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Why Did Benedict Arnold Betray America? (2018)

26 points by Anon84 7y ago

jdsully 7y ago
Tl;Dr; We don't know and this article sheds little extra light on the subject. It asks questions and doesn't answer them. I've left the conclusion here to save you time: > “Spying was one thing, but his willingness to switch sides in the middle of an armed conflict, and fight against the men who had a year earlier been fighting by his side, was something that people of that time and maybe ours could simply not understand.”
- softwaredoug 7y ago
  I mean, I wasn’t expecting original research in the article. So I learned a lot reading it...
- zaphirplane 7y ago
  that Is also true about civil wars and all the admired figures from any civil wars did it. Isn’t the us revolution a form of civil war, presumably some of the soldiers on both sides where not British specially at the beginning
Merrill 7y ago
>"Wetherell says that the shortest explanation for his treason is that he "married the wrong person."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold#Plotting_to_change_sides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold#Plotting_to_ch... The wiki article is much more informative. The history.com article, for example, doesn't mention how severely wounded he had been, with the wounded leg 2 inches shorter than the other.
jsnider3 7y ago
Why did Trump betray America?
hacknat 7y ago
America wasn’t a country yet. There was no country to betray. I’m an American, but, c’mon, a lot of people living in the, now, US saw themselves as British subjects. Sure he joined the revolution, but not everyone who joined the American Revolution was aligned with its goals.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  America had declared its independence years before his betrayal, and he threw his lot in with the Continental Army which he then betrayed.
  - Supermancho 7y ago
    > America had declared its independence years before his betrayal, That's not enough to make it a "country" in practice any more than joining a startup makes someone a company man. America isn't some mythic entity that sprung out of the head of Zeus with devoted followers. > Sure he joined the revolution, but not everyone who joined the American Revolution was aligned with its goals. Given the disparity and ignorance between the population about independence, it's very likely the philosophical derivations were innumerable but aligned somewhere along "for it", "against it", "indifferent while it still suits me". This is basically the plot for The Patriot - ie it would follow that if the Americans had won a battle and executed wounded British soldiers, then conscripted/shot his sons, the protagonist's motivations would be the same for the opposing side he ended up on.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      The United States had its own government, the Continental Congress, and declared its independence in 1776. It was very much a country, albeit an embattled one. The population wasn't ignorant about the implications of going to war with the world's largest empire. Many of them were veterans of the French-Indian war.
      - Retric 7y ago
        They did some things that countries do in 1776, but failed to do others for example a national court system. I think the usual description in such situations is to say they had a government, as it’s not uncommon historically for things like governments in exile to exist. That said as the colonies had been doing stuff like enforcing laws and collecting taxes it’s more reasonable to call them a collection of governments than say the United States existed as a country in 1776.
mattrp 7y ago
This is the portrayal that is depicted in Turn originally on AMC. One thing that is overlooked by this article is the role of the British military culture. They were immensely corrupt and happy to sit ensconced in New York with officer’s commissions while nearly bankrupting the English crown. A man like Arnold was not satisfied to simply beat them on the battlefield. And when they refused to come out to the battlefield, his contempt turned to jealousy of his British counterparts and hatred for his former revolutionary comrades. There’s no question he sought company in a wife and in laws who sympathized with the British because if he were to execute a supreme betrayal he would need solace and comfort at home. Ultimately what he wanted was the spoils of war and he went to any length to get it - so much so that his behavior disgusted even the corrupt British military. Arnold was no hero. He was simply a sociopath.
- burtonator 7y ago
  I was also reading that one of the reasons might have been his war wounds that were apparently agonizing him ... They probably reminded him constantly of the fact that he didn't get the promotions he expected. It's definitely an interesting case and we won't really ever now for certain what actually happened. Whether he was legitimately scoured by the congress or if he was just a sociopath expecting things he didn't deserve. ... I think the comparisons to Trump aren't valid though. At least Arnold was accomplished and competent. Trump is neither.
  - thrower123 7y ago
    It's worth remembering that the situation of the colonies was rather grim in 1780. Washington was locked in an extended stalemate around New York, struggling to keep morale up, supplies acquired, and his army from melting away. The British southern strategy was off to a smashing start, inflicting a series of bad defeats through the Carolinas. Then Gates, who Arnold hated and thought got the credit he deserved for Saratoga, was given command in the south, and immediately disgraced himself. There were also a whole series of other debacles around Newport, RI, and the disastrous Penobscot campaign. Not long after Arnold's defection, there were several major mutinies by formations of the Continental Army over extended enlistments, lack of pay and poor conditions. The whole situation was much more touch and go than it appears in hindsight.

