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Bit of a bad look that the video clip showing Smart Summon shows the Tesla driving the wrong direction down a one-way lane... This might be a situation where T

Bit of a bad look that the video clip showing Smart Summon shows the Tesla driving the wrong direction down a one-way lane... This might be a situation where Tesla Smart Summon works only when Tesla's are still rare. In areas where they are more common, I imagine a traffic jam of confused driverless Teslas trying to move past each other but get stuck in a small lane like the one in the video.

Judgmentality 7y ago
> In areas where they are more common, I imagine a traffic jam of confused driverless Teslas trying to move past each other but get stuck in a small lane like the one in the video. I wonder what kind of road rage this might induce.
ricardobeat 7y ago
It’s a parking lot, no right way.
- tidepod12 7y ago
  Traffic rules don't just magically go away just because you enter a parking lot. edit: the parent comment edited his comment to include "no right way", which I'd like to address: it is very common (at least in every America city I've ever been to) for parking lots to have lanes that are very clearly marked for only one-way travel. These lanes, like the one shown in the video, are typically only wide enough for one car, and if someone is going the wrong way down one, there's a good chance they'll cause a traffic jam if they encounter someone who is going the right way. Sure, since it's in a parking lot you might not get a ticket from a police officer. But these rules and established traffic flows still exist for a reason, and if Smart Summon disregards them, it has the potential to cause some incredibly inconvenient situations for both the Tesla owner and anyone else involved.
  - smileysteve 7y ago
    Legally, they kind of do.
    - teachrdan 7y ago
      Try parking in a handicapped spot and see what happens; some laws clearly do apply in a parking lot.
      - slg 7y ago
        If we are going to be pedantic about this, and you pretty much have to be given the topic, a parking violation is not considered a traffic violation. Obviously a private parking lot isn't some completely lawless place, but many (most?) traffic laws don't apply there.
        vageli 7y ago
        > If we are going to be pedantic about this, and you pretty much have to be given the topic, a parking violation is not considered a traffic violation. Obviously a private parking lot isn't some completely lawless place, but many (most?) traffic laws don't apply there. So you can drive like 50 mph or do donuts, violate crosswalks with pedestrians in them, etc? Does your jurisdiction have no laws on reckless driving, exhibition of motor, etc? Sure the stop sign might not be the legal height required by your roadway authority but see if that stops a cop from citing you if you blow through it without observing traffic (aka drive recklessly). Hell, I know people who have received seat belt tickets while operating a motor vehicle in a parking lot.
        slg 7y ago
        I don't know what to tell you. You are free to Google it and see that it is pretty universal that many traffic laws don't apply in private parking lots (it obviously depends on jurisdiction). That doesn't mean you can't be ticketed for driving recklessly or endangering/injuring people, it just means it is fundamentally legally different than driving on a freeway.
  - matz1 7y ago
    >if someone is going the wrong way down one, there's a good chance they'll cause a traffic jam if they encounter someone who is going the right way True, but what if smart summon is smart enough to determine that it safe to go wrong way ?
    - tidepod12 7y ago
      I don't see how that would be universally possible. Take the video, for example: at the time of the video, the Tesla seems fine to continue the wrong direction down the lane. Maybe it's somehow "determined that it is safe" (even though I doubt it does that). But if one of those parked cars in front of the Tesla had pulled out and tried to leave, they would then be face-to-face and both would be stuck. Even if I am a human driving the car, I can pretty easily look down the lane and see it is clear right now, but if I do decide to go down it, I'm pretty much just hoping that another driver doesn't show up and block me.
      - matz1 7y ago
        Of course nothing is perfect. I'm happy if it smart enough most of the time. But at very least its not hard to imagine situation where its safe to drive on a wrong way in a parking lot. For example an empty parking lot. Even when another car show up and block it, meh not a big deal, its unlikely that the car will hit the other car.
- Topgamer7 7y ago
  Looks like a lane w/ parking, not a parking lot.
not_a_cop75 7y ago
I would like to see how a street full of all Teslas manage to avoid each other, or plow into each other. A sort of AI driven automotive musical chairs.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  I love that completely perfect or catastrophic failure are both acceptable out comes AND the only acceptable outcomes for that scenario. If a couple cars clipped each other or there were a couple fender benders everyone would be like "this is bullsh*t!"
Shivetya 7y ago
