8 ms·

Mont Blanc: Glacier in danger of collapse, experts warn

75 points by blue_devil 7y ago

melling 7y ago
This isn’t HN. There’s nothing to discuss and it doesn’t meet the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html “ Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.” We should probably include climate change specifically. In other news, there’s evidence that climate activism could be swaying public opinion in the US: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21059853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21059853
doitLP 7y ago
On the bright side, maybe we’ll find more Ötzi’s!
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  That’s actually a very good point. Given that the glaciers are in retreat and permafrost that has been stable for at least thousands of years is melting, are there any coordinated efforts to seek out, document, and preserve the archaeological and paleontological discoveries that are no doubt being exposed to the air for the first time in modern history?
  - blue_devil 7y ago
    The discoveries are not always so romantically ancient. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10562017/Melting-glaciers-in-northern-Italy-reveal-corpses-of-WW1-soldiers.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10562017/M...
dvdhnt 7y ago
As of now, posted four hours ago and only one comment. For a community that prides itself on disruption and global impact, HN sure is quiet on solutions.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  Where are these expectations coming from?
- perfunctory 7y ago
  Maybe because solutions that are actually required are not in the area of expertise of the HN crowd.
  - benologist 7y ago
    HN doesn't have answers because individually most of us have particularly massive carbon footprints that we're busy ignoring. Every computer, monitor, phone and peripheral carried a huge environmental cost to extract the resources and manufacture the goods. If you have a few laptops and desktops and some old phones and a wall of records your carbon footprint is a crater. In the last 6 years a lot of Apple users weren't inspired by the newer laptops and just clung to their old hardware for an unprecedented amount of time. This is how we can help but it's just not what we want!
    - imtringued 7y ago
      Compared to the environmental impact of transportation those environmental costs are absolutely negligible.
      - benologist 7y ago
        This data is from Apple last year. It simply is not negligible and they're one of the few trying to improve their processes. https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/notebooks/13-inch_MacBookPro_PER_June2019.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/notebooks/13-... 13-inch MacBook Pro = 210 kg carbon emissions, 77% during manufacturing and just 16% for transport https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/desktops/iMac_Pro_PER_June2019.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/desktops/iMac... iMac Pro = 1468 kg carbon emissions, about 1/2 during manufacturing and just 4% for transport
exergy 7y ago
It's depressing. I recently finished a hike from Chamonix to Zermatt, which passes near a ton of glaciers in the Pennine Alps. They are all dying. Moraines exposed everywhere. What is supposed to be a glorious celebration of the beauty of the Alps turns instead into sombre contemplation of whether the next generation will ever know such beauty. Mer de Glace, near Chamonix, is a particularly tragicomic example because the authorities need to add more and more steps each year in order to take the tourists down to the glacier. It's receding that fast.
- short_sells_poo 7y ago
  At risk of prodding at a hornets' nest here, I'd like to raise a controversial question: Mostly everyone here agrees (including myself), that human contribution to global warming is going to have severe consequences and the rapid impact on glaciers is an early and visible symptom of this problem. However, I think most people also agree that the planet would be warming even without human involvement (albeit at a considerably slower pace). I don't know whether the glaciers would melt also during the natural warming of the planet, but I assume so given that there were periods in the geological history when it was much warmer in general and were no glaciers at these latitudes. Yes it is sad that in one or two generations the glaciers will be gone, but glaciers will come back when the next ice age comes around. On the other hand, there are living organisms which could likely survive the natural and more gradual warming, but will be driven to extinction by specifically the human contribution. These species are not coming back, ever. Certainly not naturally. So perhaps rather than ruminating about whether the next generation can look at large amounts of ice, we should concentrate on saving the parts of the ecosystem which once lost, cannot be recovered.
  - kiliantics 7y ago
    the rapid melting of that ice is going to have some pretty large impacts on local eco systems, I don't think the issues are all that separable
  - cameldrv 7y ago
    Would the planet be warming without human involvement? I'm not aware that this is a widely held scientific belief. I don't think anyone's "ruminating." As the great Howard Beale said: "I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first, you've got to get mad!" The Alps around Mt. Blanc are one of the most beautiful places in the world, and I'll probably cry next time I go back.
gdubs 7y ago
The thing I always think of when seeing coverage of disappearing glaciers is all of the places that rely on them for clean water. [1] 1: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/17/climate/melting-glaciers-globally.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/17/climate/melti...
- blue_devil 7y ago
  And energy. Hydro-power generation is big in mountainous areas.
Histrionic 7y ago
The best thing I could do is to book a flight over to Europe so I can see it before it's gone forever.

