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> People who had cut the cord... As long as you don't care about the zeitgeist... That's not really what it's about. You have no idea how utterly janky Plex an

> People who had cut the cord... As long as you don't care about the zeitgeist... That's not really what it's about. You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. People on Hacker News find IT stimulating, so their experience is basically moot. It's like trying to predict trends based on a nerd's hot take of the iPod. It has always been about enforcement. Seen in this lens, the hassle of pirating movies is itself a form of enforcement of copyright protections, even if the IT is not a legal instrument. Enforcement has definitely weakened. Why though? It wasn't limited to bad PR, although again the Hacker News crowd is wildly incomparable to the population at large when it comes to issues like this. What has changed is that TV makers are also now Internet providers. They are recouping the costs of piracy by raising your Internet prices. They don't make content you consume in the rest of the world, so naturally in the rest of the world fast Internet is dirt cheap. Calling this a consequence of consolidation is accurate! It's just not about consolidation among ISPs, but between producers and ISPs. And on top of that, all the people who held onto the cord were subsidizing your television. Now that they finally cut the cord, who's going to pay for it?

pessimizer 7y ago
> That's not really what it's about. You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. I don't know anything about Plex, but torrenting is pretty effortless compared to figuring out which streaming service what you want to watch is on, figuring out how to get that, evaluating other content it has trying to justify the price, figuring out how to get it to your tv, and figuring out how to use it. The only thing I've seen that confuses people about torrenting is having to open a port. I think the thing that limits torrenting is the ISP emails, not any of this "nobody cares about your nerd stuff" know-nothing pseudo folk wisdom. People figure it out in five minutes, it looks too easy so it feels criminal, then they get an email from their ISP, so they retreat back to the difficult stuff out of paranoia because they vaguely remember stories about people getting in absurdly disproportionate trouble for it. For your conspiracy to be valid, I'd have to see significant evidence that internet costs have gone up in the US. Mine have gone down. Evidence that it's cheaper in other parts of the world is utterly irrelevant.
- lostgame 7y ago
  >> torrenting is pretty effortless compared to figuring out which streaming service what you want to watch is on, figuring out how to get that, evaluating other content it has trying to justify the price, figuring out how to use it, and figuring out how to get it to your TV Damn. You just nailed this. In fact, hearing it this way makes me confused as to why anyone would ever use a streaming service to start. I live in Canada - which is just an awful country to be in for seeing the message 'this video is not available in your country'. For years, I exclaimed 'this is dumb and just makes me visit the Pirate Bay next, it won't be long before other people do, too'. You know what I wish was still open? Blockbuster. I miss walking out to a store, picking out a movie, pretty much any movie I wanted (new releases might be picky/choosy) - and renting it for a couple days for $2-3. That...honestly seemed like the best all-around deal for movie producers and consumers.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Can you not just do that now with Google Movies or whatnot?
    - lostgame 7y ago
      Still limited to the selection at Google Movies. You can do this now with Netflix - but they will ship you DVD's.
    - thefringthing 7y ago
      You can still do it at the library, and for free!
    - Benji_San 7y ago
      "Voice and subtitles not available in your language" For literally the first recommended film on Google play movies. Scroll through it a little bit and it seems like original languages are not available, closed captions are never available and the only subs available is not my preferred language (google also warns me for this). This is ridiculously often the usual experience outside the US, if the content is legally available at all... Or I can just torrent the same content with my desired subs/dubs or buy a game on steam an play it in my desired language...
josefresco 7y ago
Anecdotally I have several "non techy" friends who pirate movies. They just bought a pre-loaded "stick" plugged it into their TV and bam, it works. They don't even fully realize (or admit) they are pirating.
sp332 7y ago
I run a Plex server and several of my friends do too. If you're OK with the defaults it's really easy to run.
LocalH 7y ago
Plex is a hell of a lot less janky than raw files on a fileshare
zanny 7y ago
Remember Popcorn Time? When it worked, it was amazing. It has better UX than any regular content provider can provide because you don't even need sign in credentials or to enter a credit card. There is also no technical barrier to streaming torrented video on the web. Peertube etc demonstrate distributed video effectively.
- lozaning 7y ago
  Los Movies is essentially the same thing.
- cocoggu 7y ago
