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Des Moines Register grapples with how to handle reporter’s past tweets
- bsenftner 7y agoHow'd he find "decades old tweets" when Twitter is only 13 years old?
- THansenite 7y agoAs someone currently living in Des Moines, this is all the city can talk about right now. Facebook is on fire with people going after the Register, pitchforks in hand. It is kind of ridiculous they'd dig up 8ish year old posts this guy made in a story about his generosity towards a children's hospital, but it seems that is what media has to do now to get eyes. The backlash on the Register has been swift and harsh, though, and with print media already on the decline, is probably pretty bad news for the paper overall.
- efa 7y agoTo get eyes and to CYA. In the current witch hunt environment you have to be be careful about ever praising someone. Later someone digs up a racist tweet and now you are the guy who praises a racist!
- leerob 7y agoDes Moines resident checking in. I can't believe how quickly this has escalated. From a feel-good local story to national news and now the reporter getting fired. What leaves the worst taste in my mouth is that the Register still hasn't apologized, and in their "statement", they still tried to shift blame back to Carson.
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoI don't understand the thought process that leads to Calvin publishing (well, submitting to his editors for review and publication) King's quotes in a negative light when he has said similar. Wouldn't you just chalk those kind of posts up to "meh, I'd do that, nothing to see here"? That said, if going looking to see if someone said something stupid on social media a decade ago is part of a "routine background check" then I think that speaks to something larger being wrong.
- mieseratte 7y agoSaw it written elsewhere: We live in a world where a crime you committed as a teenager is washed away but not something you said.
- Overtonwindow 7y agoTry entering politics. People complain about the quality of politicians in the electorate, but that’s because a lot of people just don’t want the scrutiny that will inevitably come should they seek office.
- magashna 7y agoDo as I say, not as I've done.
- onorton 7y ago> I don't understand the thought process that leads to Calvin publishing (well, submitting to his editors for review and publication) King's quotes in a negative light when he has said similar. Wouldn't you just chalk those kind of posts up to "meh, I'd do that, nothing to see here"? Hubris, presumably. "I'm not the subject of the story. Why would anyone go after me?"
- ineedasername 7y agoI'm mostly surprised that, in reporting on it at all, he didn't also think to himself, "Oh crap, I've said some bad things too. I should clean that up first."
- creaghpatr 7y agoIt's not that complicated, Carson King's tweets were not newsworthy and not even remotely part of the story. By digging into the subject's background for dirt and then leveraging that dirt to get Busch Light to cancel the relationship, Aaron Calvin inserted himself into the story, opening the door to the backlash. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
- yhoneycomb 7y agoYeah but he had to have ran that story by an editor, and the editor approved. Right? So tired of the easiest scapegoats getting all the flak.
- mieseratte 7y agoReminds me of the VW emissions, blame it on a low-level engineer.
- creaghpatr 7y agoI think the editor mistakenly thought this was a now-acceptable way to make the story even bigger
- yhoneycomb 7y agoAnd I’m sure the reporter thought the same. So why was only one punished? For the record, I don’t think either should be punished as long as they give a legit apology.
- Fjolsvith 7y agoWell then lets do away with punishment and let everyone off with an apology.
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoKing posted stuff that was basically a civil discussion on /b/ circa 2012. His mistake was posting it on twitter. This is basically a normal teenage mistake. Calvin posted similar stuff more recently and while working as a reporter. This fails to meet the standard of behavior we expect adults who work in journalism to hold themselves to. Simply put, posting that kind of crap indicates he is not qualified to do his job. If he was working in a different industry it would be different (e.g. if your accountant is a neo-nazi it probably doesn't impact their ability to do their job) but the fact of the matter he is in a publicly facing role and in those kinds of roles being able to at appear neutral (or at least not too extreme) matters.
- adolph 7y agoThat reporter is no longer with the Register. https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/from-the-editor/2019/09/26/carson-king-tweet-editor-response-investigation-iowa-childrens-hospital-donations/3780741002/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/f...
- pp19dd 7y agohttps://archives.cjr.org/the_kicker/matthew_keys_reuters_indicted.php https://archives.cjr.org/the_kicker/matthew_keys_reuters_ind...
- lettergram 7y agoI feel like the most recent “battle cries” are along the lines of: “In the name of tolerance, I cannot tolerate even one tweet disagreeing with my world view!” I’m glad this journalist was punished, but honestly it’s a systemic issue.
- yhoneycomb 7y agoWhat the fuck dude? The old tweets he dug up were pretty bad. You’re acting like people thought they were offensive for no reason. With that said, Kings response to people finding out about his tweets showed understanding and compassion. Qualities it seems you lack.
