9 ms·

> Republicans play to suppress minority voters. What are they doing to suppress minorities?

by mieseratte 7y ago

TallGuyShort 7y ago
They want to require people to show government-issued photo IDs when voting to prove they have the right to vote.
- RandomInteger4 7y ago
  So basically they're not trying to suppress minority voters?
  - oscar_wong67 7y ago
    Poor people don't have IDs because they don't drive and don't have driver's licenses, and they don't have the work flexibility or the luxury to go to the DMV, afaik
    - sverige 7y ago
      This is the silliest argument against voter ID laws ever, and should be retired. [0] [1] [2] [0] https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-voter-id-racism https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-vote... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/opinion/voter-id-study-republicans-democrats.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/opinion/voter-id-study-re... [2] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs
      - jimclegg 7y ago
        Wow this thread reeks of classism. You can't imagine an American that cannot afford $50-100 for a government I.D.? You can imagine (& possibly smell) the feces on the street but not the poor people who excrete it? We know most Americans can't come up with $400 for an emergency, are you going to act like this won't impact voting? This thread is why people are forcing diversity quotas even when it seems unnecessary, income diversity should be next.
        asabjorn 7y ago
        You need a government ID to apply for food stamps or welfare or medicaid/social security, and to apply for unemployment or a job. It would seem like a poor person would utilize those services. Also, you need an ID to have a bank account, buy a cellphone, buy alcohol or cigarettes.
        RandomBacon 7y ago
        > Also, you need an ID to have a bank account, buy a cellphone, buy alcohol or cigarettes. Incorrect on all three accounts in the U.S. Some states might have a law requiring ID for alcohol or cigarettes, but at least one definitely does not. Some stores actually violate their state's law with their store's ID policies. I've done all three without ID (alcohol, not cigarettes though). Yes, it is possible to have a bank account without ID.
        asabjorn 7y ago
        > Yes, it is possible to have a bank account without ID. Where do you get that from? It seems incorrect: "You’ll need to provide a valid, government-issued photo ID, such as a driver’s license or a passport, or a state ID card from the Department of Motor Vehicles." [1] > Some states might have a law requiring ID for alcohol or cigarettes, but at least one definitely does not. Some stores actually violate their state's law with their store's ID policies. All states require you to be 21 to buy alcohol. Which states do not require you to provide ID for that? Seems like we might be splitting hairs here due to laws such as Indianas that "Indiana has a photo identification requirement for all off-premises transactions to anyone who is or reasonably appears to be less than forty (40) years of age." [3] So yes, some liquor seller might be lax on enforcement or judge you to look over 40. However, that doesn't change the laws. [1] https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/how-to-open-a-bank-account-what-you-need/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/how-to-open-a-bank-a... [2] https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0388-alcohol-laws-state https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0388-alcohol-laws-stat... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_Un...
      - youeseh 7y ago
        Hey, I watched the video and found it interesting that the guy interviewed people in Berkeley and New York - places where voter suppression is not an issue. Some counterpoints: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto
    - SamReidHughes 7y ago
      And they definitely don't buy alcohol.
      - youeseh 7y ago
        What do you think is the cost of making an additional ID? Probably 1/2 hour of work (if that), printing and mailing. So, like, a 24-pack of expensive hipster brew? $50? It costs $31 to get an ID in California, and $9 if you can't afford $31. They can afford their booze and still get an ID here, and hopefully in other states too.
  - youeseh 7y ago
