8 ms·
Richard Stallman and the Fall of the Clueless Nerd
- moocowtruck 7y agothe article talks ". His inability to understand the hurt that comes from insensitivity " but the title is fall of the clueless nerd?
- sawaruna 7y agoDidn't read the article but where's the contradiction in your quote? Inability to understand and clueless are close enough. e: My mistake, clarified below.
- GonzaloQuero 7y agoThe contradiction is that "clueless nerd" is pretty insensitive, so for an article preaching about the hurt that comes from it, well, sounds weird.
- sawaruna 7y agoOh that's what the commenter was pointing out, my mistake.
- bitwize 7y agoHey, no bad tactics, only bad targets.
- bishnu 7y agoIn fairness, most headlines are chosen by editors and not article writers.
- mytailorisrich 7y agoFailing to blindly follow the herd is not being insensitive.
- RankingMember 7y agoI feel like his defending pedophilia in cases where a "child consents" is a good argument for why sometimes the herd is right. His words are insensitive to those who are victims of pedophilia because it minimizes the impact and implicates the victim as being potentially receptive to the act.
- mytailorisrich 7y agoHere we are... Proving my point. He expressed opinions which are not insensitive. It is totalitarian force people to only express the 'correct' opinion on an issue. In fact the opinions he expressed are actually the law in some Western countries. I.e. that someone below the age of consent may be able to consent to sex and that, as a consequence, sexual activity with someone below the age of consent is not automatically rape though an offence. There is a crucial difference between discussing an issue in general terms and targeting a specific individual who was a victim of that issue. Everything is being taken personally these days when it should not.
- RankingMember 7y agoI agree with you that any topic should be able to be discussed, but I think a modicum of forethought and perhaps a higher level of self-discipline should be employed when discussing sensitive topics such as pedophilia, because these subjects don't exist in a vacuum. RMS gave no real provable basis for his statement- he was just vomiting a baseless opinion, which he has every right to do. People, in turn, have every right to call his opinion callous and stupid. To his credit, he did reportedly change his view after enough people explained to him why children could not be expected to hold the responsibility of consenting to sex with an adult.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago> RMS gave no real provable basis for his statement I'm not sure what specific statement you have in mind. However what I wrote before, i.e. that someone below the official age of consent may be able to give informed consent is simply the reality. Reality is not black and white and does not conform to a specific world-view. Accusing about someone of "vomitting a baseless opinion" is not very inducive to discussion.
- wtdata 7y agoThis article start right away by lying using the disinformation machine that is setup about these mob outrage issues. Right away in the subtitle: "The controversial pioneer of free software resigned from MIT over his remarks on Jeffrey Epstein and Marvin Minsky." "his remarks on Jeffrey Epstein" were none, zero, nada, zilch. Stallman addressed Minsky in his remarks. [1] But sure, the pit is setup, let's burn the guy because it's the mob culture in which we live on at the present and well, it's a guy, a white guy, so he must deserve some kind of punishment, right?... Even if not for having said what almost everyone joining the outrage mob thinks he did say. https://itsfoss.com/richard-stallman-controversy/?fbclid=IwAR2EcxaMWXZnwU5GOJ4jbuiQrqpdRUmYlQkyGF2FZrA61M1r8onFm0fxssc https://itsfoss.com/richard-stallman-controversy/?fbclid=IwA...
- bitwize 7y agoRichard Stallman is fucking scum[0]and a rape apologist and if you defend him, so are you. So watch what you say, Hackernews, lest people come forward with reports of crimes you committed. [0] https://youtu.be/iARHCxAMAO0?t=236 https://youtu.be/iARHCxAMAO0?t=236
- Grangar 7y agoWhere's Stallman in this?
- ohiovr 7y agoNerds geeks and dorks like me have never had an easy time in life. Now we have mobs to consider.
- kilo_bravo_3 7y ago“I think it is morally absurd to define “rape” in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17.” If an employee at a major company sent out the previous sentence in a "company-all" email would he still be employed, after having been given a "talking to" regarding comments he made about pedophilia several years earlier? If nerds, geeks, and dorks think that the following series of events is evidence of a "mob mentality", they need to retreat from public discourse: 1. A student posts a link promoting an upcoming event protesting the way that donations from Epstein were covered up by MIT administrators and calling for their resignation. 2. Richard Stallman chimes in defending Minsky. Saying, among other things, that rape and sexual assault require force (they don't). 3. Several commenters take offense to that. 4. Instead of shutting up, Stallman DOUBLES DOWN. 5. Commenters rightly point out that discussing matters like this in a public forum is unprofessional and may tarnish the reputation of CSAIL. 6. Stallman resigns when people start looking into the matter and find all of the pedophile stuff on his website.
