18 ms·

Anxious tech workers are going to therapy

213 points by tysone 7y ago

Arubis 7y ago
Well, I mean... gestures vaguely at everything Life is hard enough already, and there's tools out there available that can help. If you have access, you should take advantage of it. I get that there's still stigma in some areas and cultures. Perhaps ironically, with some better social-mental-emotional-physiological tools, you might find that the stigma just doesn't concern you.
let_var 7y ago
Cord cutter since 2009 and social media quitter since 2015 here. LinkedIn and WhatsApp are sufficient to maintain professional network and personal ties. HN is interesting when you get to read some obscure articles.
nmnim 7y ago
Mark Fisher has a lot of really interesting things to say about socially induced mental illness that I think is relevant, particularly when considering pressure to derive personal identity and worth from your economic contribution: https://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841 https://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841
sjg007 7y ago
It is interesting to see the difference in the comments here vs those on the NYTimes. Here the focus is on digital minimalism. On the NYTimes they are focused on the article content which is the new SV model of appification applied to therapy or more generally self help. I see these apps as new approaches to the traditional self help market but for a new generation. These are people like Tim Ferris who follow the traditional model of publishing a book, but now blogs, youtube, tweets etc... Then there are entrepreneurs making apps focused on journaling etc.., screening tools / lead generation.. which are trending towards, at best, finding someone a therapist. Also the ACA opened up mental health resources payable by insurance so you also see health insurers developing web based tools as well. And you have the traditional therapists doing podcasts as well as video chat therapy etc... I personally find the podcasts valuable to help understand the theory. Still, in practice, it makes sense to see a human therapist, preferably one well trained to work through issues.
codesushi42 7y ago
Stop working 24/7 on useless apps/websites/digital shit that don't help anyone in any meaningful way. They won't amount to anything, except maybe make your boss rich (your manager, VC, or whoever else). Stop making it your life goal to get featured on trashy sites like TC/BI/PH/whatever other masturbatory tech outlet that no one outside of SV gives two shits about. Your goals and aspirations are probably meaningless. Get a grip and change it! Even if it means getting the fuck out of Dodge, be it SV, NYC or whichever tech bubble you happen to dwell in.
throwawaymlc 7y ago
I am finding the day to day experience of being a developer in a team / corporate environment quite taxing on mental health these days. Some issues are: JIRA / agile / whatever methodologies, so many metadata fields in the ticketing system that are all just matters of opinion. So much time spent hoarding and prioritizing "wishlist" items, and discussing which order to do things if, hypothetically, they were to be done... instead of actually doing them. Pull requests / code reviews - now that these are done in a web browser, there is no bar to having an opinion and having your two cents. As a developer, the pull request is something I produce after executing and debugging some code for a few days, but then I cant merge it until people are happy with how it looks, not how it works. Testing & documentation - everyone wants this, nobody can agree how it should work. It's in a constant state of "aspiration", a few broken / flakey test cases from the last attempt that slow down development, but provide no confidence in the safety of changes. You can improve the situation by writing new testcases and fixing old ones, but sooner or later someone will have an urgent change that they "know" is safe that breaks the test cases that they will merge anyway, and then it's back to square one. General poor quality work environment - open plan, long hours, noisy, some "interesting" characters. Very little scope to ever control your work environment. I find all these to be instances of cognitive dissonance, where there is a huge gulf between how people think things should work, and the actual, day-to-day reality of making a change. Somehow people are only interested in talking about some hypothetical future state, but nobody cares about how things are now and how to get there, and if you do, you are perceived as being "difficult".
- SamuelAdams 7y ago
  I hear goat farming is popular.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
> a couple of years ago, clients were coming in mostly because of personal issues, but that now they were reporting anxiety about global trends, like climate change and the rise of dictatorships. Yup. I'm increasingly considering doing the same. Climate change is really getting into my head these days. How do you deal with feeling there is no future?
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  In one of his essays on startups, Paul Graham said (quoting from memory): "One minute you're going to take over the world; the next you're doomed. The low points are worse than the high points, though, not because they feel worse but because they make you stop working." Despair can be self-fulfilling. Fight it. "Rage, rage against the dying of the light." > How do you deal with feeling there is no future? Well, I'm a Christian. I believe that there is a future for me, and it's not here. That doesn't make me uncaring about problems here, though. It lets me approach them without despair, even when I can't see how they can be solved.
AaronFriel 7y ago
Interested in working at a mental healthcare company that does in-person therapy with licensed clinicians? Two Chairs, mentioned in this article, is hiring! https://www.twochairs.com/careers/ https://www.twochairs.com/careers/
wonderwonder 7y ago
Social media has given us all echo chambers that we can be constantly connected to that shares all the things that scare or concern us every minute of every day. We follow people / channels that share our concerns so are constantly bombarded by them. We need to learn to just disconnect and focus on the real and whats in front of us. I can't tell you how many times I have sat down to do some work, looked a twitter for a minute and looked up an hour later severely depressed about the state of the world and angry over something I have zero impact on. Just unplugging from social media may really be the answer. Also In tech especially so many of us are always after the next job and raise that we are don't take time to establish roots and make friends. Isolation is an epidemic among tech workers.
readhn 7y ago
80 / 20 rules fellas. Spend your time only on 20% of things that bring you 80% of joy. Family, friends, awesome experiences that take your breath away, learning something new that you absolutely love. The rest is NOISE and is not important.
nyxtom 7y ago
Therapy is great. Excellent way to create some balance and regular introspection.
01100011 7y ago
Anyone else notice that it's hard to find a good therapist around Silicon Valley? It seems many of them are booked solid.
notacoward 7y ago
I wonder how many anxious NYT workers are going to therapy. No, seriously. All that stuff about "bummed out by the world and their role in it" certainly applies to them as well, plus probably more economic anxiety. We're destroying their business, not the other way around. And they don't get the perks we do either. People of many occupations are probably seeking out therapy more, for the same reasons. I wouldn't single tech out, unless I happened to be obsessively focused on writing about everything that might be wrong with tech.
tannhaeuser 7y ago
Ok do we really need to post every single NYT article on HN? Right now, there are 3 or more nytimes.com articles under news.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- whalesalad 7y ago
  Heh. They’re definitely a content farm these days. You’re not wrong.
vincent-toups 7y ago
Everyone should go to therapy. I don't think I've ever met a person who doesn't need to talk things out, from time to time, with a semi-objective, third party. Most of us were raised by imperfect people trying their best who still made a lot of mistakes. Even people who had really prepared parents probably experienced things which might have left us with some unresolved issues. Go see a therapist. Its not a big deal.
- okr 7y ago
  When someone says, that everyone should go to therapy, my first question is: who pays the therapist? If everyone goes to one, then an insurance to cover the costs does not really make sense anymore.
  - biztos 7y ago
