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This is a very, very imperfect method of figuring out the key question here ("Would Equifax just file for bankruptcy?"), but their enterprise value is ~$20B, an

This is a very, very imperfect method of figuring out the key question here ("Would Equifax just file for bankruptcy?"), but their enterprise value is ~$20B, and paying out $125 per person would cost over $18B, so it seems pretty clear you'd need to reduce the per person payout. It would take more work than I can put in right now to decide what it should be, but finger in the wind halving it seems like the right starting point.

bdamm 7y ago
Bankruptcy seems quite appropriate. They not only failed to maintain the security of the data, they also provided no identity theft protection to the public (unless you asked for it), and as a company appeared to have no plan for this event. Given that they were entrusted with the identity data for basically all Americans, that is inexcusable.
- the_watcher 7y ago
  Sorry, should have been more clear: I wasn't commenting on whether or not bankruptcy is fair to Equifax or not, I was meant "Would Equifax avoid paying the money out via bankruptcy protections (from which companies can actually emerge from in better position)?" I assumed the OP cared primarily about receiving the settlement.
- ptero 7y ago
  > Bankruptcy seems quite appropriate. Hmm... Would not they just file for a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, restructure their debts (i.e., write those pesky $125 payments off), then emerge in a better shape than they were?
  - mffnbs 7y ago
    (i.e., write those pesky $125 payments off) What does that mean? As far as I know, you can't just announce that you're "writing off" debts and have them magically disappear.
    - posterboy 7y ago
      You sell the company at a low price to a friend and pay out the low sum to the plaintiffs. This would need approval under chapter 11, I guess, and if you sell the company it includes the debt, so they'd have to be tricky about it and just sell the meat or the milk, not the whole cow. Ironically, this invariably means selling the customer data (but also existing contracts and what not). IANAL
      - nradov 7y ago
        The bankruptcy judge and trustee wouldn't approve an asset sale at significantly less than fair market value.
  - nradov 7y ago
    That's not how bankruptcy works. The court and trustee divide the assets across creditors according to debt seniority.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > provided no identity theft protection to the public (unless you asked for it) And unless you're _exceedingly_ careful and diligent, after a short period of time, you will be paying them to continue it.
journalctl 7y ago
Would bankruptcy be so bad? “Sorry, Equifax. Due to some recent financial irresponsibility, we’ve unfortunately had to lower your score. To zero.”
- the_watcher 7y ago
  Clarified above, but I was thinking about likelihood of receiving the settlement, not fairness to Equifax. A settlement number so punitive it would put them out of business would substantially reduce the chances of those impacted receiving more than a token amount.
  - mattkrause 7y ago
    On the other hand, driving the value of their stock to zero would be a very effective deterrent against future bad behavior.
    - navigatesol 7y ago
      >On the other hand, driving the value of their stock to zero would be a very effective deterrent against future bad behavior. Perfect! Then, we can try killing people who commit heinous crimes, or at the very least lock them up for the duration of their lives. When you make a mistake, you and everyone around you should pay, regardless of their involvement or actual harm done to others. Dearly. Why has no one thought of this? I have no worries, because me and the work I do are without flaws. Sounds like Utopia.
      - mattkrause 7y ago
        Ha! But, really, I think a corporate "death penalty" would be much more justifiable than a corporeal one. The company can reform its business and try again; whatever's left of it (the ultimate shareholders) could even be made whole (with cash) if the decision was egregiously bad. Natural people, on the other hand, aren't coming back from the dead. I don't follow the "perfection" part of your comment. I'm certainly not suggesting that this be the only remedy, but this is, as things go, pretty bad, and maybe it deserves a pretty harsh punishment.
fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
If your business leaked millions of private records in a similar manner, would you expect to remain in business afterward?
- the_watcher 7y ago
  As I clarified above, I was thinking about whether or not the 147M affected would actually receive anything, not about fairness of the punishment.

bdamm 7y ago

Bankruptcy seems quite appropriate. They not only failed to maintain the security of the data, they also provided no identity theft protection to the public (unless you asked for it), and as a company appeared to have no plan for this event. Given that they were entrusted with the identity data for basically all Americans, that is inexcusable.

the_watcher 7y ago
Sorry, should have been more clear: I wasn't commenting on whether or not bankruptcy is fair to Equifax or not, I was meant "Would Equifax avoid paying the money out via bankruptcy protections (from which companies can actually emerge from in better position)?" I assumed the OP cared primarily about receiving the settlement.
ptero 7y ago
> Bankruptcy seems quite appropriate. Hmm... Would not they just file for a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, restructure their debts (i.e., write those pesky $125 payments off), then emerge in a better shape than they were?
- mffnbs 7y ago
  (i.e., write those pesky $125 payments off) What does that mean? As far as I know, you can't just announce that you're "writing off" debts and have them magically disappear.
  - posterboy 7y ago
    You sell the company at a low price to a friend and pay out the low sum to the plaintiffs. This would need approval under chapter 11, I guess, and if you sell the company it includes the debt, so they'd have to be tricky about it and just sell the meat or the milk, not the whole cow. Ironically, this invariably means selling the customer data (but also existing contracts and what not). IANAL
    - nradov 7y ago
      The bankruptcy judge and trustee wouldn't approve an asset sale at significantly less than fair market value.
- nradov 7y ago
  That's not how bankruptcy works. The court and trustee divide the assets across creditors according to debt seniority.
FireBeyond 7y ago
> provided no identity theft protection to the public (unless you asked for it) And unless you're _exceedingly_ careful and diligent, after a short period of time, you will be paying them to continue it.

journalctl 7y ago

Would bankruptcy be so bad? “Sorry, Equifax. Due to some recent financial irresponsibility, we’ve unfortunately had to lower your score. To zero.”

the_watcher 7y ago
Clarified above, but I was thinking about likelihood of receiving the settlement, not fairness to Equifax. A settlement number so punitive it would put them out of business would substantially reduce the chances of those impacted receiving more than a token amount.
- mattkrause 7y ago
  On the other hand, driving the value of their stock to zero would be a very effective deterrent against future bad behavior.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    >On the other hand, driving the value of their stock to zero would be a very effective deterrent against future bad behavior. Perfect! Then, we can try killing people who commit heinous crimes, or at the very least lock them up for the duration of their lives. When you make a mistake, you and everyone around you should pay, regardless of their involvement or actual harm done to others. Dearly. Why has no one thought of this? I have no worries, because me and the work I do are without flaws. Sounds like Utopia.
    - mattkrause 7y ago
      Ha! But, really, I think a corporate "death penalty" would be much more justifiable than a corporeal one. The company can reform its business and try again; whatever's left of it (the ultimate shareholders) could even be made whole (with cash) if the decision was egregiously bad. Natural people, on the other hand, aren't coming back from the dead. I don't follow the "perfection" part of your comment. I'm certainly not suggesting that this be the only remedy, but this is, as things go, pretty bad, and maybe it deserves a pretty harsh punishment.

fuzz4lyfe 7y ago

If your business leaked millions of private records in a similar manner, would you expect to remain in business afterward?

the_watcher 7y ago
As I clarified above, I was thinking about whether or not the 147M affected would actually receive anything, not about fairness of the punishment.