Owner of a Tesla model 3. Summon is the canary in the coal mine. As in, unless it shows signs of life then the fairy tale of self driving cars is just that, a fairy tale. If they cannot get a safe an accurate summon to work why should I ever believe my car will ever drive on its own. Do I believe it will come, not for years. My car cannot even identify a speed limit sign, maybe version 10 will help on that. I doubt it, v10 is all about what it can do while parked. I am so damn tired of them adding features for when I AM NOT DRIVING MY CAR. As in, I don't need Hulu or Netflix or such, this is all part of the disconnect at Tesla. They have sold even themselves that autonomous driving is RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER that they completely ignore improving quality of life features while driving, namely their blue tooth support for smart phones is poor, ten year old poor. It is illegal to use my phone physically while driving but if I want to change the play list my car is getting from my phone I have to resort to using my phone. This is a common feature on most cars today but Tesla never has had it. when pressed we get sycophants defending the decision because autonomous driving is coming "real" soon. Even more laughable, they never delivered on promised voice commands. I can tell the car where to go but heaven help me if I want it to change radio stations or select a new play list from my phone. Even voice control for Slacker is nothing more than a glorified Siri look up a song and hope it gets the right one. love my car but am not impressed much with their direction when it comes to adding features to the car. They almost got automatic wipers working consistently but automatic high beams is as spastic as a Jack Russel Terrier. ps: when asked, would I buy the car again? No. I do not care for their direction in software; namely focusing on what it can do while I am not driving it. I want a car that responds to me and makes tasks easier, not one that focuses on stuff to do while parked and charging, if its charging I certainly am not going to sit around in it. I already have been sitting for three plus hours driving it likely
- Ambroos 7y ago
  Well, I would hope the engineers working on Netflix and Caraoke aren't the ones who are working on self-driving features. They seem like different enough things that they could be worked on simultaneously. Full self-driving is a long time away anyway, and while we wait for that, features like this help cope with not having full self-driving and differentiating the car in the market.
muzika 7y ago
The rumor is that there is a patent for speed sign recognition that Tesla refuses to pay money for.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  Elsewhere in this discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21087492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21087492
- m-i-l 7y ago
  How did MobilEye manage to patent reading speed signs? Firstly, computers reading a number has plenty of prior art, and secondly, how can one company be allowed to have a monopoly on important public safety announcements?
coder543 7y ago
Look carefully, it isn't going the wrong way: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kennedy+Park+Pl,+California+94541/@37.4927795,-121.9451787,88m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f9109053ee829:0x3d170db85d4ffde2!8m2!3d37.6718571!4d-122.1146269 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kennedy+Park+Pl,+Californi... It's just a really bad parking lot design. Regardless, Smart Summon doesn't currently care about things like directionality in a parking lot. This version doesn't try to do anything fancy like reading markings on the pavement. The app will show you on a satellite map the route that the car is planning to go, assuming this release follows what was shown in the early access releases. As the person supervising its behavior, it's currently solely your responsibility to make sure that the car doesn't cause problems for other people. The car will do its best to avoid hitting anyone or anything while still making it to your location, but you're still the one in charge. Smart summon currently works via a dead man's switch. You have to hold down a button the entire time, and if you let go of the button for any reason, the car immediately stops. The long-term goal is that supervision won't always be necessary, of course, but this feature is available now -- with supervision. If you see an opportunity to use it, it's there. It will get better. I've personally watched Autopilot grow up from something barely usable as a driver assistance technology to something that works extremely well for every day usage.
- killjoywashere 7y ago
  one bit per frame for 20+ sensors. That is some weak supervision.
- fireattack 7y ago
  So if you want to park head-in (like most of the car in the vid and on Google Maps) you have to go the wrong way temporarily?
- benj111 7y ago
  "This version doesn't try to do anything fancy like reading markings on the pavement" Isnt that below minimum viable product for something expected to be used with other people around? "As the person supervising its behavior" I'm sure Uber said the same thing to the drivers on its self driving program. We all know human nature though, it isn't right to abdicate responsibility to someone you know is going to start blindly trusting your 'good enough' system. As a non Tesla owner, I don't want to be an inadvertent beta tester for these technologies.