    Everyone should go to the dentist, and many insurance policies pay for that. Insofar as it works, therapy is "preventive care" -- it should help you to live a healthier life, thus reducing your overall cost to the insurer. This gets tricky when we consider the frequency and cost of therapy. If you go every week, and a session costs $200 (not unreasonable in much of the world) then it's probably only coverable in a single-payer, "healthcare-is-a-human-right" system, and even then only after building a pro-therapy consensus that might be difficult. Because even if everyone should go to therapy, lots of people think they shouldn't.
- scarecrowbob 7y ago
  While I agree that most folks would benefit from counseling, I question that it's super useful to seek it out unless you have a specific goal in mind for the experience.
- exit_bag 7y ago
  are there any kind of online therapy options that are actually worthwhile? my past experiences w/ irl therapists were not very good & i think it'd be a lot easier to communicate effectively online without the stress that comes from things like eye contact etc. i think 8ch used to fill that roll for me but now it's gone and there's no one else to talk to & everything's spiraling out of control.
sharadov 7y ago
As usual, SV tech founders have a fix for all that ails mankind, one that takes a data-driven approach and is 10X effective!
- tomhoward 7y ago
  I've met the founders of one of the startups mentioned in the article. They're not from SV (or from the U.S.), and they'd hardly count as "tech workers". They're self-taught programmers who built their app in an effort to address their own anxiety, as well as a digestive illness that afflicts at least one of them, and for which university research has found hypnotherapy can be somewhat helpful (I have my own experience with these kinds of illnesses and therapies, which is why I took an interest). You can sneer all you like, but these guys are nothing like the "SV tech bro" stereotype you're invoking, and they're earnestly working on a profoundly important problem: huge and growing numbers of people in the world experiencing mental health challenges and many (or likely, most) of them don't have the proximity or financial means to access in-person professional therapy or mindfulness coaching.
- lemm 7y ago
  And conveniently enough allows them to make tons of money!
  - tomhoward 7y ago
    Most startups fail, and can often cause the founders to lose much/all their savings or go into personal debt. Where a startup beats the odds and starts to become successful, it needs to employ a lot of people (and generate other benefits for others, such as returns to investors and, oh yeah, valuable products to customers) before the founders can get personally rich. Occasionally it goes well enough for the founders to "make tons of money", but it's not the norm. In this case, founders of these companies will only "make tons of money" if they succeed in helping vast numbers of people overcome anxiety and other distressing states of existence. Of the founders I know who are working on one of these startups to help people overcome anxiety and ill health, if you could talk to them, and see the sincerity with which they are dedicated to building something that makes life better for troubled people, you wouldn’t dismiss them with such cynicism and snark.
computerphysics 7y ago
Why are they anxious? that's the question ... “There’s a lot of anxiety. How could you not have that? Tech companies are fueling some of the most egregious human-rights abuses.”
- nsxwolf 7y ago
  How many of us work for a company fueling egregious human-rights abuses? I work for a company that just sells handbags and stuff. My anxiety is about deadlines and such.
- nickthemagicman 7y ago
  I think its more the nature of the work. Ambiguous time required to solve a problem. Constantly changing tools and disposable knowledge base. Disposable output. etc.
crsmithdev 7y ago
Shocked that a normal and healthy practice that should be done more by more and different kinds of people is big news to the NYT, because tech. Watching the NYT (and others) from within tech over the past few years has done more to destroy any trust in mass media than anything else in my lifetime.
- webwielder2 7y ago
  The NYT banging the Iraq war drum back in 2002-03 was enough for me to develop terminal cynicism about that particular august institution.
  - leonroy 7y ago
    The Economist wasn’t great either. Around 02-03 I distinctly remember them raving at the effective political strategy of the Bush administration in bangig the drums of war as a ruse to bring Saddam Hussein to the negotiating table. It was apparent to even a kid like me that war was all the White House wanted. Every rag has its issues. The pieces are written by people and edited by more people in turn. It’s more about reading the least worst of a bad bunch. NYT and FT are in that category for me at least.
  - crsmithdev 7y ago
    Yes, that was the start of it for me, seeing that going on while understanding exactly how much BS it was at the time. Then the 2016 elections (and constant fumbling to get any story right since) and this finished the job.
  - wry_discontent 7y ago
    The NYT is one of the primary targets of Manufacturing Consent. That book changed how I see the media. I still read NYT pretty regularly, but I definitely see it differently.
  - nabnob 7y ago
    The NYT tried very hard to prevent one of their journalists from publishing a story critical of the CIA and the Bush administration - https://theintercept.com/2018/01/03/my-life-as-a-new-york-times-reporter-in-the-shadow-of-the-war-on-terror/ https://theintercept.com/2018/01/03/my-life-as-a-new-york-ti... It's been a while since I read this article, but I believe James Risen also talked about government employees working with the NYT to publish pre-approved "leaks".
xkde 7y ago
“I deleted all the news off my phone.” Found your problem.
birdfeeder210 7y ago
Working at startups lead me to tears over stress a few times and one boss, knowing I broke down that same day, would ask me "you're okay to continue working today right?". Thankfully I was young, had no kids, and decided my mental health was worth more than an underpaid job to make a few people rich and so I left that company. Some people who worked there longer than I did still justify the time they spent working in conditions like that. Some people I worked with there barely spent any time with their families. Oh, but it was "all worth it for the company!"... they would claim. Get help if you need it and remember that no one is worth working for if they degrade your mental health. No one.
- itronitron 7y ago
  Did you get upset those times because you cared about your job or coworkers and would you still care about the same things if you were in the same situation again? I ask because I think it takes time for people to get perspective (managers included) and employers often work on getting their employees to lose perspective.
erokar 7y ago
If your job is making you unhappy, therapy will just be a band-aid. The solution is to quit and find something better to do.
- anthony_romeo 7y ago
  Perhaps, but therapy might also provide a motivational boost to take that action. I suspect that depressed and anxious people tend to have difficulty finding the path forward.
- skizm 7y ago
  Where can I find someone that will pay me a living wage to read fantasy novels, go to the gym, play video games, and occasionally travel?
  - pcbro141 7y ago
    Try posting some vlog type of videos on YouTube. You don't need to have a super huge following to make good money on YouTube.
  - exit_bag 7y ago
    i will get rich and pay you to be my friend but you have to play jrpgs sometimes and be nice to me. or maybe just kill me in my sleep that'd be ok too.
  - paulcarroty 7y ago
    Writing fantasy novels, fitness programs, games and travel reviews?
  - Gh0stRAT 7y ago
    Sounds like some kind of Witness Protection program.
  - dbcurtis 7y ago
    A friend of mine was a video game producer for about 15 years... kinds sounds like his job?? Except he was a dad and not a gym rat, YMMV.
CalRobert 7y ago
Every minute spent not fighting climate apocalypse is a fucking waste of time. And I waste most of my time, because I can't find a way to fight while staying solvent (this month I'm buying a roof to fix the leaky one, for instance). In another thread the clathrate gun is about to go off big time https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21026051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21026051 Anxiety is pretty warranted when you're literally looking at the end of civilization, and possibly an early, horrible death for you, or infinitely more sadly, your kid.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  The world isn't ending. It's probably not a bad idea for you to talk to someone.
