5 ms·

The credit card/tab point is a really good one, IMO. There's something really offensive, as a customer, about walking into a business and being immediately sub

The credit card/tab point is a really good one, IMO. There's something really offensive, as a customer, about walking into a business and being immediately subject to the assumption that I'm there to rip them off. Why would I want to patronize your business if you want to treat me like a criminal? A particularly infuriating example of this is bookstores that demand you turn in your bag at the desk. I just walk out.

okmokmz 7y ago
I found that example odd, as in my experience the amount of bars that don't hold your card while a tab is open is in the minority (I don't go to that many, but I actually can't think of any nearby that DON'T take your card). Sometimes I'll just order and close out as soon as I walk in, sometimes I'll hand them my card and close out at the end, but I've never felt that I was being treated like a criminal
- MFLoon 7y ago
  I think they mean specifically if the bartender asks you to open your tab before taking your order and/or pouring your drink. For what it's worth I don't think I've ever experienced this, but I could see it being somewhat off-putting.
  - okmokmz 7y ago
    I usually hand them my card and ID right when they walk up, so I guess I've never experienced this
jacquesm 7y ago
It's extra rude if you consider the history. Bookstores of old had a counter where you entered, you placed your order and if the book was in stock someone would go and get it (or in case you ordered ahead they'd get your pre-packaged order for you). Then we figured that self-service is the way to go: rely on the customer to do their own orderpicking, en-passent exposing them to a lot of marketing and hopefully selling some more books. So now, on top of being required to do the work of the bookstore employees you also lose the benefit of the doubt and are being treated as though you are a common thief. Industry secret: lots of theft from bookstores is by employees.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  That's also lots of theft from convenience stores. 20 years ago I had a friend who, as manager, knew that the cameras didn't catch what happened when the lights were turned off at the end of the day. And he had the key... I made sure never to go to that store, either before or after closing time.
  - benj111 7y ago
    "I made sure never to go to that store, either before or after closing time" I don't understand. Why would your friend potentially (?) stealing put you off visiting?
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Since he lived closer to the mountains than I did, I was over at his house a lot. Stolen items were all over the house, and it seemed possible that he would be caught eventually. We had both recently moved to the area from several states away (not intentionally, we were both surprised) and it would have been easy for a cop to imagine that we were in cahoots. If I get arrested I want it to be for a good reason...
      - bluGill 7y ago
        Your should have turned him in - for your protection. My uncle had a roommate pulling something like that. (the roommate was actually a cop who would find open doors and then rob the place while checking out why the alarm was going off). My uncle figures that given how quick his roommate was arrested after he turned his roommate in that they already know his roommate was doing something and were just looking for evidence because there is no way he wasn't involved in the crimes.
        jessaustin 7y ago
        I don't think the two situations are that similar. I'd turn in a dirty cop in pretty much any context, but probably not a friend since junior high for theft.
OJFord 7y ago
> A particularly infuriating example of this is bookstores that demand you turn in your bag at the desk. I just walk out. Downside is that they probably then think Aha, well done Brian, stopped him in his tracks...
gbacon 7y ago
A friend detests the idea of warehouse clubs (Sam’s or Costco in the U.S., for example) checking receipts as he, the customer, walks out the door because he takes it as being under the assumption that he is a common criminal.
- statusquoantefa 7y ago
  they can't force you to participate in the receipt checking, you can refuse, and you are free to leave. Because those places are clubs, they can take your membership away and deny you entry in the future, but once you pay for something, it's yours, and they can't search you or your belongings against your will; unless they wish to make an allegation that they saw you steal something, in which case they can tell that to a police officer.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  Some warehouse stores may treat you that way, making you prove innocence with your receipt. But don't take it as given that this will happen. The Sam's I've been to spends about 2-3 seconds 'checking' receipts. They are very clearly just acting as greeters, not inquisitors.
glitcher 7y ago
I think it's not uncommon for people to forget to close their tab at bars and accidentally walk out without their card. I feel just fine with handing over my card upon opening a tab.
- jdnenej 7y ago
  This always catches me out. Places where you don't pay first are an exception so whenever I go to one that doesnt I always find my self walking to the door until I remember "oh wait, I haven't paid yet"
  - archi42 7y ago
    I think that really depends on where you live. Here it is basically the other way around, you order, you drink, order some more, and before leaving you pay the bill, with the bartender keeping a tab of what you ordered (these days with a mobile POS). The only "regular" exception is when they're about to close the place, then they often ask you to pay on delivery. Except the "our card reader is broken, we can only accept cash"-surprise, I can only remember three occasions this actually caused some hurdle for me in the past decade-and-a-half.
- noobiemcfoob 7y ago
  Many bars will have a default policy for unclosed tabs. My local bar assumes a 10% gratuity and calls it a day, so walk out as you please. Though it's the type of place where the bartenders notice 20+% tips and will serve you significantly better for it.
angry_octet 7y ago
This will hopefully go away as soon as the US moves away from antique payment systems with huge interchange fees. In other countries you just tap on the terminal to pay (either MC/VISA/Apple/local EFT system) and it completes in real time. The idea that I would give my credit card digits (and CCV!) to a bartender for safe keeping is almost physically painful. I'm the one thinking they are the criminal (and not without justification given the rate of card fraud). I don't let restaurant servers walk away with my card now. (And split bills should be automatic, they just don't do it because they get bigger tips that way.) Where are the book stores that ask you to leave your bag? Except for teens maybe it seems weird.
- clinta 7y ago
  I've never had a problem with service staff splitting bills in America. I've heard it's a problem in Europe, but then again I've also heard that tipping is not commonplace there.
  - angry_octet 7y ago
    IME split bills are super easy in France/Italy/Switzerland, the waiter brings their EFT machine to the table and tap tap tap all done. An no, you don't tip in Europe, even spare change, but the quality of service is more dependent on labour market conditions and choice of restaurant (i.e. wages are very high in CH and staff are hard to come by). Bill splitting is a major pain in Australia and I've done the whole yelp outrage thing after rude staff have refused to split the bill (when we said at the beginning!). I much prefer Denmark, where the bill is always split, and you have to take someone's bill to pay for them. See also: a year of living danishly https://www.amazon.co.uk/Year-Living-Danishly-Uncovering-Happiest-ebook/dp/B00Q8SR5L0 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Year-Living-Danishly-Uncovering-Hap...
    - NanoCoaster 7y ago
      > An no, you don't tip in Europe, even spare change Highly dependent on the region. In Germany and Austria [the only countries that I'm sure about :)], you're not as expected to tip as in the US for example, but it's still customary to do so. If your service was bad, you don't tip. If it was okay, you may or may not tip a small amount. If it was great, yes, absolutely, you do tip. > i.e. wages are very high in CH That's probably because wages in CH are very high in general. Kind of evens out, seeing as the cost of living is equally high compared to most other countries in central Europe.