    It is a numbers game (no puns intended). Let's say we have 100k people that live in a few poor counties where not everyone has government ID and they can't afford to spend time / money to go very far. Now, if 40k of those people need an ID to vote, reducing the hours that the nearest DMV operates will reduce the number of people that get an ID. Now, you might say, "but why can't they just go to the DMV in the next county?" or "why can't they get their IDs well ahead of time?", and you'd have a valid question! But when you have 100k people.. creating what looks like a minor inconvenience will definitely translate to fewer voters in the end. Now, lets create a bunch of minor inconveniences and the numbers really start to shrink.
    - kayaeb 7y ago
      What are better suggestions to prevent voter fraud? We know from history that voting fraud is a thing, in the 1800s it was known that political parties would pay fresh immigrants to vote (like the scene in Upton Sinclaire's "The Jungle"), or to even kidnap people and force them into voting [1]. So we can't rely on good faith. I'm under the impression that to vote you must register in a voting district, surely that registration requires something like a birth certificate or a SSN, which I believe is the only requirement for a government issued ID... Operating on the idea that the requirement for government IDs may in fact be a good faith measure to prevent voter fraud, would perhaps an optimal solution be to bring a web camera to that voting registration area and simultaneously issue IDs there? To be honest, I thought it was a non-issue since my voter registration is also my draft registration, so I assume I provided some form of citizenship proof when I registered. It was a while ago though so I don't recall the details. [1] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/election-fraud-in-the-1800s-involved-kidnapping-and-forced-drinking https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/election-fraud-in-the-...
      - Retric 7y ago
        The common solution when little documentation exists is to apply ink at voting booths. Something that comes off in a few days, but otherwise bonds to the top layer of people’s skin. That’s plenty for one person one vote. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink As to having non residents vote, vastly more eligible voters don’t vote than people ineligible to vote. Honestly, as much hoopla as this gets it’s clear from recent elections it’s a non issue. Look for actual examples of this happening and your coming up empty.
- dariusm5 7y ago
  I'm surprised there's nothing like that in the US already. Here in Mexico, the national ID is a voter ID card (IFE) and is carried by everyone.
  - markdown 7y ago
    In Fiji we don't have a national ID but we can normally use one of either a voter ID card, drivers license, or tax ID card.
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    Much of U.S. does require voter ID. Thirty-five states require it; 17 of those in form of a photo. [2] It gets contested a lot in the courts though. Globally, it is pretty typical. Not just Mexico and the U.S., but France, Germany, Netherlands, Iceland, Canada, Brazil, India, Israel. [1] [1] https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_Identification_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_Identification_laws
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    The same people that want voters to provide ID when voting are very against free national ID cards. There are plenty of games that you can play at the state level in discouraging or somehow confusing the ID issue (does the address have to up to date on your DL, or even the right state for college students?), which doesn’t apply when a national ID is considered (none of that info is on your passport, but it costs $100+ to get that).
- dumbfoundded 7y ago
  You make it seem much more reasonable than it is. Your statement is also really a lie of omission. To summarize, the government (mostly state/local & mostly conservative) makes it harder to vote if you're poor and/or young. The first and most obvious example is a national voting holiday. Only about 56% of Americans eligible vote in the presidential election. Also, lots of games are played with registration especially after redistricting. Nothing done explicitly stops anyone from voting but they nonetheless shrink the electorate.
- ping_pong 7y ago
  I'm a progressive liberal, but I believe this is hogwash. Many countries have a government issued national card for citizens. It's not a huge deal. Activists have made it seem like it's a way to suppress voters but I think that's largely BS. We could start a campaign now, or just after the next election in 2020, and get people to sign up for cards by 2028, and enforce that then. We have census every 10 years, it's something the country can easily coordinate.
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    Republicans also conveniently oppose national ID cards and programs to provide hassle-free state IDs.