- Ascetik 7y ago
  >Every minute spent not fighting climate apocalypse is a bleep waste of time. Are you being serious? I genuinely can't tell.
- thatfrenchguy 7y ago
  Careful about the “end of civilization”, global warming is the most important challenge of our generation but media outlet sensationalism exaggerate a lot of things (notably the clathrate gun and other things, which are not widely accepted). Read the last IPCC reports instead of randos from the internet: https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    Thanks - my concern is that the IPCC reports appear to be too conservative, possibly not modeling feedback effects enough. We're tracking around the worst case scenarios presented in the 2015 report so far.
    - 7y ago
dlphn___xyz 7y ago
the workers arent the problem and therapy isnt the answer - workers shouldn’t feel afraid to set boundaries to prevent being exploited or abused.
- taurath 7y ago
  Therapy can help you recognize and set boundaries.
  - dlphn___xyz 7y ago
    you dont need therapy to know your own personal limits. you also shouldn't take advice from someone who doesn't have a stake in your success (i.e. win or lose you're still a patient)
- mindsetalex 7y ago
  What if we’re the founders? It’s hard to set boundaries from your company when you ARE the company.
  - dlphn___xyz 7y ago
    a founder has far more leverage vs a waged worker
skizm 7y ago
Anxious tech workers can afford therapy. A lot of the rest of the working world is just as, if not more, anxious. Our entire lives, sans 4 weeks or so a year, are dedicated to doing stuff we don't really care about, but there is no alternative.
- ericmcer 7y ago
  This was the main thing for me as well. "tech employees who long ago fused their sense of self-worth to their work." That could easily apply to any industry, just a reality of the world today that work consumes most of your time/energy, and most people are not entirely in love with your work. I have noticed recently that time off or vacation time makes working harder, like my brain realizes what life could be for an instant and rebels before getting back to the grind.
whalesalad 7y ago
I deleted all my tweets. Killed the app. Killed the Reddit app. Killed Instagram. Killed Facebook. I need to reactivate FB and do a dump of my data, but I’m dreading that. I just want the photos. I’m finding solace in boredom and using that as a catalyst for change. I’ve been reading more, already finished three books in the last few weeks. I’m on a mission to pour rocket fuel on my personal consulting business. I’m also seeing a psych and a psychotherapist. It’s helping, albeit slowly. Eliminate cognitive load. Eliminate distractions. Eliminate things from your life that don’t bring you joy and happiness. Do it. Rip it off like a bandaid. Every little minuscule things counts and adds up to the “death by a thousand cuts” anxiety ridden life we are all enduring. Ignite a fire in the forest that is your life and let all the shit burn to the ground. The big strong redwoods will remain. Don’t be afraid to seek help from professionals. We are only on this earth for one life. I only get to watch the Super Bowl maybe 30 more times. I only get to own so many more vehicles. I only get to spend time with my dogs for so long. It’s not just tech workers. Everyone is struggling. Be good to yourself.
- gerbilly 7y ago
  > deleted all my tweets. Killed the app. Killed the Reddit app. Killed Instagram. Killed Facebook. I agree with the bulk of your comment, but I couldn't help but notice... If the solution is to not use all these apps, apps that are being developed by those very same anxious workers, what does it say about silicon valley's sunny optimism that they are changing the world for the better? Does anyone else feel it's paradoxical?
  - dfsegoat 7y ago
    It became paradoxical as soon as you could step outside the offices of SomeTechCo.(ly) in SF., and literally find the sidewalk littered with homeless humans, human waste and needles. I'm not saying there is any correlation. Merely that if tech companies in the SF Bay area cared about 'making a difference' - there is ample opportunity to do so, literally outside their door.
  - whalesalad 7y ago
    > silicon valley's sunny optimism This is all marketing hype speak from the type-a extrovert hustlers at the top. No sane person truly believes things like FB etc... are changing the world.
notus 7y ago
While I think everyone can benefit from therapy, that tagline "Bummed out by the world and their role in it, tech workers are seeking help — and founding some start-ups along the way." seems a little off. I thought it was due to stress of working not being bummed out by being near the top of the financial ladder relative to the rest of the world and having flexible jobs.
viburnum 7y ago
Most therapists are well-meaning but have no idea what they’re doing. You’re just paying somebody to be your friend for 50 minutes a week. A competent therapist should help you get results in 6-8 sessions, faster if they really know what they’re doing. If you seeing a therapist and you’re not getting results, you’re wasting your money.
- Arubis 7y ago
  Solution-focused brief therapy is great and highly effective. It's also not the only thing out there. If you're marching into a therapist's office unknowingly presenting a personality disorder and expecting your life to feel wildly different next month, you're just going to be bouncing therapists and blaming them for the next couple years.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- taurath 7y ago
  A very cynical take - it seems you're taken from the place where a therapist to many people is like a doctor's visit. Figure out what the problem is, fix it, and then move on. Maybe that works if you only have one problem. Maybe that works if you have nothing fundamental and deep down to get over. Our society doesn't offer many places for people to feel safe truly opening up emotionally. It can take people a very long time, and sometimes it takes 5 sessions just to build up enough trust to start to scratch the surface of whats really going wrong. I wish your comment was empathetic towards things like that, but instead it feels dismissive, and I'd worry it makes people second guess going to therapy, or starting. Most therapists can help anyone. The right one for you can be life changing. Don't give up finding one, even if your first, second or third don't get you as far as you need to go. It probably took decades to get you to where you are, don't quit after a few weeks trying to work on it.
  - viburnum 7y ago
    If it takes your therapist four hours for you to feel comfortable opening up, they are a bad therapist.
Raphmedia 7y ago
The best way I can describe therapy to a tech oriented person is this: Therapy is rubber-ducking for your brain and thinking patterns. Sure, you can figure the bugs by yourself but you often get stuck in your ways of thinking which make you blind to them. The therapist is the equivalent of a senior brain & behavior engineer. Use them, talk to them. Talk about your quirks and your bugs. You may think you have a perfect solution, but that solution is most likely flawed. You wouldn't expect a software to debug itself. You wouldn't expect a junior to fix huge breaking issues.
- tiborsaas 7y ago
  I never been to therapy or talked to a psychologist, but I want to. What I'm afraid of is that I might pick a wrong "brain and mind engineer" and it might take a while and a lot of money to realize it only to go back to square one. I found one recently, but after my second email she just replied that she's overbooked. I have issues with rejection among other things :)
  - tikhonj 7y ago
    I was in a similar situation, and at some point I just realized that I was better off seeing some therapist rather than trying to guess the best one. So I just found one that was within walking distance and had time available. It worked out well in my case. If the first one doesn't work out, they might recommend somebody more suited for you specifically or, in the worst case, you can just repeat the process above. Unless you can get a recommendation from somebody you know, I think this is the best option. It's usually better to do something than to do nothing :).
  - Raphmedia 7y ago
    Going to a therapist that you don't like isn't a setback. It's getting closer to being aware of which kind of therapy is good for you. It's perfectly okay to jump around. The first appointments are usually going to be freeform discussions, so you'll be able to see if there's a connection.
viburnum 7y ago
Some problems are better addressed collectively than individually. Work stress in particular.
- Porthos9K 7y ago
