7 ms·

Ok so this means...that there should be an election? This is exactly what should have been called weeks ago, yet there is resistance from Labour. Why?

mytailorisrich 7y ago
> yet there is resistance from Labour. Because Labour may not do well at all. Certainly it is very doubtful that they would get an outright majority. They are split on Brexit (London very pro-Remain, most Northern traditional Labour seats pro-Brexit) and they have been hijacked by effectively communists. This means is has been very hard for them to gather broad support. This is very visible in the polls where they only get lukewarm numbers.
pjc50 7y ago
Not automatically, no. There should be an election, but holding one while the Brexit deadline is still ticking is obviously insane, so that needs to be cancelled or extended first.
nicky0 7y ago
It just means parliament will be back in session. Only parliament itself can call an early election.
rvz 7y ago
> This is exactly what should have been called weeks ago, yet there is resistance from Labour. Well Labour and other party members abstained from a proposal from the prime minster to hold an election and it required 2/3 of MPs, but that never happened.
- celticninja 7y ago
  Because they wanted BoJo to get the extension first, an election without the extension has the same effect as prorogation,that is no-one at the helm on the 31st October so default is no deal Brexit.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    More pragmatically each party is trying to get the timing that would be the most in their interest. Labour is trying to get in power, first and foremost. Unfortunately (or fortunately) they are currently so left wing that they are scaring most moderates away.
buboard 7y ago
Nobody wants that throne. Theresa was no better. Jeremy is doing his best to stay away from the shitshow. A no-deal brexit seems like the sane thing to do. The economist M.Blyth has said that best: Jeremy doesnt want an election , he wants to watch the tories tear down themselves to pieces.
- celticninja 7y ago
  Do you mean insane?
  - buboard 7y ago
    sane. The individual deals can be negotiated over time. Repeatedly delaying it and expecting different outcome is the definition of insanity.
    - celticninja 7y ago
      Or you know, we have another referendum, with some clear choices. Stay or Leave If (Leave ==true) With deal or With no deal That way we get to make a proper decision,with what we have now and didn't have before the referendum, a much more informed electorate.
      - buboard 7y ago
        If (as it seems) brexit is still the prefered option, polls show the no-deal option is highly supported https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893
        celticninja 7y ago
        Brexit is the preferred option for some Tory MPs and for some of the electorate. The link you provided shows the largest group (44%) oppose leaving with No Deal.
celticninja 7y ago
What BoJo was trying to do was get no deal Brexit through a back door. Before an election the prime minister of the UK needs to request an extension to the deadline to allow the election to take place and a new party to take control and deal with the exit (or not) from the EU.
- growlist 7y ago
  We did not vote for BRINO, which is what all these 'deals' are about - keep us tightly enough tied to the EU so that we can be forced back in in 5-10 years. Don't try and pretend this isn't the case, we all know it.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    We're tied to the EU inherently through Ireland, which everyone keeps forgetting about. Sure, we can impose a border there, and perhaps people won't object that violently, but it won't go down well in the NI reunification referendum.
    - jamiegreen 7y ago
      I am not sure anyone is forgetting about Ireland seeing as the media and the EU bring it up every five minutes
      - disgruntledphd2 7y ago
        Certainly not the Irish :) Just to note, when I was a child (actually almost until I was an adult) people were killing each other in Ireland, the UK and Northern Ireland every single week. We all got together, and that's been over for almost twenty years, because we pretended there was/wasn't a border so the pro-UK people could pretend it was there, and the pro-Ireland people could pretend it wasn't. Somewhat crazily, this actually worked. Unfortunately, Brexit (especially a hard one) necessitates a border. If there is a border in Northern Ireland, there will be violence, along with lots and lots of small businesses going to the wall, along with British troops back in Ireland and smuggling. It's basically a disaster, and while the British people have the right to leave the EU, and rule the waves again, te Irish people also have a right to not start violence in Northern Ireland again. Hence the backstop - it's not an attempt to trap the UK in the EU (although we are very, very sorry you're leaving), it's an attempt to prevent the return of violence on the island of Ireland.
empath75 7y ago
Because the currently legitimately elected parliament would like to be able to pass laws about an eminent major change to the UK’s status. If they have an election, there will be no parliament in session to act until there is a hard brexit.
gadders 7y ago
Labour are resistant to an election as they know they won't win.
- rvz 7y ago
  Labour and other party members knew this was a trap. But the real reason they abstained is they wanted to truly rule out a no-deal brexit plan and also to further scrutinize the government. Boris is now forced to ask Brussels for an extension due to parliament taking over the brexit process. Only then a general election can happen.
billpg 7y ago
Current members of parliament were elected by the people in 2017 for a five year term. They should stay until 2022.
- pjc50 7y ago
  It's the fixed-term Parliament Act that got us into this mess. Under normal circumstances May's deal would have been put to a confidence vote then either accepted or yet another GE called in order to replace the government with a functioning one. The government has a minority of something like -40. This cannot function for long.
  - benj111 7y ago
    I'm not sure that criticism is entirely valid. It isn't like the last election gave anyone a resounding mandate. Plus do we want election after election fought on a single issue? It's torn the Tories apart, Labour isnt far behind, the Lib Dems aren't exactly endorsing a nuanced set of policies. We're going to have a 2nd referendum at some point, personally I'd like it to come before an election so parliament can get back to some kind of normalcy, which I don't think will be helped by a parliament full of MPs selected purely on the basis of their views on one issue.
frobozz 7y ago
Two reasons: One is as others have said. Election now would make a no-deal crashout more likely. The other is that it was also deliberately timed to reduce participation in a largely non-tory demographic. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/general-election-date-aimed-to-restrict-student-vote-boris-johnson-aides-admit-g7zh5s7td https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/general-election-date-aim...

