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Why is it easier to buy juul pods than a pack of cigarettes? And I'm not aware of any place in the states you need to be over 18 to buy a lighter - and as a fo

Why is it easier to buy juul pods than a pack of cigarettes? And I'm not aware of any place in the states you need to be over 18 to buy a lighter - and as a former dumbass teenager, I don't think kids have difficulty in figuring out how to light things on fire. Discretion makes sense, but I feel like rationalizing an irrational decision here. Wouldn't it be more discrete not to vape?

webkike 7y ago
I personally remember being a teenager in California trying to buy a lighter to smoke and it was not straightforward. Indeed, I ended up being successful, but I had to use a stove lighter we had lying around my house. Huh? Are you saying that teenagers behave completely rationally? We just wanted to rip our magic flight launch boxes while watching bill nye. It would have been more discrete to sit down and shut up.
bsder 7y ago
> Why is it easier to buy juul pods than a pack of cigarettes? There are non-nicotine pods. And they have all of the social addictiveness even if they don't have actual nicotine in them.
- t-writescode 7y ago
  if there’s no nicotine, then who cares? Magic the Gathering cards and pogs were addicting back in the day, but kids could still buy them.
  - bsder 7y ago
    MtG doesn't have any health downsides other than possibly being a marker for being too sedentary. Vaping has direct health consequences over "not vaping" even without nicotine. The "safety" of vaping is predicated on being compared to "smoking cigarettes". If a bunch of non-smokers picks up vaping, that calculus evaporates. Consequently, selling vaping to a non-smoking, teenage market should come under extreme scrutiny. In addition, everything about the vaping experience is designed to be addicting. I had a friend who believed exactly as you do until he tried one of the flavored, non-nicotine pods. They have a very strong attraction.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    If they have nicotine, then who cares either? Nicotine is addictive when combined with other substances in regular cigarettes. Not as a stand-alone chemical. (Of course avoiding getting any kind of particulate in your lungs is better than getting it.)
    - navd 7y ago
      I'm not sure why I see this popping up throughout the comments. Nicotine BY ITSELF is extremely addictive.
      - jacobolus 7y ago
        Nicotine by itself doesn’t seem categorically different than caffeine (coffee, tea, yerba mate, guarana, ...) or other stimulants (khat, coca leaves, ginseng, cinnamon, ...). Yes these are generally addictive, but not necessarily life ruining. Dosage, frequency of use, etc. matters a lot. Frequent long-term use of any stimulant is probably not great for you; e.g. my mother has a pretty severe coffee addiction (she typically drinks 4–8 cups per day), and gets headaches and shakes if she goes a couple days without. But compared to other kinds of drugs, it doesn’t seem like such a huge public health threat that we should freak out about it.
        navd 7y ago
        I think you’re partly right. However comparing nicotine to caffeine is like comparing apples to oranges. They are similar, but nicotine affects the brain in a much more different (and arguably more addictive) way than caffeine does.
        Simon_says 7y ago
        Technically, your example shows that not using coffee is not great for your mom.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Maybe because of this list of research papers collected by Gwern claiming that nicotine alone doesn't have strong addictive properties (not beyond caffeine level): https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness. Apparently in most popular, educational and health-related communication, nicotine is treated as synonym to tobacco, leading to confusion.
  - morpheuskafka 7y ago
    I do not think you can develop a physiological dependence to Magic the Gathering cards. Additionally, the cards do have some market value, so it was more of a poor use of money than throwing money away.
    - PeterisP 7y ago
      Are you claiming that people develop physiological dependence to non-nicotine pods? Nicotine is very addictive, but that's why the parent poster said "if there’s no nicotine, then who cares?" People may get all kinds of strong weird habits with oral fixation e.g. biting nails and such, but that's generally not considered as physiological dependence.
  - insulanus 7y ago
    Because you don't breathe playing cards into your lungs?
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Nicotine is not what mainly makes smoking addictive or even dangerous. There are plenty of bad chemicals that are much worse than nicotine that vaping could (and shouldn’t) include.

webkike 7y ago

I personally remember being a teenager in California trying to buy a lighter to smoke and it was not straightforward. Indeed, I ended up being successful, but I had to use a stove lighter we had lying around my house. Huh? Are you saying that teenagers behave completely rationally? We just wanted to rip our magic flight launch boxes while watching bill nye. It would have been more discrete to sit down and shut up.

bsder 7y ago

> Why is it easier to buy juul pods than a pack of cigarettes? There are non-nicotine pods. And they have all of the social addictiveness even if they don't have actual nicotine in them.

t-writescode 7y ago
if there’s no nicotine, then who cares? Magic the Gathering cards and pogs were addicting back in the day, but kids could still buy them.
- bsder 7y ago
  MtG doesn't have any health downsides other than possibly being a marker for being too sedentary. Vaping has direct health consequences over "not vaping" even without nicotine. The "safety" of vaping is predicated on being compared to "smoking cigarettes". If a bunch of non-smokers picks up vaping, that calculus evaporates. Consequently, selling vaping to a non-smoking, teenage market should come under extreme scrutiny. In addition, everything about the vaping experience is designed to be addicting. I had a friend who believed exactly as you do until he tried one of the flavored, non-nicotine pods. They have a very strong attraction.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  If they have nicotine, then who cares either? Nicotine is addictive when combined with other substances in regular cigarettes. Not as a stand-alone chemical. (Of course avoiding getting any kind of particulate in your lungs is better than getting it.)
  - navd 7y ago
    I'm not sure why I see this popping up throughout the comments. Nicotine BY ITSELF is extremely addictive.
    - jacobolus 7y ago
      Nicotine by itself doesn’t seem categorically different than caffeine (coffee, tea, yerba mate, guarana, ...) or other stimulants (khat, coca leaves, ginseng, cinnamon, ...). Yes these are generally addictive, but not necessarily life ruining. Dosage, frequency of use, etc. matters a lot. Frequent long-term use of any stimulant is probably not great for you; e.g. my mother has a pretty severe coffee addiction (she typically drinks 4–8 cups per day), and gets headaches and shakes if she goes a couple days without. But compared to other kinds of drugs, it doesn’t seem like such a huge public health threat that we should freak out about it.
      - navd 7y ago
        I think you’re partly right. However comparing nicotine to caffeine is like comparing apples to oranges. They are similar, but nicotine affects the brain in a much more different (and arguably more addictive) way than caffeine does.
      - Simon_says 7y ago
        Technically, your example shows that not using coffee is not great for your mom.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Maybe because of this list of research papers collected by Gwern claiming that nicotine alone doesn't have strong addictive properties (not beyond caffeine level): https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness. Apparently in most popular, educational and health-related communication, nicotine is treated as synonym to tobacco, leading to confusion.
- morpheuskafka 7y ago
  I do not think you can develop a physiological dependence to Magic the Gathering cards. Additionally, the cards do have some market value, so it was more of a poor use of money than throwing money away.
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    Are you claiming that people develop physiological dependence to non-nicotine pods? Nicotine is very addictive, but that's why the parent poster said "if there’s no nicotine, then who cares?" People may get all kinds of strong weird habits with oral fixation e.g. biting nails and such, but that's generally not considered as physiological dependence.
- insulanus 7y ago
  Because you don't breathe playing cards into your lungs?
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Nicotine is not what mainly makes smoking addictive or even dangerous. There are plenty of bad chemicals that are much worse than nicotine that vaping could (and shouldn’t) include.