  It sounds like you're talking union. I agree.
cicciop 7y ago
As somebody who's recently started going to therapy (and a tech worker), I'm skeptical that apps will help -- most of the point is being able to talk to a real person, in a real place, and get honest feedback. This said, therapy is not as "modern" as people think. Catholic confession has been around for literally millennia, and it basically had that same role: one guy will listen to your deepest thoughts and shames, absolve you from guilt, and discuss ways for you to be a better person. It's just that we now know how to do it without all the religious baggage.
- chrisnaoumidis 7y ago
  Yeah it's really hard to replicate the feeling of being in a room with someone and talking through specific situations in your life. Talk therapy (and probably all therapy) is better in person, but there's value in being able to do some home exercises and sessions as well even if it doesn't replace therapy. There are other therapy approaches which are more suited to be delivered through a phone. Something that we've seen work really well is teaching coping skills, mental models and different perspectives. It's much less about focusing on your past and life situations, and more about actionable skills that you can learn to manage mental health issues.
deleted 7y ago
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Porthos9K 7y ago
I am this close to just printing out all the crap I've ever written, getting rid of all my digital tech, and buying a restored mechanical typewriter so I can keep writing crappy sf that nobody will ever read without having to resort to using a pen. Fuck tech. Bring on the Butlerian Jihad!
rblion 7y ago
Seven ayahuasca ceremonies and two bufo ceremonies over the course of 2 years changed my life. I experienced a paradigm shift and healed a lot of repressed trauma, let go of a lot of internal drama. I feel I got to the root of the issue and built a solid foundation upon mindfulness and compassion. Every day I work to train my mind to be one-pointed while keeping my heart open towards all, even those who wish me harm. Forgiveness for myself and towards others is the most powerful medicine I've ever known. We are all human, yet so many people judge so harshly. I've learned that the energy expended upon blame/shame is not worth it compared to the energy recycled by forgiving and forgetting. I wish more people realized this, this simple truth could transform the whole world. I've quit smoking weed, drinking, vaping nicotine, eating meat, porn. This is a big deal for me at age 29, I didn't think I'd ever be able to let all these vices go. I've started to wake up at 5am everyday (most days without an alarm). I feel grateful as I brush my now straight teeth (they were crooked 2 years ago). I like how I look and feel, this natural confidence attracts women I thought were 'out of my league' not too long ago. I spend my mornings working towards my highest aspiration of spreading good by design through my agency/consultancy. Under this umbrella, I have started to improve my skills as a developer to build products/platforms that I feel should exist that don't. I read books/articles by people who have done the things I aspire to do and offer concrete principles to help me keep evolving. I got rid of my smartphone, don't miss it to be honest. I use my Sony a6000 for photography now. I don't use Facebook at all, use Instagram only to see nature photography (a few interesting people I admire), use reddit and twitter to keep up with my interests (culled most of my feed in both down to high-signal, low-noise). I'm just happy to be alive. I was morbidly depressed in May 2017. I was feeling like a loser for not getting into YC, for getting laid off, for not having a degree, for not being married like most people my age in my culture, for being a joke to many people I grew up around. I don't care about any of that anymore, I am a victor, not a victim! I'll shut up now. Hopefully this helps someone out there struggling, we are all in this together.
- cheeko1234 7y ago
  I keep reading about ayahuasca. Care to elaborate on how/where, etc. I've been using thc as self-medication for a decade and decided to quit cold turkey, and my anxiety and self-doubt is through the roof. I know the baggage is coming from childhood, but I'm not sure how to solve it.
bytematic 7y ago
I wonder when tech shops are going to start getting performance coach therapists like hedge funds.
jondwillis 7y ago
Coincidental; going to therapy for the first time today.
- chrisnaoumidis 7y ago
  Good luck! Hope you enjoy it and it helps :)
papito 7y ago
There is no difference between drinking booze and staring at your phone. Both are used to shut off the thoughts bouncing in your head and escape your problems if only for a bit - except with a phone you can do it all the time, while walking, while waiting in a coffee line. It's an addiction just like any other.
mlthoughts2018 7y ago
I have a hard time believing the issues bringing people to therapy have changed towards global crises and dictatorships and politics, in these company worker cohorts. I think it’s really just that the employers treat workers badly and don’t pay them enough to escape personal life anxieties in the super expensive urban areas they are requires to live in for these jobs. Bait & switch jobs, stalled out career progress, salaries that seem high on paper but don’t go far at all, insane open-plan offices whipping up anxieties all day every day, disallowed to pursue good craftsmanship.
cubano 7y ago
Does anyone here have any experience with the Psych On Demand-type services that promise professional therapy like LARKR or Talkspace and the like? $85 for 50 minutes seems quite reasonable and I have been wanting to try it but wanted to hear from other tech professionals before paying the money I barely have. I know I could use use therapy, although the fabulous graduate-level textbook I once read that I believe nailed the root cause of my issues (deep neglect as an infant) basically said that the only "cure" to most of my issues would be to, and I paraphrase here, to constantly reinforce that I am no longer a helpless child and I need to take control of my decisions as an adult. Also, the book postulated that deep early-childhood trauma is one of the most devastating things that can happen to person and could very well be the primary driver of addiction later in life, and I remember quite clearly that the author (a German lady from the 20's if I remember correctly) said that it would be better to be addicted to heroin then to be neglected as an infant. I read the book while in prison, so I am unable, thankfully, to figure out the author or ISBN number, but I sure wish I could find it again.
- 49531 7y ago
  You can usually find a therapist for a similar rate ($80-$100)/hr, or if you're lucky enough to have insurance that covers therapy, you can get it for less. I currently only pay a co-pay of $25/hr.
- dfraser992 7y ago
  You should find this interesting/useful as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby I have Bowlby's books as well, so can recommend them. Based on my experience, any therapist ought to be able to offer a reduced rate - the first session or at least inquiry can be used to establish such things. And I'd recommend trying to see someone in person vs. over the Net, if possible, but that has its own drawbacks (transportation etc)
  - nmnim 7y ago
    He also might be thinking of Mary Ainsworth who was an early attachment theorist with John Bowlby? Although not German.
wufufufu 7y ago
If I was to experiment with inducing anxiety in mice, one of the things I would try is strapping it to a chair in-front of a backlit screen for 8 hours a day five days a week.
tracer4201 7y ago
Is this worse at specific companies? I heard great anecdotes from friends at Google. Amazon I haven’t heard many positive things about, although I saw the NYT piece years ago but dont trust them as an outlet.
csours 7y ago
My primary motivation is learning things and doing things the right way. In tech, I feel like I will never know everything, and in fact I never know "enough" - there's always some little setting or error or gremlin that will get me. Thus I can't do things the "right way" because my programs will break. This is a source of great anxiety for me. Yes I know there are software principles that help with this like KISS and YAGNI, but I have a hard time internalizing them. I used to work in construction, and tasks were largely repetitive. I knew the "right" way to do nearly all of my tasks, and I was able to complete them well. That drives a feeling of accomplishment that I don't have in tech.
- deleted 7y ago
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213 points by tysone 7y ago

