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If the political system in Chine does not collapse everyone should worry too. Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I re

by Iv 7y ago

If the political system in Chine does not collapse everyone should worry too. Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. I am of a boring old school of thought that thinks democracy is a pretty cool system and that it should be preserved. I really hope the Chinese political system collapses at one point. However we should not underestimate the reputation that has a system that tripled the average wage in the last 10 years. Also I would not trust Bloomberg much outside their field of expertise.

txdv 7y ago
> I am of a boring old school Like authatorian dictatorships are now super hip? :D
- cameldrv 7y ago
  That does seem to be the trend.
StreamBright 7y ago
The majority of recorded human history China was the #1 economic power though.
- Iv 7y ago
  And?
  - StreamBright 7y ago
    >> Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. For one, China has been the #1 economic power in the world longer than any other country. Second, they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. How many interventions the US committed in the last 70 years with the approval of the UN? This is exactly the difference between China vs the Western world. They do not force their views on you. This is why they are much more successful in Africa than any Western country ever will be. It is spelled out in the documentary "The Chinese are coming".
    - pizza234 7y ago
      > they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. I'm not sure if with "unlike" you imply that they [China] doesn't do it at all, or not as much as others [US]. In the first case, the argument is wrong. China is using economical leverage to impose its political agenda. See, for example: https://sentinel.tw/norway-one-china-policy https://sentinel.tw/norway-one-china-policy.
      - StreamBright 7y ago
        "The Norwegian government reiterates its commitment to the One China Policy, fully respects China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, attaches high importance to China’s core interests and major concerns, will not support actions that undermine them, and will do its best to avoid any future damage to the bilateral relations." I guess this is what you are referring to. It is called diplomacy. You apply diplomatic pressure on the other party until you reach a resolution. In this case Norway ok with One China. On the other end there is the rule of petro dollar and the US military in case you do not understand that you cannot question it. List of countries severely impacted[1]: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Russia This is what I meant by the differences between the Western world vs China. Maybe I was too vague. Here is the complete list of countries where the US committed some sort of intervention[2]. This includes shooting down airliner, invading countries without declaring war, financially supporting terrorist, supporting terrorists with arms, and so on. This is what I see the fundamental difference between China and the Western world (more specifically USA), Chinese are not trying to overthrow any government or support any terrorists, they want to do business. As somebody put it nicely: "China's business is business, USA's business is war" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare 2. https://www.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-interventions.html https://www.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-...
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      If you ware bringing China’s long history into this, China historically has fought many many wars with its neighbors (there is a reason Vietnam is so paranoid of china’s “70 years” of non intervention). China is hardly that successful in Africa yet, it just publicized the success it has had greatly and ignores all the riots and failed funding situations completely.
onion2k 7y ago
...I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. Western nations have plenty of authoritarianism already. It's just more insidious and under the surface. For example, here in the UK there are CCTV cameras everywhere[1]. They're all linked up so the police can remotely follow citizens around towns, along roads, down motorways, etc. Every bus and train has CCTV on it. Every shop has cameras. People are encouraged to have them in their houses. Whenever there are police documentaries on television they always have CCTV footage of crimes. We pretend that we're a free liberal democracy, but we're not really. I suspect the same is true for most first world countries. [1] I live in a small city in the North East of the UK - here's a portion of our traffic cameras https://api.newcastle.urbanobservatory.ac.uk/camera/ https://api.newcastle.urbanobservatory.ac.uk/camera/
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  > Western nations have plenty of authoritarianism already. It's just more insidious and under the surface. For example, here in the UK there are CCTV cameras everywhere[1]. True > They're all linked up so the police can remotely follow citizens around towns, along roads, down motorways, etc. Not true. The police need to ask individually every time they want CCTV footage from private businesses or get a warrant. They do not have convenient access to all CCTV. > Every bus and train has CCTV on it. Every shop has cameras. People are encouraged to have them in their houses. Whenever there are police documentaries on television they always have CCTV footage of crimes. And police documentaries don’t show the ones where they don’t have footage or where the criminals got away. If the UK was truly a panopticon there’s be far less crime. I’m not sure what their clearance rate is but people get away with murder in London so I doubt the average mugger has too much to fear from CCTV.
  - johnisgood 7y ago
    > I doubt the average mugger has too much to fear from CCTV. Not sure if you are claiming this, but this does not mean that surveillance is not rampant. You need more than CCTVs for criminals to fear them. Sometimes you do not even need CCTVs for criminals to fear the state.
- 7y ago

by Iv 7y ago

txdv 7y ago

> I am of a boring old school Like authatorian dictatorships are now super hip? :D

cameldrv 7y ago
That does seem to be the trend.

