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While I understand the reticence towards thinness, I'm going to withhold judgment until I'm holding the new laptop. Thinness isn't just about aesthetic (althoug
by _hardwaregeek 7y ago
While I understand the reticence towards thinness, I'm going to withhold judgment until I'm holding the new laptop. Thinness isn't just about aesthetic (although that is an aspect that HN commenters severely underestimate). It's also about the act of physically using the device.
I know that going from a 2015 Macbook Pro to a 2017 one made a gigantic difference in how I used the device. The 2015 one I had to decide if I wanted to put in my backpack. It added a non significant weight to my bag and therefore my back. I wouldn't open it while standing or outside, simply because it wasn't comfortable to hold in one hand, or to type in a password.
The 2017 Macbook Pro, while flawed in many ways, is very different. I carry it everywhere without a thought. I can easily carry it open in one hand or closed like a book. I can pop it open for a second, type some stuff in while holding it, then put it back (TouchID is great for this too).
This may sound like Ive-esque purple prose, but truly, a lighter laptop lowers the barriers between the physical object and what I want to accomplish. I don't have to think about the physical weight of the laptop. I can just bring it. I don't have to think about putting the laptop down and using it. I can just palm it.
- krasin 7y agoI agree with your point, but I also agree with the parent comment. Thinner != lighter. It's totally legit to have a not-so-thin laptop that gets lighter every year, but preserves the most important ports.
- doomlaser 7y agoAs a counterpoint, I was issued the maxed out 2018 model for work, and I do not like the design. I only used it on a laptop stand, plugged into big external monitors, and with an external keyboard and mouse. Not having a tactile escape key is a poor decision, as is the choice to ditch the inverted-T cursor keys, just to make the keyboard look more symmetrical. Both seem like steps backwards in usability — both being harder to navigate by feel. 2018: http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/macbook-pro-touch-bar-everything-8.png http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/macboo... Prior: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/9136/MBA_Keyboard_575px.jpg https://images.anandtech.com/doci/9136/MBA_Keyboard_575px.jp...
- xmprt 7y agoSounds like you have a setup that works for you. If you're not planning on using it on the move then why does the keyboard matter to you?
- doomlaser 7y agoI carried it home with me every night, where I use my maxed out 2013 MacBook Pro without the displays or external keyboard. While thinner, the maxed out 2018 15" model is 4.02 lbs, whereas the maxed out 2013 15" is 4.46 pounds. To me, there isn't much difference in 'heft' between the two.
- chrisco255 7y agoThe weird thing is that they could have added the touchbar and kept a full function key row and still have plenty of room for a good sized touchpad. The current Macbook's touchpad is arguably too large.
- leetcrew 7y agocoming from the world of windows ultrabooks, it's sorta hard to imagine how a touchpad could be "too big". does the palm rejection suck, or is it just that you think the real estate could be used better for something else?
- naibafo 7y agoComing from the world of tiling window managers on linux, I do not use a touchpad at all. On the Macbook I have to use it occasionally, but I still stay on the keyboard as much as possible. So having to remap ESC to Capslock and often hitting the wrong arrow key is a much too big drawback to a bigger touchpad
- http-teapot 7y agoAs an example, both thumbs hovers the touchpad when my hands are on the keyboard. One of my thumb frequently taps and moves the cursor to another line all the while I am writing code. It's frustrating. Imo, the touchpad on Macbook has always been its greatest strength and they managed to ruin it.
- tigershark 7y agoMmm... just 200gr of difference (over 2kg) doesn’t seem enough to me to go from “I can’t use it at all standing” to “I easily carry it open in one hand”. What I’m missing?
- ryacko 7y agoThe musculature and size of the person holding it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- martin_a 7y agoThen those people should get out and train their bodies a little bit. Spoiled sissies. 200 grams. I wonder how people that do hard physical work are alive at the end of the day if some computer guy cries about 200 grams in their MacBook.
- tigershark 7y agoWhat kind of musculature and size is affected so much that goes from “impossible to use” to “perfect to use” for a difference of 10% (2 kg vs 1.8 kg)?
- hombre_fatal 7y agoTo be fair, their post finally made me realize that I'm outside of Apple's target demographic after all since I can do at least one pushup.
- lolsal 7y agoDoes attacking the assumed physique of a commenter really add anything useful to the discussion?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- systemtest 7y agoIt's the opposite for me. With my personal mid-2015 MacBook Pro I love to sit down and type on it for hours, creating great software and documentation. With the newer MacBooks I try to avoid long typing sessions or I have to mess with dongles and keyboards for a good typing experience. On a train an external keyboard is not an option so the newer MacBook stays in my bag. For portable use I'd rather throw a 12" MacBook in my bag.