Well, I mean... gestures vaguely at everything Life is hard enough already, and there's tools out there available that can help. If you have access, you should take advantage of it. I get that there's still stigma in some areas and cultures. Perhaps ironically, with some better social-mental-emotional-physiological tools, you might find that the stigma just doesn't concern you.

let_var 7y ago

Cord cutter since 2009 and social media quitter since 2015 here. LinkedIn and WhatsApp are sufficient to maintain professional network and personal ties. HN is interesting when you get to read some obscure articles.

nmnim 7y ago

Mark Fisher has a lot of really interesting things to say about socially induced mental illness that I think is relevant, particularly when considering pressure to derive personal identity and worth from your economic contribution: https://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841 https://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841

sjg007 7y ago

It is interesting to see the difference in the comments here vs those on the NYTimes. Here the focus is on digital minimalism. On the NYTimes they are focused on the article content which is the new SV model of appification applied to therapy or more generally self help. I see these apps as new approaches to the traditional self help market but for a new generation. These are people like Tim Ferris who follow the traditional model of publishing a book, but now blogs, youtube, tweets etc... Then there are entrepreneurs making apps focused on journaling etc.., screening tools / lead generation.. which are trending towards, at best, finding someone a therapist. Also the ACA opened up mental health resources payable by insurance so you also see health insurers developing web based tools as well. And you have the traditional therapists doing podcasts as well as video chat therapy etc... I personally find the podcasts valuable to help understand the theory. Still, in practice, it makes sense to see a human therapist, preferably one well trained to work through issues.

codesushi42 7y ago

Stop working 24/7 on useless apps/websites/digital shit that don't help anyone in any meaningful way. They won't amount to anything, except maybe make your boss rich (your manager, VC, or whoever else). Stop making it your life goal to get featured on trashy sites like TC/BI/PH/whatever other masturbatory tech outlet that no one outside of SV gives two shits about. Your goals and aspirations are probably meaningless. Get a grip and change it! Even if it means getting the fuck out of Dodge, be it SV, NYC or whichever tech bubble you happen to dwell in.

throwawaymlc 7y ago

I am finding the day to day experience of being a developer in a team / corporate environment quite taxing on mental health these days. Some issues are: JIRA / agile / whatever methodologies, so many metadata fields in the ticketing system that are all just matters of opinion. So much time spent hoarding and prioritizing "wishlist" items, and discussing which order to do things if, hypothetically, they were to be done... instead of actually doing them. Pull requests / code reviews - now that these are done in a web browser, there is no bar to having an opinion and having your two cents. As a developer, the pull request is something I produce after executing and debugging some code for a few days, but then I cant merge it until people are happy with how it looks, not how it works. Testing & documentation - everyone wants this, nobody can agree how it should work. It's in a constant state of "aspiration", a few broken / flakey test cases from the last attempt that slow down development, but provide no confidence in the safety of changes. You can improve the situation by writing new testcases and fixing old ones, but sooner or later someone will have an urgent change that they "know" is safe that breaks the test cases that they will merge anyway, and then it's back to square one. General poor quality work environment - open plan, long hours, noisy, some "interesting" characters. Very little scope to ever control your work environment. I find all these to be instances of cognitive dissonance, where there is a huge gulf between how people think things should work, and the actual, day-to-day reality of making a change. Somehow people are only interested in talking about some hypothetical future state, but nobody cares about how things are now and how to get there, and if you do, you are perceived as being "difficult".

SamuelAdams 7y ago
I hear goat farming is popular.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

> a couple of years ago, clients were coming in mostly because of personal issues, but that now they were reporting anxiety about global trends, like climate change and the rise of dictatorships. Yup. I'm increasingly considering doing the same. Climate change is really getting into my head these days. How do you deal with feeling there is no future?

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
In one of his essays on startups, Paul Graham said (quoting from memory): "One minute you're going to take over the world; the next you're doomed. The low points are worse than the high points, though, not because they feel worse but because they make you stop working." Despair can be self-fulfilling. Fight it. "Rage, rage against the dying of the light." > How do you deal with feeling there is no future? Well, I'm a Christian. I believe that there is a future for me, and it's not here. That doesn't make me uncaring about problems here, though. It lets me approach them without despair, even when I can't see how they can be solved.

AaronFriel 7y ago

Interested in working at a mental healthcare company that does in-person therapy with licensed clinicians? Two Chairs, mentioned in this article, is hiring! https://www.twochairs.com/careers/ https://www.twochairs.com/careers/

wonderwonder 7y ago

Social media has given us all echo chambers that we can be constantly connected to that shares all the things that scare or concern us every minute of every day. We follow people / channels that share our concerns so are constantly bombarded by them. We need to learn to just disconnect and focus on the real and whats in front of us. I can't tell you how many times I have sat down to do some work, looked a twitter for a minute and looked up an hour later severely depressed about the state of the world and angry over something I have zero impact on. Just unplugging from social media may really be the answer. Also In tech especially so many of us are always after the next job and raise that we are don't take time to establish roots and make friends. Isolation is an epidemic among tech workers.

readhn 7y ago

80 / 20 rules fellas. Spend your time only on 20% of things that bring you 80% of joy. Family, friends, awesome experiences that take your breath away, learning something new that you absolutely love. The rest is NOISE and is not important.

nyxtom 7y ago

Therapy is great. Excellent way to create some balance and regular introspection.

01100011 7y ago

Anyone else notice that it's hard to find a good therapist around Silicon Valley? It seems many of them are booked solid.

notacoward 7y ago

I wonder how many anxious NYT workers are going to therapy. No, seriously. All that stuff about "bummed out by the world and their role in it" certainly applies to them as well, plus probably more economic anxiety. We're destroying their business, not the other way around. And they don't get the perks we do either. People of many occupations are probably seeking out therapy more, for the same reasons. I wouldn't single tech out, unless I happened to be obsessively focused on writing about everything that might be wrong with tech.

tannhaeuser 7y ago

Ok do we really need to post every single NYT article on HN? Right now, there are 3 or more nytimes.com articles under news.

deleted 7y ago
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whalesalad 7y ago
Heh. They’re definitely a content farm these days. You’re not wrong.

vincent-toups 7y ago

Everyone should go to therapy. I don't think I've ever met a person who doesn't need to talk things out, from time to time, with a semi-objective, third party. Most of us were raised by imperfect people trying their best who still made a lot of mistakes. Even people who had really prepared parents probably experienced things which might have left us with some unresolved issues. Go see a therapist. Its not a big deal.

