you can remove (from your view) any that bother you.

ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago

I've pretty much stopped taking in "the news", TV, internet even my home page is just a relaxing picture. Honestly, I feel way better and have realized how little "news" I need to know. Even on HN, I avoid political posts. Any news that I actually need to know comes to me via friends and family.

MaupitiBlue 7y ago

Bob Woodward was right. Much of the left is simply “unhinged” over Trump. Some of the antiObama stuff was bad, but the last few years have been pretty incredible.

dawg- 7y ago
Thus far in my life I have always voted Democrat, and have not been a big fan of Trump at all. But the word "unhinged" is a perfect descriptor. The cycle of outrage and self-righteousness is counterproductive. Even worse is that we now have people defending outrage, saying that "civil discourse" has been used as a bludgeon in the past to silence minorities and other oppressed groups. I get it, it has the ring of logic to it. But what's happening on Twitter nowadays is not the same thing as the sit-in lunches or freedom riders in the 60s. Not at all.

mfer 7y ago

Personally, since I started limiting social media to maybe a couple times a week, stopped watching the news shows, and trying to read long form investigative pieces of news I've become both much happier and more well informed. It's also easier to avoid unwittingly becoming part of mobs.

ddtaylor 7y ago
Where can I find long-form investigative pieces?
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  PBS Frontline is a series of long-form investigative pieces.

ravenstine 7y ago

One thing that I see making the situation worse is the lack of common cause and identity. There was always party division, but the other side was still seen as your fellow Americans. Today, not only is there an opposing side, they are seen as an enemy that must be totally annihilated. If we continue down this road it's going to be disastrous because it's going to leave no room for dissent inside or outside politics. I'm not saying that Americans never disagreed, war'd with each other, etc. That's not the point. The point is that we're losing that belief in an American ideal that helps keep us together while we debate our issues. The more divided we are, the more we'll be ripe for the picking by those who never cared about America in the first place. It's not just TV and social media, but a belief that America should be a hodge podge of cultures united by nothing but an empty consumerist culture. It's pretty hard for things like forgiveness, giving the benefit of the doubt, and seeing each other as human beings to actually work in such a place when there are political interests that benefit by having those principles eliminated. A hostile, low trust society clicks more ragebait and gobbles more food to combat depression.

blackflame7000 7y ago
Everyone needs to stop being so hypocritical. If we all started practicing what we preach more often it would go a long way. We need more objectivity and the ability to consider ideas that run contrary to our beliefs without feeling insecure.
delecti 7y ago
How much camaraderie should someone really be expected to show for an opposing party that actively opposes their human rights and remove regulations protecting the environment? A hostile low-trust society might be justified for the time being, and likely was previously too.
- ravenstine 7y ago
  It can be justified, just as nearly anything can be justified under the right conditions. Whether present conditions, contrasting our current state with the state of the past, warrants such political lengths to divide people is questionable. Considering that they, like you, think they're right, you can at least grant other human beings the same dignity you wish to receive. Obviously, everything is subject to the situation but, from a big picture perspective, viewing yourself and others as fallible, as opposed to a Hollywood-esque fight between Good and Evil, is a greater exercise in humility. Like pulling the trigger on a gun, hostility and rejection should be a weapon reserved until there isn't an alternative. If you think there's no hope for a common understanding with Republicans(I think it's safe to assume that's whom you are referring to), then I guess all I have to say is that's kind of sad because I'm sure that you have family and friends who vote Republican(whether they tell you or not); why associate with them at all if you think a low-trust society is warranted? Think of it this way. A Republican might say: "How much comaraderie should one really be expected to show for an opposing party that actively opposes America as an individual nation, wants to impart an economic structure that's been disastrous in other parts of the world, embraces censorship, participated in proxy wars and knowingly murdered civilians with drones, uses minorities as political tools, hates white people, expanded the surveillance apparatus, and wants to take our guns away?" I know some imbecile is probably going to take that hypothetical quote as being my own position and attempt to argue every one of those points. Save your breath, whomever you are, because that's not at all what I'm claiming to believe. Whether they are actually right or wrong, they are Americans who, like you, care about the destiny of the country. That's where your camaraderie begins. If it ends there too, then too bad, but not having that common understanding is dangerous and useful to anyone who wants to control the masses.