- whywhywhywhy 7y agoEverything you describe is good but the problem is if these things come at the expense of one of the fundamental functions of the device then really it's a tradeoff that should ever have been made. (Had to edit repeated keypresses when typing this post due to the butterfly keyboard I wrote it on)
- jamesrcole 7y agoI have a 2018 MacBook air and have never had the repeated keypresses issue, so I imagine they've probably fixed that in the newer keyboard designs. That said, I don't like typing on the keyboard. It feels awkward.
- x0nine 7y agoI have the 2018 MacBook Pro and I occasionally have the double typed keys issue. Though it doesn't seem to happen as often as what I've read about previous versions of the keyboard.
- beatgammit 7y agoHonestly, I've never liked typing on any generation of Apple keyboard and much prefer the Thinkpad keyboard. In fact, that's the main thing I look for in a laptop these days, since most keyboards seem to be getting worse and worse (even the Lenovo keyboards are getting worse). I also hate that Lenovo are trying to join the "everything should be thin" crowd, especially seeing what it has done to Apple's keyboards. If you want thin, the MacBook Air or the Lenovo X1 models are there for you. If you want a more complete experience for working on for longer periods of time, the Thinkpad TXXX and MacBook (Pro) used to be what you go for, but those are condensing to look like the ultra thin models that it's becoming increasingly hard to justify the separation. Please Apple/Lenovo, leave the thicker models thick and focus efforts on the thinner models if you want to make something thinner. I just want a good keyboard on my laptop...
- whywhywhywhy 7y ago> so I imagine they've probably fixed that in the newer keyboard designs It's not they're all in the replacement program and the mechanism condom they added to the 2018 still has holes dust can get through unfortunately.
- seunosewa 7y agoYou've made a great argument for a lighter laptop. Your 2017 laptop is a whopping 36% thinner than your 2015 laptop but only 11% lighter. This modest difference in weight is mostly due to the reduced battery size that a more efficient chipset allows the newer laptop to have. The total weight of the 0.8mm thin ribbons of plastic and aluminium shaved off the plastic keys and edge of the aluminium case (the difference in key travel), is negligible compared to the weight of the laptop. Apple could have made a laptop that was within 1% of the weight of your 2017 laptop, had a normal keyboard with good travel, and was just about 0.8mm thicker.
- smolder 7y agoPursuing thinness at some point even comes at the expense of higher weight, to maintain adequate rigidity. I do feel the newest MBPs gave up too much for the sake of thinness already. (The keyboard is unpleasant to use, on top of being unreliable.) I wish Apple would be so bold as to Think Different here and prioritize usability.
- _hardwaregeek 7y agoThere’s the problem of feeling cheap however. If you make a laptop that’s thicker but lighter, you run the risk of having a laptop that feels weirdly light and cheap. Also thickness does matter! If you’re gripping a laptop in one hand, a thinner body is easier to hold. And it’s just plain beautiful. It feels futuristic. Which, yes, is nonsense. But it’s also how you make a product that people want.
- tspiteri 7y ago> If you’re gripping a laptop in one hand, a thinner body is easier to hold. Is it though? If you're trying to hold six closed laptops in the same hand, thinner might be better, but when holding one laptop in one hand, it's weight not thickness that matters.
- jtcruthers 7y agoHas the product not been thin enough to easily hold one handed for years? We're talking about shaving millimeters off a 1.5 cm thick product. Not inches off something a foot thick
- abledon 7y agoour rugged farming ancestors would be belly laughing at us complaining about the weight of a MacBook pro lol.
- codq 7y agoAnd in the opposite direction, our space-faring progeny of future physical and virtual galactic colonies squeal in delight by the notion of actually 'carrying' anything.
- supermatt 7y agoNot really. This is a common misconception. It is typical to go to the field with very little weight. Very light clothing, light (or often no) footwear. You typically will have a single tool for the job at hand (and whetstone where required). Maybe a woven basket with some lightweight sacks if you are collecting. Its hard enough work without carrying stuff.
- EpicEng 7y agoWell of course they did; they were busting their butts all day. I doubt they would have been bothered much by a one pound difference in a laptop though.
- supermatt 7y agoPeople still farm this way. Carrying an extra pound absolutely makes a difference. You can ask any athlete, or look up calorie expenditure charts for people carrying different weights if that more your thing.
- EpicEng 7y ago>You can ask any athlete I was a serious athlete for about fifteen years and still am casually. Of course it makes a difference; the question is how much. The answer is not much, especially when we're talking about relatively short distances (I don't think anyone commenting here is talking about carrying their laptop for a 30 mile hike), and I'd much prefer better battery life and the old keyboard.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- everdrive 7y agoSuch small barriers to use suggest that the question of using your laptop or not was similar to an impulse control problem. Such as, whether or not to have another snack cracker. It's right there, so why not have another.
- IanSanders 7y agoThere used to be two options, for both use cases. Now they just turned Pro into Air.