okr 7y ago
When someone says, that everyone should go to therapy, my first question is: who pays the therapist? If everyone goes to one, then an insurance to cover the costs does not really make sense anymore.
- biztos 7y ago
  Everyone should go to the dentist, and many insurance policies pay for that. Insofar as it works, therapy is "preventive care" -- it should help you to live a healthier life, thus reducing your overall cost to the insurer. This gets tricky when we consider the frequency and cost of therapy. If you go every week, and a session costs $200 (not unreasonable in much of the world) then it's probably only coverable in a single-payer, "healthcare-is-a-human-right" system, and even then only after building a pro-therapy consensus that might be difficult. Because even if everyone should go to therapy, lots of people think they shouldn't.
scarecrowbob 7y ago
While I agree that most folks would benefit from counseling, I question that it's super useful to seek it out unless you have a specific goal in mind for the experience.
exit_bag 7y ago
are there any kind of online therapy options that are actually worthwhile? my past experiences w/ irl therapists were not very good & i think it'd be a lot easier to communicate effectively online without the stress that comes from things like eye contact etc. i think 8ch used to fill that roll for me but now it's gone and there's no one else to talk to & everything's spiraling out of control.

sharadov 7y ago

As usual, SV tech founders have a fix for all that ails mankind, one that takes a data-driven approach and is 10X effective!

tomhoward 7y ago
I've met the founders of one of the startups mentioned in the article. They're not from SV (or from the U.S.), and they'd hardly count as "tech workers". They're self-taught programmers who built their app in an effort to address their own anxiety, as well as a digestive illness that afflicts at least one of them, and for which university research has found hypnotherapy can be somewhat helpful (I have my own experience with these kinds of illnesses and therapies, which is why I took an interest). You can sneer all you like, but these guys are nothing like the "SV tech bro" stereotype you're invoking, and they're earnestly working on a profoundly important problem: huge and growing numbers of people in the world experiencing mental health challenges and many (or likely, most) of them don't have the proximity or financial means to access in-person professional therapy or mindfulness coaching.
lemm 7y ago
And conveniently enough allows them to make tons of money!
- tomhoward 7y ago
  Most startups fail, and can often cause the founders to lose much/all their savings or go into personal debt. Where a startup beats the odds and starts to become successful, it needs to employ a lot of people (and generate other benefits for others, such as returns to investors and, oh yeah, valuable products to customers) before the founders can get personally rich. Occasionally it goes well enough for the founders to "make tons of money", but it's not the norm. In this case, founders of these companies will only "make tons of money" if they succeed in helping vast numbers of people overcome anxiety and other distressing states of existence. Of the founders I know who are working on one of these startups to help people overcome anxiety and ill health, if you could talk to them, and see the sincerity with which they are dedicated to building something that makes life better for troubled people, you wouldn’t dismiss them with such cynicism and snark.

computerphysics 7y ago

Why are they anxious? that's the question ... “There’s a lot of anxiety. How could you not have that? Tech companies are fueling some of the most egregious human-rights abuses.”

nsxwolf 7y ago
How many of us work for a company fueling egregious human-rights abuses? I work for a company that just sells handbags and stuff. My anxiety is about deadlines and such.
nickthemagicman 7y ago
I think its more the nature of the work. Ambiguous time required to solve a problem. Constantly changing tools and disposable knowledge base. Disposable output. etc.

crsmithdev 7y ago

Shocked that a normal and healthy practice that should be done more by more and different kinds of people is big news to the NYT, because tech. Watching the NYT (and others) from within tech over the past few years has done more to destroy any trust in mass media than anything else in my lifetime.

webwielder2 7y ago
The NYT banging the Iraq war drum back in 2002-03 was enough for me to develop terminal cynicism about that particular august institution.
- leonroy 7y ago
  The Economist wasn’t great either. Around 02-03 I distinctly remember them raving at the effective political strategy of the Bush administration in bangig the drums of war as a ruse to bring Saddam Hussein to the negotiating table. It was apparent to even a kid like me that war was all the White House wanted. Every rag has its issues. The pieces are written by people and edited by more people in turn. It’s more about reading the least worst of a bad bunch. NYT and FT are in that category for me at least.
- crsmithdev 7y ago
  Yes, that was the start of it for me, seeing that going on while understanding exactly how much BS it was at the time. Then the 2016 elections (and constant fumbling to get any story right since) and this finished the job.
- wry_discontent 7y ago
  The NYT is one of the primary targets of Manufacturing Consent. That book changed how I see the media. I still read NYT pretty regularly, but I definitely see it differently.
- nabnob 7y ago
  The NYT tried very hard to prevent one of their journalists from publishing a story critical of the CIA and the Bush administration - https://theintercept.com/2018/01/03/my-life-as-a-new-york-times-reporter-in-the-shadow-of-the-war-on-terror/ https://theintercept.com/2018/01/03/my-life-as-a-new-york-ti... It's been a while since I read this article, but I believe James Risen also talked about government employees working with the NYT to publish pre-approved "leaks".

xkde 7y ago

“I deleted all the news off my phone.” Found your problem.

birdfeeder210 7y ago

Working at startups lead me to tears over stress a few times and one boss, knowing I broke down that same day, would ask me "you're okay to continue working today right?". Thankfully I was young, had no kids, and decided my mental health was worth more than an underpaid job to make a few people rich and so I left that company. Some people who worked there longer than I did still justify the time they spent working in conditions like that. Some people I worked with there barely spent any time with their families. Oh, but it was "all worth it for the company!"... they would claim. Get help if you need it and remember that no one is worth working for if they degrade your mental health. No one.

itronitron 7y ago
Did you get upset those times because you cared about your job or coworkers and would you still care about the same things if you were in the same situation again? I ask because I think it takes time for people to get perspective (managers included) and employers often work on getting their employees to lose perspective.

erokar 7y ago

If your job is making you unhappy, therapy will just be a band-aid. The solution is to quit and find something better to do.

anthony_romeo 7y ago
Perhaps, but therapy might also provide a motivational boost to take that action. I suspect that depressed and anxious people tend to have difficulty finding the path forward.
skizm 7y ago
Where can I find someone that will pay me a living wage to read fantasy novels, go to the gym, play video games, and occasionally travel?
- pcbro141 7y ago
  Try posting some vlog type of videos on YouTube. You don't need to have a super huge following to make good money on YouTube.
- exit_bag 7y ago
  i will get rich and pay you to be my friend but you have to play jrpgs sometimes and be nice to me. or maybe just kill me in my sleep that'd be ok too.
- paulcarroty 7y ago
  Writing fantasy novels, fitness programs, games and travel reviews?
- Gh0stRAT 7y ago
  Sounds like some kind of Witness Protection program.
- dbcurtis 7y ago
  A friend of mine was a video game producer for about 15 years... kinds sounds like his job?? Except he was a dad and not a gym rat, YMMV.

CalRobert 7y ago

Every minute spent not fighting climate apocalypse is a fucking waste of time. And I waste most of my time, because I can't find a way to fight while staying solvent (this month I'm buying a roof to fix the leaky one, for instance). In another thread the clathrate gun is about to go off big time https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21026051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21026051 Anxiety is pretty warranted when you're literally looking at the end of civilization, and possibly an early, horrible death for you, or infinitely more sadly, your kid.