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WilliamEdward 7y ago

Having exposed myself to a small circle of people on the internet with particular viewpoints, i've noticed politics is all i can think about lately. I can only imagine what it must be like to follow social media and have reactionary news articles thrown at you daily, something i've managed to avoid. It only makes sense that you chip off bits of your sanity every time you box yourself in with certain crowds and information feeds. Don't trap yourself in a bubble, people.

fbisevil 7y ago
Yes, getting off social media is great for mental health

ddtaylor 7y ago

I stopped paying any attention to politics years ago and I'm a person who coordinated and planned 2 campaigns in my local state. It saddens me that a large amount of people are stressed and consumed by a process that they have very very little impact on. Unless you live in a select few states, your state probably gets 2 electoral votes for your senators and a few more based on your district size. If you live in Montana, Alaska, North or South Dakota then you're getting the minimum of 3 electoral votes. It's really more about outrage culture at this point I think. I actually wonder how much harm is done by the election process in how it makes people think problems are being debated or solved when no legitimate debate is taking place and no real solutions are being implemented. Also, it doesn't matter which political party you are on. If you're a "left" leaning person who wants socialized healthcare, we never really got that. We got something that had some of the same words and ideas, but in the end nobody could actually go to a doctor without wealth being a large factor. If you're a "right" leaning person you probably want a smaller government that spends less and we never get that. For every reduction in law hundreds are added. One step forward, 99 steps backwards.

jrumbut 7y ago
It's actually the people in the small states whose votes are disproportionally powerful, since Wyoming voters elect the same number of senators as California voters and everyone's house district is within an order of magnitude size wise. New Hampshire gets ridiculously outsized attention in election years, as a small state, early primary state, and a swing state. Truly the trifecta and probably the state where an individual's vote matters the most. As for the last couple paragraphs, as someone who possesses an ideology I am disappointed I don't always get my way, and live in my utopia. But as someone who is aware others possess contrasting ideologies, I am glad I don't live in their dystopias. We have a system that encourages compromises, including very ugly and unjust compromises, as a way to avoid one side winning entirely and establishing a totalitarian (or anarchist) state. People seem to appreciate this less than they once did, but haven't done anything really to change it yet.
- jrs235 7y ago
  People forget the U.S is a democratic constitutional republic. The federal government is not the humans government. It's the governing body for the States. Hence the reason for the electoral college and the way States are represented. Each state [government] has an equal voice in the Senate (and were represented by the Senators prior to the 17th Amendment). The house had a proportionate representation because it is ultimately the humans who have to pay for the running of the federal government. The president it the head of the day to day operations of the government. They are supposed to faithfully see that the laws passed by Congress are executed properly.

asokoloski 7y ago

I've just recently discovered it, but I'm a big fan of the work that Better Angels are doing to reduce political polarization in our society and help us communicate peacefully: https://www.better-angels.org/our-story/ https://www.better-angels.org/our-story/ I think it has a lot of potential to help with this problem.

malvosenior 7y ago

I’m be been alive for six presidents and the only thing that has had a direct and substantial impact on my life was Obamacare (it cost me a lot of money). I was glad when Trump got elected as I thought in might cause real change. Not because he’s competent but because he’s an outsider and prone to doing things the establishment would never do. He’s delivered a mixed bag on this theory but I think a lot of legacy corruption has been exposed (as well as his new corruption). It all stinks, but if you don’t follow the mainstream outrage machine you can live a happy life that doesn’t feel like near apocalypse every day.

MaupitiBlue 7y ago
I beat you with a little Ford, but couldn’t agree more. Everyone needs to turn off Facebook and take a deep breath. The sun will come out tomorrow.
Pfhreak 7y ago
> It all stinks, but if you don’t follow the mainstream outrage machine you can live a happy life that doesn’t feel like near apocalypse every day. Unfortunately this isn't the case for your peers. Queer folks, for instance, are suffering violence and a steady attack by their government. Latinos likewise. There are many people whose lives are massively impacted by politics, even if they never turn on a TV.
- rosterface 7y ago
  I’m Latino and strongly disagree with this. Many I know support Trump and actually are rather conservative.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    Sure. I'm queer and have never personally dealt with violence because of who I am. But my community is definitely stressed by politics. You are saying that politics has no major impact on the broader Latinx community that could cause stress?
  - deleted 7y ago

rrggrr 7y ago

Money. Both sides raise money by stoking emotions - usually fear. This leads to a LOT of exaggeration of conduct, risks, etc. The largest demographic glued to news channels is easily motivated to donate based on emotion and fear - our aging population. By way of example, most phone scams have fear-driven messaging and are targeted at this cohort. Want to reduce your stress AND keep informed? Understand and accept that politics is foremost about money and getting you to open your wallet. Discount messaging on both sides as you would advertising for soap, a new phone or medication. I don't want to minimize the impact of foreign interference here. Many countries seek to manipulate messaging, yes. Nevertheless - its the billions required for elections that drives the ugliness.

