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Regardless of whatever side you are on, you have to admit that we're currently living in extraordinary times in UK politics. A decade ago, the kind of things w

Regardless of whatever side you are on, you have to admit that we're currently living in extraordinary times in UK politics. A decade ago, the kind of things we've seen over the last 3-4 years would have been borderline unthinkable. If this were all a TV show, people would've called it too far-fetched or too distant from reality. Whatever happens - there will be enough content to create movies, whole modules for university classes, and a dozen or so questions for pub quizzes. As for Boris - imagine being the first Prime Minister in British History to be found guilty of misleading the monarchy. Now, imagine going through a shattering defeat in court, while STILL being far ahead in the polls.

metalliqaz 7y ago
> Whatever happens - there will be enough content to create movies, whole modules for university classes, and a dozen or so questions for pub quizzes. That's what we say now, because we're used to the way it was. We need to start preparing ourselves for the possibility that these changes are permanent. The current clown show in the USA will become essentially permanent if 45 is re-elected. Even if he isn't his party has changed forever and the decorum of the presidency has been tarnished beyond the possibility of any quick repair. Likewise, I expect, in the UK... especially if a no-deal brexit comes to pass.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  > Likewise, I expect, in the UK... especially if a no-deal brexit comes to pass. If so, it will be because of the hysterical, elitist clinging to the EU, rather than the act of leaving itself. It may come as a surprise to you, but the UK was once a country, rather than a province of Guy's European Empire; and it worked out fine.
  - disgruntledphd2 7y ago
    Parliament voted in favour of every EU treaty. As someone from a country which was in fact made a province of another country (by an act of Parliament, no less), I find your conception of the legal relationship between the UK and the EU somewhat concerning.
  - joefourier 7y ago
    "It worked out fine" is rather debatable. During the 60s and 70s, prior to European integration, the United Kingdom was called the Sick Man of Europe with good reason. The Winter of Discontent, the Three-Day Week and the $3.9 billion loan/bailout from the IMF in the 70s were certainly not indicators of a healthy economy.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    > it worked out fine. If for "worked out fine" you intend "self-destructed", yeah, it did. UK is dead! Ireland will stay in EU, Scotland will vote to stay in EU, even London is looking for a way to stay in EU, what's left?
    - avs733 7y ago
      One group's self confidence in their superiority and individuality
mytailorisrich 7y ago
> while STILL being far ahead in the polls. This is because of the appalling state of Labour, which is currently controlled by actual communists. People are not stupid. Labour's current policies would be far worse than Brexit. With a 'normal', half-decent opposition the Tories would have been overthrown years ago.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  > Labour's current policies would be far worse than Brexit. Is that so? From the notoriously left-wing Telegraph a couple of weeks ago: "Corbyn better than no-deal Brexit, say investment banks" course they had to add "as anti-capitalist Labour wins unlikely new City fans" They try their best, bless 'em, to spin him as devil incarnate, but Citibank and Deutsche Bank sound unconvinced. The FT was much more open minded reporting the same news. Corbyn's and Labour's biggest problem is their refusal to take a side yet. "It depends" is hardly a vote winning stratagem. Had they made up their sodding mind, we might easily have had a Corbyn government by now. Most of their other policies sit well with the populace. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/09/03/corbyn-better-no-deal-brexit-say-investment-banks-anti-capitalist/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/09/03/corbyn-bette...
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    I wrote that the far left would be worse than Brexit. The only way businesses might think no deal Brexit (not just Brexit) would be worse is that they hope that a communist government would be quickly voted out of power or somehow prevented from doing what they say they would do. Of course with Corbyn we would get both Brexit and the far left. I.e. the worse of both worlds. Most people still prefer the Tories to that, as shown in the polls.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      If this Labour is communist (they're not), what on earth was Attlee's 1945 government, or pre-Blair Labour?
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Well you could take the view, as I heard expressed on World at One at lunchtime, that the British Constitution needs the odd attempt to take the piss to keep it on the rails. All those precedents, conventions and case law look so weak compared to a fully written constitution. Yet a written constitution can spawn no end of legal activity to decide the precise meaning of a comma. Whether the British Constitution's famous flexibility is a good thing will be argued for centuries to come, I suspect. > the kind of things we've seen over the last 3-4 years would have been borderline unthinkable Which you could say is the result of the last time someone decided to take the piss constitutionally. The chances of another PM being quite so cavalier in the next 20 years or so are slim to none. Regardless of what you wished to happen, there's no way Johnson's "cunning plan" worked out as intended, or with positive press resulting. > Boris - imagine being the first Prime Minister in British History to be found guilty of misleading the monarchy I think there's precedent, but before it was formally PM, but still just First Lord of the Treasury. Lord North possibly?