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BurningFrog 7y ago
The world isn't ending. It's probably not a bad idea for you to talk to someone.
Ascetik 7y ago
>Every minute spent not fighting climate apocalypse is a bleep waste of time. Are you being serious? I genuinely can't tell.
thatfrenchguy 7y ago
Careful about the “end of civilization”, global warming is the most important challenge of our generation but media outlet sensationalism exaggerate a lot of things (notably the clathrate gun and other things, which are not widely accepted). Read the last IPCC reports instead of randos from the internet: https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Thanks - my concern is that the IPCC reports appear to be too conservative, possibly not modeling feedback effects enough. We're tracking around the worst case scenarios presented in the 2015 report so far.
  - 7y ago

dlphn___xyz 7y ago

the workers arent the problem and therapy isnt the answer - workers shouldn’t feel afraid to set boundaries to prevent being exploited or abused.

taurath 7y ago
Therapy can help you recognize and set boundaries.
- dlphn___xyz 7y ago
  you dont need therapy to know your own personal limits. you also shouldn't take advice from someone who doesn't have a stake in your success (i.e. win or lose you're still a patient)
mindsetalex 7y ago
What if we’re the founders? It’s hard to set boundaries from your company when you ARE the company.
- dlphn___xyz 7y ago
  a founder has far more leverage vs a waged worker

skizm 7y ago

Anxious tech workers can afford therapy. A lot of the rest of the working world is just as, if not more, anxious. Our entire lives, sans 4 weeks or so a year, are dedicated to doing stuff we don't really care about, but there is no alternative.

ericmcer 7y ago
This was the main thing for me as well. "tech employees who long ago fused their sense of self-worth to their work." That could easily apply to any industry, just a reality of the world today that work consumes most of your time/energy, and most people are not entirely in love with your work. I have noticed recently that time off or vacation time makes working harder, like my brain realizes what life could be for an instant and rebels before getting back to the grind.

whalesalad 7y ago

I deleted all my tweets. Killed the app. Killed the Reddit app. Killed Instagram. Killed Facebook. I need to reactivate FB and do a dump of my data, but I’m dreading that. I just want the photos. I’m finding solace in boredom and using that as a catalyst for change. I’ve been reading more, already finished three books in the last few weeks. I’m on a mission to pour rocket fuel on my personal consulting business. I’m also seeing a psych and a psychotherapist. It’s helping, albeit slowly. Eliminate cognitive load. Eliminate distractions. Eliminate things from your life that don’t bring you joy and happiness. Do it. Rip it off like a bandaid. Every little minuscule things counts and adds up to the “death by a thousand cuts” anxiety ridden life we are all enduring. Ignite a fire in the forest that is your life and let all the shit burn to the ground. The big strong redwoods will remain. Don’t be afraid to seek help from professionals. We are only on this earth for one life. I only get to watch the Super Bowl maybe 30 more times. I only get to own so many more vehicles. I only get to spend time with my dogs for so long. It’s not just tech workers. Everyone is struggling. Be good to yourself.

gerbilly 7y ago
> deleted all my tweets. Killed the app. Killed the Reddit app. Killed Instagram. Killed Facebook. I agree with the bulk of your comment, but I couldn't help but notice... If the solution is to not use all these apps, apps that are being developed by those very same anxious workers, what does it say about silicon valley's sunny optimism that they are changing the world for the better? Does anyone else feel it's paradoxical?
- dfsegoat 7y ago
  It became paradoxical as soon as you could step outside the offices of SomeTechCo.(ly) in SF., and literally find the sidewalk littered with homeless humans, human waste and needles. I'm not saying there is any correlation. Merely that if tech companies in the SF Bay area cared about 'making a difference' - there is ample opportunity to do so, literally outside their door.
- whalesalad 7y ago
  > silicon valley's sunny optimism This is all marketing hype speak from the type-a extrovert hustlers at the top. No sane person truly believes things like FB etc... are changing the world.

notus 7y ago

While I think everyone can benefit from therapy, that tagline "Bummed out by the world and their role in it, tech workers are seeking help — and founding some start-ups along the way." seems a little off. I thought it was due to stress of working not being bummed out by being near the top of the financial ladder relative to the rest of the world and having flexible jobs.

viburnum 7y ago

Most therapists are well-meaning but have no idea what they’re doing. You’re just paying somebody to be your friend for 50 minutes a week. A competent therapist should help you get results in 6-8 sessions, faster if they really know what they’re doing. If you seeing a therapist and you’re not getting results, you’re wasting your money.

Arubis 7y ago
Solution-focused brief therapy is great and highly effective. It's also not the only thing out there. If you're marching into a therapist's office unknowingly presenting a personality disorder and expecting your life to feel wildly different next month, you're just going to be bouncing therapists and blaming them for the next couple years.
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taurath 7y ago
A very cynical take - it seems you're taken from the place where a therapist to many people is like a doctor's visit. Figure out what the problem is, fix it, and then move on. Maybe that works if you only have one problem. Maybe that works if you have nothing fundamental and deep down to get over. Our society doesn't offer many places for people to feel safe truly opening up emotionally. It can take people a very long time, and sometimes it takes 5 sessions just to build up enough trust to start to scratch the surface of whats really going wrong. I wish your comment was empathetic towards things like that, but instead it feels dismissive, and I'd worry it makes people second guess going to therapy, or starting. Most therapists can help anyone. The right one for you can be life changing. Don't give up finding one, even if your first, second or third don't get you as far as you need to go. It probably took decades to get you to where you are, don't quit after a few weeks trying to work on it.
- viburnum 7y ago
  If it takes your therapist four hours for you to feel comfortable opening up, they are a bad therapist.

Raphmedia 7y ago

The best way I can describe therapy to a tech oriented person is this: Therapy is rubber-ducking for your brain and thinking patterns. Sure, you can figure the bugs by yourself but you often get stuck in your ways of thinking which make you blind to them. The therapist is the equivalent of a senior brain & behavior engineer. Use them, talk to them. Talk about your quirks and your bugs. You may think you have a perfect solution, but that solution is most likely flawed. You wouldn't expect a software to debug itself. You wouldn't expect a junior to fix huge breaking issues.

tiborsaas 7y ago
I never been to therapy or talked to a psychologist, but I want to. What I'm afraid of is that I might pick a wrong "brain and mind engineer" and it might take a while and a lot of money to realize it only to go back to square one. I found one recently, but after my second email she just replied that she's overbooked. I have issues with rejection among other things :)
- tikhonj 7y ago
  I was in a similar situation, and at some point I just realized that I was better off seeing some therapist rather than trying to guess the best one. So I just found one that was within walking distance and had time available. It worked out well in my case. If the first one doesn't work out, they might recommend somebody more suited for you specifically or, in the worst case, you can just repeat the process above. Unless you can get a recommendation from somebody you know, I think this is the best option. It's usually better to do something than to do nothing :).
- Raphmedia 7y ago
  Going to a therapist that you don't like isn't a setback. It's getting closer to being aware of which kind of therapy is good for you. It's perfectly okay to jump around. The first appointments are usually going to be freeform discussions, so you'll be able to see if there's a connection.

viburnum 7y ago

Some problems are better addressed collectively than individually. Work stress in particular.