bwb 7y ago

I think a lot of these comments are focusing on the media and the role they play but this is ignoring the attacks made directly against vulnerable groups here. Imagine you are Latino and are watching the President at his rallies talk about you in ways that incite violence, if not outright calling for violence. Then a shooter targets people who look just like you. You feel hunted. Now throw in stories about people who are citizens being locked up and forced to prove they are citizens while languishing in jail. Or, imagine you are trans and listen to what the P/VP say about you, you are also feeling hunted and hearing reports of all the attacks against trans people day after day. You feel hunted by your own gov and country. I've got some friends in those groups and I don't think I realized how much stress this was causing them as someone who belongs to a group that is never targetted. I think that is a huge part of the stress and terror here.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
I can confirm. I'm Chinese-American and I have to soothe my mother regularly, because she's worried about being deported (she's a Chinese immigant from China). I have to talk with my LGBTQ friends working in/for the government/government contracts and this reall stresses them out too. I live in one of the states hugely impacted by the SALT cap. So my taxes have gone up, as well. It's a lot of little things.
pjc50 7y ago
Yup. The anti-trans campaign has been ramped up in the British press especially. The question of intemperate language is becoming important again - MPs, especially women, are receiving an increasing number of death threats. But the government is continuing to escalate the "surrender" and "betrayal" talk.
rrggrr 7y ago
"Attacks, vulnerable, incite, hunted, forced." This is exactly the kind of divisive, exaggerated language that is the problem. Latino's are on the brink of becoming the majority ethnicity in America, enjoy record unemployment, are a key player in family values, and are increasingly represented at the top of the power structure in the US. Conflating the illegal immigration dispute with ethnicity causes the problem. At no time in history have Trans had more rights and acceptance than now. It's not a simple issue to put it mildly and there's going to be a lot of back and forth on how the Trans community integrates before its a non-issue. Celebrate the success to-date and progress to come. Most conservatives don't care what you are. You be you and let us be us. We really want to be left alone to do our own thing.

makerofspoons 7y ago

Imagine how stressed Americans will be when they finally realize how dire the climate and ecological crises are due to our inaction.

zarro 7y ago

"On a political sickbed a people is usually rejuvenated and rediscovers its spirit, after having gradually lost it in seeking and preserving power. Culture owes its peaks to politically weak ages.” Anyone guess who?

lanevorockz 7y ago

I blame the internet media for using easy click baity titles to get clicks. That's where the money is and one of the reasons we are seeing extremism happening on both sides. The internet is allowing long format discussions that are great but the "legacy press" is struggling to adapt to this. They want to provide simplified summaries at a premium and on a time without news they have to make them up.

Nasrudith 7y ago
While there may be a magnitude difference (I personally suspect not) we have had click-bait's ancestor just from headlines. Hard times seem to be a more reliable prediction of extremism really. In the WW1 eras before, during, and after major nations were having literal radical element armed revolution attempts.

nelblu 7y ago

We dumped the "land of opportunity" precisely because of the political climate. We both were on H1B visas, and our green card is already filed (for both of us), but the whole anxiety drove us nuts and we just moved north of the border where they welcomed us with a red carpet with permanent residency sent at our doorstep! My friends were saying we were crazy, to leave a great job, house and all but I couldn't think of myself being a slave to the whims and fancies of some American politicians. We are so much happier here :). I used to think I want to move south once there is a immigration friendly government but the more I live here the less I want to move back.

yummypaint 7y ago
Exactly this. I have seen dozens of highly qualified, kind, intelligent people who wanted to contribute in the US leave in frustration because of asinine immigration rules.

dougmwne 7y ago

This is why I've been practicing "strategic disengagement." Mostly, reading the news is not informative. Modern news is full of talking points pushed by whichever special interests are the best funded. It does not need to represent reality or truth especially well. The most important thing is not to tick off advertisers, owners, and the tribe of people that identify with the outlet. And even if you could be truthfully and accurately informed? In a country of tens or hundreds of millions, these decisions are made by an extremely select few with vast wealth or great influence. I have met a few of these people and I know how the sausage is made. The rest of us are grist for their mills. For most people, paying attention to any of this nothing more than rooting for their favorite sports team.