26 points by Anon84 7y ago

Tl;Dr; We don't know and this article sheds little extra light on the subject. It asks questions and doesn't answer them. I've left the conclusion here to save you time: > “Spying was one thing, but his willingness to switch sides in the middle of an armed conflict, and fight against the men who had a year earlier been fighting by his side, was something that people of that time and maybe ours could simply not understand.”

softwaredoug 7y ago
I mean, I wasn’t expecting original research in the article. So I learned a lot reading it...
zaphirplane 7y ago
that Is also true about civil wars and all the admired figures from any civil wars did it. Isn’t the us revolution a form of civil war, presumably some of the soldiers on both sides where not British specially at the beginning

Merrill 7y ago

>"Wetherell says that the shortest explanation for his treason is that he "married the wrong person."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold#Plotting_to_change_sides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold#Plotting_to_ch... The wiki article is much more informative. The history.com article, for example, doesn't mention how severely wounded he had been, with the wounded leg 2 inches shorter than the other.

jsnider3 7y ago

Why did Trump betray America?

hacknat 7y ago

America wasn’t a country yet. There was no country to betray. I’m an American, but, c’mon, a lot of people living in the, now, US saw themselves as British subjects. Sure he joined the revolution, but not everyone who joined the American Revolution was aligned with its goals.

mieseratte 7y ago
America had declared its independence years before his betrayal, and he threw his lot in with the Continental Army which he then betrayed.
- Supermancho 7y ago
  > America had declared its independence years before his betrayal, That's not enough to make it a "country" in practice any more than joining a startup makes someone a company man. America isn't some mythic entity that sprung out of the head of Zeus with devoted followers. > Sure he joined the revolution, but not everyone who joined the American Revolution was aligned with its goals. Given the disparity and ignorance between the population about independence, it's very likely the philosophical derivations were innumerable but aligned somewhere along "for it", "against it", "indifferent while it still suits me". This is basically the plot for The Patriot - ie it would follow that if the Americans had won a battle and executed wounded British soldiers, then conscripted/shot his sons, the protagonist's motivations would be the same for the opposing side he ended up on.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    The United States had its own government, the Continental Congress, and declared its independence in 1776. It was very much a country, albeit an embattled one. The population wasn't ignorant about the implications of going to war with the world's largest empire. Many of them were veterans of the French-Indian war.
    - Retric 7y ago
      They did some things that countries do in 1776, but failed to do others for example a national court system. I think the usual description in such situations is to say they had a government, as it’s not uncommon historically for things like governments in exile to exist. That said as the colonies had been doing stuff like enforcing laws and collecting taxes it’s more reasonable to call them a collection of governments than say the United States existed as a country in 1776.

mattrp 7y ago

This is the portrayal that is depicted in Turn originally on AMC. One thing that is overlooked by this article is the role of the British military culture. They were immensely corrupt and happy to sit ensconced in New York with officer’s commissions while nearly bankrupting the English crown. A man like Arnold was not satisfied to simply beat them on the battlefield. And when they refused to come out to the battlefield, his contempt turned to jealousy of his British counterparts and hatred for his former revolutionary comrades. There’s no question he sought company in a wife and in laws who sympathized with the British because if he were to execute a supreme betrayal he would need solace and comfort at home. Ultimately what he wanted was the spoils of war and he went to any length to get it - so much so that his behavior disgusted even the corrupt British military. Arnold was no hero. He was simply a sociopath.

burtonator 7y ago
I was also reading that one of the reasons might have been his war wounds that were apparently agonizing him ... They probably reminded him constantly of the fact that he didn't get the promotions he expected. It's definitely an interesting case and we won't really ever now for certain what actually happened. Whether he was legitimately scoured by the congress or if he was just a sociopath expecting things he didn't deserve. ... I think the comparisons to Trump aren't valid though. At least Arnold was accomplished and competent. Trump is neither.
- thrower123 7y ago
  It's worth remembering that the situation of the colonies was rather grim in 1780. Washington was locked in an extended stalemate around New York, struggling to keep morale up, supplies acquired, and his army from melting away. The British southern strategy was off to a smashing start, inflicting a series of bad defeats through the Carolinas. Then Gates, who Arnold hated and thought got the credit he deserved for Saratoga, was given command in the south, and immediately disgraced himself. There were also a whole series of other debacles around Newport, RI, and the disastrous Penobscot campaign. Not long after Arnold's defection, there were several major mutinies by formations of the Continental Army over extended enlistments, lack of pay and poor conditions. The whole situation was much more touch and go than it appears in hindsight.