- mieseratte 7y ago> showed understanding and compassion. Qualities it seems you lack. Based on your tone, this seems like a pot-kettle situation.
- bluejekyll 7y agoWhenever tolerance is used as a scapegoat for intolerant behavior, it’s always important to consider the Paradox of Tolerance: "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- efa 7y agoAnd the definition of what it means to be intolerant is shifting daily.
- bluejekyll 7y agoIntolerance is pretty easy to identify. I would guess that what you’re referring to is the degree of intolerant behavior that people choose to respond to or not. That is, certain types of intolerant behavior have been “accepted” by society when it is directed at certain marginalized groups or concepts. What’s changed is that the behavior is now deemed as wrong, but it was always intolerant.
- jdpedrie 7y agoAs long as we continue to hold things people said as teenagers a decade ago against them, this will continue happening. People started tweeting their every though long before they began considering the potential future consequences of that action. People grow and mature, and assuming the worst thing they've ever said is an accurate reflection of their entire character is wrong. And finally, norms have changed drastically over the last decade. I think it's foolish to hold historical figures to today's societal norms, and I think the same about any of us a decade ago. We're in a state of mutually assured destruction right now. I can't imagine that this state of affairs can hold much longer. Eventually, for all our sake, I hope we can remember the wisdom in Christ's words, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
- jameskilton 7y agoThis is IMO the fundamental problem with the Internet (particularly today, Twitter and Facebook): it doesn't forget. One of humanity's greatest strengths is that we forget. We forget slights made against us, we forget things we and others have said, and we move on with our lives. Otherwise it would be very difficult to live with each other. We even have proof of this. Some people have perfect memories and never forget anything, and while some learn how to live with it, for others it is absolute hell. Social media has broken that contract for everyone, and we still haven't figured out that storing and indexing everything indefinitely is actually one of the worst decision tech companies have made.
- reroute1 7y agoIt's the worst decision for a few people who made disparaging comments on social media and then are put in the spotlight. The Internets permanent memory is one of it's greatest strengths IMO not a "fundamental problem". These stories blow over and people get on with real life, but the knowledge base and access to information remains.
- 14 7y agoI have to agree I like having a time machine to look back on and think it is important almost like a history book. But a big part of me sympathises with people who find themselves in those situations. I don't think I have said anything I would regret on line but know there were some times in my younger life where I held some pretty charged views. Unless you are in someone's shoes it is hard to understand why they are saying the things they did. Perhaps they grew up in a completely racist house with parents that fed them that information. It doesn't make what the person said any less terrible but I think as a society we should be open to forgiveness where it is due. I don't think everything should be forgiven as some things cross the lines that can never be taken back but hope as a society we can realize that racial beliefs and political views and thoughts about police can change as one matures and is educated. What a mess.
- thrower123 7y agoThis sort of thing is inevitable given the trend of weaponizing social media history. No one with any online presence can, over a long enough time scale, go without eventually posting something stupid, or something that can be construed as offensive. Especially when the line between what is acceptable humor and not shifts over time. The media has made a lot of hay crucifying people lately. The only way to push back against that effectively does seem to be deploying their own tactics against them in this kind of mutually assured destruction. There is a high level of hubris in penning a story dragging someone for stupid tweets made as a teenager, and not bothering to at least scrub your own timeline before publishing.
- noonespecial 7y agoI always thought that "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." quote attributed to Richelieu was hyperbole (and so not likely to be an actual quote). I'm no longer sure about either of those assumptions.
- efa 7y agoThat reminds me of the Richard Nixon (or LBJ) recordings. There was literally years of conversation captured. It would be pretty easy to piece together some damaging utterances with years or recordings.
- bart_spoon 7y agoThe problem is that I'm not sure there can be "mutually assured destruction" when one group has much more power to dictate the narrative. The media can't completely control the story, but they certainly have lots of influence. Just over the last couple years there have been: * NYT editor apologizes for racist tweets about Jews and Indians [0] * NYT editor demoted for past racist tweets [1] * NYT editor apologizes for racist tweets about white people [2] * NYT stands by editor who made racist tweets about white people [3] However, the only punishment received by any of these people was a demotion in the case of [1]. Meanwhile, the paper has the power to put out articles that shape the narrative, deflect attention away from the tweets in question, and reframe the story as an attack on journalism by nefarious actors [4]. Meanwhile, if a non-member of the media, particularly in the case of an average person like Carson King, has their past tweets dug up and reported on, they don't have anything close to the same voice to defend themselves, and are more liable to be treated as a pariah by the public or fired by their workplace. [0] https://thehill.com/homenews/media/458466-new-york-times-editor-deletes-and-apologizes-for-past-offensive-tweets https://thehill.com/homenews/media/458466-new-york-times-edi... [1] https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/ny-times-demotes-top-dc-editor-over-racist-tweets/ https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/ny-times-demotes-top-dc-editor... [2] https://www.rt.com/usa/469408-nyt-editor-racist-tweets/ https://www.rt.com/usa/469408-nyt-editor-racist-tweets/ [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534 [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/25/us/politics/trump-allies-news-media.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/25/us/politics/trump-allies-...