Porthos9K 7y ago
It sounds like you're talking union. I agree.

cicciop 7y ago

As somebody who's recently started going to therapy (and a tech worker), I'm skeptical that apps will help -- most of the point is being able to talk to a real person, in a real place, and get honest feedback. This said, therapy is not as "modern" as people think. Catholic confession has been around for literally millennia, and it basically had that same role: one guy will listen to your deepest thoughts and shames, absolve you from guilt, and discuss ways for you to be a better person. It's just that we now know how to do it without all the religious baggage.

chrisnaoumidis 7y ago
Yeah it's really hard to replicate the feeling of being in a room with someone and talking through specific situations in your life. Talk therapy (and probably all therapy) is better in person, but there's value in being able to do some home exercises and sessions as well even if it doesn't replace therapy. There are other therapy approaches which are more suited to be delivered through a phone. Something that we've seen work really well is teaching coping skills, mental models and different perspectives. It's much less about focusing on your past and life situations, and more about actionable skills that you can learn to manage mental health issues.

deleted 7y ago

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Porthos9K 7y ago

I am this close to just printing out all the crap I've ever written, getting rid of all my digital tech, and buying a restored mechanical typewriter so I can keep writing crappy sf that nobody will ever read without having to resort to using a pen. Fuck tech. Bring on the Butlerian Jihad!

rblion 7y ago

Seven ayahuasca ceremonies and two bufo ceremonies over the course of 2 years changed my life. I experienced a paradigm shift and healed a lot of repressed trauma, let go of a lot of internal drama. I feel I got to the root of the issue and built a solid foundation upon mindfulness and compassion. Every day I work to train my mind to be one-pointed while keeping my heart open towards all, even those who wish me harm. Forgiveness for myself and towards others is the most powerful medicine I've ever known. We are all human, yet so many people judge so harshly. I've learned that the energy expended upon blame/shame is not worth it compared to the energy recycled by forgiving and forgetting. I wish more people realized this, this simple truth could transform the whole world. I've quit smoking weed, drinking, vaping nicotine, eating meat, porn. This is a big deal for me at age 29, I didn't think I'd ever be able to let all these vices go. I've started to wake up at 5am everyday (most days without an alarm). I feel grateful as I brush my now straight teeth (they were crooked 2 years ago). I like how I look and feel, this natural confidence attracts women I thought were 'out of my league' not too long ago. I spend my mornings working towards my highest aspiration of spreading good by design through my agency/consultancy. Under this umbrella, I have started to improve my skills as a developer to build products/platforms that I feel should exist that don't. I read books/articles by people who have done the things I aspire to do and offer concrete principles to help me keep evolving. I got rid of my smartphone, don't miss it to be honest. I use my Sony a6000 for photography now. I don't use Facebook at all, use Instagram only to see nature photography (a few interesting people I admire), use reddit and twitter to keep up with my interests (culled most of my feed in both down to high-signal, low-noise). I'm just happy to be alive. I was morbidly depressed in May 2017. I was feeling like a loser for not getting into YC, for getting laid off, for not having a degree, for not being married like most people my age in my culture, for being a joke to many people I grew up around. I don't care about any of that anymore, I am a victor, not a victim! I'll shut up now. Hopefully this helps someone out there struggling, we are all in this together.

cheeko1234 7y ago
I keep reading about ayahuasca. Care to elaborate on how/where, etc. I've been using thc as self-medication for a decade and decided to quit cold turkey, and my anxiety and self-doubt is through the roof. I know the baggage is coming from childhood, but I'm not sure how to solve it.

bytematic 7y ago

I wonder when tech shops are going to start getting performance coach therapists like hedge funds.

jondwillis 7y ago

Coincidental; going to therapy for the first time today.

chrisnaoumidis 7y ago
Good luck! Hope you enjoy it and it helps :)

papito 7y ago

There is no difference between drinking booze and staring at your phone. Both are used to shut off the thoughts bouncing in your head and escape your problems if only for a bit - except with a phone you can do it all the time, while walking, while waiting in a coffee line. It's an addiction just like any other.

mlthoughts2018 7y ago

I have a hard time believing the issues bringing people to therapy have changed towards global crises and dictatorships and politics, in these company worker cohorts. I think it’s really just that the employers treat workers badly and don’t pay them enough to escape personal life anxieties in the super expensive urban areas they are requires to live in for these jobs. Bait & switch jobs, stalled out career progress, salaries that seem high on paper but don’t go far at all, insane open-plan offices whipping up anxieties all day every day, disallowed to pursue good craftsmanship.

cubano 7y ago

Does anyone here have any experience with the Psych On Demand-type services that promise professional therapy like LARKR or Talkspace and the like? $85 for 50 minutes seems quite reasonable and I have been wanting to try it but wanted to hear from other tech professionals before paying the money I barely have. I know I could use use therapy, although the fabulous graduate-level textbook I once read that I believe nailed the root cause of my issues (deep neglect as an infant) basically said that the only "cure" to most of my issues would be to, and I paraphrase here, to constantly reinforce that I am no longer a helpless child and I need to take control of my decisions as an adult. Also, the book postulated that deep early-childhood trauma is one of the most devastating things that can happen to person and could very well be the primary driver of addiction later in life, and I remember quite clearly that the author (a German lady from the 20's if I remember correctly) said that it would be better to be addicted to heroin then to be neglected as an infant. I read the book while in prison, so I am unable, thankfully, to figure out the author or ISBN number, but I sure wish I could find it again.

49531 7y ago
You can usually find a therapist for a similar rate ($80-$100)/hr, or if you're lucky enough to have insurance that covers therapy, you can get it for less. I currently only pay a co-pay of $25/hr.
dfraser992 7y ago
You should find this interesting/useful as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby I have Bowlby's books as well, so can recommend them. Based on my experience, any therapist ought to be able to offer a reduced rate - the first session or at least inquiry can be used to establish such things. And I'd recommend trying to see someone in person vs. over the Net, if possible, but that has its own drawbacks (transportation etc)
- nmnim 7y ago
  He also might be thinking of Mary Ainsworth who was an early attachment theorist with John Bowlby? Although not German.

wufufufu 7y ago

If I was to experiment with inducing anxiety in mice, one of the things I would try is strapping it to a chair in-front of a backlit screen for 8 hours a day five days a week.

tracer4201 7y ago

Is this worse at specific companies? I heard great anecdotes from friends at Google. Amazon I haven’t heard many positive things about, although I saw the NYT piece years ago but dont trust them as an outlet.

csours 7y ago

My primary motivation is learning things and doing things the right way. In tech, I feel like I will never know everything, and in fact I never know "enough" - there's always some little setting or error or gremlin that will get me. Thus I can't do things the "right way" because my programs will break. This is a source of great anxiety for me. Yes I know there are software principles that help with this like KISS and YAGNI, but I have a hard time internalizing them. I used to work in construction, and tasks were largely repetitive. I knew the "right" way to do nearly all of my tasks, and I was able to complete them well. That drives a feeling of accomplishment that I don't have in tech.

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