pjc50 7y ago

I'd love to disengage, but at the same time there's a horrifying addictiveness to the whole thing. It reminds me of the early days of the Iraq war and post 9/11, except with no originating disaster this time. It's not just an online phenonmenon, talks about Brexit happen daily in my office. I even got a "prepare for Brexit" ad on Spotify this morning.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
"Horrifying addictiveness": I think that may be a good choice of words. I think people are becoming addicted to anger and outrage. And even for those who aren't (and I hope you aren't, even if you're in the midst of the Brexit craziness), the constant "and then what happened?" urge is like an addiction. But "then what" hasn't actually happened yet, and so we sit here, frantically hitting refresh, waiting for the next thing to happen. I can do the same with HN. "There must be something new and interesting on there - better check again now." I need to break that, and I think it is worth breaking. (I say as I post this on HN...)
ben_w 7y ago
Certain aspects of the ongoing soap opera that is Brexit do feel like a two-minute hate. I’ve never read 1984, but the Wikipedia page rather unfortunately matches my own subjective reactions to some of the stories: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate I know that you have been rather dismissive of the idea that it could lead to civil war, but given the rhetorical choices of various celebrities, public figures, and so on, and given the details of various reports of violent conduct recently, I think it’s going to be as bad as a population-adjusted version of the Troubles regardless of which option is ultimately taken. This is not why I have left the UK, but it does make me glad that I have left the UK. Even though I’m having difficulty disconnecting, it is definitely easier than it would be if I was still on the island.
- pjc50 7y ago
  > I think it’s going to be as bad as a population-adjusted version of the Troubles regardless of which option is ultimately taken. I'm not seeing it myself; it's not even as bad as the early 2000s days of anti-globalisation riots. There's only going to be violence if the government manage to successfully order it before they get removed, or if they somehow manage to defy the Benn act and achieve No Deal. It turns out there's even a limit to how much Farage can openly incite violence before the police finally agree to take a look: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-news-latest-investigation-knife-pen-pushers-brexit-a9124286.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-... The key is realising how much Brexit is astroturf. And Farage himself provided a nice demonstration by quitting UKIP and transferring all the attention to the Brexit party, thereby proving that it's his personal movement (with the aid of the newspapers) rather than a broader-based one.

panny 7y ago

>It became apparent, especially during the 2016 electoral season, that this was a polarized nation This article is quite biased. What today's liberals are feeling is what conservatives felt for the entire Obama administration. It's not new. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/10/us-elections-republicans-tea-party-conservatives https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/10/us-elections-r...

olooney 7y ago
According to the Pew Research Center there is evidence that America has become more more polarized since 2016.[1] This is part of a decades long trend.[2] This polarization is happening on both a rational[3] and emotional[4] level. According to some other researchers, political polarization is at its worst since the civil war.[5] [1]: https://www.people-press.org/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/ https://www.people-press.org/interactives/political-polariza... [2]: https://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/ https://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/political-polarizati... [3]: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/05/republicans-and-democrats-have-grown-further-apart-on-what-the-nations-top-priorities-should-be/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/05/republicans... [4]: https://www.people-press.org/2018/11/05/more-now-say-its-stressful-to-discuss-politics-with-people-they-disagree-with/ https://www.people-press.org/2018/11/05/more-now-say-its-str... [5]: https://news.usc.edu/110124/political-polarization-at-its-worst-since-the-civil-war-2/ https://news.usc.edu/110124/political-polarization-at-its-wo...
- panny 7y ago
  Yep, same thing. Listen to yourself. You expect me to believe a) there's an objective measurement of a well defined term "political polarization" and it has also been happening for more than 100 years or b) US liberals made up some totally arbitrary subjective standard, applied their bias to it, and came out with "Thanks Donald." You simply can't see it because of personal bias.
  - olooney 7y ago
    A lot to unpack there, so I'll restrict myself to a single remark: your suggestion that the polarization metric used in the last paper was developed post hoc in response to Trump's election doesn't match the publication timeline. The method[1] used in the last paper has been around since the 80's and has been used to study polarization since at least the 00's. It's a popular method used in many papers; you can even get the raw data and code as an R package if you'd like to hack on it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOMINATE_(scaling_method) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOMINATE_(scaling_method) [2]: https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/wnominate/index.html https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/wnominate/index.html

bobloblaw45 7y ago

My observations having lived through Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama, is that it's always the end of the world. You always have people saying they lied or committed some crime or another and each is always so much worse than the last.The current one is always the legit criminal and the past ones are always forgotten. The only difference now is we're willingly engaging in it 24/7. If you can escape it or not is one question but your reaction to it is entirely on you. You can let it consume you or you can choose for it not to.