    - niij 7y ago
      > hassle-free state IDs What hassle? Nearly everyone has them already for driving and they're valid for 6+ years. Might take an hour or two of your time every 6 or so years.
      - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
        Or you can just send every eligible voter their voting license when they turn 18 and cut out the middleman.
        niij 7y ago
        Sounds like a good idea to me, for those without driver's license it'd provide a way to vote without the hassle of getting a non-drivers ID card. Only issues I could think of are: 1. No central registry of addresses, so how would the government know where to send the IDs. 2. Where would the photograph for the ID come from? 3. Possible fraud/abuse from stolen mail
        fucking_tragedy 7y ago
        Other countries were able to figure it out, so can we. Voting license proponents never seem to want to send eligible voters their free voting licenses, though.
- zaroth 7y ago
  There are a lot of things in modern society that you need a government ID to do. If adding voting to that list is the defining feature that forces the government to make it economical for every adult to have an ID, then that is a win. Everyone should have an ID because of how important they are for accessing government benefits, freedom of mobility, employment, etc. If that means that getting an ID should pay you $100 instead of cost you $100 then I’m totally for that. Again, to reiterate, I believe that getting an ID should be economically neutral at worst (which means you should be paid at least a few dollars for going through the trouble to get one) regardless of whether IDs are required to vote, but if a voting requirement is what it would take to make that happen it’s a perfect win/win.
  - XorNot 7y ago
    No one opposing mandatory voter ID opposes this. But it's not what's going to happen.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- spaginal 7y ago
  Which is non trivial. We require ID in almost every kind of daily transaction imaginable, from healthcare to banking, employment, travel, alcohol, cigarettes, all other government services, and so on. But go apoplectic when we try to use it for one transaction every two years and act as if over half the population lacks the ability to participate in daily basic society. Black people are intelligent enough to get ID's, as are women and any other minority in this country. The constant denigration as if they lack the faculties or intelligence to get an ID is pretty insulting. Let's get real.
youeseh 7y ago
Here are a few examples: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-voter-suppression https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-voter-suppre... It is more than just requiring proper ID when voting. Turns out that you have to be on a list of pre-approved voters. There can be many reasons why you didn't end up on that list and many ways to bump you off. Its not like you show up on voting day, scan your ID, and the system magically determines your eligibility to vote based on your current address, criminal record, age etc.. retrieved from a federal database that no one can question. No, the lists are prepared and very easy to game.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  I dont know why people show up I usually vote by mail. Never had any issues doing so.
  - TheCoelacanth 7y ago
    Many states, especially the Republican controlled ones, don't allow that unless you have a reason on a short list of pre-approved reasons.
    - prepend 7y ago
      That’s really surprising. I lived in a super Republican state and mail in ballots were allowed for anyone. This recent article shows the growth in absentee ballots [0]. Most states allow no excuse absentee ballots but some states still require a reason. Some are republican states like Texas and West Virginia and South Carolina, but also includes most of New England- New York, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island all super blue. [0] https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voting-mail-and-absentee-voting https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voting-mail-and-absente...
- refurb 7y ago
  Could you provide a citation that’s a little more reliable than a quora post?
asabjorn 7y ago
