4 ms·

It took Tesla 16 years to become profitable, does Nio have enough cash to last another 12?

by Leary 7y ago

DSingularity 7y ago
Do you mean does China have enough cash?
- objektif 7y ago
  That is also questionable these days with trade wars and China slow down, not sure even the communist party is willing to fund such companies.
  - seppin 7y ago
    The entire Belt and Road is not profitable. Most of their "investments" are deep underwater with no signs of turning around.
    - contingencies 7y ago
      B&R is cheap and smart vs. US military expenditure.
      - seppin 7y ago
        US military expenditure buys weapons from US companies at market rates. B&R is a set of buyoffs and boondoggles that will never see any kind of return, and the political benefit is questionable. edit read your bio, so you're 100% bought in and ready to defend China in every way? How do you feel about their concentration camps? Not your problem?
        contingencies 7y ago
        Sigh. Straw man. Actually I'm a student of ancient history and have many concerns about China, but love living here as it's a fascinating place and a great environment for hardware technology development, macro-level progressive, plus if you place any credence in Musk a glimpse of the future. The point is, if you look at any long living empire, saber-rattling doesn't expand as fast or leave the same legacy as cultural expansion and integration. China's got the upper hand there. One should view B&R as a diplomatic move toward influence expansion. Whereas, I've read that US's stated goal is to be viewed as an irrational military actor as a 'force multiplier', with rapid global military strike capability. US imprisons a huge percentage of its population, China just shoot them. Neither are great options. Of course, if the world were to adopt a scientifically supported penal strategy of rehab like Scandinavia, we could be happy little capers on one big open sandwich. Then get eaten. I really think China is the future, very impressive. - Elon Musk (2019)
        seppin 7y ago
        Benefiting from a system of oppression that kills people isn't a straw man, it's the entire point. > US imprisons a huge percentage of its population, China just shoot them. I can't tell if this is moral equivalence or simply ignorance of what China is actually doing to its population. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude you think US prisons arresting non-violent drug offenders to 3 years in prison is the same as kidnapping/torturing and disappearing an entire ethnicity. I think you have come to that understanding by knowing you depend on the status quo in China for your own personal wealth, not unlike many Han Chinese. And that makes me sad. > I really think China is the future, very impressive. - Elon Musk (2019) This means nothing, every large investor kisses up to the gatekeepers of a growing market. Every single one.
        dang 7y ago
        Personal attacks, which you leapt into there, are not allowed on HN. Please don't post like this again. Please don't break this guideline either: "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        seppin 7y ago
        Hello dang, bringing up CCP concentration camps on a public forum is not flame bait, unless you are trying to hide their existence on an American website. However there was an antagonistic tone which I won't repeat.
        dang 7y ago
        It certainly is flamebait when you bring in an inflammatory and divisive topic into a thread like that. Doubly so after trawling through another account's history in order to find something to attack them with. Please don't do these things in HN threads again.
        seppin 7y ago
        > divisive topic The only way Chinese concentration camps are "divisive" is if there are many people who are very pro Chinese concentration camps, and are offended when I refer to them in a negative way. Or, I shouldn't be discussing them at all. Is that what you found to be inflammatory? Bringing up something that is happening? I already apologized for an antagonistic tone, I won't for pointing out documented history.
blang 7y ago
Is it profitable?
- jurmous 7y ago
  Not yet.. https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-696a7c517959 https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-69...
  - chollida1 7y ago
    > yes https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-69.. https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-69.... from your link > GAAP operating loss of $167M, GAAP net loss of $408M, including $117M of restructuring and other charges So, no they aren't profitable
  - IshKebab 7y ago
    > Yes. Cash flow is not profit.
  - kosievdmerwe 7y ago
    In what sense is Tesla profitable? They've had a few profitable quarters, but no profitable year yet. The graph on the first page is free cash flow and deliveries not profits. For fun, I looked at the quarterly net incomes[1] and the profits from the profitable quarters were wiped out in the very next quarter. Heck, 2019Q1 wiped out all profits on its own. [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/net-inc...
- WhompingWindows 7y ago
  Profitability judged at any moment in time, difficult to say. They've had a couple profitable quarters, and mostly losses in quarters. Then again, those losses are largely attributed to expanding manufacturing and tech, which presumably could fuel greater profits down the line. At the end of the day, if we get serious about climate, Tesla is the #1 BEV company that's well positioned to actually reap the rewards of green consumers and green regulations.