Judgmentality 7y ago

> In areas where they are more common, I imagine a traffic jam of confused driverless Teslas trying to move past each other but get stuck in a small lane like the one in the video. I wonder what kind of road rage this might induce.

ricardobeat 7y ago

It’s a parking lot, no right way.

tidepod12 7y ago
Traffic rules don't just magically go away just because you enter a parking lot. edit: the parent comment edited his comment to include "no right way", which I'd like to address: it is very common (at least in every America city I've ever been to) for parking lots to have lanes that are very clearly marked for only one-way travel. These lanes, like the one shown in the video, are typically only wide enough for one car, and if someone is going the wrong way down one, there's a good chance they'll cause a traffic jam if they encounter someone who is going the right way. Sure, since it's in a parking lot you might not get a ticket from a police officer. But these rules and established traffic flows still exist for a reason, and if Smart Summon disregards them, it has the potential to cause some incredibly inconvenient situations for both the Tesla owner and anyone else involved.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  Legally, they kind of do.
  - teachrdan 7y ago
    Try parking in a handicapped spot and see what happens; some laws clearly do apply in a parking lot.
    - slg 7y ago
      If we are going to be pedantic about this, and you pretty much have to be given the topic, a parking violation is not considered a traffic violation. Obviously a private parking lot isn't some completely lawless place, but many (most?) traffic laws don't apply there.
      - vageli 7y ago
        > If we are going to be pedantic about this, and you pretty much have to be given the topic, a parking violation is not considered a traffic violation. Obviously a private parking lot isn't some completely lawless place, but many (most?) traffic laws don't apply there. So you can drive like 50 mph or do donuts, violate crosswalks with pedestrians in them, etc? Does your jurisdiction have no laws on reckless driving, exhibition of motor, etc? Sure the stop sign might not be the legal height required by your roadway authority but see if that stops a cop from citing you if you blow through it without observing traffic (aka drive recklessly). Hell, I know people who have received seat belt tickets while operating a motor vehicle in a parking lot.
        slg 7y ago
        I don't know what to tell you. You are free to Google it and see that it is pretty universal that many traffic laws don't apply in private parking lots (it obviously depends on jurisdiction). That doesn't mean you can't be ticketed for driving recklessly or endangering/injuring people, it just means it is fundamentally legally different than driving on a freeway.
- matz1 7y ago
  >if someone is going the wrong way down one, there's a good chance they'll cause a traffic jam if they encounter someone who is going the right way True, but what if smart summon is smart enough to determine that it safe to go wrong way ?
  - tidepod12 7y ago
    I don't see how that would be universally possible. Take the video, for example: at the time of the video, the Tesla seems fine to continue the wrong direction down the lane. Maybe it's somehow "determined that it is safe" (even though I doubt it does that). But if one of those parked cars in front of the Tesla had pulled out and tried to leave, they would then be face-to-face and both would be stuck. Even if I am a human driving the car, I can pretty easily look down the lane and see it is clear right now, but if I do decide to go down it, I'm pretty much just hoping that another driver doesn't show up and block me.
    - matz1 7y ago
      Of course nothing is perfect. I'm happy if it smart enough most of the time. But at very least its not hard to imagine situation where its safe to drive on a wrong way in a parking lot. For example an empty parking lot. Even when another car show up and block it, meh not a big deal, its unlikely that the car will hit the other car.
Topgamer7 7y ago
Looks like a lane w/ parking, not a parking lot.

not_a_cop75 7y ago

I would like to see how a street full of all Teslas manage to avoid each other, or plow into each other. A sort of AI driven automotive musical chairs.

cptskippy 7y ago
I love that completely perfect or catastrophic failure are both acceptable out comes AND the only acceptable outcomes for that scenario. If a couple cars clipped each other or there were a couple fender benders everyone would be like "this is bullsh*t!"