The minorities argument is hogwash. Read the list of things you can't do without a government ID and ask yourself how many are not doing any of those: have a bank account, getting a cellphone, buy alcohol or cigarettes, apply for food stamps or welfare or medicaid/social security, apply for unemployment or a job, rent/buy a house, drive/buy/rent a car, fly, get married, etc etc So what is the real story? Former NYC Democratic Commissioner of the Board of Elections Alan Schulkin explaining how prevalent voter fraud is in New York City and the need for Voter ID laws: https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1175118003140222976 https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/117511800314022297... A series on how common voter fraud is: https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-2018-recap-and-impact/ https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-20...
- youeseh 7y ago
  Like gun ownership and free speech, you have the right to vote in America. So, if the government wanted to make it harder for the bad guys to own a gun... why should the good guys have to suffer for it? Similarly, just because the government wants to prevent bad guys from voting, then why should the good guys have to suffer the consequences?
  - asabjorn 7y ago
    96% of Americans have a cellphone and that require an ID: https://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/ https://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/ Also, good guys have IDs to do one of the many things I listed that require IDs including poor people that need an ID for food stamps or medicare or social security. It is actually quite hard to buy a gun as this journalist that thought it was easy found out when trying to buy one: https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-gun-buying-review-virginia-store-2019-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-gun-buying-review-vi...
    - youeseh 7y ago
      Assuming that you're right that 96% have an ID, then what problem are we solving by forcing the other 4% into getting an ID? Is it even a problem? Do you have data to show that it is a real problem? Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto Btw, you shouldn't mix up Walmart with the government. They aren't. Walmart can structure their customer experience any way they want as long as they aren't breaking the law.
codyb 7y ago
Voter ID laws to start. It’s a modern day poll tax to require ID to vote which prevents a crime barely anyone is even committing that doesn’t scale easily to sway most elections. I haven’t seen Republicans calling for easy access to IDs though and their efforts to suppress voting from people who side with the left are notorious. Their gerrymandered maps are being struck down in places like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and N. Carolina. They conveniently close polling locations in minority neighborhoods. They oppose election security bills. (McConnell until recently). They oppose informing the public about election interference (McConnell). Their PACs refuse to disclose donor information. They’re pro dark money in elections. Trump just tried to pressure the Ukranian leader for dirt on Biden. The electoral college heavily favors Republicans and has given them at two Presidents in the last twenty years alone who lost the popular vote. When Democrats are elected they’ll obstruct their Supreme Court nominations until they can put in their own. The Senate heavily favors rural populations with the Dakota’s receiving four Senators with a population just over one million while California gets two with just under forty million people. McConnell won’t even bring bills passed by the House to the floor of the Senate and has referred to himself as the Grim Reaper. Republicans do not support making election days national holidays. Republicans consistently try to scale back poll hours and early access voting. Republicans are anti-democracy and a grave danger to our free nation at this point and it’s terrifying. They use every trick in the book to undermine the populace’s ability to elect leaders that do not serve the rich and the rich only. They stand for absolutely nothing except tax cuts, profits, unbridled corruption, and the selling off of America’s resources wholesale to the highest bidder.
- asabjorn 7y ago
  As a non-citizen I think it is fair to expect enforcement of only one vote per citizen and to verify that the right person votes. Your assertion on how common voter fraud is contradic former NYC Democratic Commissioner of the Board of Elections Alan Schulkin which says it is prevalent in New York City, and he thinks there is a need for Voter ID laws: https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1175118003140222976 https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/117511800314022297... This is a whole thread on how common fraud is: https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-2018-recap-and-impact/ https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-20...