75 points by blue_devil 7y ago

This isn’t HN. There’s nothing to discuss and it doesn’t meet the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html “ Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.” We should probably include climate change specifically. In other news, there’s evidence that climate activism could be swaying public opinion in the US: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21059853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21059853

doitLP 7y ago

On the bright side, maybe we’ll find more Ötzi’s!

LyndsySimon 7y ago
That’s actually a very good point. Given that the glaciers are in retreat and permafrost that has been stable for at least thousands of years is melting, are there any coordinated efforts to seek out, document, and preserve the archaeological and paleontological discoveries that are no doubt being exposed to the air for the first time in modern history?
- blue_devil 7y ago
  The discoveries are not always so romantically ancient. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10562017/Melting-glaciers-in-northern-Italy-reveal-corpses-of-WW1-soldiers.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10562017/M...

dvdhnt 7y ago

As of now, posted four hours ago and only one comment. For a community that prides itself on disruption and global impact, HN sure is quiet on solutions.

BubRoss 7y ago
Where are these expectations coming from?
perfunctory 7y ago
Maybe because solutions that are actually required are not in the area of expertise of the HN crowd.
- benologist 7y ago
  HN doesn't have answers because individually most of us have particularly massive carbon footprints that we're busy ignoring. Every computer, monitor, phone and peripheral carried a huge environmental cost to extract the resources and manufacture the goods. If you have a few laptops and desktops and some old phones and a wall of records your carbon footprint is a crater. In the last 6 years a lot of Apple users weren't inspired by the newer laptops and just clung to their old hardware for an unprecedented amount of time. This is how we can help but it's just not what we want!
  - imtringued 7y ago
    Compared to the environmental impact of transportation those environmental costs are absolutely negligible.
    - benologist 7y ago
      This data is from Apple last year. It simply is not negligible and they're one of the few trying to improve their processes. https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/notebooks/13-inch_MacBookPro_PER_June2019.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/notebooks/13-... 13-inch MacBook Pro = 210 kg carbon emissions, 77% during manufacturing and just 16% for transport https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/desktops/iMac_Pro_PER_June2019.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/desktops/iMac... iMac Pro = 1468 kg carbon emissions, about 1/2 during manufacturing and just 4% for transport

exergy 7y ago

It's depressing. I recently finished a hike from Chamonix to Zermatt, which passes near a ton of glaciers in the Pennine Alps. They are all dying. Moraines exposed everywhere. What is supposed to be a glorious celebration of the beauty of the Alps turns instead into sombre contemplation of whether the next generation will ever know such beauty. Mer de Glace, near Chamonix, is a particularly tragicomic example because the authorities need to add more and more steps each year in order to take the tourists down to the glacier. It's receding that fast.

short_sells_poo 7y ago
At risk of prodding at a hornets' nest here, I'd like to raise a controversial question: Mostly everyone here agrees (including myself), that human contribution to global warming is going to have severe consequences and the rapid impact on glaciers is an early and visible symptom of this problem. However, I think most people also agree that the planet would be warming even without human involvement (albeit at a considerably slower pace). I don't know whether the glaciers would melt also during the natural warming of the planet, but I assume so given that there were periods in the geological history when it was much warmer in general and were no glaciers at these latitudes. Yes it is sad that in one or two generations the glaciers will be gone, but glaciers will come back when the next ice age comes around. On the other hand, there are living organisms which could likely survive the natural and more gradual warming, but will be driven to extinction by specifically the human contribution. These species are not coming back, ever. Certainly not naturally. So perhaps rather than ruminating about whether the next generation can look at large amounts of ice, we should concentrate on saving the parts of the ecosystem which once lost, cannot be recovered.
- kiliantics 7y ago
  the rapid melting of that ice is going to have some pretty large impacts on local eco systems, I don't think the issues are all that separable
- cameldrv 7y ago
  Would the planet be warming without human involvement? I'm not aware that this is a widely held scientific belief. I don't think anyone's "ruminating." As the great Howard Beale said: "I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first, you've got to get mad!" The Alps around Mt. Blanc are one of the most beautiful places in the world, and I'll probably cry next time I go back.

gdubs 7y ago

The thing I always think of when seeing coverage of disappearing glaciers is all of the places that rely on them for clean water. [1] 1: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/17/climate/melting-glaciers-globally.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/17/climate/melti...

blue_devil 7y ago
And energy. Hydro-power generation is big in mountainous areas.

Histrionic 7y ago

The best thing I could do is to book a flight over to Europe so I can see it before it's gone forever.