15 ms·
Hong Kong tries and fails to hire PR firms to rebuild image
- alephnan 7y ago> “It would perhaps not be the most cost-effective way to use the government resources to launch any campaign to rebuild Hong Kong's reputation”
- al3xandre 7y agoAlways found it weird to see governments paying for PR consultants. It's like : I give you tax money to do a good job, but you spend it to convince me that you're doing a good job instead of actually delivering getting shit done.
- wendyshu 7y agoAgreed but it looks like this instance is about convincing foreign people.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y agoTo be fair, there is quite a lot of money being spent to convince you that they are doing a bad job, so it is reasonable to fight that.
- AlexandrB 7y agoAny sources on this? I don't get the impression that the protestors are well-funded.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y agoI'm not speaking about China specifically. The parent said: > Always found it weird to see governments paying for PR consultants. And that is what I'm responding to.
- Mikeb85 7y agoSome of the protest leaders have been bankrolled by NGOs with connections to the US government since the 'Umbrella Revolution'.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- woutr_be 7y agoThere's quite a few crowd funding campaigns by protestors that have raised millions of dollars. They were able to buy full page ads in major international newspapers.
- partialrecall 7y agoHire PR professionals to stave off these other PR professionals. This industry operates like a protection racket.
- naniwaduni 7y agosee also: advertising
- dredmorbius 7y agoAnd law. And fashion.
- ummonk 7y agoDo you also think a good product doesn’t need marketing? And a good engineer doesn’t need to sell their accomplishments in performance reviews?
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoYou shouldn't need marketing when the "customer" has no other option but to deal with you. If you legitimately don't suck then the customer will figure it out through their experience (because they have to deal with you). Hiring PR firms to gaslight the public is not something a decent government does.
- Cerium 7y agoSome customers can choose, I recently decided not to fly to HK.
- Retric 7y agoThat sounds like you’re saying you are not a customer. What exactly is your point? I mean if you where a visited in the past with first hand knowledge that decided not to come back, then PR is not going to have an impact.
- short_sells_poo 7y agoParent is saying they are a customer shopping for holiday/business destinations and they decided to to do business with HK. In other words, HK just lost a sale.
- Retric 7y agoCustomer is one who purchases something as in that’s what it means. So they can’t be a HK customer if they don’t make a purchase. Potential customer’s is generally referred to a Lead specifically to make this distinction.
- JamilD 7y agoFor tourism and appeal for businesses it can have a clear ROI; both of those are important for Hong Kong.
- wavefunction 7y agoI was planning to visit Hong Kong before this began but won't now for the foreseeable future due to the actions of the governments of HK and China. I want to visit China too but the rapid development of their omnipresent surveillance state has me putting those plans off presumably forever, which is a shame as I am fascinated by Chinese history and culture.
- phantomathkg 7y agoI would say it still worth a visit to see it first hand. Protest and civil disobedience normally occurred during the weekend. r/HongHong even has a link to a Google Calendar on all the events that are going to happen.
- greggman2 7y agoYou should visit China just to see the scale. 20 cities larger then NYC. Just one example, Tokyo's bullet train station has 4 tracks Shanghai's has 24. Also make sure to visit the country side and see how many people need to be helped out of poverty.
- wavefunction 7y agoThanks for your suggestions. I have to admit I enjoy nature over man-made achievements but I would appreciate visiting China's mills of industry in addition to absorbing the local culture and cuisines throughout the nation (food is perhaps most accessible and direct experience of local culture?)
- madacoo 7y agoI'm currently in Hong Kong (planning to leave in December). Honestly if you want to come as a tourist I can't see you'll face any problems. Just be sensible and you'll be safe. Unless you don't want to fund the economy of Hong Kong through tourism because you disagree with politics of its government and China. In which case, fair enough, really. I'm avoiding pro-China companies as much as possible myself. Although obviously the necessities of living do get a little in the way of that.
- tempsy 7y agoIt's definitely not just PR Consultants...the gov't hires management consulting firms like McKinsey, Accenture, etc. all the time.
- Green_man 7y ago"The people must learn how well I govern them. How would they know if I did not tell them?" -Dune, by Frank Herbert
- contingencies 7y agoAdded to https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
- telchar 7y agoThis looks like a neat program. (As someone who has never used ruby): how do I run it? This isn't obvious to me.