> Republicans play to suppress minority voters. What are they doing to suppress minorities?

TallGuyShort 7y ago

They want to require people to show government-issued photo IDs when voting to prove they have the right to vote.

RandomInteger4 7y ago
So basically they're not trying to suppress minority voters?
- oscar_wong67 7y ago
  Poor people don't have IDs because they don't drive and don't have driver's licenses, and they don't have the work flexibility or the luxury to go to the DMV, afaik
  - sverige 7y ago
    This is the silliest argument against voter ID laws ever, and should be retired. [0] [1] [2] [0] https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-voter-id-racism https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-vote... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/opinion/voter-id-study-republicans-democrats.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/opinion/voter-id-study-re... [2] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs
    - jimclegg 7y ago
      Wow this thread reeks of classism. You can't imagine an American that cannot afford $50-100 for a government I.D.? You can imagine (& possibly smell) the feces on the street but not the poor people who excrete it? We know most Americans can't come up with $400 for an emergency, are you going to act like this won't impact voting? This thread is why people are forcing diversity quotas even when it seems unnecessary, income diversity should be next.
      - asabjorn 7y ago
        You need a government ID to apply for food stamps or welfare or medicaid/social security, and to apply for unemployment or a job. It would seem like a poor person would utilize those services. Also, you need an ID to have a bank account, buy a cellphone, buy alcohol or cigarettes.
        RandomBacon 7y ago
        > Also, you need an ID to have a bank account, buy a cellphone, buy alcohol or cigarettes. Incorrect on all three accounts in the U.S. Some states might have a law requiring ID for alcohol or cigarettes, but at least one definitely does not. Some stores actually violate their state's law with their store's ID policies. I've done all three without ID (alcohol, not cigarettes though). Yes, it is possible to have a bank account without ID.
        asabjorn 7y ago
        > Yes, it is possible to have a bank account without ID. Where do you get that from? It seems incorrect: "You’ll need to provide a valid, government-issued photo ID, such as a driver’s license or a passport, or a state ID card from the Department of Motor Vehicles." [1] > Some states might have a law requiring ID for alcohol or cigarettes, but at least one definitely does not. Some stores actually violate their state's law with their store's ID policies. All states require you to be 21 to buy alcohol. Which states do not require you to provide ID for that? Seems like we might be splitting hairs here due to laws such as Indianas that "Indiana has a photo identification requirement for all off-premises transactions to anyone who is or reasonably appears to be less than forty (40) years of age." [3] So yes, some liquor seller might be lax on enforcement or judge you to look over 40. However, that doesn't change the laws. [1] https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/how-to-open-a-bank-account-what-you-need/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/how-to-open-a-bank-a... [2] https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0388-alcohol-laws-state https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0388-alcohol-laws-stat... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_Un...
    - youeseh 7y ago
      Hey, I watched the video and found it interesting that the guy interviewed people in Berkeley and New York - places where voter suppression is not an issue. Some counterpoints: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    And they definitely don't buy alcohol.
    - youeseh 7y ago
      What do you think is the cost of making an additional ID? Probably 1/2 hour of work (if that), printing and mailing. So, like, a 24-pack of expensive hipster brew? $50? It costs $31 to get an ID in California, and $9 if you can't afford $31. They can afford their booze and still get an ID here, and hopefully in other states too.
- youeseh 7y ago
  It is a numbers game (no puns intended). Let's say we have 100k people that live in a few poor counties where not everyone has government ID and they can't afford to spend time / money to go very far. Now, if 40k of those people need an ID to vote, reducing the hours that the nearest DMV operates will reduce the number of people that get an ID. Now, you might say, "but why can't they just go to the DMV in the next county?" or "why can't they get their IDs well ahead of time?", and you'd have a valid question! But when you have 100k people.. creating what looks like a minor inconvenience will definitely translate to fewer voters in the end. Now, lets create a bunch of minor inconveniences and the numbers really start to shrink.
  - kayaeb 7y ago
    What are better suggestions to prevent voter fraud? We know from history that voting fraud is a thing, in the 1800s it was known that political parties would pay fresh immigrants to vote (like the scene in Upton Sinclaire's "The Jungle"), or to even kidnap people and force them into voting [1]. So we can't rely on good faith. I'm under the impression that to vote you must register in a voting district, surely that registration requires something like a birth certificate or a SSN, which I believe is the only requirement for a government issued ID... Operating on the idea that the requirement for government IDs may in fact be a good faith measure to prevent voter fraud, would perhaps an optimal solution be to bring a web camera to that voting registration area and simultaneously issue IDs there? To be honest, I thought it was a non-issue since my voter registration is also my draft registration, so I assume I provided some form of citizenship proof when I registered. It was a while ago though so I don't recall the details. [1] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/election-fraud-in-the-1800s-involved-kidnapping-and-forced-drinking https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/election-fraud-in-the-...
