3 ms·

I think upfront planning is almost always a good thing. The problem starts when people think that the plan doesn’t need to be revisited. You need to be willing

I think upfront planning is almost always a good thing. The problem starts when people think that the plan doesn’t need to be revisited. You need to be willing to change the plan as new facts develop. In the end no matter what you do software and hardware development is unpredictable. No methodology will ever change that.

brightball 7y ago
This is the problem in a nutshell. Revisiting plans when you get new information. This is especially true with estimates. New work, new problems, unexpected difficulties, etc. Over-planning can lead to a lot of rigidity in the process if it tries to plan too far ahead.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  “Over-planning can lead to a lot of rigidity in the process if it tries to plan too far ahead.” Or they try to compensate for technical problems by doing endless replanning meetings instead of spending the time on solving the problem. But a good long term road map is really helpful when you have to make a decision to go one way or the other. Just accept that it’s a rough guideline and not an exact plan that’s set in stone.
matwood 7y ago
> I think upfront planning is almost always a good thing. Agreed. I think some people think agile means no plan, whereas I think it means frequent scheduled review of the plan as work is completed and more is learned.
gadders 7y ago
Agreed. I think a lot of agile proponents think that in waterfall, the project plan is created on day 1 and as reality drifts from the plan, the project manager shouts louder and louder at developers to try get reality back to matching the plan. This a false straw man argument. One the project plan is created, it should be updated regularly (daily/weekly depending on the size of the project) as tasks are completed and new information comes to light. The plan is to give a prediction for the likely end date and cost of the project, but must be update as new information is known.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  “as reality drifts from the plan, the project manager shouts louder and louder at developers to try get reality back to matching the plan” Welcome to my world :). Just a few weeks ago I had a conversation with a project manager explaining that no amount of additional planning meetings, motivational speeches or free pizza can change reality.
  - gadders 7y ago
    I feel for you. I'm not saying those project managers don't exist, but I wish people wouldn't compare perfect agile against pathological waterfall.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      Well, they also compare perfect waterfall against pathological agile...

brightball 7y ago

This is the problem in a nutshell. Revisiting plans when you get new information. This is especially true with estimates. New work, new problems, unexpected difficulties, etc. Over-planning can lead to a lot of rigidity in the process if it tries to plan too far ahead.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
“Over-planning can lead to a lot of rigidity in the process if it tries to plan too far ahead.” Or they try to compensate for technical problems by doing endless replanning meetings instead of spending the time on solving the problem. But a good long term road map is really helpful when you have to make a decision to go one way or the other. Just accept that it’s a rough guideline and not an exact plan that’s set in stone.

matwood 7y ago

> I think upfront planning is almost always a good thing. Agreed. I think some people think agile means no plan, whereas I think it means frequent scheduled review of the plan as work is completed and more is learned.

gadders 7y ago

Agreed. I think a lot of agile proponents think that in waterfall, the project plan is created on day 1 and as reality drifts from the plan, the project manager shouts louder and louder at developers to try get reality back to matching the plan. This a false straw man argument. One the project plan is created, it should be updated regularly (daily/weekly depending on the size of the project) as tasks are completed and new information comes to light. The plan is to give a prediction for the likely end date and cost of the project, but must be update as new information is known.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
“as reality drifts from the plan, the project manager shouts louder and louder at developers to try get reality back to matching the plan” Welcome to my world :). Just a few weeks ago I had a conversation with a project manager explaining that no amount of additional planning meetings, motivational speeches or free pizza can change reality.
- gadders 7y ago
  I feel for you. I'm not saying those project managers don't exist, but I wish people wouldn't compare perfect agile against pathological waterfall.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    Well, they also compare perfect waterfall against pathological agile...