- slenk 7y agoSince it declares the interpreter at the beginning (https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup/blob/master/taoup#L1 https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup/blob/master/taoup#L1), you should just be able to chmod +x it and run it as ./taoup Since it's an executable like that, this would also allow you to put it in /usr/local/bin (or wherever you keep bins) and call it from anywhere in your shell with 'taoup' (my technical wording may be off)
- hlynurd 7y agoI don't remember that quote at all, who said it in the book?
- Green_man 7y agoLeto is talking to Paul, and he is talking about either a region or a chemical process that is important for the production of film stock. then he sardonically says something like, (paraphrasing): "Film stock is very important. we have the finest propaganda offices. The people must learn how well I govern them. How would they know if we didn't tell them?" he means it sarcastically, but propaganda is important to keep useful people on the planet and to win the general populace over. Leto knows he's backed into a corner on Arrakis and he's focusing on what he can. I also could only find the part i posted originally online, its not one of the more frequent quotes from the book.
- SN76477 7y agoSame things go for companies that fight their employees. There wouldn't be any fighting if companies would stop acting against their employees best interests.
- cirgue 7y ago> the government wanted a firm to "address negative perceptions in key markets overseas to maintain confidence in Hong Kong" It seems like the point of this particular exercise wasn't to convince citizens of anything, but rather to convince people that want to do business in HK that it is still a good idea. This definitely seems premature to the point of being stupid and massively tone-deaf, but does not seem especially ill-intentioned.
- kiba 7y agoSometime people do need to spend money on PR to announce the fact that they can do a good job, because doing a good job is not always self evident. But you're right in that it feels slimey when governments hire out PR to dress up problems instead of solving problems.
- chrischen 7y agoThe’re PRopaganda consultants.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago> I give you tax money to do a good job In a democracy, sure. In a dictatorship, you give them tax money because they said so, and they’ll do whatever the hell they want with it, because they aren’t accountable to you in any way.
- xwolfi 7y agoAlso to pay for retirement, roads and safety. Dictatorships have many shapes, they're not all corrupt to the core so much they tax-enslave their people. Singapore and HK, for example, have very low taxes.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoSure, but GP was making a statement about the “purpose” of their tax money. Without accountability, the purpose is whatever the government wants, not what citizens want. That might be roads, but it could well be PR firms.
- SilasX 7y agoWell, I can understand the need to publicize stuff that might not go unnoticed. But I definitely scratched my head at how the US postal service was doing major, ostentatious sponsorships of cyclists on the Tour de France, and was like, "uh, are people really not aware that the Post Office is a thing?" Edit: Side note, I remember a slashdot thread from a while back that mentioned the "Word of Mouth Marketing Association", and someone was like, "um, what? Isn't the whole point of word-of-mouth marketing that it's not organized by some committee, top-down?"
- C1sc0cat 7y agoWell there is the brand marketing aspect and I suspect that US post also has European business to promote.
- colordrops 7y agoIsn't it also for tourism and external investment? Image is important.
- hkai 7y agoOften policies don't matter as much as how you promote it. China and Singapore are two places that promote their policies in a way that makes people at home patriotic and many people overseas jealous. There was an article here on HN about Singapore a few days ago and I was relieved to see that not everyone in the comments is buying it.
- alexanderdmitri 7y agoBasically it's politics and where there's politics there's going to be a need for PR.
- United857 7y agoUsually, a government's diplomatic arm (e.g. US Department of State) serves as their "international PR" function. So yes, governments do "pay" for PR, it's just done by their own employees most of the time. Hong Kong is a special case as they're not a separate country, so China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs handles all their diplomacy for them (for better and for worse).
- Stevvo 7y agoIt has come full circle; the PR industry was created to apply the principles of government propaganda in corporations, but propaganda isn't cool anymore, so they have to hire the PR firms.
- tokai 7y agoLike calling the renovators when the house is still burning.
- devoply 7y agoThe embattled Chinese government of Hong Kong. If they wish to rebuild Hong Kong, give Hong Kong autonomy and withdraw the attempts to assimilate it into China. But it seems like China would rather destroy Hong Kong's identity and force it into itself than have any diversity. China is the Borg, you will be assimilated.