Shivetya 7y ago

Owner of a Tesla model 3. Summon is the canary in the coal mine. As in, unless it shows signs of life then the fairy tale of self driving cars is just that, a fairy tale. If they cannot get a safe an accurate summon to work why should I ever believe my car will ever drive on its own. Do I believe it will come, not for years. My car cannot even identify a speed limit sign, maybe version 10 will help on that. I doubt it, v10 is all about what it can do while parked. I am so damn tired of them adding features for when I AM NOT DRIVING MY CAR. As in, I don't need Hulu or Netflix or such, this is all part of the disconnect at Tesla. They have sold even themselves that autonomous driving is RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER that they completely ignore improving quality of life features while driving, namely their blue tooth support for smart phones is poor, ten year old poor. It is illegal to use my phone physically while driving but if I want to change the play list my car is getting from my phone I have to resort to using my phone. This is a common feature on most cars today but Tesla never has had it. when pressed we get sycophants defending the decision because autonomous driving is coming "real" soon. Even more laughable, they never delivered on promised voice commands. I can tell the car where to go but heaven help me if I want it to change radio stations or select a new play list from my phone. Even voice control for Slacker is nothing more than a glorified Siri look up a song and hope it gets the right one. love my car but am not impressed much with their direction when it comes to adding features to the car. They almost got automatic wipers working consistently but automatic high beams is as spastic as a Jack Russel Terrier. ps: when asked, would I buy the car again? No. I do not care for their direction in software; namely focusing on what it can do while I am not driving it. I want a car that responds to me and makes tasks easier, not one that focuses on stuff to do while parked and charging, if its charging I certainly am not going to sit around in it. I already have been sitting for three plus hours driving it likely

Ambroos 7y ago
Well, I would hope the engineers working on Netflix and Caraoke aren't the ones who are working on self-driving features. They seem like different enough things that they could be worked on simultaneously. Full self-driving is a long time away anyway, and while we wait for that, features like this help cope with not having full self-driving and differentiating the car in the market.

muzika 7y ago

The rumor is that there is a patent for speed sign recognition that Tesla refuses to pay money for.

braythwayt 7y ago
Elsewhere in this discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21087492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21087492
m-i-l 7y ago
How did MobilEye manage to patent reading speed signs? Firstly, computers reading a number has plenty of prior art, and secondly, how can one company be allowed to have a monopoly on important public safety announcements?

coder543 7y ago

Look carefully, it isn't going the wrong way: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kennedy+Park+Pl,+California+94541/@37.4927795,-121.9451787,88m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f9109053ee829:0x3d170db85d4ffde2!8m2!3d37.6718571!4d-122.1146269 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kennedy+Park+Pl,+Californi... It's just a really bad parking lot design. Regardless, Smart Summon doesn't currently care about things like directionality in a parking lot. This version doesn't try to do anything fancy like reading markings on the pavement. The app will show you on a satellite map the route that the car is planning to go, assuming this release follows what was shown in the early access releases. As the person supervising its behavior, it's currently solely your responsibility to make sure that the car doesn't cause problems for other people. The car will do its best to avoid hitting anyone or anything while still making it to your location, but you're still the one in charge. Smart summon currently works via a dead man's switch. You have to hold down a button the entire time, and if you let go of the button for any reason, the car immediately stops. The long-term goal is that supervision won't always be necessary, of course, but this feature is available now -- with supervision. If you see an opportunity to use it, it's there. It will get better. I've personally watched Autopilot grow up from something barely usable as a driver assistance technology to something that works extremely well for every day usage.

killjoywashere 7y ago
one bit per frame for 20+ sensors. That is some weak supervision.
fireattack 7y ago
So if you want to park head-in (like most of the car in the vid and on Google Maps) you have to go the wrong way temporarily?
benj111 7y ago
"This version doesn't try to do anything fancy like reading markings on the pavement" Isnt that below minimum viable product for something expected to be used with other people around? "As the person supervising its behavior" I'm sure Uber said the same thing to the drivers on its self driving program. We all know human nature though, it isn't right to abdicate responsibility to someone you know is going to start blindly trusting your 'good enough' system. As a non Tesla owner, I don't want to be an inadvertent beta tester for these technologies.