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Completely agree. I can’t figure it out though, they have some strict standards getting a license, red p’s for 12-24 months + 120 logbook hours, then green p’s

Completely agree. I can’t figure it out though, they have some strict standards getting a license, red p’s for 12-24 months + 120 logbook hours, then green p’s where they are restricted to dangerous below highway speeds so have drivers aggressively overtaking them. Despite this, standards seem far lower than Europe. The horn thing is really annoying, often the person being beeped can’t move forward anyway due to traffic across a junction and people are just being impatient but sometimes it’s the other way and people are just day dreaming at junctions when the light changeover is quick so you ha e to go. It seems car first. Cross a road in Europe a car a few hundred meters down the road will back off the accelerator slightly when they see you and let you cross. Australia they see a pedestrian and will speed up as it’s their road and the light is green, they’ll speed up to the point they are deliberately trying to hit you. Speed limits are annoying here. For such a big country it’s really difficult to travel big distance like you can in Europe or the US. Most people on the highway drive 100km/h as lots of police and the limit is 110. Also everyone will do 100km/h in the outside lane, inside lane doesn’t exist for most people as that’s where the p players are doing 90 and they are afraid of overtaking. It’s also odd as when you pass someone going well below the limit, a minute later they’ll aggressively speed up, fly past, then 5 minutes later they are slowed down and you are overtaking them again when you have kept a constant speed. I’ve found driving in Northern Africa and Asia far less frustrating than Australia and those countries are bit of a free for all, especially Ho Chi Minh. It’s easier in those countries as no one follows any rules and you know that, AU being 50/50 you just have no idea what drivers are going to do and makes it harder to judge.

