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Also owner of a TM3. Best car I've ever owned by a lot. People sure do get mad about Blutooth. Also, at least they're able to have a 'software direction'. No

• rainyMammoth 7y ago
  Here is what I don't understand: you paid a small fortune for your car and if this was any other car from any other manufacturer you would react like your parent comment. But because it is a Tesla you are dismissing all the issues and sell it as the best car ever. This wouldn't fly with any other car. If you spent 50k$ on a Audi with poor quality you would probably complain about it. It is a pattern I see with nearly all the other TM3 owners that dismiss every single issue. Really trying to understand but what is so different with a Tesla? Is it the Hype factor? The feeling to be in a religious group?
  • TaylorAlexander 7y ago
    I’m not a Tesla owner but it does seem to me that buying in to the company that has single handedly changed the landscape of electric vehicles is a pretty exciting notion. I’d be happier to have a vehicle built on seemingly better principles and support the company even if they’re not perfect. But then I use Linux even though it’s difficult at times because what I am using is more important than any specific flaws it has.
    • rainyMammoth 7y ago
      It occurs to me that I would equate Mac to Tesla and Linux to a car in which you get full access to the engine and are able to change any piece you want. Tesla is the opposite of Linux philosophy.
      • deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      • TaylorAlexander 7y ago
        Well I agree if you mean “hackable open system”, but I meant it as “product which I agree with ideologically even if the specific user experience is sometimes inferior”.
      • greglindahl 7y ago
        After I got a Tesla I had a lot of fun writing javascript software for the big touchscreen. It was especially cool for hackathons. YMMV.
      • boznz 7y ago
        ALL cars sold today are the opposite of the linux philosophy
        • Phillipharryt 7y ago
          How?? You can service your own car unless you're looking at something ridiculous like a Bugatti or Mclaren. You can modify them to any legal extent.
      • kybernetikos 7y ago
        > Tesla is the opposite of Linux philosophy. It literally records and reports back to HQ. If you ever make any statement that Tesla doesn't like, they will use what should be your own data against you. Surveillance capitalism. Ownership as a service. They also restrict the repairability via software. It's as far from gnu as its possible to be.
        • xedeon 7y ago
          > It literally records and reports back to HQ. If you ever make any statement that Tesla doesn't like, they will use what should be your own data against you. Wow. Take out the tinfoil hat Sir. I'll PayPal you $1000USD if you can cite this ridiculous claim. > They also restrict the repairability via software. You CAN perform repairs on them, you can even access the parts catalog (https://epc.teslamotors.com https://epc.teslamotors.com) for free when most manufacturers charge for this or even restrict it to dealers only. Need a part? Just call up a service center! Many people have also refurbished Tesla battery packs and even rebuilt salvaged cars: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/my-first-model-3-rebuild.139049/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/my-first-model-3-reb...
  • damon_c 7y ago
    It's not that complicated. Drive one and you will see that they are pretty different from any other car in a number of ways.
    • rainyMammoth 7y ago
      Why would you assume that if I drive one I would automatically like it? I drove one for a couple days. It is a nice experience but a very early product that is far from perfect and the finish was what I would have expected for a cheap Toyota.
      • xedeon 7y ago
        > Why would you assume that if I drive one I would automatically like it? Because that seems to be the consensus among us owners who give test drives during Tesla meetups. Also add neighbors to the mix who ask about the cars. I now referred 6 people this way. Not once in 34 years have I had given test drives in my previous (mostly german) cars or other people become curious enough to knock on my door. Surely, there's something interesting going on here isn't there?
    • Fins 7y ago
      Well, after I drove one I liked it even less. But if some people enjoy paying Mercedes prices for Yugo quality, all the power to them. Although regularly driving into firetrucks costs us as taxpayers money. But then fleecing taxpayers is the major part of Tesla's marketing anyway.
    • whenchamenia 7y ago
      This argument is tired. Many people drive teslas without being particularly impressed by anything but the torque. Its certainly not build quality.
  • Lorenzo45 7y ago
    The issues are relatively minor in the grand scheme of the user experience of the car. They're also easily dismissed because of the regular updates that Tesla puts out like this one (addressed complaints like Bluetooth and Spotify). People would be more frustrated with software issues from another car maker because it would mean waiting longer for a fix and going in to a dealership to get the update.