- diffeomorphism 7y ago> (they don't) He seems to be complaining about terminology (it is Stallman after all). To give an analogous example: Person A: Minsky downloaded some music and is thus a pirate and robber. Stallman: "robbing" requires force and this did not happen on the high seas. You are only using these words to make Minsky seem violent and dangerous in addition to describing the allegation. I think that word choice is not okay. Stallman has very strong "opinions" about what words should mean and which ones should be used, even if the rest of the world disagrees, and always doubles down.
- strikelaserclaw 7y agoWe are living in the easiest timeline for nerds, geeks, and dorks. Once nerds became associated with $$$, things have looked up immensely. In many cases now, it is the nerds, geeks, dorks who are the bullies in society.
- salawat 7y agoSo to anyone who hasn't read the actual email chain, here is a link. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929-09132019142056-0001.html#document/p20 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929-091320191420... Most. Of the press reporting is absolutely terrible with regards to accuracy. Please read it first before passing judgement.
- forgottenpass 7y agoHere's a probably-apocryphal story about San Francisco. The cultural tolerance and open-mindedness the city was know for happened because at some point in history the need for dockworkers was way, way stronger than any superficial differences that employers might otherwise discriminate over if the labor pool was larger. At a time when discrimination was the open and explicit norm, that lack of exclusion grew out into the societal attitudes across the city. Tech was once a place where we lived with weirdos ranging from unconventional appearance all the way to downright unpleasant to work with. There was a lot of work to get done, and goddamn we were going to figure out how to get it done with the people we had. Fast forward to the 2010's. We hire for conformity across the board, some places even acknowledge the strictness of that part of their selection criteria and call it "culture fit." It's a very dictionary-definition-but-not-political-alignment conservative time. The outliers have all gotta go.
- Daishiman 7y agoWe realized that lone hackers aren't actually the tremendous geniuses who can accomplish dark magic on their own. The profession has changed. We no longer build low-level constructs that are leaps and bounds ahead of prior versions, but incrementally take existing building blocks to find solutions for problems that are ever more social in nature. Having worked with several lone-wolf hackers, I am glad we are no longer afraid of pointing out shitty behavior.
- forgottenpass 7y agoI tried to write that post about contemporary standards with wide enough room to avoid singling out one archetype and proceeding to disparage them by contemporary standards. But you found it; as it turns out everyone on the spectrum from "unconventional appearance all the way to downright unpleasant to work with" is a cartoon-cutout "lone wolf". Ya got me.
- Daishiman 7y agoThe only ones who are being singled out in recent times are those who are downright unpleasant to work with. I still see all the same quirky characters getting well-paying jobs.
- ameixaseca 7y ago> Instead of considering the pain of a young person treated in such a manner [...] I find it really odd this myoptic view: he is defending a coworker, which is not alive anymore to defend himself. He did not say the victim is lying, he is talking about how Minsky possibly didn't do anything wrong himself. Is everyone aware there was a protest against the ones involved at MIT (including Minsky)? How would you feel if someone protested against you if you were innocent? > [...] opining that 14-year-old girls have free will [..] Not in the US, but that does not apply to a good number of countries is Western Europe, South America, etc. Now, I do not agree with everything Stallman said, but he has the right to be wrong. Why can't he be wrong? Is he not entitled to an opinion which does not conform to the majority? Silencing people we don't agree with is a slippery slope, specially when appealing to some absolute morality standard. I see this happening too much lately, including here.
- LiquidSky 7y ago>Now, I do not agree with everything Stallman said, but he has the right to be wrong. Why can't he be wrong? Is he not entitled to an opinion which does not conform to the majority? You're really asking two questions here. Is he entitled to his opinions? Sure. Is he entitled to maintain his position while holding those opinions? Different question. Or, to put it another way, is someone entitled to having any opinion without facing any consequences? >Silencing people we don't agree with is a slippery slope, specially when appealing to some absolute morality standard. The "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy, but more importantly neither you nor anyone else expressing similar views actually believes what you wrote. If Stallman had written, say, that he believes Jews are subhuman vermin and need to be exterminated, there would be zero question he should be fired and neither you nor anyone else who isn't an actual Nazi would be leaping to defend his right to express that opinion.
- ameixaseca 7y agoThere is a fundamental difference in your example in the fact that it calls for action/violence. If he had said, for instance, that every child needs to be molested, that would be more in line with your example. And that would no longer be acceptable. Outright racism and similar views are indeed less tolerated nowadays, but this is a whole discussion by itself. I'll just add that, from my POV, they cross the line from the "opinion realm", which together with a number of other arguments justifies non-tolerance of these views.