therealx 7y ago
I found the same thing - in the chezh republic, it was a far more free for all than any other urbanized country I had been to, however things ran way smoother because you counted on everyone else following no rules.
drivingeve 7y ago
The difference between European and Australian drivers is not that Australians have to do 120 hours of supervised driving, but that the supervisor for the hours of driving in Australia is usually the parents of the learner. So any bad habbits from parents are taught between generations. Compare that to the European system where you are requiredto hire a professional driving instructor to teach you (at great expense I might add) for the entire time you are learning. And because of that, the culture in Australia seems to be that driving is a right where as Europeans seem to treat it as more of a privilege.
- jimmux 7y ago
  I got my license in Canberra, where I had the option to skip the driving test by doing enough hours with a qualified driving instructor. It was a big contrast to my previous struggles to get supervised drives with friends and family. I had picked up a habit of going much too fast around every corner, because the owner of the car I was practicing in insisted that it must be done that way. She did it because that's what her brother taught her. The real instructor got rid of that bad habit very quickly. It's a bit more expensive, but honestly it's so much quicker to get good and less stressful that I recommend it to anyone who has the option. People lie in the log book, too. So I don't believe many actually do the 120 hours they claim.
  - TheCalicoCat 7y ago
    I got my license the same way and 100% agree. It's a shame that Canberra is planning to move to the logbook system next year. I only know of one person from NSW who actually did the full 120 hours, and that was only because they took several road trips to other cities.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  With Aussie lifestyle designed around the car, it is definitely a right. Euro lifestyles can support cars as an option.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  I don't think that's true in UK. Just that insurance is so expensive that's it's far cheaper to get driving lessons.
DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago
I drive in Australia, and I'm not like what you have described. My general attitude is to be courteous. That doesn't mean I dont nip through on amber, or go over the speed limit by a couple kph, or park. However I do behave as I would want other to behave. I don't drive too close to cars in front. I zip feed always. I indicate, even if nobody is around. I treat bikes and bicycles like other cars. I defer to busses. I slow down and wave pedestrians across if it's safe. Just good manners really.
- jimmux 7y ago
  Courtesy makes all the difference, but it's not easy sometimes. Too many drivers are happy to take advantage of 2-second gaps, or use an early indication of lane change as a sign to beat you to a gap. I always wonder how people like that act outside vehicles. It's really no different to jumping a queue, but I bet of you did that to them outside a metal box they would call you out.
  - o-__-o 7y ago
    It really is different from jumping a queue, though. You have no means to call that person out. In a queue, you can appeal to the emotions of a clerk, attendent, or some other agent with power. Further, if no power agent exists or is sporadic enough that they virtually don't exist (like, say, police on the same roadway you describe) then the action of calling out devolves to simple game theory in which the best mode of action is to simply not participate. I challenge you to change your mindset: >take advantage of 2-second gaps that 2-second gap is simply a buffer. when buffers are filled do we call it 'being taken advantage of' or do we simply empty the buffer and continue our routine?
  - dwd 7y ago
    Inconsiderate drivers are the ones who need to be detected and sent back to driver training. They're the ones who try and pass when you're about to merge and leave you nowhere to go. I also find overly courteous drivers to be dangerous, particularly when they ignore right of way. There was a crossroad I had to go through daily that often had a long line of cars waiting because it crossed the offramp joining a major highway and a motorway. You would get idiots stopping to let cars go and actually causing accidents behind them because they caused the offramp to quickly congest out onto the highway. It got so frequently bad that an enterprising local stuck their own Do No Stop cardboard sign there.
fraudsyndrome 7y ago
> strict standards getting a license, red p’s for 12-24 months + 120 logbook hours It was an open secret (by secret I mean bragging) that people would forge their logbook hours - that hour rule only came in semi-recently so I'm not sure on the age of some posters here who haven't mentioned this. Either way, P plates statically have a high propensity to get into accidents although from experience alone I would not say the majority of these are the "aggressive" drivers you see on the street. Maybe it's my own bias but it feels like the majority of P platers are trying to drive safe because of their inexperience, it's the full licence drivers who believe they know best and start showing aggressive behaviours.
- hnick 7y ago
  It was 50 hours in NSW back when I did it ~20 years ago, and most people still forged it. It was mainly out of laziness though (not updating every time, just fill it in when you book the test).
why-oh-why 7y ago
It’s funny you mention Ho Chi Minh City. Vietnamese traffic seems lawless but I’ve come to the realization that people there follow different rules, that’s all. Example: often you can cut the oncoming traffic off and turn left before them. This has the advantage of not having to wait 2 minutes in the middle of the road hoping that some poor soul will let you go. Instead, you just do it and people will slow down without honking at you (ironically, since they basically use the honk as a “I’m here too” signal) Which one is better? Having left turns take forever or simply slowing down for 2 seconds when you cross an intersection? Driving on motorbikes especially is infinitely smoother than in any other countries. I’ll take driving in Ho Chi Minh City over LA any day. If you cut people off in the US people will honk, get unreasonably mad and chances are a police car will appear out of nowhere.
- cm2012 7y ago
  Considering Vietnam has twice the rate of death from motor vehicles as the USA, I know which rules I would choose to live with.
  - why-oh-why 7y ago
    Only twice? That's a great rate. Keep in mind that: - Most Vietnamese traffic is on 2 wheels; motorbikes are inherently less safe, that's not necessarily related to traffic rules. - "The [US] federal government estimates that per mile traveled in 2016, the number of deaths on motorcycles was nearly 28 times the number in cars." [1] I would classify Vietnam as safer for a biker than the US. That said, street safety can certainly be improved in Vietnam: people wear dirt-cheap helmets that protect nothing. [2] [1]: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/motorcycles-and-atvs#fn1 https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/motor... [2]: https://noipictures.photoshelter.com/image/I0000TpoYiE1y2Nw https://noipictures.photoshelter.com/image/I0000TpoYiE1y2Nw
dwd 7y ago
I've had a driver in the Brisbane CBD cross multiple lanes on an empty road and swerve at me when I was crossing halfway between red lights. Some people are just jerks I guess.

therealx 7y ago

I found the same thing - in the chezh republic, it was a far more free for all than any other urbanized country I had been to, however things ran way smoother because you counted on everyone else following no rules.

drivingeve 7y ago

The difference between European and Australian drivers is not that Australians have to do 120 hours of supervised driving, but that the supervisor for the hours of driving in Australia is usually the parents of the learner. So any bad habbits from parents are taught between generations. Compare that to the European system where you are requiredto hire a professional driving instructor to teach you (at great expense I might add) for the entire time you are learning. And because of that, the culture in Australia seems to be that driving is a right where as Europeans seem to treat it as more of a privilege.

jimmux 7y ago
I got my license in Canberra, where I had the option to skip the driving test by doing enough hours with a qualified driving instructor. It was a big contrast to my previous struggles to get supervised drives with friends and family. I had picked up a habit of going much too fast around every corner, because the owner of the car I was practicing in insisted that it must be done that way. She did it because that's what her brother taught her. The real instructor got rid of that bad habit very quickly. It's a bit more expensive, but honestly it's so much quicker to get good and less stressful that I recommend it to anyone who has the option. People lie in the log book, too. So I don't believe many actually do the 120 hours they claim.
- TheCalicoCat 7y ago
  I got my license the same way and 100% agree. It's a shame that Canberra is planning to move to the logbook system next year. I only know of one person from NSW who actually did the full 120 hours, and that was only because they took several road trips to other cities.
friendlybus 7y ago
With Aussie lifestyle designed around the car, it is definitely a right. Euro lifestyles can support cars as an option.
pbhjpbhj 7y ago
I don't think that's true in UK. Just that insurance is so expensive that's it's far cheaper to get driving lessons.

DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago

I drive in Australia, and I'm not like what you have described. My general attitude is to be courteous. That doesn't mean I dont nip through on amber, or go over the speed limit by a couple kph, or park. However I do behave as I would want other to behave. I don't drive too close to cars in front. I zip feed always. I indicate, even if nobody is around. I treat bikes and bicycles like other cars. I defer to busses. I slow down and wave pedestrians across if it's safe. Just good manners really.

jimmux 7y ago
Courtesy makes all the difference, but it's not easy sometimes. Too many drivers are happy to take advantage of 2-second gaps, or use an early indication of lane change as a sign to beat you to a gap. I always wonder how people like that act outside vehicles. It's really no different to jumping a queue, but I bet of you did that to them outside a metal box they would call you out.
- o-__-o 7y ago
  It really is different from jumping a queue, though. You have no means to call that person out. In a queue, you can appeal to the emotions of a clerk, attendent, or some other agent with power. Further, if no power agent exists or is sporadic enough that they virtually don't exist (like, say, police on the same roadway you describe) then the action of calling out devolves to simple game theory in which the best mode of action is to simply not participate. I challenge you to change your mindset: >take advantage of 2-second gaps that 2-second gap is simply a buffer. when buffers are filled do we call it 'being taken advantage of' or do we simply empty the buffer and continue our routine?
- dwd 7y ago
  Inconsiderate drivers are the ones who need to be detected and sent back to driver training. They're the ones who try and pass when you're about to merge and leave you nowhere to go. I also find overly courteous drivers to be dangerous, particularly when they ignore right of way. There was a crossroad I had to go through daily that often had a long line of cars waiting because it crossed the offramp joining a major highway and a motorway. You would get idiots stopping to let cars go and actually causing accidents behind them because they caused the offramp to quickly congest out onto the highway. It got so frequently bad that an enterprising local stuck their own Do No Stop cardboard sign there.

fraudsyndrome 7y ago

> strict standards getting a license, red p’s for 12-24 months + 120 logbook hours It was an open secret (by secret I mean bragging) that people would forge their logbook hours - that hour rule only came in semi-recently so I'm not sure on the age of some posters here who haven't mentioned this. Either way, P plates statically have a high propensity to get into accidents although from experience alone I would not say the majority of these are the "aggressive" drivers you see on the street. Maybe it's my own bias but it feels like the majority of P platers are trying to drive safe because of their inexperience, it's the full licence drivers who believe they know best and start showing aggressive behaviours.

hnick 7y ago
It was 50 hours in NSW back when I did it ~20 years ago, and most people still forged it. It was mainly out of laziness though (not updating every time, just fill it in when you book the test).

why-oh-why 7y ago

It’s funny you mention Ho Chi Minh City. Vietnamese traffic seems lawless but I’ve come to the realization that people there follow different rules, that’s all. Example: often you can cut the oncoming traffic off and turn left before them. This has the advantage of not having to wait 2 minutes in the middle of the road hoping that some poor soul will let you go. Instead, you just do it and people will slow down without honking at you (ironically, since they basically use the honk as a “I’m here too” signal) Which one is better? Having left turns take forever or simply slowing down for 2 seconds when you cross an intersection? Driving on motorbikes especially is infinitely smoother than in any other countries. I’ll take driving in Ho Chi Minh City over LA any day. If you cut people off in the US people will honk, get unreasonably mad and chances are a police car will appear out of nowhere.

cm2012 7y ago
Considering Vietnam has twice the rate of death from motor vehicles as the USA, I know which rules I would choose to live with.
- why-oh-why 7y ago
  Only twice? That's a great rate. Keep in mind that: - Most Vietnamese traffic is on 2 wheels; motorbikes are inherently less safe, that's not necessarily related to traffic rules. - "The [US] federal government estimates that per mile traveled in 2016, the number of deaths on motorcycles was nearly 28 times the number in cars." [1] I would classify Vietnam as safer for a biker than the US. That said, street safety can certainly be improved in Vietnam: people wear dirt-cheap helmets that protect nothing. [2] [1]: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/motorcycles-and-atvs#fn1 https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/motor... [2]: https://noipictures.photoshelter.com/image/I0000TpoYiE1y2Nw https://noipictures.photoshelter.com/image/I0000TpoYiE1y2Nw

dwd 7y ago

I've had a driver in the Brisbane CBD cross multiple lanes on an empty road and swerve at me when I was crossing halfway between red lights. Some people are just jerks I guess.