3 ms·

> Yes, but many European countries engage in so-called tracking of students, putting them in separate tracks for tradeswork, skilled labor, and university such

> Yes, but many European countries engage in so-called tracking of students, putting them in separate tracks for tradeswork, skilled labor, and university such that the "dumb" ones aren't taking university entrance exams. Err, this is a positive thing? Personally I found the AP classes and SATs to be pretty useless beyond getting into college. We should just admit anyone who wants to to. If the point of this is to justify high international test scores, there’s a much better argument there to test either nobody or everyone.

mieseratte 7y ago
> We should just admit anyone who wants to to. Well, the problem was not only that anyone could enroll in the higher-track classes but teachers and counselors pushed many to take courses they weren't prepared or willing to take. I myself was heavily pressured into taking higher-level Spanish courses than I was capable of, or even willing to take. I was explicitly told I had to because I wouldn't get into any universities without it. They really wouldn't take no for an answer, and I ended my senior year with a 40 / 100 grade, but thankfully had a high enough GPA and enough credits to take the hit without issue. In almost every class one could expect the population to be bi-modal, you would have the flunkies with no desire or hope to succeed and you would have the students who wanted to be there. This resulted in the teachers often having to meet the lowest-common-denominator. We had a programming course (Visual Basic) that after the first month they switched to one of those "learn-to-program" visual building-block languages, but then myself and a few others raised hell so they allowed everyone to choose which they wanted to do in the same class of 30 or so. The reality was the counselors pushed the students to take the course, and most figured they would get a free 90 minutes of fucking around on the internet, and the teacher ended up giving the lower-end of students low-but-passing grades. As it were, I'd had that same teacher several years in a row and ended up as something of his assistant because I was already a competent programmer. They're not able to do anything, it's all a metrics / numbers game. To be clear, my point isn't about the benefits of tracking as it is a rebuke of a broken system of metrics-appeasing administrators cloaked in the lie that everyone is equally capable of the same things.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
nradov 7y ago
Community colleges admit anyone who wants to go. Students who do well there can then transfer to complete a Bachelor's degree. It's a great option for students who perform poorly on standardized tests.
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  This doesn’t change the fact that meritocratic admission is fundamentally broken at the other schools.
  - esyir 7y ago
    There are limited resources to provide high-end education. Effective use of those resources is key, and meritocratic admission is far preferable here to "just let everyone in".

mieseratte 7y ago

> We should just admit anyone who wants to to. Well, the problem was not only that anyone could enroll in the higher-track classes but teachers and counselors pushed many to take courses they weren't prepared or willing to take. I myself was heavily pressured into taking higher-level Spanish courses than I was capable of, or even willing to take. I was explicitly told I had to because I wouldn't get into any universities without it. They really wouldn't take no for an answer, and I ended my senior year with a 40 / 100 grade, but thankfully had a high enough GPA and enough credits to take the hit without issue. In almost every class one could expect the population to be bi-modal, you would have the flunkies with no desire or hope to succeed and you would have the students who wanted to be there. This resulted in the teachers often having to meet the lowest-common-denominator. We had a programming course (Visual Basic) that after the first month they switched to one of those "learn-to-program" visual building-block languages, but then myself and a few others raised hell so they allowed everyone to choose which they wanted to do in the same class of 30 or so. The reality was the counselors pushed the students to take the course, and most figured they would get a free 90 minutes of fucking around on the internet, and the teacher ended up giving the lower-end of students low-but-passing grades. As it were, I'd had that same teacher several years in a row and ended up as something of his assistant because I was already a competent programmer. They're not able to do anything, it's all a metrics / numbers game. To be clear, my point isn't about the benefits of tracking as it is a rebuke of a broken system of metrics-appeasing administrators cloaked in the lie that everyone is equally capable of the same things.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

nradov 7y ago

Community colleges admit anyone who wants to go. Students who do well there can then transfer to complete a Bachelor's degree. It's a great option for students who perform poorly on standardized tests.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago
This doesn’t change the fact that meritocratic admission is fundamentally broken at the other schools.
- esyir 7y ago
  There are limited resources to provide high-end education. Effective use of those resources is key, and meritocratic admission is far preferable here to "just let everyone in".