- justicezyx 7y ago"resistance is futile"
- RavlaAlvar 7y agoLoL, I can't imagine a more apt description of China. Imagine if Japan had successfully invaded China, few hundred year later, China surely will cry "Japan island was part of China since the beginning of time".
- justaman 7y agoI've never particularly wanted to travel to China. After seeing what the CCP has done, I have no desire to ever travel to China. However, after seeing the way the Hong Kong citizens behaved and placed such a high value on freedom of speech I truly hope to visit someday. Only on the condition that HK gets full autonomy. Hows that for PR
- crimsonalucard 7y agoChina is one of the greatest phenomenons of human history. Never has a country build itself into a super power in so little time. To have such a one sided view of the world and not visit China is not a detriment to China, but to yourself. That being said. There is no doubt that Freedom of speech is important... but the truth is more complicated than that. China does not have freedom of speech but in a way neither does the US. We have freedoms in the United States... but did edward snowden have freedom? Additionally in all of Asia, it's a well known fact that the protests were highly likely to be ignited by the CIA. How come you don't see fair and balanced reports of this policy in the United States? Most people here in the US aren't even discussing this possibility. Make no mistake, the united states isn't the land of the free... It's just another regime.... A regime that like China has remarkable economic success, culture and important values that is worth visiting and living in despite its glaring flaws. I urge you to visit China and not have such a one sided view of the country not because I want to promote China to be better. But because I want to promote you and the people of the united states to be better. We are better when we work together. Also please note that China does not need you to visit the country. China's manufacturing prowess is so high that even a trade war can't stop it from being the center of the manufacturing world. The technology is so great that the US simply does not have the infrastructure to replicate it. Like it or not, even if you don't visit China, you still have to use the products that China made for you because you as a country do not have the technical ability to manufacture the same products. Just like how the slaughter of millions of people by the nuclear bomb dropped on hiroshima by the united states does not define the united states as a country, neither do the protests of hong kong define China.
- potatofarmer45 7y agoThis is an example of attempting to treat the symptom not the disease. Rather than fix the underlying socio-economic issues such as income inequality, lack of affordable housing, and the lack of social mobility and opportunities- the instinct is to hire PR to pretend it is better. To be fair, that's what happens on the mainland where they don't need PR companies, they just censor everything everything that doesn't enthusiastically support their view.
- munk-a 7y agoI am sure some people protesting are advocating for socio-economic fixes but mostly the protests seem to be concerned more with "I'd rather not be kidnapped in the middle of the night and sent to a labour camp."
- idlewords 7y agoThe protests are more about indiscriminate police violence and demanding the right to vote.
- at-fates-hands 7y agoIt actually started as opposition to an extradition bill that has since been shelved for now (for obvious reasons) and then transitioned to a call for full blown democracy and accountability of the police forces - who are now under the control of the Chinese government. I think (rightly so) they are more afraid of the Chinese government coming in and strong arming their population like they do to their own population. The treatment of dissidents and the possibility of having to deal with the Chinese government in any fashion is something that makes the entire population nervous.
- phowat 7y agoI guess PR firms understand enough about PR to know taking this job would be awful PR for themselves.
- pcurve 7y agoBingo... They certainly how to know how to spin their reason
- hidiegomariani 7y agopathetic
- metaphorical 7y agoLook like spreading fake news through China Daily via Twitter Ads is not even enough for them.
- irate314rate 7y agoSaudi Arabia also makes use of PR firms to improve their image. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/spoof-ad-campaign-mocks-saudi-crown-prince-reform-claims https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/spoof-ad-campaign-mocks-s... https://www.politico.eu/article/saudi-arabia-the-pr-client-no-one-wants-to-talk-about/ https://www.politico.eu/article/saudi-arabia-the-pr-client-n...
- onemoresoop 7y agoCan a PR company manage to fix Saudi Arabia's image after the Jamal Khashoggi murder? But, hey, why not take the money
- spamizbad 7y agoTechnically you only need to repair their image with the powerful. I don't think there are any single-issue Saudi Arabia voters out there. We're already seeing the effects of this. I saw on the news recently where someone described the recent Saudi Oil attacks as "Saudi Arabia's 9/11" -- an ironic statement, given the fact that more Saudi nationals died hijacking the planes on 9/11 (15 of the 19) than in this attack (0)
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y agoMost people should be concerned about the environmental and economic impact of the attacks.
