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Science education in this country is seriously broken. The elementary schools jump right into teaching procedural skills such as the 'scientific method', which

Science education in this country is seriously broken. The elementary schools jump right into teaching procedural skills such as the 'scientific method', which is really just experimental design and is useless without teaching the basic critical thinking and philosophy of science. Those are way more important for the majority of students, who are not going to go on to be scientists. We need to start the education at the preschool level, teaching the kids how easy it is to be fooled and why we have to always question. You can then build on that at the elementary school level with concepts of objectivity and repeatabily. By the end on elementary school you can then begin philosophy of rationality and empiricism. This can all happen in parallel to teaching 'science facts' that we do now. But none of this is currently happening at any kind of large scale.

The_rationalist 7y ago
If this was done manking would be changed forever. Note about teaching reason: Cognitive biases and logical fallacies should be teached too.
richk449 7y ago
How do you teach a preschool kid reason?
- technothrasher 7y ago
  You don't. You simply teach them that they can be easily fooled. That's the beginning. Among other things, slight of hand magic and optical illusions are both fun, easy to grasp, and get the point across. Reason comes later. When my boy was a preschooler he came home one day with a terrible story about how his friend's dad had been sucked up by a vacuum cleaner! He was pretty spooked by the story. I simply said, "Hmm, interesting, let's try it." We got out the vacuum cleaner and I let him attempt to suck me up with it. It was fun, funny, and I could see the lightbulb go off in his head.
abakker 7y ago
Here’s an alternative view: we do an ok job of science education, but a deeply unsatisfactory job of teaching people that it is OK to be themselves and likes the stuff they like. Crystal spiritualism to me is just a reaction to the fact that people overascribe meaning to things that they like and enjoy, as a justification beyond “I enjoy it”. It goes hand in hand with the whole spiritualism around rock climbing or stand up paddle boarding or yoga - they’re all great fun, but, modern life under emphasizes the role of fun and preference and so people justify it with spiritualism.
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  The simple counter-example here is: everybody likes cocaine, but nobody likes what cocaine does to you over long term, so you should probably not do it.
  - ozzmotik 7y ago
    i don't particularly like what breathing oxygen does to my body over the long term but i still do that. granted, out of necessity. anyway i agree with the point you're making, with one caveat: id say it's perfectly okay to do cocaine responsibly. it's just really difficult to do so evidently! if one were to only occasionally do it then i would think that the overall negative impact of it would be significantly less than what would happen if one were to do it consistently for a long period of time. granted my experience is with methamphetamine, which is, uh... an entirely different beast! but either way. if someone likes crystals, it's ok to like them and to collect them, even to believe some woo things about them. but it's a problem when they start trying to convince everyone else that their experience is absolute and not just anecdotal. the same concept in a roundabout way goes for cocaine: if you like it, by all means, enjoy it! just be responsible with it. personally i don't like cocaine at all, just the way that it smells /s
Scoundreller 7y ago
> We need to start the education at the preschool level, teaching the kids how easy it is to be fooled and why we have to always question. You’re going to have to rejig several years of curriculum based on the Easter bunny, various Christmas holiday creations, children’s books and probably ruin a lot of imaginative fantasy books. I’m okay with it though, my older siblings basically did the same thing to me from a young age.

The_rationalist 7y ago

If this was done manking would be changed forever. Note about teaching reason: Cognitive biases and logical fallacies should be teached too.

richk449 7y ago

How do you teach a preschool kid reason?

technothrasher 7y ago
You don't. You simply teach them that they can be easily fooled. That's the beginning. Among other things, slight of hand magic and optical illusions are both fun, easy to grasp, and get the point across. Reason comes later. When my boy was a preschooler he came home one day with a terrible story about how his friend's dad had been sucked up by a vacuum cleaner! He was pretty spooked by the story. I simply said, "Hmm, interesting, let's try it." We got out the vacuum cleaner and I let him attempt to suck me up with it. It was fun, funny, and I could see the lightbulb go off in his head.

abakker 7y ago

Here’s an alternative view: we do an ok job of science education, but a deeply unsatisfactory job of teaching people that it is OK to be themselves and likes the stuff they like. Crystal spiritualism to me is just a reaction to the fact that people overascribe meaning to things that they like and enjoy, as a justification beyond “I enjoy it”. It goes hand in hand with the whole spiritualism around rock climbing or stand up paddle boarding or yoga - they’re all great fun, but, modern life under emphasizes the role of fun and preference and so people justify it with spiritualism.

heavenlyblue 7y ago
The simple counter-example here is: everybody likes cocaine, but nobody likes what cocaine does to you over long term, so you should probably not do it.
- ozzmotik 7y ago
  i don't particularly like what breathing oxygen does to my body over the long term but i still do that. granted, out of necessity. anyway i agree with the point you're making, with one caveat: id say it's perfectly okay to do cocaine responsibly. it's just really difficult to do so evidently! if one were to only occasionally do it then i would think that the overall negative impact of it would be significantly less than what would happen if one were to do it consistently for a long period of time. granted my experience is with methamphetamine, which is, uh... an entirely different beast! but either way. if someone likes crystals, it's ok to like them and to collect them, even to believe some woo things about them. but it's a problem when they start trying to convince everyone else that their experience is absolute and not just anecdotal. the same concept in a roundabout way goes for cocaine: if you like it, by all means, enjoy it! just be responsible with it. personally i don't like cocaine at all, just the way that it smells /s

Scoundreller 7y ago

> We need to start the education at the preschool level, teaching the kids how easy it is to be fooled and why we have to always question. You’re going to have to rejig several years of curriculum based on the Easter bunny, various Christmas holiday creations, children’s books and probably ruin a lot of imaginative fantasy books. I’m okay with it though, my older siblings basically did the same thing to me from a young age.