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This isn’t a very good analogy. In a just world, nobody would go hungry, nor would anyone die prematurely or suffer needlessly due to lack of care. We can obvi

This isn’t a very good analogy. In a just world, nobody would go hungry, nor would anyone die prematurely or suffer needlessly due to lack of care. We can obviously afford both, in this country, just like they can everywhere else in Europe or Canada. So this entire argument about insurance is a straw man. It’s not the doctors who set up this world. It’s people who want to pay less taxes, but blame doctors.

throwawaytoday5 7y ago
Why shouldn't doctors and the medical industry take the blame in the US? They artificially limit the supply of Doctors in the US and have the audacity to claim that building more medical schools will ruin their already lucrative careers. The whole industry is a shame.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
nine_k 7y ago
Regarding Europe, which I happen to have friends all over: it's not exactly as rosy. European countries do have more doctors per capita, which is good. They don't have nearly as much resources in the system, though. Come to a doctor with a bad cough, get a prescription for Paracetamol. You got to have a pretty bad infection to get a prescription for an antibiotic. Endure a long discussion with a doctor to renew an antidepressant prescription made in another country. Lines are pretty long, too. Wait for two weeks to get an appointment about your coughing and sneezing. Have a deteriorating chronic condition and be prescribed painkillers and be told to wait for a year. You're not yet feeling so bad as the people who are currently being treated and who take up the capacity; these people also waited a long time. All are examples from my friends dealing with the health systems of Netherlands, Sweden, Germany. The US system has a ton of issues, but I still take it over these European systems. Have I been floored by medical bills? Yes, from my dentist, from my wife's heart surgery. But I somehow managed — and we both received instant, high-quality help. Even the Russian system is better, or used to be back in the day. You could buy local insurance, and the choice was reasonably wide. You could pay upfront in cash, and the sums were manageable — Moscow definitely not being a cheap city, more expensive than many EU capitals. Of course, I'm talking from a perspective of a well-earning software engineer who lives in metropolises, not in countryside. Still I think that either system has downsides, and the European systems are not superior, but just suck differently.
- greggman2 7y ago
  In the USA, at least in my experience. If I have a cold I still had to make an appointment which would be 2 to 3 days later. I got around this by joining a doctor in a clinic and they'd let me see any doctor if my doctor wasn't avaiable but i'd have to sit in the waiting room for 1 - 2 hrs. In Japan I have had mixed experiences: Good: * It's relatively cheap. Apprently the government sets prices. The government offers medical insurence. It costs based on previous year's income. i've paid as little as $15 a month and as high as $300. I don't know the range. It only covers 70%. My employeers have provided insurance that covered more. * Fast. There are no appointments or a least I've never made one. Just walk in, usually no more than a 20 minute wait. Did have one long wait 1998. * Some pretty good tech. Had back problems once. Got an MRI immediately (Japan has/had ?x more MRI machines than USA). Last week had an unusual pain in neck, went in, got immediate endoscope pictures inside neck. Note that in Japan, unlike the USA, hospitals are a place you can just walk in for a cold. (you can also go to small clinics and private doctors). The advantage of going to a hospital is they have more specialists and equipmnent. The disadvantage is sometimes longer waits and probably not as close. I only bring that up as a contrast to USA where a hospital is someplace you don't go unless it's an emergency or surgery or something else really serious. Bad: * Bar to be a doctor much lower. Have had several very quack doctor expeiences in Japan. Have not yet had a quack doctor experience in USA * Unclean. Have been to several facilities that seemed unclean to me. Machines that looked like people had coughed on them for years and had never been cleaned. Not all places but enough the experience has stuck out. No idea what that's about but just surprised since my experience in the USA was that medical services are or at least appear spotless. Unknown: * Nurses require no training (or so I was told by a nurse). You just go apply for job like a fast food job. Is that better (lower cost) or worse (less training).
  - deepaksurti 7y ago
    >> In Japan I have had mixed experiences: Replace ‘Japan’ with ‘metro cities in India’ and its almost the same. I can’t still fathom why there would be no walk in facilities for ailments like cold. I still remember my shock when in US I realised from a colleague that for my cold I need to wait because I can’t walk in and need to take an appointment.