- onemoresoop 7y agoThis type of thinking should be applied at all times not only when it affects our bottom line. How about the attacks and massacres that SA is doing to the Yemenis? How about US attacking Iraq? Etc.. Yes we should always be concerned!
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y agoIran backs a proxy terrorist group in Yemen. Iran sparked the Iran-Iraq War.
- flywithdolp 7y agoFails? Changing people image about a country can take years If they measure success by only few months, they wont see any change
- short_sells_poo 7y agoPerhaps one way to read it is that none of the PR firms that HK approached wanted them as a client in the current situation. That's pretty interesting if it were the case.
- fasthandle 7y agoThat is exactly the case.
- toby- 7y agoI think you might've misunderstood. Hong Kong failed to hire any PR firms; they approached a number of firms, and they all declined (actually, two simply didn't respond at all).
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoIs it weird that we know about this because the leader of Hong Kong announced it in a press conference? Surely it can only make them look worse in the international eye. Is this a subtle act of rebellion, or is she that clueless? Or is it expected to play better with the mainland, somehow?
- dmurray 7y agoMaybe she didn't have anyone competent to advise her this would make Hong Kong look bad?
- bsznjyewgd 7y agoIt was leaked first from when she had a closed session with some business leaders.
- alkonaut 7y agoWhat will happen as the end of the “transition” nears? Few in HK I assume will accept that the HK system is replaced with Chinese eceonomics and politics. By the time this question arises, everything indicates China will already be an Orwellian dystopia. HK doesn’t have natural resources. Its citizens and businesses can leave. So what China really stand to gain from its claims on HK?
- Leary 7y agoChina wants to assert its national sovereignty over HK. By controlling Hong Kong the communist government gains legitimacy in the eyes of the Chinese people. There's quite nothing that binds together a people than a city of young people that doesn't want to be Chinese.
- C1sc0cat 7y agoWhere would HK citizens go sadly the UK threw them under a bus years ago.
- rvooda 7y agoCambridge Analytica: Whistles and rolls eyes
- billars 7y agois it known what those firms were?
- aurizon 7y agoThey need to pick up this turd by the clean end...
- mrtweetyhack 7y agoChina doesn't need more PR, they need more guillotines
- smadurange 7y agoSo, this kind of articles are news (wholesome truth) and has nothing to do with PR and tainting the image of HK govt. LOL.
- jxramos 7y agoRebuild the image from what to what?
- no_opinions 7y agoHK is definitely a spring board to democratizing China. China can follow a model like Taiwan (ROC) and be very happy. People in Taiwan have democracy, social services, and feel great pride in their country. China has choices it can make, it's the people's choice. If it really wants to be great, it will entrust the power in its people by giving them human rights like EU and liberties like USA. It will respect intellectual property laws and have an open internet. It will pay reparations to the people of Xinjiang and Tibet and give them their sovereignty. Hong Kong is proof the system works, but the system can't work when they let property flippers from the mainland drive up real estate prices. The people of HK are suffering greatly because of the greedy few. The jist of the HK situation is this: China is trying to subvert the democracy in HK by taking the voting slots so they're all bought out to Beijing. But HK is an international city.
- exabrial 7y agoStep 1: Don't associate yourself with a country that brutally oppresses basic humans rights. (not saying my country is an angel)
- chillacy 7y ago> (not saying my country is an angel) Then we both know how difficult it can be :( Based on slicing social opinion polls by age though, one could say that progress advances one funeral at a time.
- tempest345 7y agoOr one could say that oppression advances by one funeral at a time. It is not like there haven't been examples of societies changing towards more totalitarian and oppressive over time. I find it shocking how common this line of tough is now. Maybe the world dreamed about by people who actively celebrate the deaths of those who don't agree with them, is not such an utopia as we like to believe.
- chillacy 7y agoSure. People have different opinions of things, to some extent social change is zero-sum. I've just given my opinions.
- rqs 7y agoHong Kong gov pisses their own citizen off: Cross - Say "Sorry, we will not do it again and we will fix our wrong doings"; ️Check - Hire PR firm spreading bad propaganda to "address negative perceptions in key markets overseas to maintain confidence in Hong Kong" Why???? It's the best time to show that Hong Kong is a democratic & lawful place by resolve the issue peacefully and make their people happy. It's a opportunity for the government if they play this right, don't blow it up!