4 ms·

This is one of those instances where playing chicken seems to have worked out (for the US). Good news on this issue; although I'd feel more comfortable if ther

This is one of those instances where playing chicken seems to have worked out (for the US). Good news on this issue; although I'd feel more comfortable if there were fewer geopolitical games of chicken going on; it just takes one crash to wipe away the wins.

the_duke 7y ago
This was definitely a case of the US strong-arming the rest of the world, but in this case I think it was justified. I hope European countries follow suit and stop subsidizing foreign mail. It's absurd that we can order something on AliExpress, have it shipped halfway around the world, and pay 1 Dollar.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > This was definitely a case of the US strong-arming the rest of the world, but in this case I think it was justified. What's the difference between "strong-arm" and "negotiating?"
  - opportune 7y ago
    Strong arming is just negotiating with an advantage
- _delirium 7y ago
  European countries mostly discourage this not through postal rates, but by applying VAT and customs charges even on small-scale individual importation. How uniformly this is done varies by country (some inspect and enforce more aggressively than others). In Denmark, for example, which is one of the more aggressive, you either need to have your package pre-cleared by arranging duties/VAT to be paid ahead of time, or the Danish post office will charge you a flat 160 DKK (about $23) for clearing it [1]. That makes it not cost-effective to order $20 items from China, even if the UPU rates are low. [1] https://www.postnord.dk/modtag/spoergsmaal-og-svar https://www.postnord.dk/modtag/spoergsmaal-og-svar
  - jfk13 7y ago
    In the UK, consignments valued at £15 or less are free from Customs Duty and import VAT, so that doesn't do much to discourage small-scale individual purchases from China.
    - AnssiH 7y ago
      That exemption will be terminated EU-wide on Jan 1st 2021. It will also get terminated immediately in UK if they leave without a deal, at least according to current UK government VAT guidance.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    That fee is insulting. And if that kind of thing starts being applied consistently across large enough areas, I'm sure retailers will manage to fill out the paperwork and maybe increase prices 15 cents to compensate.
    - wodenokoto 7y ago
      Amazon US at one point offered insurance against this. Basically they would sent you your items and hope it would not get caught in customs. If it did, they would pay. You don't see that many sites offering this anymore, but the rare wish.com competitor will have the option.
- nitwit005 7y ago
  I'm sure they got a deal because of the size of the US economy, but walking away from a voluntary agreement hardly seems like "strong arming".
- erichocean 7y ago
  > It's absurd that we can order something on AliExpress, have it shipped halfway around the world, and pay 1 Dollar Especially if you care about the environment.
  - pravda 7y ago
    So, you think that getting into your car, driving to a retail location, paying $7.95 for that $1 item, and then driving back home is better for the environment? Well, maybe in a Telsa.
    - dirtyid 7y ago
      I suspect every dollar you contribute to a high-consumption 1st world economy is inherently going to be worse for the environment than sending it a developing country. Like that vegan / grassfed / murican made premium is going to fund someone's conspicuous consumption, versus spent on more basic needs in developing countries. And in case of China, with incredibly high savings rate, it's just going to the bank.
      - erichocean 7y ago
        China is the largest polluter of the planet, and it's not even close. And it's not because they're poor, it's that culturally, they don't seem to give a shit. The higher their standard of living becomes, the more they pollute. Maybe, someday, they'll change. I hope so. For now, though, the only countries that care about the environment enough to pass laws preventing its destruction are in the West. People who care about the environment should spend their money accordingly.
        pravda 7y ago
        Is that on a per capita basis? Because it is not really fair if it is not. Also, the Chinese might argue that the West outsources their industrial pollution to China.
        dirtyid 7y ago

the_duke 7y ago

This was definitely a case of the US strong-arming the rest of the world, but in this case I think it was justified. I hope European countries follow suit and stop subsidizing foreign mail. It's absurd that we can order something on AliExpress, have it shipped halfway around the world, and pay 1 Dollar.

mieseratte 7y ago
> This was definitely a case of the US strong-arming the rest of the world, but in this case I think it was justified. What's the difference between "strong-arm" and "negotiating?"
- opportune 7y ago
  Strong arming is just negotiating with an advantage
_delirium 7y ago
European countries mostly discourage this not through postal rates, but by applying VAT and customs charges even on small-scale individual importation. How uniformly this is done varies by country (some inspect and enforce more aggressively than others). In Denmark, for example, which is one of the more aggressive, you either need to have your package pre-cleared by arranging duties/VAT to be paid ahead of time, or the Danish post office will charge you a flat 160 DKK (about $23) for clearing it [1]. That makes it not cost-effective to order $20 items from China, even if the UPU rates are low. [1] https://www.postnord.dk/modtag/spoergsmaal-og-svar https://www.postnord.dk/modtag/spoergsmaal-og-svar
- jfk13 7y ago
  In the UK, consignments valued at £15 or less are free from Customs Duty and import VAT, so that doesn't do much to discourage small-scale individual purchases from China.
  - AnssiH 7y ago
    That exemption will be terminated EU-wide on Jan 1st 2021. It will also get terminated immediately in UK if they leave without a deal, at least according to current UK government VAT guidance.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  That fee is insulting. And if that kind of thing starts being applied consistently across large enough areas, I'm sure retailers will manage to fill out the paperwork and maybe increase prices 15 cents to compensate.
  - wodenokoto 7y ago
    Amazon US at one point offered insurance against this. Basically they would sent you your items and hope it would not get caught in customs. If it did, they would pay. You don't see that many sites offering this anymore, but the rare wish.com competitor will have the option.
nitwit005 7y ago
I'm sure they got a deal because of the size of the US economy, but walking away from a voluntary agreement hardly seems like "strong arming".
erichocean 7y ago
> It's absurd that we can order something on AliExpress, have it shipped halfway around the world, and pay 1 Dollar Especially if you care about the environment.
- pravda 7y ago
  So, you think that getting into your car, driving to a retail location, paying $7.95 for that $1 item, and then driving back home is better for the environment? Well, maybe in a Telsa.
  - dirtyid 7y ago
    I suspect every dollar you contribute to a high-consumption 1st world economy is inherently going to be worse for the environment than sending it a developing country. Like that vegan / grassfed / murican made premium is going to fund someone's conspicuous consumption, versus spent on more basic needs in developing countries. And in case of China, with incredibly high savings rate, it's just going to the bank.
    - erichocean 7y ago
      China is the largest polluter of the planet, and it's not even close. And it's not because they're poor, it's that culturally, they don't seem to give a shit. The higher their standard of living becomes, the more they pollute. Maybe, someday, they'll change. I hope so. For now, though, the only countries that care about the environment enough to pass laws preventing its destruction are in the West. People who care about the environment should spend their money accordingly.
      - pravda 7y ago
        Is that on a per capita basis? Because it is not really fair if it is not. Also, the Chinese might argue that the West outsources their industrial pollution to China.
      - dirtyid 7y ago