okmokmz 7y ago

I found that example odd, as in my experience the amount of bars that don't hold your card while a tab is open is in the minority (I don't go to that many, but I actually can't think of any nearby that DON'T take your card). Sometimes I'll just order and close out as soon as I walk in, sometimes I'll hand them my card and close out at the end, but I've never felt that I was being treated like a criminal

MFLoon 7y ago
I think they mean specifically if the bartender asks you to open your tab before taking your order and/or pouring your drink. For what it's worth I don't think I've ever experienced this, but I could see it being somewhat off-putting.
- okmokmz 7y ago
  I usually hand them my card and ID right when they walk up, so I guess I've never experienced this

jacquesm 7y ago

It's extra rude if you consider the history. Bookstores of old had a counter where you entered, you placed your order and if the book was in stock someone would go and get it (or in case you ordered ahead they'd get your pre-packaged order for you). Then we figured that self-service is the way to go: rely on the customer to do their own orderpicking, en-passent exposing them to a lot of marketing and hopefully selling some more books. So now, on top of being required to do the work of the bookstore employees you also lose the benefit of the doubt and are being treated as though you are a common thief. Industry secret: lots of theft from bookstores is by employees.

jessaustin 7y ago
That's also lots of theft from convenience stores. 20 years ago I had a friend who, as manager, knew that the cameras didn't catch what happened when the lights were turned off at the end of the day. And he had the key... I made sure never to go to that store, either before or after closing time.
- benj111 7y ago
  "I made sure never to go to that store, either before or after closing time" I don't understand. Why would your friend potentially (?) stealing put you off visiting?
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Since he lived closer to the mountains than I did, I was over at his house a lot. Stolen items were all over the house, and it seemed possible that he would be caught eventually. We had both recently moved to the area from several states away (not intentionally, we were both surprised) and it would have been easy for a cop to imagine that we were in cahoots. If I get arrested I want it to be for a good reason...
    - bluGill 7y ago
      Your should have turned him in - for your protection. My uncle had a roommate pulling something like that. (the roommate was actually a cop who would find open doors and then rob the place while checking out why the alarm was going off). My uncle figures that given how quick his roommate was arrested after he turned his roommate in that they already know his roommate was doing something and were just looking for evidence because there is no way he wasn't involved in the crimes.
      - jessaustin 7y ago
        I don't think the two situations are that similar. I'd turn in a dirty cop in pretty much any context, but probably not a friend since junior high for theft.