StreamBright 7y ago

The majority of recorded human history China was the #1 economic power though.

Iv 7y ago
And?
- StreamBright 7y ago
  >> Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. For one, China has been the #1 economic power in the world longer than any other country. Second, they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. How many interventions the US committed in the last 70 years with the approval of the UN? This is exactly the difference between China vs the Western world. They do not force their views on you. This is why they are much more successful in Africa than any Western country ever will be. It is spelled out in the documentary "The Chinese are coming".
  - pizza234 7y ago
    > they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. I'm not sure if with "unlike" you imply that they [China] doesn't do it at all, or not as much as others [US]. In the first case, the argument is wrong. China is using economical leverage to impose its political agenda. See, for example: https://sentinel.tw/norway-one-china-policy https://sentinel.tw/norway-one-china-policy.
    - StreamBright 7y ago
      "The Norwegian government reiterates its commitment to the One China Policy, fully respects China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, attaches high importance to China’s core interests and major concerns, will not support actions that undermine them, and will do its best to avoid any future damage to the bilateral relations." I guess this is what you are referring to. It is called diplomacy. You apply diplomatic pressure on the other party until you reach a resolution. In this case Norway ok with One China. On the other end there is the rule of petro dollar and the US military in case you do not understand that you cannot question it. List of countries severely impacted[1]: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Russia This is what I meant by the differences between the Western world vs China. Maybe I was too vague. Here is the complete list of countries where the US committed some sort of intervention[2]. This includes shooting down airliner, invading countries without declaring war, financially supporting terrorist, supporting terrorists with arms, and so on. This is what I see the fundamental difference between China and the Western world (more specifically USA), Chinese are not trying to overthrow any government or support any terrorists, they want to do business. As somebody put it nicely: "China's business is business, USA's business is war" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare 2. https://www.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-interventions.html https://www.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-...
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    If you ware bringing China’s long history into this, China historically has fought many many wars with its neighbors (there is a reason Vietnam is so paranoid of china’s “70 years” of non intervention). China is hardly that successful in Africa yet, it just publicized the success it has had greatly and ignores all the riots and failed funding situations completely.

onion2k 7y ago

...I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. Western nations have plenty of authoritarianism already. It's just more insidious and under the surface. For example, here in the UK there are CCTV cameras everywhere[1]. They're all linked up so the police can remotely follow citizens around towns, along roads, down motorways, etc. Every bus and train has CCTV on it. Every shop has cameras. People are encouraged to have them in their houses. Whenever there are police documentaries on television they always have CCTV footage of crimes. We pretend that we're a free liberal democracy, but we're not really. I suspect the same is true for most first world countries. [1] I live in a small city in the North East of the UK - here's a portion of our traffic cameras https://api.newcastle.urbanobservatory.ac.uk/camera/ https://api.newcastle.urbanobservatory.ac.uk/camera/

barry-cotter 7y ago
> Western nations have plenty of authoritarianism already. It's just more insidious and under the surface. For example, here in the UK there are CCTV cameras everywhere[1]. True > They're all linked up so the police can remotely follow citizens around towns, along roads, down motorways, etc. Not true. The police need to ask individually every time they want CCTV footage from private businesses or get a warrant. They do not have convenient access to all CCTV. > Every bus and train has CCTV on it. Every shop has cameras. People are encouraged to have them in their houses. Whenever there are police documentaries on television they always have CCTV footage of crimes. And police documentaries don’t show the ones where they don’t have footage or where the criminals got away. If the UK was truly a panopticon there’s be far less crime. I’m not sure what their clearance rate is but people get away with murder in London so I doubt the average mugger has too much to fear from CCTV.
- johnisgood 7y ago
  > I doubt the average mugger has too much to fear from CCTV. Not sure if you are claiming this, but this does not mean that surveillance is not rampant. You need more than CCTVs for criminals to fear them. Sometimes you do not even need CCTVs for criminals to fear the state.
7y ago