  Popcorn Time is still working and still awesome. I just watched a movie yesterday. I'm a Netflix subscriber, but living in China. Usually Netflix works fine with Astrill VPN, but not since 2 days, so yeah, I'm back on Popcorn Time thanks to their awesome geographic blockage.
kerkeslager 7y ago
> You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. Compare these experiences: 1. Search Netflix. Discover it's not there. 2. Search Amazon. Discover they have it, but it's not available for free as part of your subscription. 3. Search Hulu. Leave Hulu, because it's not there. 4. Finally go back to Amazon and rent the movie, not sure why you're paying for Prime if you still have to pay on top of that for half the stuff you watch. 5. Watch your content, with network interruptions if you're new popular releases (i.e. recent Game of Thrones). 6. Pay three monthly bills every month, a large percentage of which gets you overlapping content, but only pays to the content creators for the service you watch it on. Versus: 1. Search a torrent site. 2. Select a save location in your torrent client. 3. Go make popcorn. 4. Watch your content uninterrupted by network issues or ads, for free, even if you're not connected to the internet. Which is the janky experience? And this is if you remove regions and internet connection reliability from the equation. I'm not arguing you should torrent, incidentally. My preferred experience is to purchase content directly from the content creators when possible. [1] https://help.hulu.com/s/article/how-much-does-hulu-cost?language=en_US https://help.hulu.com/s/article/how-much-does-hulu-cost?lang... EDIT: Okay, sure, there are some use paths where streaming services are easier. But my point here isn't to say that streaming is worse, it's to say that torrenting is absolutely comparable and not some highly technical, difficult thing to do.
- lozaning 7y ago
  Your step 1 should really be, spend enough time on the internet to gain enough clout to get invited to a private tracker, and then maintain your seed ratio so you dont get kicked off. Otherwise if you're downloading stuff off the pirate bay it's either going to get you nailed pretty quickly for IP infringement, or you'll end up with fake files and a virus thats labeled as a codec you need to install. Running a VPN or seedbox or any of the other numerous things to get around this (usenet is my own weapon of choice) results in what may be for you and I an easy or even fun activity, but not for my sisters kid or whatever.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    > Otherwise if you're downloading stuff off the pirate bay it's either going to get you nailed pretty quickly for IP infringement I don't know much about private trackers because I don't actually torrent illegally (I pretty much only use torrents to seed Linux distros). But I'm skeptical "getting nailed" is actually much of a concern. I had a roommate not long ago who torrented illegally quite frequently. The only reason we know it was happening is we'd receive love letters from the ISP every few weeks, and while I suspect I know who was doing it, I'm not 100% sure. As far as I know there were never any consequences beyond that. > you'll end up with fake files and a virus thats labeled as a codec you need to install I am pretty skeptical that this is as common as you think it is. Certainly the kind of naive person who is installing codecs that unexpectedly were packaged with their files is not going to have an easy time on any part of the internet. And if you're using a site like EZTV the chances of this approach negligible. > Running a VPN or seedbox or any of the other numerous things to get around this (usenet is my own weapon of choice) results in what may be for you and I an easy or even fun activity, but not for my sisters kid or whatever. I use NordVPN (again, not for illegally torrenting--I originally got it for testing internationalization, but nowadays mostly use it because it's a middle ground between the privacy of Tor and the speed of un-proxied internet). The toolbar icon makes it pretty easy. I suspect the main barrier here would be even knowing that VPNs exist and wanting to pay for it, not actually using a VPN service once you have it.
fragmede 7y ago
Only one techhead person has to setup the system, and then share access to it with all of their friends. And then given everyone's total inability to keep a secret, logins get shared far and wide. Those friends just open the app, find a show, and hit play. On the backend, there's an RSS feed hooked up to an auto-downloader, because DevOps is all about automating toil, and finding, downloading, and then futzing with VLC to find and play the file, is the definition of toil. I have no idea how many people know someone who's dedicated enough to setup such as system, but there are many such systems, so I don't think it's moot. Nor is this a prediction of the future, this exists, with many users already. Who's going to pay for it? Netflix. Despite not needing to pay them to watch their shows, Netflix still gets my money. Netflix pays producers for shows that are on Netflix, so those producers still get my money. It's going to be a hard sell to pay for additional services, as the post we're commenting point out. The non-Netflix services that will survive, regardless, is anything that must be watched in real-time, aka sports. Those add up quick! NFL, NBA, MLB, and UFC all charge a pretty penny to watch their events live. There are pirate streams though, but for dedicated fans, on the real thing is good enough.