    • RealWorldPolice 7y ago
      Do you own a Tesla? Do you feel that autopilot has improved? And the nag / inability to sense the presence of hands on wheel... to put it mildly, I would pay a lot of money to revert my AP software.
  • leesec 7y ago
    Yeah so I don't care about the blutooth because my car DRIVES ITSELF a big percent of the time. it's fundamentally changed how I view driving. Stop and Go traffic no longer makes me mad. Road trips no longer exhaust me. There's probably some issues but none that I care about. It feels like driving the future. It's an absolute joy to drive. No gas stations is pretty nice too.
    • rainyMammoth 7y ago
      I'm driving a Toyota Corolla with lane assist which does 95% of what Tesla "Self Driving" does. It accelerates and brakes for me in traffic, and correct courses to stay in my lane. This is a 18k$ car and I would not accept trading Bluetooth issues with fancy parking summon features.
      • SECProto 7y ago
        Having driven a car with Toyota's smart driving features... I view them as a negative. Cruise control keeps me too far back from whatever vehicle is in front of me. Dealbreaker with no clear way to disable. I'll stick with my 7 year old Yaris (which also has shitty Bluetooth)
        • DevoidSimo 7y ago
          I rented one once, you can adjust the follow distance for the adaptive cruise control. Annoyingly it resets each time you turn on the car though.
          • SECProto 7y ago
            In my experience, none of them are a reasonable distance back. If it gave an audible chime first or something, it would be fine.
        • bashinator 7y ago
          How far back is that? I generally try to leave at least 10 car-lengths in fast traffic, 3-5 in heavy traffic.
  • fortran77 7y ago
    Especially the "3" owners. There are so many cut-corners on the "3" yet the owners of this budget car will explain away it all.
    • bobsil1 7y ago
      The powertrain is more powerful and more efficient than any other in its class. A lot of people don't care about paint or trivial fit 'n finish stuff.
      • greglindahl 7y ago
        Different people care about different things. If Tesla gets 0% of the "we care most about fit and finish" market, that's fine at Tesla's current market share.
        • bobsil1 7y ago
          Tesla's clearly an internals/advance core tech co vs. a design/polish co., because of Elon's personality (like most entrepreneurs), and so still attracts earlier adopters.
      • fortran77 7y ago
        You can get a Chevy Bolt with perfect fit and finish! 100% of Tesla 3 owners would get an "S" if only they could afford it.
        • bobsil1 7y ago
          S is a different body size entirely, and Model 3 has some more advanced tech (e.g. more power-efficient) until S refreshed. 3 is actually cannibalizing S sales.
          • RealWorldPolice 7y ago
            Perhaps I'm missing something, but how does anyone know that it's "cannibalizing" S sales rather than just "S sales are down?"
  • bobsil1 7y ago
    Teslas are the first software-centric EV, with the most advanced autopilot. No one is even really trying.
  • dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >But because it is a Tesla you are dismissing all the issues and sell it as the best car ever. This wouldn't fly with any other car. If you spent 50k$ on a Audi with poor quality you would probably complain about it. Nobody wants to look like they pissed their money away so popular expensive stuff gets the benefit of the doubt whether it deserves it or not. For example: When your Tesla has a shitty interface it's your fault for being too dumb to use it right. When your BMW makes you go through one too many menus to change the GPS routing preferences it's the Germans over-complicating things. When your S10 snaps in half it's a piece of shit. When your Tacoma snaps in half it's the government's fault for salting the road When you break a Harbor Freight wrench the wrench sucks. When you break a Snap On you were abusing it. When the server misunderstands what you said at a 5-star restaurant its your fault for not being clear. When the server at the burger joint does it they're an idiot. When something is spilled at Whole Foods they haven't cleaned it up yet. When something is spilled at Walmart it's because the store is a dump. When someone breaks into your car in SF it's because they need to feed their family. When someone's breaks into your car in Buffalo it's because Buffalo is too dysfunctional to control crime. I'm generalizing a bit here with these examples but you get the point.