throwawaytoday5 7y ago

Why shouldn't doctors and the medical industry take the blame in the US? They artificially limit the supply of Doctors in the US and have the audacity to claim that building more medical schools will ruin their already lucrative careers. The whole industry is a shame.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

nine_k 7y ago

Regarding Europe, which I happen to have friends all over: it's not exactly as rosy. European countries do have more doctors per capita, which is good. They don't have nearly as much resources in the system, though. Come to a doctor with a bad cough, get a prescription for Paracetamol. You got to have a pretty bad infection to get a prescription for an antibiotic. Endure a long discussion with a doctor to renew an antidepressant prescription made in another country. Lines are pretty long, too. Wait for two weeks to get an appointment about your coughing and sneezing. Have a deteriorating chronic condition and be prescribed painkillers and be told to wait for a year. You're not yet feeling so bad as the people who are currently being treated and who take up the capacity; these people also waited a long time. All are examples from my friends dealing with the health systems of Netherlands, Sweden, Germany. The US system has a ton of issues, but I still take it over these European systems. Have I been floored by medical bills? Yes, from my dentist, from my wife's heart surgery. But I somehow managed — and we both received instant, high-quality help. Even the Russian system is better, or used to be back in the day. You could buy local insurance, and the choice was reasonably wide. You could pay upfront in cash, and the sums were manageable — Moscow definitely not being a cheap city, more expensive than many EU capitals. Of course, I'm talking from a perspective of a well-earning software engineer who lives in metropolises, not in countryside. Still I think that either system has downsides, and the European systems are not superior, but just suck differently.

greggman2 7y ago
In the USA, at least in my experience. If I have a cold I still had to make an appointment which would be 2 to 3 days later. I got around this by joining a doctor in a clinic and they'd let me see any doctor if my doctor wasn't avaiable but i'd have to sit in the waiting room for 1 - 2 hrs. In Japan I have had mixed experiences: Good: * It's relatively cheap. Apprently the government sets prices. The government offers medical insurence. It costs based on previous year's income. i've paid as little as $15 a month and as high as $300. I don't know the range. It only covers 70%. My employeers have provided insurance that covered more. * Fast. There are no appointments or a least I've never made one. Just walk in, usually no more than a 20 minute wait. Did have one long wait 1998. * Some pretty good tech. Had back problems once. Got an MRI immediately (Japan has/had ?x more MRI machines than USA). Last week had an unusual pain in neck, went in, got immediate endoscope pictures inside neck. Note that in Japan, unlike the USA, hospitals are a place you can just walk in for a cold. (you can also go to small clinics and private doctors). The advantage of going to a hospital is they have more specialists and equipmnent. The disadvantage is sometimes longer waits and probably not as close. I only bring that up as a contrast to USA where a hospital is someplace you don't go unless it's an emergency or surgery or something else really serious. Bad: * Bar to be a doctor much lower. Have had several very quack doctor expeiences in Japan. Have not yet had a quack doctor experience in USA * Unclean. Have been to several facilities that seemed unclean to me. Machines that looked like people had coughed on them for years and had never been cleaned. Not all places but enough the experience has stuck out. No idea what that's about but just surprised since my experience in the USA was that medical services are or at least appear spotless. Unknown: * Nurses require no training (or so I was told by a nurse). You just go apply for job like a fast food job. Is that better (lower cost) or worse (less training).
- deepaksurti 7y ago
  >> In Japan I have had mixed experiences: Replace ‘Japan’ with ‘metro cities in India’ and its almost the same. I can’t still fathom why there would be no walk in facilities for ailments like cold. I still remember my shock when in US I realised from a colleague that for my cold I need to wait because I can’t walk in and need to take an appointment.