sleepysysadmin 7y ago

It's not politics that people are getting stressed out about. It's fake news. Let's call it for what it is. https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/media/abc-news-stage-live-shot/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/media/abc-news-stage-live-s... Fake news from ABC being called out by the kings of fake news: CNN. https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/20160918_Why_is_Philly_s_homicide_rate_going_up_.html https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/20160918_Why_is_Philly_... https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/Trump-said-Phillys-murder-rate-is-terribly-increasing-Its-not.html https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/T... One of these articles is fake news. Washington Post also likes their fake news. Clinton questions whether Sanders is qualified to be president https://outline.com/5jBgBU https://outline.com/5jBgBU Sanders’s incorrect claim that Clinton called him ‘not qualified’ for the presidency https://outline.com/urT5KL https://outline.com/urT5KL One of these articles is fake news. It doesn't matter which. The media is attacking and posting fake news about all sides of politics. This is not a new. The media has been feeding us lies forever, what has changed is technology. We are now catching them in their lies. We are holding them to account for their fake news and this has resulted in the media crumbling. Fix the fake news, stop giving fake news agencies like CNN or washington post any attention and your stress will greatly reduce.

eej2ya1K 7y ago

Take all of that effort you're pouring into politics, and spend it all on yourself. Enjoy.

blhack 7y ago

I really hope that soon we can start looking at these media companies in the same way we look at cigarette companies. CNN,NyTimes,FOX,Twitter etc. want you addicted to their product, are EXTREMELY powerful, and are willing to damn your health for it. It’s really sad.

wespiser_2018 7y ago

How did we get here? Is there any evidence that the consolation of old school media into a few companies is contributing to this problem? Over the last fews years we've gone from 50 companies owning 90% of the news companies, to only 6. I recently heard about this consolidation, and I can't help but think this may be contributing to the issue, but I haven't seen any evidence either way! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_cross-ownership_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_cross-ownership_in_the_U...

jhpriestley 7y ago

I think that the term "politics" makes it very abstract what we're talking about. If you substitute in some salient issue, like "jailing children", then it kind of changes the tone. It's just politics -> It's just jailing children People are ending friendships over politics -> People are ending friendships over jailing children "Team Red" and "Team Blue" -> Team jail children, Team do not jail children

gojomo 7y ago
Your desire to replace the meta-discussion of "politics" with reduction to a highly-emotional framing of a pet issue ("jailing children") is an excellent example of why the politicize-everything mindset is so corrosive.
- patientplatypus 7y ago
  Disagree. You can do it with healthcare too. Team "spent 4 years attempting to repeal the Affordable Care Act and replacing it with nothing" vs Team "Universal Medical Care for Everyone" Or tax cuts - Team "Gave trillions away via a big corporate tax cut" vs Team "Proposal to fund higher education via Wealth Tax" Or environmentalism - Team "denying there's a problem while the permafrost melts" vs Team "Wants to do something before society literally falls around us" Or Treason - Team "Has president in White House that literally asked Ukraine for dirt on his political opponent" vs Team "Holy Fucking Shit!" It seems super frustrating dealing with articles that say that "politics" is stressing me out when really it's that the right has literally driven the country into the ground. What in god's name are they doing? We have a president that is literally laughing about killing immigrants days before a national shooting in Texas, who commits high crimes via Twitter, and worse! What Republican is speaking out against him? And they own the senate, so we've had 4 years of deadlock. And that's just the United States! In the UK you have crazy Boris Johnson literally doing everything he possibly can to crash the country out of the European Union because no one was willing to work with Theresa May. God knows why as the effects for the economy (and Ireland for God's sakes - they have a border between Northern Ireland and Ireland that would have to go back up - and it could cause the Troubles again!) would be horrific. Probably because he has money on it somehow. And he attempted to essentially dissolve parliament that then unprecedentedly got thrown out by their Supreme Court and the entire thing is just a shit show. And then there's Modi, and Bolsonaro is burning down the rain forest. The thing is the entire planet looks like it's having an attack of conscience and we could be looking at a breakdown of the global order. Things have been ok bordering on decent in most parts of the world for the last 50 years, as compared to the last 500 that preceded them. But we paid for the prosperity by consuming more than we should, and, as "stuff" starts to run out perhaps people are just no longer interested in sharing with others or playing nice. That's a really scary thought.

Merrill 7y ago

The effect of the 24x7 news flow is to cause "learned helplessness" in the masses. >"Learned helplessness occurs when an animal is repeatedly subjected to an aversive stimulus that it cannot escape. Eventually, the animal will stop trying to avoid the stimulus and behave as if it is utterly helpless to change the situation. Even when opportunities to escape are presented, this learned helplessness will prevent any action." https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-learned-helplessness-2795326 https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-learned-helplessness-27...

oarabbus_ 7y ago

People are losing sleep over political issues? Unless your livelihood is directly tied to the issue, that's bizarre to me.

tboyd47 7y ago
It's not bizarre if it's affecting their relationships.