  • crazy_eye 7y ago
    TM3 owner here. I agree completely that there is a level of hype around Tesla akin to Apple, and along with that comes a polarized audience. I can't change your mind, but I'll provide my anecdotal experience. In our objective search of fully electric vehicles, the model 3 stood alone for us on the 3 most important things in our case, with awd, 310 miles of range, and a mature fast-charging network. On top of that, in our experience, the fit, finish, tight acceleration/deceleration, low center of gravity and polar moment of inertia, and pure joy of driving make it the best car we've owned, EV or not. In our opinion it beats out not only EVs but all cars in the 50k price range. Add to the above the following positives, and you can get an idea why model 3 owners might be ok dealing with a few negatives. self driving features, ota updates, top safety ratings, pre-cool/heat interior (and now defrost with v10) from app, regenerative braking for one pedal driving, brake pads last longer, low maint costs, lowering overall tco
  • jread 7y ago
    I've been a Tesla owner for 5 years - currently have a P85+ (mine), M3 (wife) and Mercedes GL (family car). Prior to this owned 2 Fords, and 2 Hondas before that. For me personally, I'll take the Tesla any day over any other brand, and my non-techy wife is the same. Hard to explain, but I think it's the overall ownership and driving experience including: - Buying experience is so much more pleasant - set price and no pressure - Service experience has been great - much better than Ford or Mercedes. Mercedes is good, but every time we take it in they want a small fortune for this or that - you really get the sense that it's a profit center, whereas Tesla is not like this - No more gas stations - full charge every day, and superchargers make trips and range anxiety a non-issue (owned a Ford EV previously and it sucked in this regard), and overall electricity costs are much lower than gas - We both love the user interface - as easy and intuitive as an iPad. I don't miss the buttons, and it's so much easier to use than the Mercedes or Ford infotainment systems - and integrated connectivity and OTA updates are superior to those systems as well. - Fast and fun to drive - handles well - Lots of room for trips - frunk, trunk, rear facing seats - the P85+ is a great family car - we've done road trips with 4 kids, dog and luggage no problem - I like the styling - P85+ with chrome delete and 21s looks really great - Less environmental impact - I support Tesla's mission and enjoy doing a small part to combat global warming and advance EV adoption - I enjoy the gimmicky stuff - games, whoopee cushion - Much less maintenance (except for the darn 21" tires), no oil changes, and over the lifespan of the car I believe maintenance costs will be much lower I will say that build quality is subpar - the Mercedes is notably better in this regard - very nice. Additionally, I don't trust autopilot for anything but long road trips (it's excellent for that), it's tried to kill me too many times - I think the marketing hype is way ahead of actual capabilities.
    • CreepGin 7y ago
      > I don't trust autopilot for anything but long road trips (it's excellent for that), it's tried to kill me too many times - I think the marketing hype is way ahead of actual capabilities. What about in heavy traffic situations? Is autopilot practical for that? I tried to get the driver assistant package (adaptive cruise and lane keeping) for my bmw x4 3 years ago. It was being marketed as good for stop & go situations. But when I talked to the rep, he strongly recommended against it, saying the tech is all right but most drivers would not bother using it. I guess the same can be said about auto parking.
  • xedeon 7y ago
    > Really trying to understand but what is so different with a Tesla? Is it the Hype factor? The feeling to be in a religious group? If you are really trying to understand, why don't you test drive one? Only then will you truly know. Having owned a Model S (traded it in for a Model 3) and X. There is no way I will buy any other car. Maybe if MB, BMW or Audi leapfrogs Tesla in both charging infrastructure and software features. But frankly with the velocity of how quickly Tesla releases new features for FREE, I'm not holding my breath.
    • rainyMammoth 7y ago
      I DID and I still don't understand. It's especially obnoxious from Tesla owner to think that if we try it we will automatically think alike.
      • xedeon 7y ago
        Then you don't like it? Cool! It's not the end of the world I promise. You can still buy whatever car you want. Why don't you let people buy what they please with their hard earned money?
        • RealWorldPolice 7y ago
          That's nothing like what they said. They are not telling people what to buy. They are trying to understand the willingness of many Tesla owners to brush off being misled and ignored by the manufacturer of their car, and to do things like you just did. I own a P100D and the magic wore off for me. Apparently it hasn't for you. Peace.
          • xedeon 7y ago
            > Tesla owners to brush off being misled and ignored by the manufacturer of their car Huh? how so, can you provide examples? > I own a P100D and the magic wore off for me. Apparently it hasn't for you. It certainly hasn't, to the point that we got rid all of our gas vehicles for a 3/X (Owned an S since 2015). Also, four of our neighbors also randomly rang our doorbell in the last 6 months asking about the cars. An underrated feature of these cars is safety, I can't put a price on that. I showed them the features, gave them test drives and told them my honest opinion and experience. A few weeks later, they all ended up buying one.