It took Tesla 16 years to become profitable, does Nio have enough cash to last another 12?

by Leary 7y ago

It took Tesla 16 years to become profitable, does Nio have enough cash to last another 12?

DSingularity 7y ago

Do you mean does China have enough cash?

objektif 7y ago
That is also questionable these days with trade wars and China slow down, not sure even the communist party is willing to fund such companies.
- seppin 7y ago
  The entire Belt and Road is not profitable. Most of their "investments" are deep underwater with no signs of turning around.
  - contingencies 7y ago
    B&R is cheap and smart vs. US military expenditure.
    - seppin 7y ago
      US military expenditure buys weapons from US companies at market rates. B&R is a set of buyoffs and boondoggles that will never see any kind of return, and the political benefit is questionable. edit read your bio, so you're 100% bought in and ready to defend China in every way? How do you feel about their concentration camps? Not your problem?
      - contingencies 7y ago
        Sigh. Straw man. Actually I'm a student of ancient history and have many concerns about China, but love living here as it's a fascinating place and a great environment for hardware technology development, macro-level progressive, plus if you place any credence in Musk a glimpse of the future. The point is, if you look at any long living empire, saber-rattling doesn't expand as fast or leave the same legacy as cultural expansion and integration. China's got the upper hand there. One should view B&R as a diplomatic move toward influence expansion. Whereas, I've read that US's stated goal is to be viewed as an irrational military actor as a 'force multiplier', with rapid global military strike capability. US imprisons a huge percentage of its population, China just shoot them. Neither are great options. Of course, if the world were to adopt a scientifically supported penal strategy of rehab like Scandinavia, we could be happy little capers on one big open sandwich. Then get eaten. I really think China is the future, very impressive. - Elon Musk (2019)
        seppin 7y ago
        Benefiting from a system of oppression that kills people isn't a straw man, it's the entire point. > US imprisons a huge percentage of its population, China just shoot them. I can't tell if this is moral equivalence or simply ignorance of what China is actually doing to its population. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude you think US prisons arresting non-violent drug offenders to 3 years in prison is the same as kidnapping/torturing and disappearing an entire ethnicity. I think you have come to that understanding by knowing you depend on the status quo in China for your own personal wealth, not unlike many Han Chinese. And that makes me sad. > I really think China is the future, very impressive. - Elon Musk (2019) This means nothing, every large investor kisses up to the gatekeepers of a growing market. Every single one.
      - dang 7y ago
        Personal attacks, which you leapt into there, are not allowed on HN. Please don't post like this again. Please don't break this guideline either: "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        seppin 7y ago
        Hello dang, bringing up CCP concentration camps on a public forum is not flame bait, unless you are trying to hide their existence on an American website. However there was an antagonistic tone which I won't repeat.
        dang 7y ago
        It certainly is flamebait when you bring in an inflammatory and divisive topic into a thread like that. Doubly so after trawling through another account's history in order to find something to attack them with. Please don't do these things in HN threads again.
        seppin 7y ago
        > divisive topic The only way Chinese concentration camps are "divisive" is if there are many people who are very pro Chinese concentration camps, and are offended when I refer to them in a negative way. Or, I shouldn't be discussing them at all. Is that what you found to be inflammatory? Bringing up something that is happening? I already apologized for an antagonistic tone, I won't for pointing out documented history.

blang 7y ago

Is it profitable?

jurmous 7y ago
Not yet.. https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-696a7c517959 https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-69...
- chollida1 7y ago
  > yes https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-69.. https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1e70a30c-20a7-48b3-a1f6-69.... from your link > GAAP operating loss of $167M, GAAP net loss of $408M, including $117M of restructuring and other charges So, no they aren't profitable
- IshKebab 7y ago
  > Yes. Cash flow is not profit.
- kosievdmerwe 7y ago
  In what sense is Tesla profitable? They've had a few profitable quarters, but no profitable year yet. The graph on the first page is free cash flow and deliveries not profits. For fun, I looked at the quarterly net incomes[1] and the profits from the profitable quarters were wiped out in the very next quarter. Heck, 2019Q1 wiped out all profits on its own. [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/net-inc...
WhompingWindows 7y ago
Profitability judged at any moment in time, difficult to say. They've had a couple profitable quarters, and mostly losses in quarters. Then again, those losses are largely attributed to expanding manufacturing and tech, which presumably could fuel greater profits down the line. At the end of the day, if we get serious about climate, Tesla is the #1 BEV company that's well positioned to actually reap the rewards of green consumers and green regulations.