    - Retric 7y ago
      The common solution when little documentation exists is to apply ink at voting booths. Something that comes off in a few days, but otherwise bonds to the top layer of people’s skin. That’s plenty for one person one vote. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink As to having non residents vote, vastly more eligible voters don’t vote than people ineligible to vote. Honestly, as much hoopla as this gets it’s clear from recent elections it’s a non issue. Look for actual examples of this happening and your coming up empty.
dariusm5 7y ago
I'm surprised there's nothing like that in the US already. Here in Mexico, the national ID is a voter ID card (IFE) and is carried by everyone.
- markdown 7y ago
  In Fiji we don't have a national ID but we can normally use one of either a voter ID card, drivers license, or tax ID card.
- paulddraper 7y ago
  Much of U.S. does require voter ID. Thirty-five states require it; 17 of those in form of a photo. [2] It gets contested a lot in the courts though. Globally, it is pretty typical. Not just Mexico and the U.S., but France, Germany, Netherlands, Iceland, Canada, Brazil, India, Israel. [1] [1] https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_Identification_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_Identification_laws
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  The same people that want voters to provide ID when voting are very against free national ID cards. There are plenty of games that you can play at the state level in discouraging or somehow confusing the ID issue (does the address have to up to date on your DL, or even the right state for college students?), which doesn’t apply when a national ID is considered (none of that info is on your passport, but it costs $100+ to get that).
dumbfoundded 7y ago
You make it seem much more reasonable than it is. Your statement is also really a lie of omission. To summarize, the government (mostly state/local & mostly conservative) makes it harder to vote if you're poor and/or young. The first and most obvious example is a national voting holiday. Only about 56% of Americans eligible vote in the presidential election. Also, lots of games are played with registration especially after redistricting. Nothing done explicitly stops anyone from voting but they nonetheless shrink the electorate.
ping_pong 7y ago
I'm a progressive liberal, but I believe this is hogwash. Many countries have a government issued national card for citizens. It's not a huge deal. Activists have made it seem like it's a way to suppress voters but I think that's largely BS. We could start a campaign now, or just after the next election in 2020, and get people to sign up for cards by 2028, and enforce that then. We have census every 10 years, it's something the country can easily coordinate.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  Republicans also conveniently oppose national ID cards and programs to provide hassle-free state IDs.
  - niij 7y ago
    > hassle-free state IDs What hassle? Nearly everyone has them already for driving and they're valid for 6+ years. Might take an hour or two of your time every 6 or so years.
    - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
      Or you can just send every eligible voter their voting license when they turn 18 and cut out the middleman.
      - niij 7y ago
        Sounds like a good idea to me, for those without driver's license it'd provide a way to vote without the hassle of getting a non-drivers ID card. Only issues I could think of are: 1. No central registry of addresses, so how would the government know where to send the IDs. 2. Where would the photograph for the ID come from? 3. Possible fraud/abuse from stolen mail
        fucking_tragedy 7y ago
        Other countries were able to figure it out, so can we. Voting license proponents never seem to want to send eligible voters their free voting licenses, though.
zaroth 7y ago
There are a lot of things in modern society that you need a government ID to do. If adding voting to that list is the defining feature that forces the government to make it economical for every adult to have an ID, then that is a win. Everyone should have an ID because of how important they are for accessing government benefits, freedom of mobility, employment, etc. If that means that getting an ID should pay you $100 instead of cost you $100 then I’m totally for that. Again, to reiterate, I believe that getting an ID should be economically neutral at worst (which means you should be paid at least a few dollars for going through the trouble to get one) regardless of whether IDs are required to vote, but if a voting requirement is what it would take to make that happen it’s a perfect win/win.
- XorNot 7y ago
  No one opposing mandatory voter ID opposes this. But it's not what's going to happen.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
spaginal 7y ago
Which is non trivial. We require ID in almost every kind of daily transaction imaginable, from healthcare to banking, employment, travel, alcohol, cigarettes, all other government services, and so on. But go apoplectic when we try to use it for one transaction every two years and act as if over half the population lacks the ability to participate in daily basic society. Black people are intelligent enough to get ID's, as are women and any other minority in this country. The constant denigration as if they lack the faculties or intelligence to get an ID is pretty insulting. Let's get real.