- rayiner 7y agoNext let’s do Ben Penn: https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/ben-penns-bad-faith-hit-job-on-leif-olson/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/ben-penns-bad-faith-h...
- creaghpatr 7y agoThat one was even more egregious, in my opinion.
- Overtonwindow 7y agoI think it’s called being a hypocrite. People evolve, people change, just because you posted something racist 10 years ago doesn’t mean you’re a racist, doesn’t mean you’re a bigot, it means you’re an idiot. This crap of holding things over peoples head from long ago, and then continuing to beat him with it has got to stop.
- woopwoop 7y agoI cannot fathom how this story is possibly in this sites purview.
- gumby 7y agoGiven that it’s about real world impact of tweets, and the changing social expectations around personal comments, I’d say it’s highly relevant.
- ineedasername 7y agoIt's at the cross section of modern technology & its impact on society. Seems right to me. Also, take a look at the community guidelines: They don't specify "tech news only", and in fact specify as on-topic "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity". By that definition, pretty much anything that gets enough up-votes to rise to the community's attention is de-facto on topic. Your comment, on the other hand, is decidedly against the community guidelines: "Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it." guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ineedasername 7y agoAt this point, I'm surprised people don't routinely go in and look at what they've written in the past and get rid of this sort of thing proactively. Though I suppose a person who writes these things may be the type that wouldn't think to go back like that. However, I believe that as a society we need to realize that people can change. The issue of gay marriage is a case in point: We didn't get to this level of support just by having older folks die off with younger more accepting folks left to support it. Prior to these systems, a person might have been homophobic a decade ago and reconsidered their views since then, only you'd never know it-- you would only be left with their current actions to judge them. In my view that's much more important that what they believed 10 years or even 2 years ago.
- greenonions 7y agoI agree. Offensive statements and actions should be considered with their age along with the offending parties age. In fact, I'd argue that reflection upon mistakes is one of the most important drivers of growth and maturity. I personally have been deeply changed by learning that I've wronged someone, and been motivated to change my actions in the future.
- scarejunba 7y agoI actually purged my online presence of anything risky a few years ago but archive.org still has stuff! Whoops, all I have to do is hope no one goes looking there. It was all this "America is the Great Satan" from when I was fairly anarcho-syndicalist. Fortunately I cleared it all before it became mandatory to share your social media with immigration officials. Phew!
- emikulic 7y agoLast I checked, archive.org respects robots.txt retroactively so if this was posted on domains you control, you can fix it.
- scarejunba 7y agoRespect, brotherman. I will complete the purge posthaste.
- spoovy 7y agoSeems like a certain type of person loves to demonise others; to root out people they can add to their bad guy list and gaining social acceptance points from the fellow good guys in return. I have nothing to back this up but I can't help feeling the dumbing down of popular culture, like adults watching superhero films for example, has something to do with this.
- falcolas 7y agoI heard something almost exactly like this addressed before: “They are a fantastic person. They’re almost the perfect person. How close to perfect? Shy by just two tweets.” Witch hunts like this are part of the reason why countries think that the right to be forgotten might be a good thing for their citizens.
- cpr 7y agoIf you're in the right victim group, you can get away with anything. E.g., https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/08/03/an-asian-american-womans-tweets-ignite-a-debate-is-it-okay-to-make-fun-of-white-people-online/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/08...
- tamaharbor 7y agoHe’s toast.
- propter_hoc 7y agoInteresting counterpoint, interview with the reporter: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/juliareinstein/des-moines-register-iowa-reporter-fired-aaron-calvin-carson https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/juliareinstein/des-moin... Also includes a summary of what the reporter's own tweets were (not included in the OP).
- duxup 7y agoHe was a kid, he grew up and has made it clear he doesn't support those past tweets anymore. We want people to move on from bigoted ideas right? If so then it appears he has and that should be the end of it.
- intopieces 7y agoGet off Twitter. Get off Instagram, get off Facebook. Get off social media before it's weaponized against you. The eye of Sauron could be upon you at any moment.
- crb002 7y agoThe problem was with the editor Carol Hunter. Firing the cub reporter for writing the tabloid copy she wanted made it all the more worse. Until the Register removes Hunter the paper is defacto dead to much of Iowa.