pessimizer 7y ago

> That's not really what it's about. You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. I don't know anything about Plex, but torrenting is pretty effortless compared to figuring out which streaming service what you want to watch is on, figuring out how to get that, evaluating other content it has trying to justify the price, figuring out how to get it to your tv, and figuring out how to use it. The only thing I've seen that confuses people about torrenting is having to open a port. I think the thing that limits torrenting is the ISP emails, not any of this "nobody cares about your nerd stuff" know-nothing pseudo folk wisdom. People figure it out in five minutes, it looks too easy so it feels criminal, then they get an email from their ISP, so they retreat back to the difficult stuff out of paranoia because they vaguely remember stories about people getting in absurdly disproportionate trouble for it. For your conspiracy to be valid, I'd have to see significant evidence that internet costs have gone up in the US. Mine have gone down. Evidence that it's cheaper in other parts of the world is utterly irrelevant.

lostgame 7y ago
>> torrenting is pretty effortless compared to figuring out which streaming service what you want to watch is on, figuring out how to get that, evaluating other content it has trying to justify the price, figuring out how to use it, and figuring out how to get it to your TV Damn. You just nailed this. In fact, hearing it this way makes me confused as to why anyone would ever use a streaming service to start. I live in Canada - which is just an awful country to be in for seeing the message 'this video is not available in your country'. For years, I exclaimed 'this is dumb and just makes me visit the Pirate Bay next, it won't be long before other people do, too'. You know what I wish was still open? Blockbuster. I miss walking out to a store, picking out a movie, pretty much any movie I wanted (new releases might be picky/choosy) - and renting it for a couple days for $2-3. That...honestly seemed like the best all-around deal for movie producers and consumers.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Can you not just do that now with Google Movies or whatnot?
  - lostgame 7y ago
    Still limited to the selection at Google Movies. You can do this now with Netflix - but they will ship you DVD's.
  - thefringthing 7y ago
    You can still do it at the library, and for free!
  - Benji_San 7y ago
    "Voice and subtitles not available in your language" For literally the first recommended film on Google play movies. Scroll through it a little bit and it seems like original languages are not available, closed captions are never available and the only subs available is not my preferred language (google also warns me for this). This is ridiculously often the usual experience outside the US, if the content is legally available at all... Or I can just torrent the same content with my desired subs/dubs or buy a game on steam an play it in my desired language...

josefresco 7y ago

Anecdotally I have several "non techy" friends who pirate movies. They just bought a pre-loaded "stick" plugged it into their TV and bam, it works. They don't even fully realize (or admit) they are pirating.

sp332 7y ago

I run a Plex server and several of my friends do too. If you're OK with the defaults it's really easy to run.

LocalH 7y ago

Plex is a hell of a lot less janky than raw files on a fileshare

zanny 7y ago

Remember Popcorn Time? When it worked, it was amazing. It has better UX than any regular content provider can provide because you don't even need sign in credentials or to enter a credit card. There is also no technical barrier to streaming torrented video on the web. Peertube etc demonstrate distributed video effectively.

lozaning 7y ago
Los Movies is essentially the same thing.
cocoggu 7y ago
Popcorn Time is still working and still awesome. I just watched a movie yesterday. I'm a Netflix subscriber, but living in China. Usually Netflix works fine with Astrill VPN, but not since 2 days, so yeah, I'm back on Popcorn Time thanks to their awesome geographic blockage.