mytailorisrich 7y ago

> yet there is resistance from Labour. Because Labour may not do well at all. Certainly it is very doubtful that they would get an outright majority. They are split on Brexit (London very pro-Remain, most Northern traditional Labour seats pro-Brexit) and they have been hijacked by effectively communists. This means is has been very hard for them to gather broad support. This is very visible in the polls where they only get lukewarm numbers.

pjc50 7y ago

Not automatically, no. There should be an election, but holding one while the Brexit deadline is still ticking is obviously insane, so that needs to be cancelled or extended first.

nicky0 7y ago

It just means parliament will be back in session. Only parliament itself can call an early election.

rvz 7y ago

> This is exactly what should have been called weeks ago, yet there is resistance from Labour. Well Labour and other party members abstained from a proposal from the prime minster to hold an election and it required 2/3 of MPs, but that never happened.

celticninja 7y ago
Because they wanted BoJo to get the extension first, an election without the extension has the same effect as prorogation,that is no-one at the helm on the 31st October so default is no deal Brexit.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  More pragmatically each party is trying to get the timing that would be the most in their interest. Labour is trying to get in power, first and foremost. Unfortunately (or fortunately) they are currently so left wing that they are scaring most moderates away.

buboard 7y ago

Nobody wants that throne. Theresa was no better. Jeremy is doing his best to stay away from the shitshow. A no-deal brexit seems like the sane thing to do. The economist M.Blyth has said that best: Jeremy doesnt want an election , he wants to watch the tories tear down themselves to pieces.

celticninja 7y ago
Do you mean insane?
- buboard 7y ago
  sane. The individual deals can be negotiated over time. Repeatedly delaying it and expecting different outcome is the definition of insanity.
  - celticninja 7y ago
    Or you know, we have another referendum, with some clear choices. Stay or Leave If (Leave ==true) With deal or With no deal That way we get to make a proper decision,with what we have now and didn't have before the referendum, a much more informed electorate.
    - buboard 7y ago
      If (as it seems) brexit is still the prefered option, polls show the no-deal option is highly supported https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893
      - celticninja 7y ago
        Brexit is the preferred option for some Tory MPs and for some of the electorate. The link you provided shows the largest group (44%) oppose leaving with No Deal.

celticninja 7y ago

What BoJo was trying to do was get no deal Brexit through a back door. Before an election the prime minister of the UK needs to request an extension to the deadline to allow the election to take place and a new party to take control and deal with the exit (or not) from the EU.

growlist 7y ago
We did not vote for BRINO, which is what all these 'deals' are about - keep us tightly enough tied to the EU so that we can be forced back in in 5-10 years. Don't try and pretend this isn't the case, we all know it.
- pjc50 7y ago
  We're tied to the EU inherently through Ireland, which everyone keeps forgetting about. Sure, we can impose a border there, and perhaps people won't object that violently, but it won't go down well in the NI reunification referendum.
  - jamiegreen 7y ago
    I am not sure anyone is forgetting about Ireland seeing as the media and the EU bring it up every five minutes
    - disgruntledphd2 7y ago
      Certainly not the Irish :) Just to note, when I was a child (actually almost until I was an adult) people were killing each other in Ireland, the UK and Northern Ireland every single week. We all got together, and that's been over for almost twenty years, because we pretended there was/wasn't a border so the pro-UK people could pretend it was there, and the pro-Ireland people could pretend it wasn't. Somewhat crazily, this actually worked. Unfortunately, Brexit (especially a hard one) necessitates a border. If there is a border in Northern Ireland, there will be violence, along with lots and lots of small businesses going to the wall, along with British troops back in Ireland and smuggling. It's basically a disaster, and while the British people have the right to leave the EU, and rule the waves again, te Irish people also have a right to not start violence in Northern Ireland again. Hence the backstop - it's not an attempt to trap the UK in the EU (although we are very, very sorry you're leaving), it's an attempt to prevent the return of violence on the island of Ireland.

empath75 7y ago

Because the currently legitimately elected parliament would like to be able to pass laws about an eminent major change to the UK’s status. If they have an election, there will be no parliament in session to act until there is a hard brexit.

gadders 7y ago

Labour are resistant to an election as they know they won't win.

rvz 7y ago
Labour and other party members knew this was a trap. But the real reason they abstained is they wanted to truly rule out a no-deal brexit plan and also to further scrutinize the government. Boris is now forced to ask Brussels for an extension due to parliament taking over the brexit process. Only then a general election can happen.

billpg 7y ago

Current members of parliament were elected by the people in 2017 for a five year term. They should stay until 2022.

pjc50 7y ago
It's the fixed-term Parliament Act that got us into this mess. Under normal circumstances May's deal would have been put to a confidence vote then either accepted or yet another GE called in order to replace the government with a functioning one. The government has a minority of something like -40. This cannot function for long.
- benj111 7y ago
  I'm not sure that criticism is entirely valid. It isn't like the last election gave anyone a resounding mandate. Plus do we want election after election fought on a single issue? It's torn the Tories apart, Labour isnt far behind, the Lib Dems aren't exactly endorsing a nuanced set of policies. We're going to have a 2nd referendum at some point, personally I'd like it to come before an election so parliament can get back to some kind of normalcy, which I don't think will be helped by a parliament full of MPs selected purely on the basis of their views on one issue.

frobozz 7y ago

Two reasons: One is as others have said. Election now would make a no-deal crashout more likely. The other is that it was also deliberately timed to reduce participation in a largely non-tory demographic. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/general-election-date-aimed-to-restrict-student-vote-boris-johnson-aides-admit-g7zh5s7td https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/general-election-date-aim...