  • m463 7y ago
    I think it is enough like a phone or tablet, that people make the leap and expect things to evolve and be fixed with the same rapidity. And they probably would if the sales volumes and customer upgrade timeframes were anywhere NEAR what they were for phones and tablets.
  • daemonk 7y ago
    Perhaps I am not the target for your frustration. But I just like how it drives and its minimal interior. I like that I don't need to go to a gas station every week. And I actually like the touch screen. Everything else is just a nice to have for me. Maybe you can give me examples of other cheaper cars that might have some of the same things I like. But I am pretty happy with my purchase. Do I think I am in some kind of religious group? I don't think so, but may be I am wrong. This all feels like reactions I hear when I tell tech bros that I like Apple products. It just feels like people take this shit really seriously.
  • dpkonofa 7y ago
    I disagree wholeheartedly but I am, admittedly, also an owner of a Tesla. The thing is that it's not like any other car from any other manufacturer and it's, by a good multitude of miles, the best car I've ever owned. There's nothing, to me, that's "poor quality" about it and people complaining that they don't like features that were added after they purchased the car because those particular features don't apply to them or get them excited is kinda ridiculous. I've never had a car that ever added features that I didn't have on purchase. My Teslas didn't have dashcams when I bought them. Now, they not only have a dashcam but 2 side cams and, starting next week, a rear cam that automatically record while I'm driving and while I'm parked and away from my car. It's really not that we're dismissing issues. I think it's just that these cars get so much right and just have a different philosophy about how cars should work that the little things that annoy people tend to stick out for them a lot. I have driven lots of luxury cars, owned BMWs, and am a pretty big technophile. There is not a question in my mind that the Teslas are the best cars I've ever owned or had to pleasure of driving. It sounds like the parent that you're claiming we'd be like if it was any other car is upset about the car he was hoping he'd eventually get as opposed to the car he actually got. I don't think any other car, regardless of price, ever gets any better or changes after you buy it. That alone makes the statement a little ridiculous, in my mind.
  • m-i-l 7y ago
    > what is so different with a Tesla? Right now, in the UK, the Tesla Model 3 is the only option that (i) is 100% electric, (ii) can go from e.g. London to Edinburgh with one charge stop, and (iii) can fit in a standard UK size garage. There are simply no other cars available in the UK at the moment that meet these 3 basic requirements. There are others coming close, e.g. the Jaguar iPace, and some due soon that might meet them fully, e.g. the Volkswagen ID.3 due next year, but right now if these are your requirements you have no other choice. That makes it pretty different, in fact unique. To use the Apple analogy, it would be like if the iPhone was the only smartphone that could last a day without recharging and fit in your pocket, so if you had one (and also believed that one day everyone with feature phones would replace them with smartphones that could fit in your pocket) then that might make you feel ahead of the curve, and you might even be more forgiving if basic functionality like copy and paste wasn't yet available.
• tw04 7y ago
  Right, because those vendors were smart enough to add support for Android auto and carplay and leave it to Google and apple. I have a model y on order, but if they can't figure out infotainment soon I'll likely cancel it. I spend way too much time driving to deal with garbage infotainment.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • covercash 7y ago
    I wonder if they can just run CarPlay/Android Auto in a VM and display it on 1/2 the screen?
    • denkmoon 7y ago
      Both of those already are VMs, running on QNX hypervisor. It should be pretty trivial for them to add it if they chose to.
  • mlindner 7y ago
    And those other cars also have postage stamp sized displays that don't let you watch Netflix nor Hulu nor live tv. Nor do they allow steering wheel integration to racing games.
    • tw04 7y ago
      Since I spend exactly 0 hours a day sitting in my car doing nothing, Netflix an Hulu aren't on my list of useful features. If for some reason I'm not driving and I'm still sitting in the car, I'm probably on a conference call.
      • dlgeek 7y ago
        They're pushing these because they need you to feel like you're covered during recharging time on longer trips.
• klarrimore 7y ago
  Everyone's current phone is most likely the greatest phone they ever owned. It doesn't mean it's prefect and doesn't have plenty to complain about.