OJFord 7y ago

> A particularly infuriating example of this is bookstores that demand you turn in your bag at the desk. I just walk out. Downside is that they probably then think Aha, well done Brian, stopped him in his tracks...

gbacon 7y ago

A friend detests the idea of warehouse clubs (Sam’s or Costco in the U.S., for example) checking receipts as he, the customer, walks out the door because he takes it as being under the assumption that he is a common criminal.

statusquoantefa 7y ago
they can't force you to participate in the receipt checking, you can refuse, and you are free to leave. Because those places are clubs, they can take your membership away and deny you entry in the future, but once you pay for something, it's yours, and they can't search you or your belongings against your will; unless they wish to make an allegation that they saw you steal something, in which case they can tell that to a police officer.
Dylan16807 7y ago
Some warehouse stores may treat you that way, making you prove innocence with your receipt. But don't take it as given that this will happen. The Sam's I've been to spends about 2-3 seconds 'checking' receipts. They are very clearly just acting as greeters, not inquisitors.

glitcher 7y ago

I think it's not uncommon for people to forget to close their tab at bars and accidentally walk out without their card. I feel just fine with handing over my card upon opening a tab.

jdnenej 7y ago
This always catches me out. Places where you don't pay first are an exception so whenever I go to one that doesnt I always find my self walking to the door until I remember "oh wait, I haven't paid yet"
- archi42 7y ago
  I think that really depends on where you live. Here it is basically the other way around, you order, you drink, order some more, and before leaving you pay the bill, with the bartender keeping a tab of what you ordered (these days with a mobile POS). The only "regular" exception is when they're about to close the place, then they often ask you to pay on delivery. Except the "our card reader is broken, we can only accept cash"-surprise, I can only remember three occasions this actually caused some hurdle for me in the past decade-and-a-half.
noobiemcfoob 7y ago
Many bars will have a default policy for unclosed tabs. My local bar assumes a 10% gratuity and calls it a day, so walk out as you please. Though it's the type of place where the bartenders notice 20+% tips and will serve you significantly better for it.

angry_octet 7y ago

This will hopefully go away as soon as the US moves away from antique payment systems with huge interchange fees. In other countries you just tap on the terminal to pay (either MC/VISA/Apple/local EFT system) and it completes in real time. The idea that I would give my credit card digits (and CCV!) to a bartender for safe keeping is almost physically painful. I'm the one thinking they are the criminal (and not without justification given the rate of card fraud). I don't let restaurant servers walk away with my card now. (And split bills should be automatic, they just don't do it because they get bigger tips that way.) Where are the book stores that ask you to leave your bag? Except for teens maybe it seems weird.

clinta 7y ago
I've never had a problem with service staff splitting bills in America. I've heard it's a problem in Europe, but then again I've also heard that tipping is not commonplace there.
- angry_octet 7y ago
  IME split bills are super easy in France/Italy/Switzerland, the waiter brings their EFT machine to the table and tap tap tap all done. An no, you don't tip in Europe, even spare change, but the quality of service is more dependent on labour market conditions and choice of restaurant (i.e. wages are very high in CH and staff are hard to come by). Bill splitting is a major pain in Australia and I've done the whole yelp outrage thing after rude staff have refused to split the bill (when we said at the beginning!). I much prefer Denmark, where the bill is always split, and you have to take someone's bill to pay for them. See also: a year of living danishly https://www.amazon.co.uk/Year-Living-Danishly-Uncovering-Happiest-ebook/dp/B00Q8SR5L0 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Year-Living-Danishly-Uncovering-Hap...
  - NanoCoaster 7y ago
    > An no, you don't tip in Europe, even spare change Highly dependent on the region. In Germany and Austria [the only countries that I'm sure about :)], you're not as expected to tip as in the US for example, but it's still customary to do so. If your service was bad, you don't tip. If it was okay, you may or may not tip a small amount. If it was great, yes, absolutely, you do tip. > i.e. wages are very high in CH That's probably because wages in CH are very high in general. Kind of evens out, seeing as the cost of living is equally high compared to most other countries in central Europe.