youeseh 7y ago

Here are a few examples: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-voter-suppression https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-voter-suppre... It is more than just requiring proper ID when voting. Turns out that you have to be on a list of pre-approved voters. There can be many reasons why you didn't end up on that list and many ways to bump you off. Its not like you show up on voting day, scan your ID, and the system magically determines your eligibility to vote based on your current address, criminal record, age etc.. retrieved from a federal database that no one can question. No, the lists are prepared and very easy to game.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
I dont know why people show up I usually vote by mail. Never had any issues doing so.
- TheCoelacanth 7y ago
  Many states, especially the Republican controlled ones, don't allow that unless you have a reason on a short list of pre-approved reasons.
  - prepend 7y ago
    That’s really surprising. I lived in a super Republican state and mail in ballots were allowed for anyone. This recent article shows the growth in absentee ballots [0]. Most states allow no excuse absentee ballots but some states still require a reason. Some are republican states like Texas and West Virginia and South Carolina, but also includes most of New England- New York, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island all super blue. [0] https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voting-mail-and-absentee-voting https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voting-mail-and-absente...
refurb 7y ago
Could you provide a citation that’s a little more reliable than a quora post?

asabjorn 7y ago

The minorities argument is hogwash. Read the list of things you can't do without a government ID and ask yourself how many are not doing any of those: have a bank account, getting a cellphone, buy alcohol or cigarettes, apply for food stamps or welfare or medicaid/social security, apply for unemployment or a job, rent/buy a house, drive/buy/rent a car, fly, get married, etc etc So what is the real story? Former NYC Democratic Commissioner of the Board of Elections Alan Schulkin explaining how prevalent voter fraud is in New York City and the need for Voter ID laws: https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1175118003140222976 https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/117511800314022297... A series on how common voter fraud is: https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-2018-recap-and-impact/ https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-20...

youeseh 7y ago
Like gun ownership and free speech, you have the right to vote in America. So, if the government wanted to make it harder for the bad guys to own a gun... why should the good guys have to suffer for it? Similarly, just because the government wants to prevent bad guys from voting, then why should the good guys have to suffer the consequences?
- asabjorn 7y ago
  96% of Americans have a cellphone and that require an ID: https://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/ https://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/ Also, good guys have IDs to do one of the many things I listed that require IDs including poor people that need an ID for food stamps or medicare or social security. It is actually quite hard to buy a gun as this journalist that thought it was easy found out when trying to buy one: https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-gun-buying-review-virginia-store-2019-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-gun-buying-review-vi...
  - youeseh 7y ago
    Assuming that you're right that 96% have an ID, then what problem are we solving by forcing the other 4% into getting an ID? Is it even a problem? Do you have data to show that it is a real problem? Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto Btw, you shouldn't mix up Walmart with the government. They aren't. Walmart can structure their customer experience any way they want as long as they aren't breaking the law.

codyb 7y ago

Voter ID laws to start. It’s a modern day poll tax to require ID to vote which prevents a crime barely anyone is even committing that doesn’t scale easily to sway most elections. I haven’t seen Republicans calling for easy access to IDs though and their efforts to suppress voting from people who side with the left are notorious. Their gerrymandered maps are being struck down in places like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and N. Carolina. They conveniently close polling locations in minority neighborhoods. They oppose election security bills. (McConnell until recently). They oppose informing the public about election interference (McConnell). Their PACs refuse to disclose donor information. They’re pro dark money in elections. Trump just tried to pressure the Ukranian leader for dirt on Biden. The electoral college heavily favors Republicans and has given them at two Presidents in the last twenty years alone who lost the popular vote. When Democrats are elected they’ll obstruct their Supreme Court nominations until they can put in their own. The Senate heavily favors rural populations with the Dakota’s receiving four Senators with a population just over one million while California gets two with just under forty million people. McConnell won’t even bring bills passed by the House to the floor of the Senate and has referred to himself as the Grim Reaper. Republicans do not support making election days national holidays. Republicans consistently try to scale back poll hours and early access voting. Republicans are anti-democracy and a grave danger to our free nation at this point and it’s terrifying. They use every trick in the book to undermine the populace’s ability to elect leaders that do not serve the rich and the rich only. They stand for absolutely nothing except tax cuts, profits, unbridled corruption, and the selling off of America’s resources wholesale to the highest bidder.

asabjorn 7y ago
As a non-citizen I think it is fair to expect enforcement of only one vote per citizen and to verify that the right person votes. Your assertion on how common voter fraud is contradic former NYC Democratic Commissioner of the Board of Elections Alan Schulkin which says it is prevalent in New York City, and he thinks there is a need for Voter ID laws: https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1175118003140222976 https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/117511800314022297... This is a whole thread on how common fraud is: https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-2018-recap-and-impact/ https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/11/13/elections-fraud-20...