kerkeslager 7y ago

> You have no idea how utterly janky Plex and torrenting is. Compare these experiences: 1. Search Netflix. Discover it's not there. 2. Search Amazon. Discover they have it, but it's not available for free as part of your subscription. 3. Search Hulu. Leave Hulu, because it's not there. 4. Finally go back to Amazon and rent the movie, not sure why you're paying for Prime if you still have to pay on top of that for half the stuff you watch. 5. Watch your content, with network interruptions if you're new popular releases (i.e. recent Game of Thrones). 6. Pay three monthly bills every month, a large percentage of which gets you overlapping content, but only pays to the content creators for the service you watch it on. Versus: 1. Search a torrent site. 2. Select a save location in your torrent client. 3. Go make popcorn. 4. Watch your content uninterrupted by network issues or ads, for free, even if you're not connected to the internet. Which is the janky experience? And this is if you remove regions and internet connection reliability from the equation. I'm not arguing you should torrent, incidentally. My preferred experience is to purchase content directly from the content creators when possible. [1] https://help.hulu.com/s/article/how-much-does-hulu-cost?language=en_US https://help.hulu.com/s/article/how-much-does-hulu-cost?lang... EDIT: Okay, sure, there are some use paths where streaming services are easier. But my point here isn't to say that streaming is worse, it's to say that torrenting is absolutely comparable and not some highly technical, difficult thing to do.

lozaning 7y ago
Your step 1 should really be, spend enough time on the internet to gain enough clout to get invited to a private tracker, and then maintain your seed ratio so you dont get kicked off. Otherwise if you're downloading stuff off the pirate bay it's either going to get you nailed pretty quickly for IP infringement, or you'll end up with fake files and a virus thats labeled as a codec you need to install. Running a VPN or seedbox or any of the other numerous things to get around this (usenet is my own weapon of choice) results in what may be for you and I an easy or even fun activity, but not for my sisters kid or whatever.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  > Otherwise if you're downloading stuff off the pirate bay it's either going to get you nailed pretty quickly for IP infringement I don't know much about private trackers because I don't actually torrent illegally (I pretty much only use torrents to seed Linux distros). But I'm skeptical "getting nailed" is actually much of a concern. I had a roommate not long ago who torrented illegally quite frequently. The only reason we know it was happening is we'd receive love letters from the ISP every few weeks, and while I suspect I know who was doing it, I'm not 100% sure. As far as I know there were never any consequences beyond that. > you'll end up with fake files and a virus thats labeled as a codec you need to install I am pretty skeptical that this is as common as you think it is. Certainly the kind of naive person who is installing codecs that unexpectedly were packaged with their files is not going to have an easy time on any part of the internet. And if you're using a site like EZTV the chances of this approach negligible. > Running a VPN or seedbox or any of the other numerous things to get around this (usenet is my own weapon of choice) results in what may be for you and I an easy or even fun activity, but not for my sisters kid or whatever. I use NordVPN (again, not for illegally torrenting--I originally got it for testing internationalization, but nowadays mostly use it because it's a middle ground between the privacy of Tor and the speed of un-proxied internet). The toolbar icon makes it pretty easy. I suspect the main barrier here would be even knowing that VPNs exist and wanting to pay for it, not actually using a VPN service once you have it.

fragmede 7y ago

Only one techhead person has to setup the system, and then share access to it with all of their friends. And then given everyone's total inability to keep a secret, logins get shared far and wide. Those friends just open the app, find a show, and hit play. On the backend, there's an RSS feed hooked up to an auto-downloader, because DevOps is all about automating toil, and finding, downloading, and then futzing with VLC to find and play the file, is the definition of toil. I have no idea how many people know someone who's dedicated enough to setup such as system, but there are many such systems, so I don't think it's moot. Nor is this a prediction of the future, this exists, with many users already. Who's going to pay for it? Netflix. Despite not needing to pay them to watch their shows, Netflix still gets my money. Netflix pays producers for shows that are on Netflix, so those producers still get my money. It's going to be a hard sell to pay for additional services, as the post we're commenting point out. The non-Netflix services that will survive, regardless, is anything that must be watched in real-time, aka sports. Those add up quick! NFL, NBA, MLB, and UFC all charge a pretty penny to watch their events live. There are pirate streams though, but for dedicated fans, on the real thing is good enough.