metalliqaz 7y ago

> Whatever happens - there will be enough content to create movies, whole modules for university classes, and a dozen or so questions for pub quizzes. That's what we say now, because we're used to the way it was. We need to start preparing ourselves for the possibility that these changes are permanent. The current clown show in the USA will become essentially permanent if 45 is re-elected. Even if he isn't his party has changed forever and the decorum of the presidency has been tarnished beyond the possibility of any quick repair. Likewise, I expect, in the UK... especially if a no-deal brexit comes to pass.

microcolonel 7y ago
> Likewise, I expect, in the UK... especially if a no-deal brexit comes to pass. If so, it will be because of the hysterical, elitist clinging to the EU, rather than the act of leaving itself. It may come as a surprise to you, but the UK was once a country, rather than a province of Guy's European Empire; and it worked out fine.
- disgruntledphd2 7y ago
  Parliament voted in favour of every EU treaty. As someone from a country which was in fact made a province of another country (by an act of Parliament, no less), I find your conception of the legal relationship between the UK and the EU somewhat concerning.
- joefourier 7y ago
  "It worked out fine" is rather debatable. During the 60s and 70s, prior to European integration, the United Kingdom was called the Sick Man of Europe with good reason. The Winter of Discontent, the Three-Day Week and the $3.9 billion loan/bailout from the IMF in the 70s were certainly not indicators of a healthy economy.
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  > it worked out fine. If for "worked out fine" you intend "self-destructed", yeah, it did. UK is dead! Ireland will stay in EU, Scotland will vote to stay in EU, even London is looking for a way to stay in EU, what's left?
  - avs733 7y ago
    One group's self confidence in their superiority and individuality

mytailorisrich 7y ago

> while STILL being far ahead in the polls. This is because of the appalling state of Labour, which is currently controlled by actual communists. People are not stupid. Labour's current policies would be far worse than Brexit. With a 'normal', half-decent opposition the Tories would have been overthrown years ago.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
> Labour's current policies would be far worse than Brexit. Is that so? From the notoriously left-wing Telegraph a couple of weeks ago: "Corbyn better than no-deal Brexit, say investment banks" course they had to add "as anti-capitalist Labour wins unlikely new City fans" They try their best, bless 'em, to spin him as devil incarnate, but Citibank and Deutsche Bank sound unconvinced. The FT was much more open minded reporting the same news. Corbyn's and Labour's biggest problem is their refusal to take a side yet. "It depends" is hardly a vote winning stratagem. Had they made up their sodding mind, we might easily have had a Corbyn government by now. Most of their other policies sit well with the populace. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/09/03/corbyn-better-no-deal-brexit-say-investment-banks-anti-capitalist/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/09/03/corbyn-bette...
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  I wrote that the far left would be worse than Brexit. The only way businesses might think no deal Brexit (not just Brexit) would be worse is that they hope that a communist government would be quickly voted out of power or somehow prevented from doing what they say they would do. Of course with Corbyn we would get both Brexit and the far left. I.e. the worse of both worlds. Most people still prefer the Tories to that, as shown in the polls.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    If this Labour is communist (they're not), what on earth was Attlee's 1945 government, or pre-Blair Labour?

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Well you could take the view, as I heard expressed on World at One at lunchtime, that the British Constitution needs the odd attempt to take the piss to keep it on the rails. All those precedents, conventions and case law look so weak compared to a fully written constitution. Yet a written constitution can spawn no end of legal activity to decide the precise meaning of a comma. Whether the British Constitution's famous flexibility is a good thing will be argued for centuries to come, I suspect. > the kind of things we've seen over the last 3-4 years would have been borderline unthinkable Which you could say is the result of the last time someone decided to take the piss constitutionally. The chances of another PM being quite so cavalier in the next 20 years or so are slim to none. Regardless of what you wished to happen, there's no way Johnson's "cunning plan" worked out as intended, or with positive press resulting. > Boris - imagine being the first Prime Minister in British History to be found guilty of misleading the monarchy I think there's precedent, but before it was formally PM, but still just First Lord of the Treasury. Lord North possibly?